Sunday 'Church' tradition vs. small groups

[Jethro Bodine]

I want to get connected with a small group of believers. You know, a cell group or life group that some churches have outside of their main meetings.

Should a small group be church for a person?

Should a small group replace the tradition of Sunday morning church? Can it?

 

[Timf]

Should a small group be church for a person?

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[for_his_glory]

Act 12:12 And when he had considered the thing, he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together praying.

Mark's mother had a large house in Jerusalem where Peter and others gathered together to pray. Many in the NT met at each others houses in secret to hide from Roman persecution of the Christians.

I like the intimacy of a small group rather than a large Church as each one has a chance to share and ask questions as the Holy Spirit guides them through the scriptures. Anywhere two or more are gathered in the name of Jesus is Gods true Church as we lift up and edify the union of the body of Christ.

 

[Tina]

There's no Biblical law that church must only gather in big groups on Sunday mornings. Being blessed in the edification of the Word of God, fellowship and praying with other born-again believers, and breaking bread and celebrating Holy Communion as a group is what makes a true church.

 

[Mike]

We're told not to stop gathering with believers, as some had already started to do in Paul's day. We're told iron sharpens iron. We're told to encourage one another. We're not told how large our gatherings should be. I believe if someone's faith is encouraged, and he is better able to encourage, by a small group, he should do that. And if someone finds large congregations more effective, he should do that.

Personally, my concern with limiting myself to a small group is that there is less iron sharpening iron. IMO, churches can get too large to truly minister to its members, but those that are too small are more easily taken off track by one person. I do both.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I like the intimacy of a small group rather than a large Church as each one has a chance to share and ask questions as the Holy Spirit guides them through the scriptures.

Just as Paul said must happen when we meet together:

"When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation... All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church." (1 Cor. 14:26 NIV1984)

But how can this even begin to happen in the tradition of our Sunday morning church meetings?

Anywhere two or more are gathered in the name of Jesus is Gods true Church as we lift up and edify the union of the body of Christ.

'Edify' means to build up if I'm not mistaken.

"...the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work." (Eph. 4:16 NIV1984)

But how can this possibly happen in a traditional Sunday morning service where no one speaks except a few select people and there is no sharing or conversation or interaction allowed with the whole body of Christ that Paul says must be done for the strengthening of the church?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There's no Biblical law that church must only gather in big groups on Sunday mornings.

...and may I add, quiet and reverential. At least not in the NT.

And what's interesting is the NT speaks of exactly the opposite.

Being blessed in the edification of the Word of God, fellowship and praying with other born-again believers, and breaking bread and celebrating Holy Communion as a group is what makes a true church.

I'm convinced of it. I feel more like I've 'gone to church' after being in a meeting like this than I do after sitting through a traditional Sunday morning service where none of this happens save for the speech by the pastor and maybe a rigid, often awkward, ceremonial communion.

How do we get back to what God intended for the meeting of the saints? How do make people see they've been serving and honoring and protecting a man made idol of sorts in the way we've been 'going to church' and which does not serve the purpose Paul said it must?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We're told not to stop gathering with believers, as some had already started to do in Paul's day. We're told iron sharpens iron. We're told to encourage one another. We're not told how large our gatherings should be. I believe if someone's faith is encouraged, and he is better able to encourage, by a small group, he should do that. And if someone finds large congregations more effective, he should do that.

I honestly challenge the idea that a traditional Sunday morning church service does what you think it does. How do these things happen effectively, if at all, when nobody talks except the pastor and maybe some elders?

Personally, my concern with limiting myself to a small group is that there is less iron sharpening iron.

I submit to you, then, that you have not been to a true Biblical meeting of the saints. It is true that, like so many things in the church, things gravitate to the extremes. The way people think about small groups are no exception. They should operate within a network of godly leaders and stay in control and actually seek to do that which it's supposed to do. Like so many things, the real truth about how we are to meet together is somewhere in the middle of the extremes we see put into practice.

IMO, churches can get too large to truly minister to its members, but those that are too small are more easily taken off track by one person. I do both.

And what a waste of time and effectiveness that often proves to be. You lose the momentum of a somewhat successful (but limited) small meeting and devote time and energy to a church tradition that ultimately does not serve the purposes of God. Tina hit it real close. She spoke of doing all the things saints do when they meet together--in one meeting. I think the only thing she didn't mention was praise and worship.

I've seen people forgo a regular Bible study they know is rich with fellowship and prayer and sharing and edification in favor of the Sunday traditional meeting when the two conflict, not knowing God's purpose and will for them was actually being fulfilled in the part they were setting aside in favor of the other. This tradition goes deep. And it's zealously guarded and defended...even though it has little Biblical support and accomplishes little of what God said must happen in a meeting of the saints.

 

[Adullam]

I want to get connected with a small group of believers. You know, a cell group or life group that some churches have outside of their main meetings.

Should a small group be church for a person?

Should a small group replace the tradition of Sunday morning church? Can it?

It was the Sunday morning thing that replaced the fellowship of believers in the first place.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It was the Sunday morning thing that replaced the fellowship of believers in the first place.

I don't know that Sabbath congregations have adhered any better to the NT counsel on how to meet as the people of God than the rest of us.

 

[Nick]

We're told not to stop gathering with believers, as some had already started to do in Paul's day. We're told iron sharpens iron. We're told to encourage one another. We're not told how large our gatherings should be. I believe if someone's faith is encouraged, and he is better able to encourage, by a small group, he should do that. And if someone finds large congregations more effective, he should do that.

Personally, my concern with limiting myself to a small group is that there is less iron sharpening iron. IMO, churches can get too large to truly minister to its members, but those that are too small are more easily taken off track by one person. I do both.

I agree. I think both have an important place and I would strongly encourage all brothers and sisters to attend both.

 

[Damascus]

I believe both are pretty necessary in our Christian walk. Sunday morning church to hear the word, and gathering amongst ourselves for edification and accountability.

 

[Tina]

I don't know that Sabbath congregations have adhered any better to the NT counsel on how to meet as the people of God than the rest of us.

I don't think Sabbath congregations meet on Sundays. I think it's Saturdays..


.... not that it matters anyway, since most adhere to man-made Ellen G White's teachings rather than the Word of God.

 

[jasoncran]

if the early church did it like the jews that they were(the apostles and converted jews) then it would be from friday at sundown to saturday at sundown.

the sundown that is used in jerusalem, btw

 

[Tina]

Tina hit it real close. She spoke of doing all the things saints do when they meet together--in one meeting. I think the only thing she didn't mention was praise and worship.

Yeah, I forgot to mention praise and worship. That's essential too...


May I also add that I worship in a megachurch on weekends - a congregation of 5000. But where I live, 5000 isn't really a megachurch. It's a small church compared to the 10 - 30,000 members of other churches where I live.

Additionally I also host a small church in my home on a weekday where we praise and worship God, share testimonies, study the bible, pray, fellowship and celebrate Holy communion together.


I would say I am tremendously blessed by both the big and small churches that I am actively involved in. They serve similar yet different purposes. My home church usually discusses what pastor had preached at the weekend service. The megachurch is also a place where the entire congregation gathers once a month to pray for nations and other bigger and more global issues, whilst the home church is more for individual needs and ministry.

 

[Mike]

I honestly challenge the idea that a traditional Sunday morning church service does what you think it does. How do these things happen effectively, if at all, when nobody talks except the pastor and maybe some elders?

I submit to you, then, that you have not been to a true Biblical meeting of the saints. It is true that, like so many things in the church, things gravitate to the extremes. The way people think about small groups are no exception. They should operate within a network of godly leaders and stay in control and actually seek to do that which it's supposed to do. Like so many things, the real truth about how we are to meet together is somewhere in the middle of the extremes we see put into practice.

And what a waste of time and effectiveness that often proves to be. You lose the momentum of a somewhat successful (but limited) small meeting and devote time and energy to a church tradition that ultimately does not serve the purposes of God. Tina hit it real close. She spoke of doing all the things saints do when they meet together--in one meeting. I think the only thing she didn't mention was praise and worship.

I've seen people forgo a regular Bible study they know is rich with fellowship and prayer and sharing and edification in favor of the Sunday traditional meeting when the two conflict, not knowing God's purpose and will for them was actually being fulfilled in the part they were setting aside in favor of the other. This tradition goes deep. And it's zealously guarded and defended...even though it has little Biblical support and accomplishes little of what God said must happen in a meeting of the saints.

It seems to me you are painting with a broad brush when you express your opinion here. I tried to take care to say both large churches and small home churches have their potential shortcomings. I'd further say that larger churches will probably offer more resources than smaller ones, thereby offer more in the way of small groups.

I've never been to a mega-church, let alone be a member of one. My impression is that there is no way they could minister to that many believers, but I've heard consistently that they do. My church worships about 1300 people a weekend. It's very busy and energized from the moment you step in the building, then off to worship and over to a small bible study in the basement. If it's done well, larger churches can be a blessing, as can a small group, especially if it's tied in with a network as you say.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It seems to me you are painting with a broad brush when you express your opinion here. I tried to take care to say both large churches and small home churches have their potential shortcomings. I'd further say that larger churches will probably offer more resources than smaller ones, thereby offer more in the way of small groups.

I think you've missed my point.

What is it in a large group that can't be done in a small group? I'm not asking what is, or isn't being done that could be done. I'm asking what part of God's purpose happens in a large gathering that can't be fulfilled in a smaller group?

I've never been to a mega-church, let alone be a member of one. My impression is that there is no way they could minister to that many believers, but I've heard consistently that they do.

In the traditional Sunday morning worship service part of a mega-church, how are the goals and purposes outlined in the NT fulfilled? I see how they can begin to be met if you also add in other meetings outside of the main Sunday morning service.

My church worships about 1300 people a weekend. It's very busy and energized from the moment you step in the building, then off to worship and over to a small bible study in the basement. If it's done well, larger churches can be a blessing, as can a small group, especially if it's tied in with a network as you say.

And I pointed out this is a very inefficient, less effective, and time consuming way to do what we could do if we met in one, maybe two, small group meetings a week where gifted leadership could accomplish the Biblical goals and purposes for meeting together that the Sunday morning service tradition doesn't fulfill. It doesn't fulfill it because our tradition keeps everybody attending from doing what must be done to meet those Biblical goals.

Why cherish and maintain a tradition that is easily shown to actually hinder the Biblical goals and purposes that must be fulfilled when the saints meet together?

Just asking...

 

[Nick]

I think you've missed my point.

What is it in a large group that can't be done in a small group? I'm not asking what is, or isn't being done that could be done. I'm asking what part of God's purpose happens in a large gathering that can't be fulfilled in a smaller group?





In the traditional Sunday morning worship service part of a mega-church, how are the goals and purposes outlined in the NT fulfilled? I see how they can begin to be met if you also add in other meetings outside of the main Sunday morning service.




And I pointed out this is a very inefficient, less effective, and time consuming way to do what we could do if we met in one, maybe two, small group meetings a week where gifted leadership could accomplish the Biblical goals and purposes for meeting together that the Sunday morning service tradition doesn't fulfill. It doesn't fulfill it because our tradition keeps everybody attending from doing what must be done to meet those Biblical goals.

Why cherish and maintain a tradition that is easily shown to actually hinder the Biblical goals and purposes that must be fulfilled when the saints meet together?

Just asking...

What are these goals?

 

[Adullam]

What are these goals?

That all would function in their spiritual gifts. That all would be discipled into a greater attainment of Christ.

We have two ministries on sunday mornings...the big mouth and the big ear.

But monologuing to an assembly is meant for unbelievers. Christian teaching is interactive.

So the traditional approach of professional clergy and the masses is very Catholic in it's spirit. It assumes that the pew warmers can never know anything...they are given the same lessons over and over again with no distinction given between an atheist and a disciple. It is the principle of the crowd. But discipleship it something completely different. We are to be EMPOWERED to change the world....and this begins with spiritual intimacy with Christ and each other.

It is not a coincidence that we have no Peters and Pauls anymore. It is by design. Men wish to control the comings and goings of other men.

Anything but let the Spirit of Christ take over.


That is the result of the evidence for those who are not brainwashed to follow a man-controlled institution.

 

[Free]

This should never be considered either/or. Churches and small groups are both absolutely necessary and have their functions.