Tasted Death for every Man !

[rogerg]

Let me ask you a question. How do you know the Bible you're reading is the Bible God inspired? There were many epistles written early on. How do you know you're reading the corrects ones?

By what it reveals to us, by what it claims about itself. What's missing in it?

 

[Butch5]

By what it reveals to us, by what it claims about itself. What's missing in it?

The Koran makes many of the same claims

 

[brightfame52]

No, it's not. That He only died for certain people is what is false. It's demonstrably false.

Yes it is. Jesus said He died specifically for His Sheep Jn 10:11,15

 

[brightfame52]

According to you, but not according to the Bible.

John 3:16-18 makes this perfectly clear...

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

What is it about "whoever" don't you understand?

According to the scripture. Who did Jesus specifically say He tasted death for here Jn 10:11,15 ?

 

[Butch5]

Yes it is. Jesus said He died specifically for His Sheep Jn 10:11,15

He didn't say He only died for His sheep. I could say I went to the store for John. That doesn't mean I didn't also go to the store for Joe. That's why taking Scripture out of context leads to error. If that's your argument then only those Jews would be saved. In context Jesus said He had only come to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So, in context, the sheep He was speaking of, were Israelites. If they're the only ones He died for, as you say, then no Gentiles can be saved. So, you see, when we look at the Scriptures, IN CONTEXT, your argument falls apart.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matt. 15:23-24 KJV)

However, John tells us that Jesus came so that all men could be saved.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (John 1:6-9 KJV)

Here John tells us that Christ enlightens every person coming into the world that they might be saved. He uses the singular, man, indicating every single man or person. There's no way around this. It proves grammatically that all can be saved. In this passage "all" grammatically is every single person.

 

[jaybo]

Yes it is. Jesus said He died specifically for His Sheep Jn 10:11,15

Isn't it convenient that you don't mention John 10:16, " I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd."

 

[brightfame52]

He didn't say He only died for His sheep. I could say I went to the store for John. That doesn't mean I didn't also go to the store for Joe. That's why taking Scripture out of context leads to error. If that's your argument then only those Jews would be saved. In context Jesus said He had only come to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So, in context, the sheep He was speaking of, were Israelites. If they're the only ones He died for, as you say, then no Gentiles can be saved. So, you see, when we look at the Scriptures, IN CONTEXT, your argument falls apart.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matt. 15:23-24 KJV)

However, John tells us that Jesus came so that all men could be saved.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (John 1:6-9 KJV)

Here John tells us that Christ enlightens every person coming into the world that they might be saved. He uses the singular, man, indicating every single man or person. There's no way around this. It proves grammatically that all can be saved. In this passage "all" grammatically is every single person.

Who did He specifically died for?

 

[jaybo]

Who did He specifically died for?

There is no "specifically". Jesus died for all humanity. Whoever accepts that sacrifice is saved.

 

[brightfame52]

Isn't it convenient that you don't mention John 10:16, " I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd."

So who did Christ say specifically He died for in Jn 10:11, 16?

 

[brightfame52]

There is no "specifically". Jesus died for all humanity. Whoever accepts that sacrifice is saved.

So you deny He was specific in Jn 10:11,15 in declaring who He lays down His life for?

 

[rogerg]

Here John tells us that Christ enlightens every person coming into the world that they might be saved. He uses the singular, man, indicating every single man or person. There's no way around this. It proves grammatically that all can be saved. In this passage "all" grammatically is every single person.

[Jhn 6:36, 39-40 KJV]
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. ...
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[Mar 4:12 KJV]
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them.
[Luk 8:10 KJV]
10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

 

[jaybo]

So you deny He was specific in Jn 10:11,15 in declaring who He lays down His life for?

Why do you persist in this? Taking two separate verses out of context to prove erroneous doctrine is eisegesis of the first order. I will post this one last time, then won't discuss your fallacy any longer.

“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd." John 10:14-16

 

[Butch5]

[Jhn 6:36, 39-40 KJV]
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. ...
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[Mar 4:12 KJV]
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them.
[Luk 8:10 KJV]
10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Look at those passages in context. I used to be Reformed. I learned the arguments. I also saw that they are all based on Scripture taken out of context.

 

[brightfame52]

Why do you persist in this? Taking two separate verses out of context to prove erroneous doctrine is eisegesis of the first order. I will post this one last time, then won't discuss your fallacy any longer.

“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd." John 10:14-16

So you dodge the question, that figures.

 

[rogerg]

Look at those passages in context. I used to be Reformed. I learned the arguments. I also saw that they are all based on Scripture taken out of context.

Taken out of context how? Don't see it
Except for possibly the following:
[Jhn 6:28-29 KJV]
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[jaybo]

So you dodge the question, that figures.

Aside from your personal insult, what question are you referring to? If you are unable to understand exactly what Scripture says that is not my problem. It's yours.

 

[Butch5]

Taken out of context how? Don't see it
Except for possibly the following:
[Jhn 6:28-29 KJV]
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Hi Roger,

Jesus' ministry was to Israel. He specifically said He had only come to Israel. Therefore everything He said must be understood in that context. There have been several quotes from John 6 in this thread. However, the context of John 6 is Israel. Tell me, are there passages of Scripture where Paul tells his readers that they are sheep? Do the other apostles tell their hearers that they need to become Jesus' sheep?

 

[jaybo]

Look at those passages in context. I used to be Reformed. I learned the arguments. I also saw that they are all based on Scripture taken out of context.

You are writing about Scripture taken out of context? Really? You are a master of choosing just those verses you want to prove false doctrine.

 

[jaybo]

Hi Roger,

Jesus' ministry was to Israel. He specifically said He had only come to Israel. Therefore everything He said must be understood in that context. There have been several quotes from John 6 in this thread. However, the context of John 6 is Israel. Tell me, are there passages of Scripture where Paul tells his readers that they are sheep? Do the other apostles tell their hearers that they need to become Jesus' sheep?

Why don't you take a break and read your Bible? Try this...

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever [not restricted to Jews] believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world [all people, not just Jews], but to save the world through him. Whoever [not just Jews] believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe [including Jews] stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever [not just Jews] lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God." John 3:16-21\

Should I believe the great apostle, the author of several "books" of the Bible, or you? Do your credentials exceed his?

 

[rogerg]

Jesus' ministry was to Israel. He specifically said He had only come to Israel. Therefore everything He said must be understood in that context. T

Hi Butch5
Whoa! not for Israel only, but for those that He came to save up until until the of time

[Act 13:45-48 KJV]
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.