Tasted Death for every Man !

[brightfame52]

Hello brightfame52,
I thought you had said that I lost you. I was trying to demonstrate that the law of the spirit of life in Christ, will
deny sin from entering into the new earth, Jerusalem, ETC - unless, that is, I misunderstood your point,

I dont see how that verse remotely relates to this concept.

 

[BrotherJames925]

Did you read the OP ? According to it, who is the very man in Heb 2:9 ?

Hello brightfame52.. The Peace of Jesus "The Jewish" Christ. who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father, Son of God and Son of man, The God of Abraham and the Living God in His human nature be with you...YOU SAY::<<<

Psalm 130:8 HE=(YHWH The Holy Spirit a.k.a Eternal Father) HIMSELF=(Not Three) WILL REDEEM ISRAEL FROM ALL THEIR SINS...(NO GENTILES)...Now Read this:<<<

PSALM 73:1 SURELY YHWH IS GOOD "TO ISRAEL" (No Gentiles)....BUT!! "ONLY" TO ALL" WHO HAVE ..."A PURE HEART".. USE YOUR LOGIC!!!!!!!! SO!! FOR HOW MANY DID JESUS "TASTED DEATH"?!!! Brother James....

 

[rogerg]

Roger,

There is no new earth. God told Abraham to look around. All the land that he could see was his inheritance. He didnt see some earth created in the future. It was the land around him.

Morning Butch5,

[Isa 65:17 KJV] 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

[Isa 66:22 KJV] 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

[2Pe 3:13 KJV] 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

[Rev 21:1 KJV] 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

[rogerg]

I dont see how that verse remotely relates to this concept.

Okay no problem, brightfame52

 

[rogerg]

I agree with all you've said. In your previous post you stated that maybe God was "thinking" something.
My point is not to take the verses beyond what they say...
Whatever God wants us to know will be clearly stated - we don't need to wonder what He may have been "thinking".

Hi wondering

Would you mind reposting what you're referring to? I'm not sure where it's located. thx

 

[ezrider]

Gotta disagree with you on this, Butch5 - it is as clear as clear can be that the current heavens, earth (world?), will be gone forever - not coming back.

Yesterday is gone forever and its not coming back, It too has passed way.

 

[Butch5]

Morning Butch5,

[Isa 65:17 KJV] 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

[Isa 66:22 KJV] 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

[2Pe 3:13 KJV] 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

[Rev 21:1 KJV] 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Hi Roger,
I'm aware of those passages. But, our idea of new isn't the same. Our idea of new usually incorporates the idea of a different one. That is not the idea being portrayed in Scripture. Scripture is portraying the idea of renewed. That's why Peter talks about the restoration of all things. All things will he restored to a new condition

 

[rogerg]

wondering, I'm continuing

Earth is to be destroyed and the New Jerusalem will be established to replace this world. Yes, I believe this.
Why would God do this? I mean end this world?
This is a good question and one I haven't thought about.
It would make a good thread.
You can start it or I will.
It would be in THEOLOGY.
(let me know in your reply).

Hmmm have never started/hosted a thread before. Seems like too much responsibility for someone like me,
but I'd bet you'd be good at it

The above is speaking about believers.
But WHEN did Jesus die for us?
WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS, Christ died for us.
Christ died for sinners...not for saved persons.
God loves everyone created...even sinners, enough to send His only begotten Son to die as the final sacrifice.
God wishes that none should perish...but alas, not everyone will accept His love for them.

I think that to understand Romans 5 8 - 10, we first have to go back to Romans 1 and understand who the audience is Paul was addressing. :

[Rom 1:5-8 KJV]
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Those who have become saved first received grace from God unto faith, not the reverse

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

"Christ died for sinners...not for saved persons."

That's what saved(s) them

"God loves everyone created...even sinners, enough to send His only begotten Son to die as the final sacrifice."

Respectfully, I don't think so. Jesus(God) did not pray for the "world", only for those whom the Father gave Him:

[Jhn 17:9 KJV]
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

"God wishes that none should perish...but alas, not everyone will accept His love for them."

[Rom 9:21 KJV]
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

[Rom 9:22-24 KJV]
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Question: if everybody/anybody can be saved by their own choice, then how did the names of those to be saved become written into the Lamb's book of life after Christ' offering but before their birth (for those not yet born)?
[

I know a teacher of Greek and reads the bible in Greek and taught it and he told me to forget about trying to understand it for these purposes. The bible was translated correctly by those that DO understand Greek and we can trust how the Greek was translated. I know that a slant can be given to a verse, but this will only happen to one or two versions of the bible and the rest will have the correct translation. If something is very important, I check different versions.

Respectfully, I believe the whole point of aroist tense is that it is used when the translator cannot determine tense. I don't think that should be ignored because it could have very great affect on the verse's interpretation. At the very lease, we should keep in mind that we know that we don't know

God loves everyone created...even sinners, enough to send His only begotten Son to die as the final sacrifice.
God wishes that none should perish...but alas, not everyone will accept His love for them.

[1Ti 2:4-5 KJV]
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[Psa 115:3 KJV] 3 But our God [is] in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
So, if God wants someone saved, they will be saved.

I'm familiar with 1 Timothy 4 & 5.

Okay, and this won't be easy to explain, but as I posted previously, we have to keep in mind that, among other things, no verse of scripture is of any private interpretation. God uses many symbols in the Bible which are often defined elsewhere in the Bible. To understand the symbol "man" and "beast", we need to look to see how God put's values to them. Often the Bible uses a symbolic of "man", "men", ETC as a representation of Christians, He also uses "beast" or "beasts" ETC as a representation of the unsaved. Please observe:

[1Co 15:32 KJV] 32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
Above, Paul links "men" to Christians, and "beasts" to the the unsaved. We can understand this since "beast" isn't a literal animal as Paul had "fought" them over the issue of whether the dead will rise, the way a Christian would - a spiritual battle, not a physical one.

Further:
[Psa 49:12, 20 KJV]
12 Nevertheless man [being] in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts [that] perish. ...
20 Man [that is] in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts [that] perish.

So, in Tim 4& 5, by the term "men", we can see that God is informing that all whom He has chosen for salvation, will become saved. Otherwise there would be a contradiction with:

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

We are informed that all who are to become saved were chosen before the foundation of the world. Hence, the question I posed to you about the Lamb's book of life - how can names be written into it before some of the people weren't even born, if God didn't choose them first?

 

[rogerg]

I'm aware of those passages. But, our idea of new isn't the same. Our idea of new usually incorporates the idea of a different one. That is not the idea being portrayed in Scripture. Scripture is portraying the idea of renewed. That's why Peter talks about the restoration of all things. All things will he restored to a new condition

The bodies of the dead who went into the holy city after Christ's crucifixion . They already ARE in the new heavens and earth.

Respectfully Butch5, if you're sill unconvinced, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic- thx

[Mat 27:52-53 KJV]
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[brightfame52]

Hello brightfame52.. The Peace of Jesus "The Jewish" Christ. who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father, Son of God and Son of man, The God of Abraham and the Living God in His human nature be with you...YOU SAY::<<<

Psalm 130:8 HE=(YHWH The Holy Spirit a.k.a Eternal Father) HIMSELF=(Not Three) WILL REDEEM ISRAEL FROM ALL THEIR SINS...(NO GENTILES)...Now Read this:<<<

PSALM 73:1 SURELY YHWH IS GOOD "TO ISRAEL" (No Gentiles)....BUT!! "ONLY" TO ALL" WHO HAVE ..."A PURE HEART".. USE YOUR LOGIC!!!!!!!! SO!! FOR HOW MANY DID JESUS "TASTED DEATH"?!!! Brother James....

Spiritual Israel which is comprised of elect jews and gentiles. Thats who Jesus tasted death for.

 

[brightfame52]

Okay no problem, brightfame52

okay

 

[jaybo]

Spiritual Israel which is comprised of elect jews and gentiles. Thats who Jesus tasted death for.

Not so. Jesus tasted death for all humanity. Everyone's sins have been "paid for" by His sacrifice. The tragedy is that many people cannot accept the fact that all sin has been forgiven for all people for all time.

 

[rogerg]

Not so. Jesus tasted death for all humanity. Everyone's sins have been "paid for" by His sacrifice. The tragedy is that many people cannot accept the fact that all sin has been forgiven for all people for all time.

If you don't mind me asking, jaybo if everybody's sins have been paid, then what does their acceptance have to do with it? Isn't not accepting a sin too since we are all commanded to believe? If all sins were paid, wouldn't that one would be paid too? Said another way, how can anyone be guilty of anything (spiritually speaking), once their sins have been paid?

 

[jaybo]

If you don't mind me asking, jaybo if everybody's sins have been paid, then what does their acceptance have to do with it? Isn't not accepting a sin too since we are all commanded to believe? If all sins were paid, wouldn't that one would be paid too? Said another way, how can anyone be guilty of anything (spiritually speaking), once their sins have been paid?

If you have committed a crime and somebody else has taken the punishment for you then you must accept that. If someone doesn't believe that Jesus has paid the penalty for their sin then they will continue to believe they are guilty. That is a real tragedy!

You wrote, "how can anyone be guilty of anything (spiritually speaking), once their sins have been paid?" That is the point! They are not guilty! Even thought they committed the crime(s) they are deemed innocent by God.

If that isn't the case then tell me what sins Jesus hasn't paid for.

 

[rogerg]

If you have committed a crime and somebody else has taken the punishment for you then you must accept that. If someone doesn't believe that Jesus has paid the penalty for their sin then they will continue to believe they are guilty. That is a real tragedy!

When you say "must" accept it, I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean that if you don't "accept" it then you will be punished even though its paid? Even if you don't, hasn't it sill been paid?

 

[Butch5]

The bodies of the dead who went into the holy city after Christ's crucifixion . They already ARE in the new heavens and earth.

Respectfully Butch5, if you're sill unconvinced, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic- thx

[Mat 27:52-53 KJV]
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Roger, those people are dead. They died. The holy city they went into was Jerusalem.

And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Notice they appeared to many.

 

[jaybo]

When you say "must" accept it, I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean that if you don't "accept" it then you will be punished even though its paid? Even if you don't, hasn't it sill been paid?

Yes, that is what I mean.

Romans 3:22-24, "This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

 

[rogerg]

Roger, those people are dead. They died. The holy city they went into was Jerusalem.

And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Notice they appeared to many.

Butch5
Think it was the heavenly holy city - heavenly Jerusalem

The earthly Jerusalem had its title as the holy city removed by God, instead, the heavenly Jerusalem became the new holy city.-- and there can't be two holy cities

[Rev 3:12 KJV]
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.

[Heb 12:22 KJV] 22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

While yet being alive physically , they, in the spiritual realm, were brought unto the holy city, the heavenly Jerusalem.

Rev 21:2
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

[Butch5]

Butch5
Think it was the heavenly holy city - heavenly Jerusalem

The earthly Jerusalem had its title as the holy city removed by God, instead, the heavenly Jerusalem became the new holy city.-- and there can't be two holy cities

[Rev 3:12 KJV]
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.

[Heb 12:22 KJV] 22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

While yet being alive physically , they, in the spiritual realm, were brought unto the holy city, the heavenly Jerusalem.

Rev 21:2
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

You're assuming they're different rather than the same. What in Scripture would indicate that to you?

 

[rogerg]

Yes, that is what I mean.

Hi jaybo

The way I understand your reply is that people can be justified by Christ(have had their sins paid) and yet not be saved? Is that your point?