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Tasted Death for every Man !

rogerg said:
No, I'm not saying that. I used that to illustrate the flaw in your doctrine that salvation is dependent upon someone believing. I was saying that according to your belief that to become saved someone must first believe even after Christ died. My belief is that God chose before the foundation of the world only (and all) those who would be saved and placed those names into His will. That means everyone who will be saved was already in the will at time of the death of Christ. You however, believe salvation it is still possible for those NOT in the will through their belief. Were that true, (which it isn't), per your logic (not mine), no one after Christ's death could be saved because the will was closed at His death and new names could not be added to it. Understand?
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Wills are opened upon the testators death,,,not closed.

They become valid.

Do you know what that Will stated?
Could you state it?

P.S.
Of course I'm speaking of the Will that became valid at Christ's death...known as the New Covenant or New Testament.
 
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rogerg said:
When Christ died no further heirs could be added to God's will,
Click to expand...

No one is an heir, a joint with Christ without becoming sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:26

No one becomes a son of God except by hearing and believing the message of Christ: the gospel of your salvation.

And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?





JLB
 
rogerg said:
Calvin? How did he enter into this discussion? I can see this is becoming unfruitful at this point so not much use in continuing any further.
Click to expand...
It's because Calvin taught Election by predestination which you are trying to teach in this thread which comes against scripture. What you are teaching is unfruitful as it comes against scripture. You are not the first nor the last that will try to teach these false doctrines.
 
This thread has run its course.

The teaching that a person is saved without hearing and believing the message of Christ, the Gospel of our salvation is not a biblical doctrine and will not be allowed to be promoted here at this Forum Community.




JLB
 
rogerg said:
Paul is speaking in Romans to those already saved. They were joint heirs with Christ because their names were already in God's will. That their names were in the will was why they had become saved.
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No one was saved prior to Christ death and resurrection until the day of Pentecost where Jesus told the disciples to wait for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit before they were sent out into the world to preach the Gospel. Faith comes by hearing when we first believed in Christ.

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

We do not become joint heirs with Christ until we first believe and are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

We have to believe first as faith comes by hearing the gospel preached to us. If we do not believe the gospel that was preached to us then that means we do not believe, have no faith and will never be joint heirs with Christ.

God and Jesus are very much alive so what is this will you speak of.
 
Heb 2:10 makes it clear who the everyone or every man is in Heb 2:9 for whom Christ tasted death for. Its for every son that He suffered and died for, constituting Him the Captain of their Salvation which brings them to Glory:

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Notice it specifies their Salvation ! So He tasted death or suffered for their Salvation. Also this taste of death for them ensures their being brought to Glory.
 
brightfame52 said:
Heb 2:10 makes it clear who the everyone or every man is in Heb 2:9 for whom Christ tasted death for. Its for every son that He suffered and died for, constituting Him the Captain of their Salvation which brings them to Glory:

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Notice it specifies their Salvation ! So He tasted death or suffered for their Salvation. Also this taste of death for them ensures their being brought to Glory.
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There is only one group of people who will receive eternal salvation.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


Let’s say we just decide that because so and so has done us wrong, that we have decided to hate him. We have no longer chosen to obey the Lord’s command to love, and forgive.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


No murderer has eternal life remaining in him.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


“I know Him” means I have eternal life.


Those who say I have eternal life, but don’t obey Him, are liars and the truth is not in him.


Obeying Him is how we love; is the scriptural definition of love.


If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


His commandments are not burdensome.



JLB
 
for_his_glory said:
We have to believe first as faith comes by hearing the gospel preached to us. If we do not believe the gospel that was preached to us then that means we do not believe, have no faith and will never be joint heirs with Christ.
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for_his_glory said:
No one was saved prior to Christ death and resurrection until the day of Pentecost where Jesus told the disciples to wait for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit before they were sent out into the world to preach the Gospel. Faith comes by hearing when we first believed in Christ.
Click to expand...

I don't recall the details of our original discussion and I'm not going to retrace it through all of the posts now.
However, from what I can determine from the above, I had referenced Romans, which occurred after Acts timewise, didn't it? So, I'm not sure now of what your point is?
Pentecost represented the beginning of the latter rain - the beginning of the timeframe when the bulk of people would start to be saved. Christ's statement that "it is finished" on the cross
tells us that, at that point, all required for salvation was completed. If it was finished, well, it was finished. It was then the Holy Spirit began to indwell the elect, although He had also been with people before then.

[Jhn 19:30 KJV] 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Anyway, our belief comes as a fruit of the Spirit as a result of being born-again. So, faith is a byproduct and
a gift from God, not a cause.

[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[1Pe 1:5 KJV]
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[1Pe 1:20-21 KJV]
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

To be an "heir" one has to be the beneficiary of a will and testament. God did not use words loosely in the bible. It was by God's will and testament, that His beneficiaries were established, and they are those who are to become saved/born again. As with any will and testament, once the testator is dead, it cannot be changed (including its beneficiaries) - it is eternal. Their inheritance is God Himself.

[Heb 9:15-18 KJV]
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first [testament] was dedicated without blood.

[Gal 4:7 KJV]
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
 
Edward said:
It does indeed. It also means a bit more than that.
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Joined to Him being one spirit with Him as a man is joined to his wife in intimacy.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17

So if we decide to violate our commitment to Him and begin have "intercourse" with the world again, we have become unfaithful... and have "made ourselves" an enemy of God.


Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4


JLB
 
JLB said:
There is only one group of people who will receive eternal salvation.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


Let’s say we just decide that because so and so has done us wrong, that we have decided to hate him. We have no longer chosen to obey the Lord’s command to love, and forgive.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


No murderer has eternal life remaining in him.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


“I know Him” means I have eternal life.


Those who say I have eternal life, but don’t obey Him, are liars and the truth is not in him.


Obeying Him is how we love; is the scriptural definition of love.


If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


His commandments are not burdensome.



JLB
Click to expand...
Them Christ tasted death for, it brings them to Glory, thats full Salvation to include Glorification.

Col 3:4
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Now we know all without exception are going to Glory, and those who do, have only the death of Christ for them to thank !
 
JLB said:
Joined to Him being one spirit with Him as a man is joined to his wife in intimacy.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17

So if we decide to violate our commitment to Him and begin have "intercourse" with the world again, we have become unfaithful... and have "made ourselves" an enemy of God.


Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4


JLB
Click to expand...
You infer and assume things that are unbiblical. James 4:4 pertains to the unsaved, not the saved.

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
 
rogerg

To be an "heir" one has to be the beneficiary of a will and testament. God did not use words loosely in the bible. It was by God's will and testament, that His beneficiaries were established, and they are those who are to become saved/born again. As with any will and testament, once the testator is dead, it cannot be changed (including its beneficiaries) - it is eternal. Their inheritance is God Himself.
Click to expand...

Correct, and one is an heir properly before they are born, God predetermines the heir, for instance, Isaac was predetermined heir before he was even physically born Gen 15:4

And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

Gen 21:10

Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

And believers in Christ are heirs before they are born, Paul intimates that here Gal 4:28
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. Children of promise as heirs.

So the death of Christ was for the heirs, He tasted death for everyone of them.

In fact Angels had already been assigned them before they are born Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

The ASV reads

Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to do service for the sake of them that shall inherit salvation?

All the heirs in time, will be given as part of their heirship Faith in Christ !
 
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rogerg said:
You infer and assume things that are unbiblical. James 4:4 pertains to the unsaved, not the saved
Click to expand...

Adultress indicates marriage.

IOW's people who have His Spirit; are joined to His Spirit.

That is who James is referring to!


Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?
James 4:4-5

Denial won't help you, now or on the Day of Judgement.





JLB
 
rogerg said:
You infer and assume things that are unbiblical. James 4:4 pertains to the unsaved, not the saved.

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Click to expand...
James 4:4 pertains to anyone who engages in adultery, saved or unsaved.
Anyone who wishes to follow the world instead of God.

1 Peter 1:5
Through our faith, God is protecting us for an inheritance that is incorruptible and this salvation will be revealed on the last day.
Our salvation will be secured on the last day.
 
rogerg said:
I don't recall the details of our original discussion and I'm not going to retrace it through all of the posts now.
However, from what I can determine from the above, I had referenced Romans, which occurred after Acts timewise, didn't it? So, I'm not sure now of what your point is?
Pentecost represented the beginning of the latter rain - the beginning of the timeframe when the bulk of people would start to be saved. Christ's statement that "it is finished" on the cross
tells us that, at that point, all required for salvation was completed. If it was finished, well, it was finished. It was then the Holy Spirit began to indwell the elect, although He had also been with people before then.

[Jhn 19:30 KJV] 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Anyway, our belief comes as a fruit of the Spirit as a result of being born-again. So, faith is a byproduct and
a gift from God, not a cause.

[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[1Pe 1:5 KJV]
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[1Pe 1:20-21 KJV]
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

To be an "heir" one has to be the beneficiary of a will and testament. God did not use words loosely in the bible. It was by God's will and testament, that His beneficiaries were established, and they are those who are to become saved/born again. As with any will and testament, once the testator is dead, it cannot be changed (including its beneficiaries) - it is eternal. Their inheritance is God Himself.

[Heb 9:15-18 KJV]
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first [testament] was dedicated without blood.

[Gal 4:7 KJV]
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Click to expand...
If you think about it, it has always been by God's grace through faith and obedience to His commands in the OT as well as by God's grace through faith in Him through the same Deity (Jesus) that has always been God's plan of salvation before the foundation of the world Ephesians 2:1-10; 1Peter 1:13-25, Jesus is the fulfilment of the righteousness of the law being the final perfect blood sacrifice for everyone, but not everyone will come to Him by the choices they make.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

The end can mean two things. One being our end here on earth through physical death and the other being the end when Christ returns that we endure whatever the principalities of this world will try and bring against us in order to steal our faith. Many only give lip service to the Lord, but yet deny the power thereof as these types will not endure as they never walked in faith and were still worldly, 2Timothy 3:1-9

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

We are not saved yet as we have not yet endured all those things that will try and come against us in order to try and steal our faith. Those who are truly Christ own and being baptized in the Holy Spirit have the seal of promise of their inheritance and will then be saved from the rudiments of this world when Christ returns, Colossians 2:6-15.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

IMO, John 3:16-17 is the definitive of Jesus tasted death for everyone, but again not everyone will confess Him even after hearing the word preached to them.
 
JLB said:
Adultress indicates marriage.
Click to expand...

Yes, it indicates marriage... but not of the marriage of those who have become married to the Lamb. Instead, it is of those who were/are "put away" by God because of their spiritual fornication of the nation of Israel, by which did God divorce them, and in which they continue in even until today. The adulterers are not Christians. Instead, it is the nation of Israel, who spiritually fornicated with false gods, as did their physical forefathers of the Old Testament, making of them all adulterers since they are all of Israel and believe/follow the doctrines of the Jews. As a result of her fornication and adultery, God divorced Israel. Observe in following verse the divorce by God of the nation of Israel for adultery.

[Jer 3:8 KJV]
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

[Jer 7:9 KJV]
9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;

It is impossible to have been saved and yet be an enemy of God or a spiritual adulterer because those saved are saved solely of Christ, not of themselves nor of their actions. Satan is THE enemy of God and therefore, all who are of God's enemies are of Satan, not of Christ. So, the flaw in your logic is that if it were possible that the true church was actually deemed a spiritual adulterer by God, (which would be in worshipping and following other gods), then God must divorce as He did to Israel in Jer 3:8 or He would be unfair. Yet, no divorce of any kind by God, except for His divorce of the nation of Israel, is mentioned in the Bible, nor has it been forthcoming. This is because it is impossible that any who truly follow Christ would follow anyone but Christ. If they did, then they were never saved in the first place.

[Jhn 10:26-29 KJV]
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

[Jas 4:4 KJV] 4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
 
for_his_glory said:
We are not saved yet as we have not yet endured all those things that will try and come against us in order to try and steal our faith. Those who are truly Christ own and being baptized in the Holy Spirit have the seal of promise of their inheritance and will then be saved from the rudiments of this world when Christ returns, Colossians 2:6-15.
Click to expand...

I think that all of the "are saved" below are in the present tense.

[1Co 1:18 KJV] 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
[2Co 2:15 KJV] 15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
[Eph 2:5 KJV] 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
 
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