Tasted Death for every Man !

[JLB]

It doesnt matter what you feel, the ones Christ died for, tasted death for shall be brought to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Christ Jesus died for all the world.

Only those who believed will be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Read a little further from Hebrews 2:9, and you will see the condition for salvation.

• Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Hebrews 3:12-14


Those who remain in Christ to end will be saved.


Those who become hardened through sin, can become ndeed be removed from Christ; depart from Christ.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ —


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB

 

[rogerg]

Don't you see that the converted don't do them ?
Only the unconverted commit sin.

Everyone commits temporal sins even you do, whether or not you realize it.
However, you commit the even greater sin, which is your trust of works for salvation
and not Christ's.

Speak for yourself.

Well, by your own statements, you say your reason for not sinning is in order to become saved.
You've therefore equated not sinning to getting something by that, right?
The "perfect" of Mathew 5:48 refers to completed - as in finished, done.

Did He repent of sin for you ?
Did He get baptized in His own name for the remission of your sins ?
You chose to convert.
You turned form sin.
You got baptized.

None of those things brings salvation to anyone.
Salvation is a gift only given by God to those whom He had chosen for it, through Christ, and by His mercy and grace, with no preconditions whatsoever associated to it (other than He had chosen them). It is a gift to the fullness and completeness of the word gift, with no part of it that is not of the gift.

His death was reckoned to you, so, be dead...to sin.
But as that is something YOU must do, your sect probably tells you to refrain.
Which opens the door for accommodating more sin !

Those saved have indeed been made dead to sin - a death from the sin of works, unto life in Christ, by Christ.
You are incorrect and arrogant to think that you can assume who sins and why. Especially since you do not know
what true sin is.

 

[setst777]

The writer of Hebrews wrote Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Now honestly, did the writer write here that Christ tasted death for all mankind without exception here ? Nope he did not. In the original man isnt in the verse:

τὸν δὲ βραχύ τι παρ᾽ ἀγγέλους ἠλαττωμένον βλέπομεν Ἰησοῦν διὰ τὸ πάθημα τοῦ θανάτου δόξῃ καὶ τιμῇ ἐστεφανωμένον ὅπως χάριτι θεοῦ ὑπὲρ παντὸς γεύσηται θανάτου

Man was added by the translators. The word pas can refer to all the whole, the sum total of all the group intended. Context is important n determining the group that the writer has in mind. Lets look at the very next verse 10

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Bingo, its the many sons that e suffered and died for, or tasted death for, The word many polys:

many, much, large, many, numerous, great

He tasted death for many Sons, a great number of them, everyone of them. This is important,, because later in the same epistle the writer uses the adjective many again to denote who He tasted death for Heb 9:28

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

See to taste death back in Heb 2:9 is the exact same thing as " to bear the sins of many;" again, the many Sons of vs 10, everyone of the sons is who He tasted death for, not all of mankind without exception.

See Isa 53:11

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

"Hebrews 2:9" and "Hebrews 9:27-28" mean the same thing. The phrase, "the many," means "all" in context.

Christ died for all, "the many," but the only ones out of "the many" who receive salvation are those who eagerly are waiting for him at his second coming. Not all of "the many" whom Christ died for will be saved, only those who truly believe in him - for salvation is by grace through faith.

Hebrews 9:27-28 (WEB) 27 Inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this, judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will {{{appear a second time,}}} without sin, {{{to those who are eagerly waiting for him}}} for salvation.

He died as payment for all, a ransom for all (the many), but only those who believe are actually ransomed, because salvation is by the grace of God through faith.

1 John 2:2 (WEB) And he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.

John 3:14-18 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

The purpose of Lord Jesus is to draw all people to himself, but the only ones actually drawn to himself are those who believe.

John 12:32 (WEB) And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.

Revelation 22:17 (EWEB) 17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” He who hears, let him say, “Come!” He who is thirsty, let him come. He who desires, let him take the water of life freely.

Isaiah 45:21-22 (WEB) There is no other God besides me, a just God and a Savior. There is no one besides me. 22 “Look to me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.

 

[rogerg]

Christ died for all, "the many," but the only ones out of "the many" who receive salvation are those who eagerly are waiting for him at his second coming.

I don't want to get in the middle of your discussion with brightfame52, but Christ comes to those He saves/ed twice more, not once more (in addition to the first time as suffering servant, so three times total, not two: 1) He came as the suffering servant to bring to fruition the Father's plan of salvation for those He had so chosen to it; 2) He comes when He indwells those whom He had so chosen upon their becoming saved/born-again; 3) He comes to those so chosen at the end of time to actually manifest the results of that salvation upon them. Therefore, those " who eagerly are waiting" (your phrase), represent the third (and final) time but it pertains only to those who had already been indwelt by Him (at the second time). The "many", therefore, represents only those whom He has saved, which represents only those He indwells, which are only those who await Him at the end of time. Everyone of that group will be of the saved, and none won't be of the saved.
I'm sure you're familiar with the first and third times, but I wanted to demonstrate (below) that there is a second time.

[Rom 8:9-10 KJV]
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

[2Co 13:5 KJV]
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[brightfame52]

Christ Jesus died for all the world.

Only those who believed will be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Read a little further from Hebrews 2:9, and you will see the condition for salvation.

• Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Hebrews 3:12-14


Those who remain in Christ to end will be saved.


Those who become hardened through sin, can become ndeed be removed from Christ; depart from Christ.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ —


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB

The ones Christ tasted death for shall be brought to Glory as a result of it.

 

[brightfame52]

setst777

Not all of "the many" whom Christ died for will be saved

Absolutely false

 

[setst777]

I don't want to get in the middle of your discussion with brightfame52, but Christ comes to those He saves/ed twice more, not once more (in addition to the first time as suffering servant, so three times total, not two: 1) He came as the suffering servant to bring to fruition the Father's plan of salvation for those He had so chosen to it; 2) He comes when He indwells those whom He had so chosen upon their becoming saved/born-again; 3) He comes to those so chosen at the end of time to actually manifest the results of that salvation upon them. Therefore, those " who eagerly are waiting" (your phrase), represent the third (and final) time but it pertains only to those who had already been indwelt by Him (at the second time). The "many", therefore, represents only those whom He has saved, which represents only those He indwells, which are only those who await Him at the end of time. Everyone of that group will be of the saved, and none won't be of the saved.
I'm sure you're familiar with the first and third times, but I wanted to demonstrate (below) that there is a second time.

[Rom 8:9-10 KJV]
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

[2Co 13:5 KJV]
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Hi rogerg. As I see it from Scripture, we are saved now by faith in Lord Jesus (John 3:16).

If we remain faithful to the end, manifested by sowing to the Spirit, then the Spirit, who indwells the believer, grants Eternal Life in the Heavenly Kingdom - for "The Promise" and "The Guarantee" is by Faith.

Galatians 6:7-9 (WEB) 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap eternal life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.

Hebrews 3:12-15 (WEB) 14 For WE have become partakers of Christ, {{{if we}}} hold the beginning of our confidence firm to the end. 15 while it is said, “Today if you will hear his voice, do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion.” [Psalm 95:7-8]

Hebrews 4:1 (EWEB) Let us fear therefore, lest perhaps anyone of you should seem to have come short of a {{promise of entering}} into {{His Rest.}}

Hebrews 4:11 (WEB) 11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that Rest, lest anyone fall after the {{same example of disobedience}}.

1 Corinthians 10:11-12 (EWEB) 11 Now all these things happened to them by way of example, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands be careful that he does not fall.

 

[Kermos]

Who is denied access to the "Advocate" ?

Let's visit the verse again, "if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father" (1 John 2:1).

The verse says nothing about "denied access to the 'Advocate'" as you queried, but the verse states anyone's sins are propitiated by the Advocate, so according to free-willian philosophy this means even unbelievers sins are propitiated because of the Advocate, WHICH MEANS THE PROPITIATION BY THE ADVOCATE FAILS FOR SOME PEOPLE RESULTING IN THOSE PEOPLE GOING TO HELL UNDER FREE-WILLIAN PHILOSOPHY, so the Advocate is too weak to save all people under the free-willian precept that "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 (and hence "anyone" in 1 John 2:1) is absolutely everyone in all time.

In Truth (John 14:6), the Advocate has a 100% success rate, not losing a single person; in other words, no one is snatched out of the Advocates hand - the Advocate imparts eternal life and we recipients of Life do absolutely nothing, not even a choice, to receive Life in Christ Jesus (John 10:28, John 15:16), so "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 is exclusively people who believe in Jesus by the Power of God and people who will believe in Jesus by the Power of God.

 

[rogerg]

Hi rogerg. As I see it from Scripture, we are saved now by faith in Lord Jesus (John 3:16).

Hi setst77,
I believe that we are saved by the faith OF Jesus Christ, from/by which, we receive faith IN Jesus Christ; that is, for the true believer - the elect, their faith has been given to them as gift from God. Jesus, being faithful, obedient and successful in the mission the Father gave him to accomplish, thereby brought salvation to fruition. From His faith, our faith is imputed to us along with His righteousness. Please observe:

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[Phl 3:9 KJV]
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

If we remain faithful to the end, manifested by sowing to the Spirit, then the Spirit, who indwells the believer, grants Eternal Life in the Heavenly Kingdom - for "The Promise" and "The Guarantee" is by Faith.

If we are of His chosen then we cannot be unfaithful because it is God Himself (not of ourselves), who made guarantee that we are not unfaithful.

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I believe that salvation/eternal life must first be given by God, by which, we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit. So,in having the Holy Spirit, we also have eternal life.

I believe the guarantee is of Christ's faith, not of man's.

Galatians 6:7-9 (WEB) 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap eternal life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.

Yes, but only the saved can, and do, sow to the Spirit. Before and until that happens, we all sow to the flesh.

Hebrews 3:12-15 (WEB) 14 For WE have become partakers of Christ, {{{if we}}} hold the beginning of our confidence firm to the end. 15 while it is said, “Today if you will hear his voice, do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion.” [Psalm 95:7-8]

Only the saved hold their confidence (faith) until the end, and that, per 1 Pet 1:5, is guaranteed by God, not by man, and therefore, their hearts cannot be hardened.
Many people hear the gospel with human hearing, yet many (of their) hearts nevertheless eventually become hardened. Why? Because they were not of the chosen, and therefore, their hearing was not mixed with (Christ's) faith. However, spiritual hearing is given by the Holy Spirit to the elect along with Christ's faith when they become born again, and their heart cannot become hardened, and so they grow to yield a hundredfold.

[Heb 4:2 KJV] 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

Hebrews 4:1 (EWEB) Let us fear therefore, lest perhaps anyone of you should seem to have come short of a {{promise of entering}} into {{His Rest.}}

Those who do come short of it, were/are not of the saved - the chosen:

[Heb 4:2-3 KJV]
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 4:11 (WEB) 11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that Rest, lest anyone fall after the {{same example of disobedience}}.

In other words, be quick to enter into that rest - be quick to cease from working for salvation, and instead rush to trust in Christ (who is and gives that rest).

[Heb 4:8-10 KJV]
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.

1 Corinthians 10:11-12 (EWEB) 11 Now all these things happened to them by way of example, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands be careful that he does not fall.

Yes, all true believers - the elect - are given admonitions in the Bible regarding what they should do and what they should not do. That is how they become edified and learn. No one wakes up one morning knowing everything of the spiritual. However, the saved follow them as a result of being saved but not to seek gain from doing so. The unsaved, however, are spiritually blind, and believe that by doing them, they will attain unto salvation.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Its too bad that you dont seem to see that when you condition your salvation on something you do or dont do, you are living according to the flesh.

Salvation is conditional on obedience...love for God and neighbor.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Who is denied access to the "Advocate" ?

Nobody, so all can be converted.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Lying isn't in bounds, and neither are any un-Christain like traits or actions.
The difference between us is that you see not doing them as a way to become saved,
while I see not doing them coming from, or as a result of, salvation,

So then you must admit that those who do sin are not converted.

not as an attempt to gain something
from it, however, no one is perfect.

You are wrong there.
The repentance from sin is real to some, thanks be to God.

I wasn't saved because of my actions, but by Christ's actions - His actions were reckoned to me as an undeserved gift, you seem to be unable to grasp that concept. I do not speak of myself to glorify myself, instead, I speak only of Christ and of what He has done, thereby giving to Him all of the glory.
You on the other hand, seek to glorify yourself, not Christ.
As to whether you should believe me or not, that is up to you.

As you do not believe men can be perfect before God, I cannot believe you.
How can I trust a potentially lying child of the devil ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Everyone commits temporal sins even you do, whether or not you realize it.

You are wrong there.
It is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Some look for the escapes from temptations, which James says are necessary for something to even be called a sin. (James 1:14-15)

However, you commit the even greater sin, which is your trust of works for salvation
and not Christ's.

What you call works, I call obedience.
I was commanded to repent of sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins.
I obeyed.
I am also commanded to endure faithfully until the end.
I will, by the grace of God.

Well, by your own statements, you say your reason for not sinning is in order to become saved.
You've therefore equated not sinning to getting something by that, right?
The "perfect" of Mathew 5:48 refers to completed - as in finished, done.

The disobedient will not be saved, so obeying seems like the Godly way to go.
Are you against obeying God in order to be saved ?
Right now it seems you are.

None of those things brings salvation to anyone.
Salvation is a gift only given by God to those whom He had chosen for it, through Christ, and by His mercy and grace, with no preconditions whatsoever associated to it (other than He had chosen them). It is a gift to the fullness and completeness of the word gift, with no part of it that is not of the gift.

You have a religion where obedience to God isn't necessary.

Those saved have indeed been made dead to sin - a death from the sin of works, unto life in Christ, by Christ.
You are incorrect and arrogant to think that you can assume who sins and why. Especially since you do not know
what true sin is.

Nobody is "saved" until they hear their name being read from the book of life.
A day of judgement is coming, after the which one can declare their salvation.

Instead of talking about "saved or "salvation", we should be talking about "conversion".

 

[brightfame52]

rogerg

I believe that we are saved by the faith OF Jesus Christ, from/by which, we receive faith IN Jesus Christ; that is, for the true believer - the elect, their faith has been given to them as gift from God. Jesus, being faithful, obedient and successful in the mission the Father gave him to accomplish, thereby brought salvation to fruition. From His faith, our faith is imputed to us along with His righteousness.

Agreed, the elect are saved, Justified by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ or the equivalent His One Life of Obedience unto death Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
If we study the word obedience in a english dictionary, one of its close synonyms is faithfulness.

OBEDIENCE Synonyms: 33 Synonyms & Antonyms for OBEDIENCE | Thesaurus.com

Find 33 ways to say OBEDIENCE, along with antonyms, related words, and example sentences at Thesaurus.com, the world's most trusted free thesaurus.

www.thesaurus.com

And His Obedience unto death is equivalent to Him tasting death in Heb 2:9
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

 

[brightfame52]

Salvation is conditional on obedience...love for God and neighbor.

Thats false, salvation is conditioned on Christs obedience, His Love for God and Neighbor in the behalf of Gods elect. Rom 5:19 and so He kept for the elect the Law of God perfectly in all of its holy morality, and He died its cursed death for His People because of their sins against it. Christ has fulfilled the Law for the elect, and all for whom He did it for, will be given the gift of believing in Him.

 

[setst777]

Hi setst77,
I believe that we are saved by the faith OF Jesus Christ, from/by which, we receive faith IN Jesus Christ; that is, for the true believer - the elect, their faith has been given to them as gift from God. Jesus, being faithful, obedient and successful in the mission the Father gave him to accomplish, thereby brought salvation to fruition. From His faith, our faith is imputed to us along with His righteousness. Please observe:

If we are of His chosen then we cannot be unfaithful because it is God Himself (not of ourselves), who made guarantee that we are not unfaithful.

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

"1 Peter 1:4-5 " tells me that God power onto salvation is kept by our faith in Lord Jesus.

And there are many Passages like this, warning the believers to remain in the faith and so be saved. In fact, I am going to devote this message just to show you some of these Passages, but there are many others - OT and NT. For instance:

Romans 1:16-17 (WEB) 16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ, because it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first, and also for the Greek. 17 For in it is revealed God’s righteousness from faith to faith. As it is written, “But the righteous shall live by faith.” [Habakkuk 2:4]
Romans 11:19-22 (ESV) [Paul speaking to the Church of believers] Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Luke 21:34-36 (WEB) [Lord Jesus speaking to believers in him] 34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore, be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Matthew 24:11-13 (WEB) [Lord Jesus speaking to believers in him] 11 Many false prophets will arise and will lead many astray. 12 Because iniquity will be multiplied, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.
Luke 21:19 (EWEB) 19 “By your endurance you will win your lives.
Philippians 3:10-12 (WEB) [Paul, professing his own faith] 10 that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, becoming conformed to his death, 11 if by any means I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect; but I press on, that I {{{may}}} take hold of that for which also I was taken hold of by Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 4:16 (WEB) 16 Pay attention to yourself and to your teaching. Continue in these things, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear (listen to) you.
1 Timothy 6:18-19 (WEB) 18 that they do good, that they be rich in good works, that they be ready to distribute, willing to share; 19 laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold of eternal life.
Hebrews 5:9 [Directed to the Church of believers] Having been made perfect, he became to all of who obey him the author of eternal salvation

Hebrews 6:11-12 (WEB) [Directed to the Church of believers] 11 We desire that each one of you may show the same diligence to the fullness of hope even to the end, 12 that you won’t be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and perseverance inherited the promises.
Hebrews 12:14-16 (WEB) [Directed to the Church of believers] 14 Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord, 15 looking carefully lest there be any man who falls short of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and many be defiled by it, 16 lest there be any sexually immoral person, or profane person, like Esau, who sold his birthright for one meal.

James 1:12 (WEB) [Directed to the Church of believers] 12 Blessed is a person who endures temptation, for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life, which the Lord promised to those who love him.
2 Peter 1:8-11 (WEB) [Peter to the Church of believers] 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to not be idle or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brothers and sisters, be more diligent to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never stumble. 11 For thus you will be richly supplied with the entrance into the Eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 3:17 (WEB) [Peter to the Church of believers] 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware, lest being carried away with the error of the wicked, you fall from your own steadfastness.

Jude 1:21 (WEB) [Jude to the Church of believers] 21 Keep yourselves in God’s love, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

Revelation 3:11 (WEB) 11 Hold firmly that which you have, so that no one takes your crown.

Revelation 3:3-5 (WEB) 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

I will answere the rest of your reply in my next post.

 

[setst777]

I believe that salvation/eternal life must first be given by God, by which, we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit. So,in having the Holy Spirit, we also have eternal life.

I agree that salvation/eternal life be given by God, by which, we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. And all the Scriptures keep teaching us that we are saved by faith in Lord Jesus, and those that do not believe will remain condemned (John 3:14-18).

The Spirit will only indwell to give life to those who believe.

John 7:37-38 (WEB) 38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive.

Galatians 3:2 (NIV) 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Galatians 3:5 (NIV) 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

Galatians 3:13-14 (WEB) 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,” 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit {{{through faith}}}.

Ephesians 1:13-14 (WEB) 13 in whom you also, having heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

The genuine Faith of the Gospel always results in obedience, to become disciples. If a person claims to believe in Jesus as Lord; yet, he refuses to follow Christ, is his faith real? Only by an obedient faith does the Spirit indwell a person.

Acts 5:32 (EWEB) 32 We are his witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

John 14:15-17 (Young’s Literal Translation)15 `If you love me, keep my commands, 16 and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you -- to the age; 17 the Spirit of truth

John 14:23 (EWEB) 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.

I believe the guarantee is of Christ's faith, not of man's.

You are free to believe that if you like, but that is not the Gospel: (John 3:14-18).

Yes, but only the saved can, and do, sow to the Spirit. Before and until that happens, we all sow to the flesh.

In "Galatians 6:7-9," Paul is specifically addressing the Church of believers in Galatia. Paul is warning them not be deceived, because God will not be mocked.

Galatians 6:7-9 (WEB) [Paul addressing the Church of believers in Galatia] 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap eternal life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.

Only the saved hold their confidence (faith) until the end, and that, per 1 Pet 1:5, is guaranteed by God, not by man, and therefore, their hearts cannot be hardened.

Hebrews 3:12-15 (WEB) 12 Beware, {{{brothers}}} and {{{sisters}}}, lest perhaps there might be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God; 13 but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called “today”, lest anyone of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence firm to the end, 15 while it is said, “Today if you will hear his voice, do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion.” [Psalm 95:7-8]

You cannot "fall away" from something you never had to begin with.
You cannot "hold the beginning firm to the end" that which you never held onto to begin with.

Those who do come short of it, were/are not of the saved - the chosen:

[Heb 4:2-3 KJV]

In the context, I can see why you draw that conclusion; however, "Hebrews 4:1" is clearly addressing believers, warning them to fear,

Hebrews 4:1 (WEB) [Warning to Believers] {{{Let us}}} fear therefore, lest perhaps anyone of you should seem to have come short of a promise of entering into His Rest.

You cannot come short of something you were never in to begin with. That is why the "us" is to fear.

In other words, be quick to enter into that rest - be quick to cease from working for salvation, and instead rush to trust in Christ (who is and gives that rest).

The "Rest" is future, the Eternal Rest of God's own habitation. This Passage has nothing to do with being quick to enter his Rest. The believer is to work now, so that he may enter that Rest (Psalms 132:11-14), when we will actually rest from all our labors.

Hebrews 4:11 (EWEB) 11 {{{Let us}}} therefore give diligence to enter into that Rest, lest anyone fall after the {{same example of disobedience}}

The believer is to work out his faith now, so that he may enter that Rest, when we will actually rest from all our labors.

Revelation 14:13 (WEB) 13 I heard a voice from heaven saying,
“Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors; for their works follow with them.”

Yes, all true believers - the elect - are given admonitions in the Bible regarding what they should do and what they should not do. That is how they become edified and learn. No one wakes up one morning knowing everything of the spiritual. However, the saved follow them as a result of being saved but not to seek gain from doing so. The unsaved, however, are spiritually blind, and believe that by doing them, they will attain unto salvation.

Actually salvation is by faith, which is when we are regenerated.

Regeneration, which is to pass from death to life (2 Corinthians 1:9-10), is by faith:

John 5:24 (WEB) Most certainly I tell you, he who hears {{listens to}} my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life [regeneration].

And faith, by which we are saved is represented in Baptism - dead to the Old Master, and alive to follow Lord Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love (Romans 6; Colossians 3:1-17; Ephesians 4:17-32; Galatians 5:13-25).

1 John 1:5-7 (WEB) [directed to Believers] 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and don’t tell the truth. 7 But {{{if we}}} walk in the light, {{{as he is in the light}}}, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

If your faith is not manifested in sanctification onto righteousness, then we (who possess the Holy Spirit) are rejecting God.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 (WEB) [directed to Believers] 3 For this is the will of God: your sanctification, that you [the believer] abstain from sexual immorality, 4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in sanctification and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust, even as the Gentiles who don’t know God, 6 that no one should take advantage of and wrong a brother or sister in this matter; because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as also we forewarned you and testified. 7 For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification. 8 Therefore he who rejects this doesn’t reject man, but God, who has also given his Holy Spirit to you.

 

[rogerg]

So then you must admit that those who do sin are not converted.

You are wrong there.
The repentance from sin is real to some, thanks be to God.

As you do not believe men can be perfect before God, I cannot believe you.
How can I trust a potentially lying child of the devil ?

We're going in circles. I think this has become unfruitful to the both of us so I'm going
to cease further discussion on this- at least for now.

 

[Kermos]

Salvation is conditional on obedience...love for God and neighbor.

Obedience is a fruit of the Spirit of God in Christians for the Apostle wrote "Christ, foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that the faith of you and hope are in God, the souls of you having purified in the obedience to the truth through Spirit, into a sincere love of the brethren (1 Peter 1:19-22).

Obedience is a result of the indwelling Holy Spirit in concurrence with Salvation; therefore, your "Salvation is conditional on obedience" is the opposite of Apostolic testimony.

 

[brightfame52]

hopeful2 said

Salvation is conditional on obedience...love for God and neighbor.

Thats the Law, and so you must keep/obey it perfectly to be saved !