Tattoos, Movies, and Music.

[Kidron]

Paul said that "all things are lawful for him", but then he explained that he would not do all of them as he didnt want them to control him....
He also didnt want them to give the wrong impression regarding his witness.
In other words....."Abstain from the APPEARANCE of sin/evil".

So, let me ask you.
If a girl has a tramp stamp set of "wings" that are tattooed on and across her lower back, and she says she's a "Christian"....then is there a conflict?

Is rock music,......OR.... is listening to any type of music other then "worship" music, wrong?
Ive a friend who is a leader in a large mainline denominational church, and he just went to an Eric Clapton concert with his sons and loved it and told his church it was "awesome"..
So, is there a conflict?

I like certain Hollywood actors.
Sometimes they put out movies that are not "G" rated and i will see them.
So, should i not watch them or buy them?
If i do, and then i come here and Thread about "Holiness", then..........is there a conflict?

One of my favorite Christian artists was in concert. They are a very well known artist, have been in the Christian music biz since 1968...........After this concert, they went to a local restaurant and after the meal lit up a PIPE and had a smoke.
Is there a conflict?

The fact is, non of us can or does live in a entertainment free room painted bright white, with no contact with the outside world.
Non of us sit in rags, eating locusts and honey, under a single light bulb hung by a cord, and only drink water while we read the Bible day and night unless we are sleeping on the cold tile floor.
All of us have things we like to watch and feel and do, and some of these things are boarder line "no nos", regarding the strict interpretation of the scriptures that tell you to "present yourself as a living sacrifice", and to be "holy as God is holy".

Now here is the kicker, so that you can fly off the handle and tie yourself in a complete knot of circular reasoning with your 4 scriptures that you've memorized that you use to filter and reduce the entire bible down to your personal opinion book of legalism.

IF you are a born again believer, then you are not under the law, and this means that where there is no law, there is no "sin".
As Sin is only represented by breaking the commandments, and as the law has been abolished, then when you do something like watch porn or say the F-word or judge your brother, then you have not actually sinned and are not actually sinning.
Congratulations.
But what you are doing is now categorized as a "work of the flesh" and there is a nice long list of those listed if you care to dust off your bible and read your New Testament.
So, as you can also read in Romans that "Sin is not imputed to you", and "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not and does no impute sin"....this means that any sin you commit is not charged to you anymore as Jesus has already died for that one and your next 789,111 sins you commit this year..
If you didnt know this, then WELCOME TO SALVATION AND GRACE.
Nice to see you.

So, keeping all that in mind, and now relating it to Music and Tats and Movies.
What you need to do, is take a look at your level of commitment to God and truthfully access how this is impacted when you do things that involve LOOKING and HEARING and WEARING.
"judge yourself that you be not judged".



~K~

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I think it would be wonderful if we could separate ourselves from worldly things.

 

[evenifigoalone]

IMO music isn't nearly as much of a gray area as movies. Unless we're talking music with lyrics praising drugs, sex, violence...that's wrong. I see music as something very close to my beliefs. I use it to more or less motivate myself. So I'd be more inclined to stay away from music that glorifies evil.

Movies, I admit I allow myself to watch nearly anything that isn't doesn't have certain content. (Porn is a no-no.) For me, I recognize that the characters in a movie or show are not going to reflect my beliefs necessarily, so I'm not always going to agree with their actions. I draw the line at series that in some way glorify evil, as in hey, you should do this too. On the other hand, neither would I want any and everything offensive removed to the point that it's all kid-friendly. That tends to dumb things down and detract from the story.

But all that is pretty debatable and everyone has to come to their own conclusions. What's fine and doesn't tempt me may not be fine and temptless for someone else.

Would I be better off without watching movies or series? ...it'd certainly be more simple that way. Since I have a tendency to get obsessed with them, I probably should exercise more care, at least.

 

[Gary]

IF you are a born again believer, then you are not under the law, and this means that where there is no law, there is no "sin".
As Sin is only represented by breaking the commandments, and as the law has been abolished, then when you do something like watch porn or say the F-word or judge your brother, then you have not actually sinned and are not actually sinning.

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

.

 

[jasoncran]

what? a hyper grace guy. the penalty of the law and the means of atonement was place upon the lord. we must still strive to be like jesus. the torah and the commandments of the lord state how we are to please him.if you are a drug addict do you get clean and then go out and do drugs all the while saying im clean?!

 

[Kidron]

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.


.

Yes, and Jesus did fulfill the law., he even told you so.......edited for snark.........see what he is saying?.......HE CAME TO FULLFILL THE LAW , AND HE DID.
AND THATS WHY YOU DONT HAVE TO..
SO..thanks for reminding us.
He fulfilled it, then God abolished it for SALVATION and replaced it with Grace.
This is why you have a NEW Testament and not just an OLD.
This is why you have a NEW Covenant, and not just the old one.
This is why your bible tells you that, "if righteous comes by the LAW then Christ is DEAD IN VAIN".
This is why your bible tells you that, "NOW the righteousness of GOD >without the law"< is manifested"........ad JESUS IS the LITERAL Law Abolishing Manifestation of the Grace of God.
HE IS the Grace of God.
This is why your NEW TESTAMENT tells you that, "the law came by MOSES".....but.............wait for it.....................wait............"GRACE and TRUTH came by JESUS CHRIST".

See, its really simple, this thing called Salvation........its God giving your his very righteousness for FREE if you will BELIEVE.......and that is why your NEW TESTAMENT tells you............."the UNGODLY are justified, as their FAITH is COUNTED....that is to say
ACCEPTED for Righteousness"...........or in other words........you , the sinner, accepts and receives by BELIEVING that GOD sent his Son to die for YOUR SINS......and if you will believe it...then God will accept your BELIEF and thereby justify you as righteous.
And his basis for it, is to substitute the DEATH of Christ as your PAYMENT for all your sins.

Salvation is really great........edited for snark
Think of it like this......If you take Jesus as your sin bearing Savior, then God will take you.




~K~

 

[jasoncran]

Yes, and Jesus did fulfill the law., he even told you so.......edited for snark .........see what he is saying?.......HE CAME TO FULLFILL THE LAW , AND HE DID.
AND THATS WHY YOU DONT HAVE TO..
SO..thanks for reminding us.
He fulfilled it, then God abolished it for SALVATION and replaced it with Grace.
This is why you have a NEW Testament and not just an OLD.
This is why you have a NEW Covenant, and not just the old one.
This is why your bible tells you that, "if righteous comes by the LAW then Christ is DEAD IN VAIN".
This is why your bible tells you that, "NOW the righteousness of GOD >without the law"< is manifested"........and JESUS is the LITERAL Manifestation of the Grace of God.
HE IS the Grace of God.
This is why your NEW TESTAMENT tells you that, "the law came by MOSES".....but.............wait for it.....................wait............"GRACE and TRUTH came by JESUS CHRIST".

See, its really simple, this thing called Salvation........its God giving your his very righteousness for FREE if you will BELIEVE.......and that is why your NEW TESTAMENT tells you............."the UNGODLY are justified, as their FAITH is COUNTED....that is to say
ACCEPTED for Righteousness"...........or in other words........you , the sinner, accepts and receives by BELIEVING that GOD sent his Son to die for YOUR SINS......and if you will believe it...then God will accept your BELIEF and thereby justify you as righteous.
And his basis for it, is to substitute the DEATH of Christ as your PAYMENT for all your sins.

Salvation is really great........edited for snark


~K~

so I can murder and Im on way to heaven?i can watch porn, cheat on my wife and sin all I want and think im saved? I don't have to try to live holy and pray for the wisdom and strength to live right? sir, we live holy because we are his, that is evidence that he did save us. we do it not for salvation but because we are saved. god isn't expecting us to be holy and sinless. we will never be but we will have a transformed nature and desire to be like God. we will grow more like him as we age.

 

[Kathi]

Paul said that "all things are lawful for him", but then he explained that he would not do all of them as he didnt want them to control him....
He also didnt want them to give the wrong impression regarding his witness.
In other words....."Abstain from the APPEARANCE of sin/evil".

So, let me ask you.
If a girl has a tramp stamp set of "wings" that are tattooed on and across her lower back, and she says she's a "Christian"....then is there a conflict?

Is rock music,......OR.... is listening to any type of music other then "worship" music, wrong?
Ive a friend who is a leader in a large mainline denominational church, and he just went to an Eric Clapton concert with his sons and loved it and told his church it was "awesome"..
So, is there a conflict?

I like certain Hollywood actors.
Sometimes they put out movies that are not "G" rated and i will see them.
So, should i not watch them or buy them?
If i do, and then i come here and Thread about "Holiness", then..........is there a conflict?

One of my favorite Christian artists was in concert. They are a very well known artist, have been in the Christian music biz since 1968...........After this concert, they went to a local restaurant and after the meal lit up a PIPE and had a smoke.
Is there a conflict?

The fact is, non of us can or does live in a entertainment free room painted bright white, with no contact with the outside world.
Non of us sit in rags, eating locusts and honey, under a single light bulb hung by a cord, and only drink water while we read the Bible day and night unless we are sleeping on the cold tile floor.
All of us have things we like to watch and feel and do, and some of these things are boarder line "no nos", regarding the strict interpretation of the scriptures that tell you to "present yourself as a living sacrifice", and to be "holy as God is holy".

Now here is the kicker, so that you can fly off the handle and tie yourself in a complete knot of circular reasoning with your 4 scriptures that you've memorized that you use to filter and reduce the entire bible down to your personal opinion book of legalism.

IF you are a born again believer, then you are not under the law, and this means that where there is no law, there is no "sin".
As Sin is only represented by breaking the commandments, and as the law has been abolished, then when you do something like watch porn or say the F-word or judge your brother, then you have not actually sinned and are not actually sinning.
Congratulations.
But what you are doing is now categorized as a "work of the flesh" and there is a nice long list of those listed if you care to dust off your bible and read your New Testament.
So, as you can also read in Romans that "Sin is not imputed to you", and "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not and does no impute sin"....this means that any sin you commit is not charged to you anymore as Jesus has already died for that one and your next 789,111 sins you commit this year..
If you didnt know this, then WELCOME TO SALVATION AND GRACE.
Nice to see you.

So, keeping all that in mind, and now relating it to Music and Tats and Movies.
What you need to do, is take a look at your level of commitment to God and truthfully access how this is impacted when you do things that involve LOOKING and HEARING and WEARING.
"judge yourself that you be not judged".



~K~

1) What is a tramp stamp?
2) I stay with music that does not have inappropriate lyrics in it.
3)I do not go to movies anymore.I do not want to support Hollywood(Hollyweird) and I am not comfortable with the subject matter of today's movies.
4)What were they smoking?Tobacco or marijuana?Is marijuana legal in that State?
What does scripture say about doing these things?That is what is important.

 

[Kidron]

what? a hyper grace guy. the penalty of the law and the means of atonement was place upon the lord. we must still strive to be like jesus. the torah and the commandments of the lord state how we are to please him.if you are a drug addict do you get clean and then go out and do drugs all the while saying im clean?!

---------------------------------------------------------------------

You "please God" first and foremost by doing what he said his will is.....and what he said his will is, is for you to receive his Son by Faith........"""""" For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."""""

So, have you done his will or do you prefer to preach the Mosiac Commandments?

Let me tell what happens to a lot of Christians.
The get into a mental legalistic bondage because they really dont understand what Grace is or how you get it from God.
They do not understand that what God is offering through his Son's sacrifice, is God's own personal righteousness.
They have no clue........they think its all about water baptism or trying to imitate Jesus., or some type of personal effort, or belonging to a specific "church"..
They get caught up in this law keeping for salvation- legalistic theological trap, whereby they try to save their own souls by doing good deeds, keeping the law....etc.
They have not understood that a sinner cannot save his own soul, he cant pay for his own sins and have them forgiven.
They are on him until God pardons them, and he does not use the law to pardon..........he uses the sacrifice of his sinless Son to do it.
They do not understand that the law has no power to forgive sins......it only has the power to curse you for your sins......it only has the authority to Condemn you., but not any power to SAVE you.
This is why God tells you that once you are saved, you are 'no longer UNDER the law"...."but under Grace".
This is why your bible tells you that "..."we CONCLUDE that a person is JUSTIFIED by FAITH, = without the deeds of the law"......or in other words........without trying to keep the law to be right with God.
See, its God who is the one that justifies, forgives, and accepts, "him which believeth in Jesus".
Try to understand that its not the Law that you want to justify you, as this is impossible once you have broken it, and everyone has........So, its not the Law that we need to accept us or forgive us.......but rather we need GOD to do it.
And he does, "Being justified FREELY by his GRACE, through the redemption that is IN Christ Jesus".......as "his FAITH is counted (accepted) for Righteousness".
2nd Corinthians 3:11,13 explains to you that the Law is gone., if you care to study this chapter.

 

[Matthew G]

I won't speak to the "Law vs. Grace" point that has already been made very well by jasoncran, Gary, and questdriven; but I will speak for myself.

I have a few tattoos myself. One is faith-based, the other 3 are not. My favorite band is AC/DC, my favorite movie series (besides Star Wars, of course) is Friday the 13th, and I smoke (although in this final one, I am trying desperately to quit).

Do any of these affect my walk with Christ? No. I can honestly say they don't. However, I realize that, as questdriven said, what is just fine and dandy for me may not be fine and dandy for someone else.

And I do know where to draw the line, and when that line is crossed, I turn off whatever I'm watching/listening to.

And if I'm hanging out with someone who does have an issue with those things, then we avoid them, and don't even mention them. That's because - just because they don't make me stumble, they may cause my brother/sister to stumble, and I am called not to let that happen on my watch (Romans 14:13).

 

[Gary]

Yes, and Jesus did fulfill the law., he even told you so.......edited for snark.........see what he is saying?.......HE CAME TO FULLFILL THE LAW , AND HE DID.
AND THATS WHY YOU DONT HAVE TO..
SO..thanks for reminding us.

Matthew 5
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Jesus may have fulfilled to law, but heaven and earth are still present. They have not passed away......yet.

James 2
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.


What many people do not understand is that Jesus took the burdens of the physical law and made them spiritual.

It should also be noted that all the books of the New Testament were written well after Jesus ascended into heaven.

If the law was completely done away with, why does James make reference to the law?

These things need to be considered whenever someone says we are no longer under the law.

.

 

[Matthew G]

You "please God" first and foremost by doing what he said his will is.....and what he said his will is, is for you to receive his Son by Faith........"""""" For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."""""
So, have you done his will or do you prefer to preach the Mosiac Commandments?

-----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me tell what happens to a lot of Christians.
The get into a mental legalistic bondage because they really dont understand what Grace is or how you get it from God.
They do not understand that what God is offering through his Son's sacrifice, is God's own personal righteousness.
They have no clue........they think its all about water baptism or trying to imitate Jesus., or some type of personal effort, or belonging to a specific "church"..
They get caught up in this law keeping for salvation- legalistic theological trap, whereby they try to save their own souls by doing good deeds, keeping the law....etc.
They have not understood that a sinner cannot save his own soul, he cant pay for his own sins and have them forgiven.
They are on him until God pardons them, and he does not use the law to pardon..........he uses the sacrifice of his sinless Son to do it.
They do not understand that the law has no power to forgive sins......it only has the power to curse you for your sins......it only has the authority to Condemn you., but not any power to SAVE you.
This is why God tells you that once you are saved, you are 'no longer UNDER the law"...."but under Grace".
This is why your bible tells you that "..."we CONCLUDE that a person is JUSTIFIED by FAITH, = without the deeds of the law"......or in other words........without trying to keep the law to be right with God.
See, its God who is the one that justifies, forgives, and accepts, "him which believeth in Jesus".
Try to understand that its not the Law that you want to justify you, as this is impossible once you have broken it, and everyone has........So, its not the Law that we need to accept us or forgive us.......but rather we need GOD to do it.
And he does, "Being justified FREELY by his GRACE, through the redemption that is IN Christ Jesus".......as "his FAITH is counted (accepted) for Righteousness".
2nd Corinthians 3:11,13 explains to you that the Law is gone., if you care to study this chapter.

Romans Chapter 6
"
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."


Being under grace is no excuse to continue to sin. If it is a hindrance, cast it from you (Hebrews 12:1).

 

[Matthew G]

Matthew 5
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Jesus may have fulfilled to law, but heaven and earth are still present. They have not passed away......yet.

James 2
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.


What many people do not understand is that Jesus took the burdens of the physical law and made them spiritual.

It should also be noted that all the books of the New Testament were written well after Jesus ascended into heaven.

If the law was completely done away with, why does James make reference to the law?

These things need to be considered whenever someone says we are no longer under the law.

.

James does not conflict with Paul. James was writing to people who already knew Christ. The point of his epistle was, forgive me for oversimplifying, "If you believe like you say you do, then you need to live like it."

 

[Gary]

James does not conflict with Paul. James was writing to people who already knew Christ. The point of his epistle was, forgive me for oversimplifying, "If you believe like you say you do, then you need to live like it."

I was simply pointing out that if the law was abolished, why would James and other writers of the NT even mention it.

I agree with your post.

 

[farouk]

1) What is a tramp stamp?
2) I stay with music that does not have inappropriate lyrics in it.
3)I do not go to movies anymore.I do not want to support Hollywood(Hollyweird) and I am not comfortable with the subject matter of today's movies.
4)What were they smoking?Tobacco or marijuana?Is marijuana legal in that State?
What does scripture say about doing these things?That is what is important.

Hi Ms Kathi:

1) A tramp stamp is a lower back tattoo; sometimes the term is used pejoratively, though not always. It has long been thought of as being more of a ladies' placement.

2) I, too, think lyrics are very important.

3) Hollywood is largely a disaster.

4) FYI, I would be strongly against marijuana as a recreational passtime. If, however, it is legal in some states, and pharmaceutical companies are ripping people off with expensive meds that could in some circumstances be produced far more cheaply and still safely, I am not opposed to legal and safe trials, for the safety and price benefit of ill people vai prescription.

I think various Scriptures could be quoted from various aspects; Romans 14 among them.

Blessings.

 

[Matthew G]

I was simply pointing out that if the law was abolished, why would James and other writers of the NT even mention it.

I agree with your post.

After posting, it dawned on my that this was probably the case. Apologies for taking it out of context.

 

[Gary]

After posting, it dawned on my that this was probably the case. Apologies for taking it out of context.

Not a problem. I've been know to do the same thing from time to time.

 

[farouk]

After posting, it dawned on my that this was probably the case. Apologies for taking it out of context.

Romans, Galatians and Hebrews would indicate that the law has been changed. The Lord Jesus is a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek; in the Old Testament the Levites were the priests; the ceremonial Sabbath is clearly not in force, neither are various dietary requirements, as per Peter's vision in Acts 10 & 11; the born again believer is under grace, etc.

Blessings.

 

[Kathi]

Hi Ms Kathi:

1) A tramp stamp is a lower back tattoo; sometimes the term is used pejoratively, though not always. It has long been thought of as being more of a ladies' placement.

2) I, too, think lyrics are very important.

3) Hollywood is largely a disaster.

4) FYI, I would be strongly against marijuana as a recreational passtime. If, however, it is legal in some states, and pharmaceutical companies are ripping people off with expensive meds that could in some circumstances be produced far more cheaply and still safely, I am not opposed to legal and safe trials, for the safety and price benefit of ill people vai prescription.

I think various Scriptures could be quoted from various aspects; Romans 14 among them.

Blessings.

Thanks farouk for your reply.Yes,if you're smoking the marijuana in a State where it is illegal you are then breaking a law.That is not ok.Their are two States now where it is legal.My State which is Washington and Colorado.If it is legal in that State which you are smoking it then it is an individual choice.

 

[farouk]

Thanks farouk for your reply.Yes,if you're smoking the marijuana in a State where it is illegal you are then breaking a law.That is not ok.Their are two States now where it is legal.My State which is Washington and another.I forgot what state that is.If it is legal in that State which you are smoking it then it is an individual choice.

Yw, Ms Kathi; it was a question with many parts to it!

Blessings.

PS: Even where marijuana is legal, I still think it's wise to use it under a physician's guidance, if at all.