Tattoos

[Denique Coelum]

In the J.N.D. Bible, Leviticus 19 v 28 is quite explicit:

"And cuttings for a dead person shall ye not make in your flesh, nor put any tattoo writing upon you: I am Jehovah."

I'd love a tattoo. I'd have a scripture of some sort, possibly a massive crucifix across my chest. But I firmly believe that it is contrary to God's will for us to tattoo ourselves, so I would never get one, or encourage anyone else to. I feel the same way about piercing. I'd love to have a gold ring in my ear (roguish, piratical, a flavour of gypsy... mm...) but, as many have pointed out here, the body of the believer is a temple and should thus remain un-mutilated.

It's a controversial subject. One of my brethren friends was on a train one time, and he was sitting opposite a gentleman who was covered from head to foot in tattoos, literally covered in them. This chap must've caught my friend looking at him oddly, and so he asked something like, "Are you intimidated by me?". I don't know what my friend replied, but the tattooed gent said, "Well, look at this." He held out his arm, and there was a well-known scripture written on it, amongst various patterns and designs. It turned out that all of this guy's numerous tattoos were verses from the Bible, and he used his body to preach to people. He said he was an evangelist.

Now, I don't know what to make of that! The guy has good intentions, right enough, but will God prosper someone's labours if they go directly against a commandment of His in order to carry them out? That's a question I'm not equipped to answer.

 

[theLords]

In the J.N.D. Bible, Leviticus 19 v 28 is quite explicit:

"And cuttings for a dead person shall ye not make in your flesh, nor put any tattoo writing upon you: I am Jehovah."

I'd love a tattoo. I'd have a scripture of some sort, possibly a massive crucifix across my chest. But I firmly believe that it is contrary to God's will for us to tattoo ourselves, so I would never get one, or encourage anyone else to. I feel the same way about piercing. I'd love to have a gold ring in my ear (roguish, piratical, a flavour of gypsy... mm...) but, as many have pointed out here, the body of the believer is a temple and should thus remain un-mutilated.

It's a controversial subject. One of my brethren friends was on a train one time, and he was sitting opposite a gentleman who was covered from head to foot in tattoos, literally covered in them. This chap must've caught my friend looking at him oddly, and so he asked something like, "Are you intimidated by me?". I don't know what my friend replied, but the tattooed gent said, "Well, look at this." He held out his arm, and there was a well-known scripture written on it, amongst various patterns and designs. It turned out that all of this guy's numerous tattoos were verses from the Bible, and he used his body to preach to people. He said he was an evangelist.

Now, I don't know what to make of that! The guy has good intentions, right enough, but will God prosper someone's labours if they go directly against a commandment of His in order to carry them out? That's a question I'm not equipped to answer.

It's important to consider the context of Leviticus. It's also interesting that in Ezekiel the Lord says: v 12-And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. (Some translations put it "a ring in your nose and...") Many Christians argue that to get a piercing or tattoo is sin because we are the temples of God, but then proceed to put chemicals and high grams of fat into their bodies. Oh, well.

The context of Leviticus 19:28

It seems every Christian anti-tattoo argument is based primarily on one thing...a single verse from Leviticus:

"You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh on account of the dead or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the LORD."

Does this verse really condemn all tattoos?

Read properly, no!

Leviticus 19:26-31 deals with pagan practices and God's prohibitions against adopting those practices. In verse 28, God is warning the Jewish people about a pagan practice at funerals, where pagans would mutilate/mark themselves to appease their false gods. The pagans hoped that by cutting themselves and marking images/symbols of idols on their bodies, that they would obtain favour in the afterlife from their false gods, both for themselves and for those who just died.

See the Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible, the New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible, the Adam Clarke Commentary, and the Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible for more detailed analysis.

As no one with a Christian tattoo is trying to pacify a pagan deity, it is safe to say this verse is not relevant to us.

http://www.religioustattoos.net/Bible_Support/index.php

 

[Denique Coelum]

It's important to consider the context of Leviticus. It's also interesting that in Ezekiel the Lord says: v 12-And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. (Some translations put it "a ring in your nose and...") Many Christians argue that to get a piercing or tattoo is sin because we are the temples of God, but then proceed to put chemicals and high grams of fat into their bodies. Oh, well.

Ahh, that's a good point, one that I often think about. Chemicals and bad diet, it's just as bad.

The context of Leviticus 19:28

It seems every Christian anti-tattoo argument is based primarily on one thing...a single verse from Leviticus:

"You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh on account of the dead or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the LORD."

Does this verse really condemn all tattoos?

Read properly, no!

Leviticus 19:26-31 deals with pagan practices and God's prohibitions against adopting those practices. In verse 28, God is warning the Jewish people about a pagan practice at funerals, where pagans would mutilate/mark themselves to appease their false gods. The pagans hoped that by cutting themselves and marking images/symbols of idols on their bodies, that they would obtain favour in the afterlife from their false gods, both for themselves and for those who just died.

See the Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible, the New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible, the Adam Clarke Commentary, and the Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible for more detailed analysis.

As no one with a Christian tattoo is trying to pacify a pagan deity, it is safe to say this verse is not relevant to us.

http://www.religioustattoos.net/Bible_Support/index.php

That's a point, certainly... but then again, we have to think about testimony. Is is positive for someone to see an 'inked' Christian? Many people would find tattoos intimidating. The tattoo industry is, as far as I can see, dominated by goth and punk sort of people, the Doc Marten and pink mohawk brigade, and I'd always associate it with that in my view.

I think that for something to be positive, it has to be mentioned in Scripture in a positive way. Some people argue that the portions of Scripture referring to homosexuality are somehow redundant, but since there are no positive accounts of homosexuality in Scripture, I don't see how it can be looked on favourably by God. The same can be said for 'body art', notwithstanding the alternative translation of the verse you quote above.

Another point which I personally would find problematic with tattooing is that it's an outward sign which you can't hide. Not that you'd want to hide your Christianity, but I know I've been in certain situations and places where I shouldn't've been. In those situations, I was glad that I didn't have an outward sign of what I was, because it might cause others to think that my behaviour was acceptable for a Christian and lead them into error. And this could even be the case in situations where I'm doing nothing wrong but my behaviour could be misconstrued, and thus cause my brother to stumble (Romans 14 v 21). I believe that our faith should be displayed by God's work in us, not by man's work on our skin.

 

[farouk]

It's important to consider the context of Leviticus. It's also interesting that in Ezekiel the Lord says: v 12-And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. (Some translations put it "a ring in your nose and...") Many Christians argue that to get a piercing or tattoo is sin because we are the temples of God, but then proceed to put chemicals and high grams of fat into their bodies. Oh, well.

The context of Leviticus 19:28

It seems every Christian anti-tattoo argument is based primarily on one thing...a single verse from Leviticus:

"You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh on account of the dead or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the LORD."

Does this verse really condemn all tattoos?

Read properly, no!

Leviticus 19:26-31 deals with pagan practices and God's prohibitions against adopting those practices. In verse 28, God is warning the Jewish people about a pagan practice at funerals, where pagans would mutilate/mark themselves to appease their false gods. The pagans hoped that by cutting themselves and marking images/symbols of idols on their bodies, that they would obtain favour in the afterlife from their false gods, both for themselves and for those who just died.

See the Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible, the New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible, the Adam Clarke Commentary, and the Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible for more detailed analysis.

As no one with a Christian tattoo is trying to pacify a pagan deity, it is safe to say this verse is not relevant to us.

http://www.religioustattoos.net/Bible_Support/index.php

TheLords:

Motive must have a lot to do with it, I guess.

Like, I would be hard pressed to say that someone motivated to get a Bible ref. tattoo is 'wrong'.

Fact is, 18 is now the time when ppl go to the parlor for their first ink (I'm not recommending it); I can understand the thinking of a young man leaving home to go to work, or a preacher's daughter (etc.) going to college, when all their friends have gone to the parlor for their 18th birthday tattoo (some of them unusual and unsuitable for Christians, no doubt), they decide they want to make a witness of it.

(I don't have a problem with the earring thing, either.)

 

[farouk]

I'd love a tattoo. I'd have a scripture of some sort, possibly a massive crucifix across my chest. But I firmly believe that it is contrary to God's will for us to tattoo ourselves, so I would never get one, or encourage anyone else to.

DC:

If I could just pick up one or two points from a theoretical perspective rather than about your own personal likes and dislikes.

Seems that though you truly want to have a tattoo very much indeed (as do many people, as do many Christians, indeed), your not getting one seems to be linked with your current understanding of Scripture. Well, this is good (even though I don't necessarily interpret the passage in the same way, and even though I'm not in the business of encouraging people to get tattoos). It's good to have a Scriptural reason, not only picking out something to use, but rather on the basis of thinking we have an understanding of what Scripture is actually saying

All well and good.

Seems to me also that people in your situation, if their actual understanding of the pagan necromancy culture context of the Leviticus passage were to develop, they would, for witness reasons, be glad to go ahead and get a faith based tattoo.

Interestingly, the same passage says about men not trimming the corners of their beards; I guess we could all ask: how many preachers shave? I wonder if the overall context of the passage includes the idea of Old Testament Jews in the land under the law? but, again, I'm not in the business of trying to persuade people to get a tattoo or whatever. It's the exegesis aspect which especially interests me, I suppose.

I'd love to have a gold ring in my ear (roguish, piratical, a flavour of gypsy... mm...) but, as many have pointed out here, the body of the believer is a temple and should thus remain un-mutilated.

Again, I'm not into persuading people to wear earrings or not wear them, or whatever.

From a theoretical point of view, if it's not mutilation when women wear earrings, then at least from this angle it can hardly be mutilation when men wear them.

Even the Lord gave earrings to Zion in Ezekiel 16.12.

Again, in the spirit of Romans 14, it would be none of my business whether you get the earring you obviously really want to have, from what you say. It's good to have a Scriptural reason for what we do.

On the basis of what you say, I don't clearly see what specifically Scriptural obstacle exists to stop you going to the mall tomorrow and having it clicked in (though whether you or others will do it, is completely another matter, and the fact that something you think is Biblical has gotten into your mind why not, would apply to you, I guess).

Blessings.

 

[Denique Coelum]

Aye, farouk, it's just one of those things. I'd rather err on the side of caution. Plus, I know for a fact that my friends and family wouldn't be very happy if I got a tattoo or a piercing, so even on that basis, I'd rather not.

There's some very good points about scripture been brought up here, but I still can't quite feel it's right for me to alter my body. I just have a wariness about it. :dunno

 

[farouk]

Aye, farouk, it's just one of those things. I'd rather err on the side of caution. Plus, I know for a fact that my friends and family wouldn't be very happy if I got a tattoo or a piercing, so even on that basis, I'd rather not.

There's some very good points about scripture been brought up here, but I still can't quite feel it's right for me to alter my body. I just have a wariness about it. :dunno

DC:

Well, exactly.

In the end it's all about your own sense of doing what your conscience leads you to do, in the light of Scripture rather than what other people may try to decide on your behalf.

It would I suppose be all about how strong your witness motivation in that specific way is, before feeling led to go under the ink needle, wouldn't it. And people can be strongly motivated about witnessing without necessarily choosing to do it in this particular way. And of course, with some people, overall the witness motivation may be less strong, regrettably, and yet they may happen to have acquired a faith related tattoo, which does still 'speak' to people. So it has a lot to do with the individual, rather than just the presence or absence of the tattoo.

(From a practical point of view, of course, a tattoo is permanent, but the earring can always be taken out, when you are around certain people, if you wish, but again this is all about how you would feel about it. So it's a case of: Go for it!/Don't go for it — you make the decision entirely.)

 

[woodlandapple]

In regards to tattoos and witnessing:

I have 8 tattoos (all bar 1 I got before I was a christian, and the one I got after is a cross)

I also had Dreadlocks and I drive a twin turbo car.

I worked with youth at risk, and the combination of the three gave me instant cool factor, and meant I could build relations quickly. That the boys I worked with could see that being a christian is not always about stiff collars.

HOWEVER, fair or unfair, you do get judged.

The combination of those three meant that on several occassions I fet uninvited in church - to the point where some people on the welcoming would refuse to shake my hand. I left more churches in disgust than I care to mention.

think carefully about getting tattoos, it has more affect on your life than you might think (disclaimer: I actually still like my tatts and dont regret getting them. just think and pray carefully)

 

[Denique Coelum]

What's been said is very helpful, but there is just one thing that concerns me: in Christianity, there's one way, the way of the Lord.

Therefore, it must be either wrong to have tattoos on your body, or it must be acceptable to God.

There doesn't seem to be any consensus here, so someone must be in the wrong. I don't want this to turn into a huge debate, because really I think it's between the individual and God, but the fact remains that some of us are in error, either for getting tattoos or for believing it's wrong to get tattoos.

Something to pray about, I think.

 

[Tina]

Remember also who is giving you the tattoo. Almost every tattoo parlour I've visited look dark, spooky and oppressive with almost all of their tattoo images depicting evil. Like I've entered into a devil worshipping place or something .. :o... I've given up on the thought that if I ever wanted to get a decent tattoo, the more challenging part is to actually be able to find a decent tattoo artist in a decent place.

 

[Denique Coelum]

Remember also who is giving you the tattoo. Almost every tattoo parlour I've visited look dark, spooky and oppressive with almost all of their tattoo images depicting evil. Like I've entered into a devil worshipping place or something .. :o... I've given up on the thought that if I ever wanted to get a decent tattoo, the more challenging part is to actually be able to find a decent tattoo artist in a decent place.

That's one of my major issues with it too, Tina. These places don't look like establishments that a Christian should enter, never mind give money to.

I think that Josh Brown, the lead singer of Christian band 'Day of Fire' is also a tattoo artist. I thought I heard somewhere that he'll tattoo people while the band is on tour.

 

[farouk]

What's been said is very helpful, but there is just one thing that concerns me: in Christianity, there's one way, the way of the Lord.

Therefore, it must be either wrong to have tattoos on your body, or it must be acceptable to God.

There doesn't seem to be any consensus here, so someone must be in the wrong. I don't want this to turn into a huge debate, because really I think it's between the individual and God, but the fact remains that some of us are in error, either for getting tattoos or for believing it's wrong to get tattoos.

Something to pray about, I think.

DC:

Hi again. My two cents':

For central doctrinal and moral issues, things are clear cut in Scripture, usually.

But Scripture itself admits that there are many, many things about which the issue is not so much clear cut in absolute terms, but rather a matter for the individual conscience. Romans 14 is a passage to come to terms with, here.

So for you maybe, not having an earring might in your mind be a clear cut issue to you. For others it won't necessarily be.

Again, for you maybe, not having (say) a stylized 'John 3.16' reference tattooed might be clear cut to you. For others it won't necessarily be.

And okay, many parlors display their designs; I guess it could be asked: what else do you expect them to do? Following the same line of argument, are we expected not to use public washrooms in case someone sees some graffiti? (I'm not sure how close an analogy there is there, but you get my point.) There are also mobile tattoo artists. Does one debunk the whole art itself because of some of the designs that some people choose? In actual fact, tattoo artists do not tend to be 'pushy' or people who do a 'hard sell': it's unprofessional.

 

[theLords]

To those who are against tattoos using the argument that it/they/parlors looks "scary" or "evil" I ask you to examine your argument more closely. I've been treated far kinder and with more respect and dignity by tattooed up "punks" then I have been by followers of Christ.

That's something serious to consider.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

 

[ivorhughjarse]

I try not to quote scripture but Lev 19 speaks of not putting cut marks on our flesh and although we may argue the point of what it means I think God's word shows God's heart on matters. I have loads of tattoos and one is there for my mother who died. I never knew it could be viewed this way but many have a tattoo token for a dead friend especially the biker people that I associate with.

 

[Slider]

It seems to me that tattoos are against the law of Moses, but also are covered by grace through faith.

 

[theLords]

It seems to me that tattoos are against the law of Moses, but also are covered by grace through faith.

Since when has it been known, that any Gentile was present at the foot of Mt. Sinai, and entered into the Covenant of Moses? The Law of Moses is for the Jews, and all Christians post-Christ can only enter in through the New Covenant of His shed blood and broken body.

If you want to insist upon following the Law of Moses, then you cannot mix the fibers of your clothes or you will be found in rebellion to keeping the Law. Do you want to be under Law or do you want to be under Grace? You cannot have it both ways.

Leviticus 19:19
Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee.

 

[ivorhughjarse]

God's view on the matter must have changed then?

 

[theLords]

God's view on the matter must have changed then?

Who has Biblically stated God's view on the matter? There is nothing in this thread but the reasonings of men.

You want to live under the Law of Moses and reject the Covenant of Jesus Christ? By all means, you can do so, but you will also be judged by it and must submit yourself to the entirety of the Law of Moses. If you mix your diary and meet tonight at dinner, you will be guilty of sinning against the Law of Moses.

 

[theLords]

Leviticus 19:28
Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead,.... Either with their nails, tearing their cheeks and other parts, or with any instrument, knife, razor, &c. Jarchi says, it was the custom of the Amorites, when anyone died, to cut their flesh, as it was of the Scythians, as Herodotus (d) relates, even those of the royal family; for a king they cut off a part of the ear, shaved the hair round about, cut the arms about, wounded the forehead and nose, and transfixed the left hand with arrows; and so the Carthaginians, who might receive it from the Phoenicians, being a colony of theirs, used to tear their hair and mouths in mourning, and beat their breasts (e); and with the Romans the women used to tear their cheeks in such a manner that it was forbid by the law of the twelve tables, which some have thought was taken from hence: and all this was done to appease the infernal deities, and to give them satisfaction for the deceased, and to make them propitious to them, as Varro (f) affirms; and here it is said to be made "for the soul", for the soul of the departed, to the honour of it, and for its good, though the word is often used for a dead body: now, according to the Jewish canons (g), whosoever made but one cutting for a dead person was guilty, and to be scourged; and he that made one for five dead men, or five cuttings for one dead man, was obliged to scourging for everyone of them:

nor print any marks upon you; Aben Ezra observes, there are some that say this is in connection with the preceding clause, for there were who marked their bodies with a known figure, by burning, for the dead; and he adds, and there are to this day such, who are marked in their youth in their faces, that they may be known; these prints or marks were made with ink or black lead, or, however, the incisions in the flesh were filled up therewith; but this was usually done as an idolatrous practice; so says Ben Gersom, this was the custom of the Gentiles in ancient times, to imprint upon themselves the mark of an idol, to show that they were his servants; and the law cautions from doing this, as he adds, to the exalted name (the name of God): in the Misnah it is said (h), a man is not guilty unless he writes the name, as it is said, Leviticus 19:28; which the Talmudists (i) and the commentators (k) interpret of the name of an idol, and not of God:

I am the Lord; who only is to be acknowledged as such, obeyed and served, and not any strange god, whose mark should be imprinted on them.

(d) Melpomene, sive, l. 4. c. 71. (e) Alex. ab Alex. Genial. Dier. l. 3. c. 7. (f) Apud Servium in Virgil. Aeneid. 3.((g) Misn. Maccot, c. 3. sect. 5. (h) Ibid. sect. 6. (i) T. Bab. Maccot, fol. 21. 1.((k) Jarchi, Maimon. Bartenora, & Ez Chayim in Misn. ut supra. (g))
http://bible.cc/leviticus/19-28.htm

Galatians 6:17 (NSAB)
From now on let no one cause trouble for me, for I bear on my body the brand-marks of Jesus.

Gal 6:17 From henceforth 3064 let 3930 0 no man 3367 trouble 3930 me 2873 3427: for 1063 I 1473 bear 941 in 1722 my 3450 body 4983 the marks 4742 of the Lord 2962 Jesus 2424.

Strong's G4742 - stigma στίγμα
1) a mark pricked in or branded upon the body. To ancient oriental usage, slaves and soldiers bore the name or the stamp of their master or commander branded or pricked (cut) into their bodies to indicate what master or general they belonged to, and there were even some devotee's who stamped themselves in this way with the token of their gods

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4742&t=KJV

Isaiah 44:5 (NSAB)
"This one will say, 'I am the LORD'S'; And that one will call on the name of Jacob; And another will write on his hand, 'Belonging to the LORD,' And will name Israel's name with honor.

Isa 44:5 One shall say 559 , I [am] the LORD'S 3068; and another shall call 7121 [himself] by the name 8034 of Jacob 3290; and another shall subscribe 3789 his hand 3027 unto the LORD 3068, and surname 3655 [himself] by the name 8034 of Israel 3478.

Strong's H3789 - kathab כָּתַב
1) to write, record, enrol
a) (Qal)
1) to write, inscribe, engrave, write in, write on
2) to write down, describe in writing
3) to register, enrol, record
4) to decree
b) (Niphal)
1) to be written
2) to be written down, be recorded, be enrolled
c) (Piel) to continue writing

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3789&t=KJV

 

[Slider]

Since when has it been known, that any Gentile was present at the foot of Mt. Sinai, and entered into the Covenant of Moses? The Law of Moses is for the Jews, and all Christians post-Christ can only enter in through the New Covenant of His shed blood and broken body.

If you want to insist upon following the Law of Moses, then you cannot mix the fibers of your clothes or you will be found in rebellion to keeping the Law. Do you want to be under Law or do you want to be under Grace? You cannot have it both ways.

Leviticus 19:19
Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee.

I'm afraid I don't understand why you are asking me this. I said tattoos were against the law by were covered by grace.