TEACHING ARAMIC

[for_his_glory]

Some people are waiting for there messiah, the ruler over Israel, who is from the ancient of days, who will be born in the city of Bethlehem.

Micah 5:2

Jesus was born in Bethlehem, Jesus also said "before Abraham was I am".

How are these two verses translated in Aramic?. Maybe our friend Jonathan can answer.

I will let PUMBA2 answer this as I would love to hear his translation, but will also give my understanding of Micah 5:1-3 which is about the birth and the rejection of Messiah.

This is prophecy given to the Prophet Micah by God concerning what the Messiah will endure for the redemption of our sin by that of God's grace. This prophecy God gave to His Prophet to write was fulfilled through Christ Jesus as we read Matthew 27:26-54 and Mark 15:19.

The Christian belief is that we know by faith the finished works of Christ on the cross that God's salvation has come for both the Jews first and then the Gentiles who will believe in Jesus being that of God's spirit (Son of God) and His word manifested in human form to save the world from sin.

 

[for_his_glory]

about which verses are you talking about?

Micah 5:2

 

[Corn Pop]

I will let PUMBA2 answer this as I would love to hear his translation, but will also give my understanding of Micah 5:1-3 which is about the birth and the rejection of Messiah.

This is prophecy given to the Prophet Micah by God concerning what the Messiah will endure for the redemption of our sin by that of God's grace. This prophecy God gave to His Prophet to write was fulfilled through Christ Jesus as we read Matthew 27:26-54 and Mark 15:19.

The Christian belief is that we know by faith the finished works of Christ on the cross that God's salvation has come for both the Jews first and then the Gentiles who will believe in Jesus being that of God's spirit (Son of God) and His word manifested in human form to save the world from sin.

If Micah is a respected prophet then everyone should agree the messiah is the ancient of days, the King of Israel, would be born in Bethlehem, yet you never hear any people who have rejected Jesus waiting for a messiah to come from Bethlehem, but that's what the prophet said in Micah 5:2. No one even mentions Bethlehem.

On a side note, Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

 

[PUMBA2]

Maybe Jesus was born in Bethlehem, but Isaiah says that the Messiah should be "איש מכאבות וידוע חלי" ( Isaiah 53 3) and also " וַיהוָה חָפֵץ דַּכְּאוֹ הֶחֱלִי ". (Isaiah 53 10) means an ill person, and Jesus was crucified healthy.

 

[PUMBA2]

The English translation is not correct. חולי comes from the word חולה which means sick or ill.

 

[for_his_glory]

Maybe Jesus was born in Bethlehem, but Isaiah says that the Messiah should be "איש מכאבות וידוע חלי" ( Isaiah 53 3) and also " וַיהוָה חָפֵץ דַּכְּאוֹ הֶחֱלִי ". (Isaiah 53 10) means an ill person, and Jesus was crucified healthy.

What would be the English equivalent of those two words you gave here as we can not read them.

Isaiah 53:3, 10 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Jesus was despised and rejected of men as even still today. Jesus was a man of sorrows for a world that has turned away from God. He paid the debt for all our sin within His love He has for everyone. He was beaten beyond recognition and nailed to a cross as he would have not been very healthy physically as described in Matthew chapter 27.

Would you really believe that one who is beaten beyond recognition and nailed to a cross would be physically healthy?

 

[PUMBA2]

The meaning of the two words ידוע חולי means ידוע " known for" and חולי means illnesses. This is a person on is known in public for his illnesses. Jesus until he was crossed was a healthy person who therapy other ill people. He himself was not ill. As I said the English translation you have is not accurate. ידוע חולי doesn't mean man of sorrow but a sick man.

 

[PUMBA2]

חולי is not grief but illnesses

 

[JohnDB]

What would be the English equivalent of those two words you gave here as we can not read them.

Isaiah 53:3, 10 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Jesus was despised and rejected of men as even still today. Jesus was a man of sorrows for a world that has turned away from God. He paid the debt for all our sin within His love He has for everyone. He was beaten beyond recognition and nailed to a cross as he would have not been very healthy physically as described in Matthew chapter 27.

Would you really believe that one who is beaten beyond recognition and nailed to a cross would be physically healthy?

Copy and paste into Google translate...it works.

But understand that languages shift over the centuries...the term we know today as "love" was known as charity once upon a time in English history.
Hebrew and Aramaic were once living languages that shifted over time as well...and today is alive and well in Israel.

 

[for_his_glory]

Copy and paste into Google translate...it works.

But understand that languages shift over the centuries...the term we know today as "love" was known as charity once upon a time in English history.
Hebrew and Aramaic were once living languages that shifted over time as well...and today is alive and well in Israel.

Thanks John. I use to have a translator on my old laptop, but never got one for this one.

I know that languages shift over the centuries as English is probably the hardest language to learn as one word can take on many different meanings, especially seen within the discussions. That's why terminology is very important as we study scripture to try to get back to the original Hebrew and Aramaic that the letters were written in that make up the whole of the Bible. That's why I like the Open Bible as it gives the original meanings of a word at the end of a verse. Strong's Exhausted Concordance is also a good tool to use.

 

[for_his_glory]

The meaning of the two words ידוע חולי means ידוע " known for" and חולי means illnesses. This is a person on is known in public for his illnesses. Jesus until he was crossed was a healthy person who therapy other ill people. He himself was not ill. As I said the English translation you have is not accurate. ידוע חולי doesn't mean man of sorrow but a sick man.

In our English we can also define a man of sorrow with the word grieve, vexed, provoke and mourning as this is what people do to God when they do not walk in obedience to His commands.

An example of this:
Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

Isaiah 65:3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[for_his_glory]

PUMBA2 I'm not sure if I or anyone have ask this of you yet so I will ask. What does Messiah mean to you in terms of your understanding of who he will be and the purpose of His coming?

 

[for_his_glory]

The meaning of the two words ידוע חולי means ידוע " known for" and חולי means illnesses. This is a person on is known in public for his illnesses. Jesus until he was crossed was a healthy person who therapy other ill people. He himself was not ill. As I said the English translation you have is not accurate. ידוע חולי doesn't mean man of sorrow but a sick man.

Thank you

 

[PUMBA2]

PUMBA2 I'm not sure if I or anyone have ask this of you yet so I will ask. What does Messiah mean to you in terms of your understanding of who he will be and the purpose of His coming?

this is a big question but in generall I bealive that the messiah will solove the problem of the split we have in our world between the brain and the heart. in other words today the research think that all the problems will be soloved by understanding better our body function and especially the brain. but the messiah will prove that we have soul as well.

 

[for_his_glory]

this is a big question but in generall I bealive that the messiah will solove the problem of the split we have in our world between the brain and the heart. in other words today the research think that all the problems will be soloved by understanding better our body function and especially the brain. but the messiah will prove that we have soul as well.

There is no problem as God already told us we have a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here dust + breath/spirit from God = a living soul. When the flesh dies physically it returns back to the dust of the ground and our spirit is preserved with God for final judgment.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

God foretold in the Tanakh in the writings of Isaiah 53 that the coming of Messiah is to be the deliverer and the Savior (one who saves another) from sin as a Lamb being led to the slaughter, but also gave this prophecy in that the Jews would reject Him, but yet we see many Jews on the day of Pentecost that have accepted Jesus as their Savior and also received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, being the Spirit of God, Acts Chapter 2.

I will ask you, do the Jews reject Jesus as Messiah because they were and still are looking for a military and political leader sent from God that was/is to save Israel from their enemies as he would come from the line of David?
On a side note: It wasn't Messiah that would have any illness, but would be acquainted with illness among the people in Israel as he healed them through the power and authority of God.

 

[PUMBA2]

There is no problem as God already told us we have a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here dust + breath/spirit from God = a living soul. When the flesh dies physically it returns back to the dust of the ground and our spirit is preserved with God for final judgment.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

God foretold in the Tanakh in the writings of Isaiah 53 that the coming of Messiah is to be the deliverer and the Savior (one who saves another) from sin as a Lamb being led to the slaughter, but also gave this prophecy in that the Jews would reject Him, but yet we see many Jews on the day of Pentecost that have accepted Jesus as their Savior and also received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, being the Spirit of God, Acts Chapter 2.

I will ask you, do the Jews reject Jesus as Messiah because they were and still are looking for a military and political leader sent from God that was/is to save Israel from their enemies as he would come from the line of David?
On a side note: It wasn't Messiah that would have any illness, but would be acquainted with illness among the people in Israel as he healed them through the power and authority of God.

no. the bible says that the messiah himself will be ill. but as I said before, there opinions that will be 2 messiah, and only the first one will be ill.

 

[PUMBA2]

no. the bible says that the messiah himself will be ill. but as I said before, there opinions that will be 2 messiah, and only the first one will be ill.

the first one will not be a sun of judah but of yosef, and he is called messiah ben yosef משיח בן יוסף

 

[Corn Pop]

The Apostle Paul could understand Aramaic and scribal Hebrew and was a very highly educated religious scholar.

 

[for_his_glory]

no. the bible says that the messiah himself will be ill. but as I said before, there opinions that will be 2 messiah, and only the first one will be ill.

Could you show me where to find that in the Bible that the Messiah would be ill, thank you.

 

[for_his_glory]

the first one will not be a sun of judah but of yosef, and he is called messiah ben yosef משיח בן יוסף

Luke 1:26-38 Gabriel announces to Mary that of Christ's birth through her as she found favor in God. This all came about before her and Joseph were married so Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus.

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Notice in this verse that only Mary is mentioned as normally people would say the son of Joseph and Mary. Jesus had four half brothers, James, Joses, Juda and Simon and some sisters, but it's not known how many sisters he had or what their names were. The reason they were all half brothers an sisters is because Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus.

Mary's descent comes through David's son Nathan, Luke 3:31. To fulfill God's promise to establish David's throne forever, God honored Nathan by making him the ancestor of the promised King (Messiah) who would sit on David's throne throughout eternity, Luke 1:31-33. Mary having no brothers to inherit the throne the inheritance would come to her first son being Jesus.

This is why God found favor only in Mary as still being a virgin before she married. Joseph descent from David was broken in being heir to the throne of David as one of his ancestors named Jechonias (Coniah) was so evil God cursed him and his descendants from ever sitting on the throne of David, Matthew 1:11, 12; Jeremiah 22:24-30; 1 Chronicles 3:17. This doesn't mean that Joseph was evil, but means none of his children could ever sit on the throne of David.