Temporal Salvation?

[netchaplain]

Judas was predestined to reign with Christ and the other 11.

Jesus knew Judas would be a "false apostle" (2Co 11:13) before he was given to Him as an apostle (Jhn 6:64; 13:11)

Judas was given to Jesus to apostleship but not to salvation. Jesus lost him concerning the ministry of an apostle but not as a Christian (Jhn 17:12), for He knew he was of the devil (Jhn 6:70).

 

[jerry63935]

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

i am going to repeat something i said in this forum why before new admins,,, stop and read close what i am saying.. i have purposely yes purposely took the high road on this issue osas eternal security.
even when this post was made i said the osas issue will do nothing but generate flesh... the term temporary salvation come up . the Bible does not use them two words .
your not going to get a happy medium on the subject/ i am staying my Ground . there are scriptures to support both sides... this forum will be far better off not discussing osas . it goes no place .i have been in many forums and seen the discussion .it ends up in anger .. but dio as you please i am just a preacher man on a forum..

 

[netchaplain]

i said the osas issue will do nothing but generate flesh..

Carnal only to those who have yet to learn how to discuss Biblical doctrines with respect, kindness and patience. Not to pick on you personally, but we should be mature enough not to want to interfere with those who desire to continue to share with one another concerning all Bible doctrine. As long as Scripture is used and beliefs are honestly shared I see no reason why to hinder discussing anything Scripturally (in God's love - Eph 4:15) concerning what we presently believe is truth according to what God has shown us so far.

Out of concern for you I would suggest avoiding this thread if it continues to affect you at the level of disturbance you keep showing, or at least take a break and pray about it. So far, during the years on this site I've only seen concern that we share as close as possible what we believe to be truth; of which we all need to continue to learn until we're gone from here.

 

[jerry63935]

Carnal only to those who have yet to learn how to discuss Biblical doctrines with respect, kindness and patience. Not to pick on you personally, but we should be mature enough not to want to interfere with those who desire to continue to share with one another concerning all Bible doctrine.

hmm tell you what you keep trying and see how far it gets i sided with you the only thing that personally affects me is i been told i am wrong and others are right .. i am done

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Actually it is scripturally sound to say "believe in him" = Saved

Yes, "believe in him" = Saved, as long as you understand believing in him means trusting in his sacrifice for the payment of your sins, not simply knowing he is God's appointed High Priest and Sacrifice. Even the demons know and believe he is the Son of God:

"7He shouted at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God?" - Mark 5:7

They know well enough that he is the Son of God, but they do not trust in him. That believing does not save anybody.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What would be the sense in Him saving anyone if He already knows they would't choose to keep it?

The same sense in him giving one talent to the person who he knew would do nothing with it.

 

[netchaplain]

hmm tell you what you keep trying and see how far it gets i sided with you the only thing that personally affects me is i been told i am wrong and others are right .. i am done

Not necessarily wrong in all your beliefs, just in your manner of communicating a bit rough, like letting some things bother you too much, in my opinion.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Call it what you want, just don't oppose the scriptures that show us your possession of the life that never ends will be temporary if you stop believing:

"2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you." - 1 Corinthians 15:2

"we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence" - Hebrews 3:6

"he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel." - Colossians 1:22-23

"24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father." - 1 John 2:24

You have to keep believing to the very end to keep the life that never ends.

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB

Jesus is the source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him.

Regardless of what the “ requirments” are......Jesus said if one Believes in Him , they ALREADY HAVE ETENAL LIFE and shall NEVER Come Under Condemnation....That ‘s all I need to hear....The Onus , the Responsibility to “ Clean us Up” and get a person “ Fit for Heaven” is HIS Task.....our Task is to “Believe in the One He Sent”......He will do HIS PART, which is to “ SAVE TO THE UTTERMOST , ALL that come to Him through His Son, Jesus Christ”....
God is “ The Author and FINISHER of our Faith”......Had it not been for the Grace Of God, we would not have any Faith to BEGIN with! It is a GIFT—- GIVEN to those who do not WORK for .
Does it make any sense for God for Take Away what He gave you to begin with? Are we His “ Toys” to play with? Why the waste of time ?
God could not take back His Gift Of Salvation Even If He Chose To—— “ The Gifts Of God are IRREVOCABLE”......If God takes back His Gift, That would make Him a Liar and of course, “ it is impossible for God to lie”
I trust God to keep His Word and THAT is what Faith is..... “ The Righteous shall LIVE by FAITH”
By Grace you are Saved....through Faith. I can’t be Perfect, I know I can’t keep any Laws or Commands all the time and trying to do these things just reinforce these Truths— how about you?
There are many things that I wish I could do and can’t . Here is one thing I CAN do. I can BELIEVE and ACT on a Promise Of God .Others can concentrate on “ SIN”—— I m going to Concentrate on the SON......Acting on the Promises Of God ain't easy at times but at least it is POSSIBLE......Hanging One’s Body on a Promise Of God......Actually TRUSTING Him to keep His Word especially in those times where IF God “ doesn’t” Pull Through ( think David) Is more PLEASING to God than Gold . I have found that if I concentrate on Faith.....God will see to the other stuff...... “ The Man who FINDS LIFE will Find it by Trusting God”
God Bless....

 

[netchaplain]

The same sense in him giving one talent to the person who he knew would do nothing with it.

Pretty good example concerning the actual point, which was that the servant was "wicked," as manifested by the way he disrespected and mistrusted that his master's money could be of any use. We could also assume the "master" here represents Jesus, who knew Judas would use his apostleship for evil when He called him to it.

Also I think noteworthy is that "talent" represents opportunity for gifts and nothing to do with effecting salvation, it just demonstrated Judas was not saved:

"By these talents, special grace is not meant; for the parable speaks not of what was wrought in these servants, but of what was committed to their trust, and of what might lie useless by them, and be taken away from them; whereas special grace is internal, something implanted in man, and is an incorruptible seed, that can never be lost, or will be taken away."

- J Gill (https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/geb/matthew-25.html).

 

[Tradidi]

Does it make any sense for God for Take Away what He gave you to begin with?

That argument backfires with a loud bang!

Where does Scripture tell us that God will take away our free will once we become born again?

In other words, it is not God who takes away the free gift He gave us, it is man who can and often does throw it away. So don't try and blame God for it!

But if you wish to claim that man is unable to throw away the free gift of salvation, then you must believe that God has taken away man's free will. As you said, does that make any sense?

 

[JLB]

Jesus knew Judas would be a "false apostle" (2Co 11:13) before he was given to Him as an apostle (Jhn 6:64; 13:11)

Judas was given to Jesus to apostleship but not to salvation. Jesus lost him concerning the ministry of an apostle but not as a Christian (Jhn 17:12), for He knew he was of the devil (Jhn 6:70).

My point is Judas Iscariot was predestined, or it was predetermined that he and the other 11 apostles would reign and rule with Christ in the age to come, in the “regeneration“, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28


Why would Jesus have a false Apostle reigning with him and the other apostles?

If living on with Jesus to sit on a throne reigning with Him in the age to come is not a reference to salvation, then what is?




JLB

 

[JLB]

Regardless of what the “ requirments” are......Jesus said if one Believes in Him , they ALREADY HAVE ETENAL LIFE and shall NEVER Come Under Condemnation....

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

The condition for being His sheep and therefore receiving eternal life:

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.


The promise for meeting the condition:

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.


Hear mean hearken to do what is heard. IOW, hearing that results in following.


How long does a person have to follow Jesus Christ before they receive or inherit eternal life?


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:28-29

• everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Pretty good example concerning the actual point, which was that the servant was "wicked," as manifested by the way he disrespected and mistrusted that his master's money could be of any use. We could also assume the "master" here represents Jesus, who knew Judas would use his apostleship for evil when He called him to it.

Also I think noteworthy is that "talent" represents opportunity for gifts and nothing to do with effecting salvation, it just demonstrated Judas was not saved:

"By these talents, special grace is not meant; for the parable speaks not of what was wrought in these servants, but of what was committed to their trust, and of what might lie useless by them, and be taken away from them; whereas special grace is internal, something implanted in man, and is an incorruptible seed, that can never be lost, or will be taken away."

- J Gill (https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/geb/matthew-25.html).

The talent in the Parable of the Talent (Matthew 25:14-30) is the word of God (Compare Matthew 13:12 to Matthew 25:29).

The talent has everything to do with effecting salvation. It is through the word of God (the talent(s) given to us) that we hear the testimony of the Holy Spirit (1 John 5:10). Some do nothing with the talent of knowledge they are given, effecting no salvation, and are cast into hell when the Master returns and finds they did nothing with the knowledge of God they were given (Matthew 25:30).

What I find interesting is not that the Master gave the person who he knew would do nothing with the talent any talents at all, but the fact that he gave him only one. While the ones who he knew would put the knowledge of God to work he gave more talents.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Regardless of what the “ requirments” are......Jesus said if one Believes in Him , they ALREADY HAVE ETENAL LIFE...

Correct.
You receive the life that can never end the moment you believe.

and shall NEVER Come Under Condemnation..

...As long as they continue to believe.
The promises are addressed to those who presently believe, not to those who have never believed or who have stopped believing.

..That ‘s all I need to hear....

That is selective hearing.
You need to know all that the Bible says about eternal life.
The church is good at not heeding all the Bible says about receiving and keeping eternal life and choosing to only believe isolated snippets of scripture that fit their desired doctrinal constructs.

 

[netchaplain]

My point is Judas Iscariot was predestined, or it was predetermined that he and the other 11 apostles would reign and rule with Christ in the age to come, in the “regeneration“, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28


Why would Jesus have a false Apostle reigning with him and the other apostles?

If living on with Jesus to sit on a throne reigning with Him in the age to come is not a reference to salvation, then what is?




JLB

You got good inquiries! The Twelve, are Matthias who was numbered with the eleven apostles (Act 1:26). Judas was an apostate apostle and was never a believer, but a lover of money (Jhn 12:6), which always collates with "lovers of pleasures more than a lover of God" ( 2Ti 3:4).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

God could not take back His Gift Of Salvation Even If He Chose To—— “ The Gifts Of God are IRREVOCABLE”...

In context, you'll see that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable for the nation of Israel (Romans 11:28-29). It isn't talking about individual believers.
God made promises to Abraham on behalf of his descendants. Even though they have rejected those promises and gone to hell, God does not remove his promise of blessing from the Israelites that he made to Abraham. This has nothing to do with God not taking back the gift of salvation from an individual believer.
As I showed you, Matthew 18:21-35 explains how God will in fact take back the free gift of forgiveness from a person.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Correct.
You receive the life that can never end the moment you believe.


...As long as they continue to believe.
The promises are addressed to those who presently believe, not to those who have never believed or who have stopped believing.


That is selective hearing.
You need to know all that the Bible says about eternal life.
The church is good at not heeding all the Bible says about receiving and keeping eternal life and choosing to only believe isolated snippets of scripture that fit their desired doctrinal constructs.

For the Love Of God... could you choose another Picture ...That Evil Monster From “ No Country for Old Men” creeps me out so badly I can barely stand to read your posts because I know I have to view that Creepy Devil.....am I alone in my Disgust for this? Please consider it......

 

[JLB]

You got good inquiries! The Twelve, are Matthias who was numbered with the eleven apostles (Act 1:26). Judas was an apostate apostle and was never a believer, but a lover of money (Jhn 12:6), which always collates with "lovers of pleasures more than a lover of God" ( 2Ti 3:4).

Sorry Brother

Jesus was speaking to the twelve disciples which included Judas. Matthias wasn’t in the picture yet.


Matthias was selected by a “coin toss“; casting lots.


JLB

 

[JLB]

For the Love Of God... could you choose another Picture ...That Evil Monster From “ No Country for Old Men” creeps me out so badly I can barely stand to read your posts because I know I have to view that Creepy Devil.....am I alone in my Disgust for this? Please consider it......

You gotta love it.

Love you bro.

 

[JLB]

Eternal life is a promise, an earnest to the Christian 1 John 2:15; Eph 1:13. This life is only found 'in Christ" 1 John 5:11-12. The Christian does not possess eternal life itself in this life. As long as the Christian remains in Christ he continues to have the promise of eternal life.

Going back through the thread, I have to say, this is one of the best worded statements in this thread.





JLB