Temporal Salvation?

[LovethroughDove]

WOW!

If the lost don’t need salvation then who does?


JLB

He gives those of his who are lost, salvation.

You kept saying "need". I think there is a difference? I think?

 

[jerry63935]

But if the scriptures describe eternal life as being permanent, not temporary, then I think it is fair to say it is permanent life....even though those precise words for salvation are not used in scripture (as far as I know).

i agree on it does appear as permanent . but i will not use that word with Eternal life due to it not being scripture

 

[jerry63935]

But if the scriptures describe eternal life as being permanent, not temporary, then I think it is fair to say it is permanent life....even though those precise words for salvation are not used in scripture (as far as I know).


Eternal life is not temporary.
Your possession of the life that lasts forever may be temporary if you stop believing in Christ.
And so eternal life is temporary in that sense.

Salvation is eternal because Christ only had to perform his ministerial work in heaven one time for all time, not because
we can't lose the salvation that is eternal. If you stop believing in Christ you will in fact lose the salvation that never has to be renewed that you received when you first believed. That's why the author of Hebrews tells us to hold fast our confession of faith. He wouldn't say that if eternal life meant you can't lose it.

scripture with them words

 

[JLB]

He gives those of his who are lost, salvation.

You kept saying "need". I think there is a difference? I think?

The lost “need” to repent just as someone who has never been saved. They are classified as sinners; those who are separated from Christ.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

is that all you have is john 15 . it dont matter to me how you believe. i will oppose the term temporary salvation . if it is posted 100 times a hundred times i will oppose . if scripture dont say the word temporary. then it aint scripture

Scripture describes your possession of eternal life as temporary if you don't continue to believe in Christ after you get eternal life.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

scripture with them words

"...we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." - Hebrews 10:10-14

The ministry of Jesus is what is 'permanent' and lasts forever, not your possession of it (if you stop believing).

That's why the author says to hang on to such a fabulous ministry!

"14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, f Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess." - Hebrews 4:14

He wouldn't tell us to keep believing in such a great ministry if 'forever' in Hebrews 10 meant you can't lose it.
Forever means it doesn't have to be renewed, not that you can't lose it (through unbelief).

 

[LovethroughDove]

The lost “need” to repent just as someone who has never been saved. They are classified as sinners; those who are separated from Christ.


JLB

His sheep do repent, cause we listen. It is an eye-opening moment when you understand the magnitude of who he is. Really understand. You don't want to wander anymore without him guiding you.

 

[JLB]

is that all you have is john 15 . it dont matter to me how you believe. i will oppose the term temporary salvation . if it is posted 100 times a hundred times i will oppose . if scripture dont say the word temporary. then it aint scripture

I see that Jerry it doesn’t matter what the scriptures say, you just are not going to believe it.


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:1-2

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

How can a person who is removed from Christ, still have eternal life, Jerry?



There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:1-2


Eternal life is only found in Christ.


He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12



JLB

 

[JLB]

We are given salvation, we don't need it. Do you need something are are given? This has been my point with JLB.

You have been given Someone.

Salvation is Someone.

Eternal life is Someone.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6

• If you are disconnected from Him you are disconnect from eternal life.

• If you are removed from Him you are removed from eternal life.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:1-2

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Can you please explain how a person who is in Christ, then removed from Christ, still has eternal life?




JLB

 

[Sparkey]

During the war between the Hatfield's and McCoy's, was there not some great division?

Well, what if somebody were to be disavowed, or worse, dis-owned?!? The family ties would be broken.

But wait, some might say, "Did the Patriarch go back in time and erase the inception? Did he 'Nicodemus' his son and force him back into the womb for a Mulligan and/or 'do-over'?

Heaven forbid, no

Sometimes we are too literal, but alas, no, I do not have direct Scriptural support for that. But then, unless you speak Aramaic, neither do you.

 

[JLB]

His sheep do repent, cause we listen. It is an eye-opening moment when you understand the magnitude of who he is. Really understand. You don't want to wander anymore without him guiding you.

To become His sheep we repent.

If we wander away from Him, we must return to Him, or be brought back to Him and be reconciled, by repenting.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back

• let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death

JLB

 

[jerry63935]

I see that Jerry it doesn’t matter what the scriptures say, you just are not going to believe it.

really your making scripture say what you want . i am opposing the words temporary salvation. what your accusing me of your doing the same.. one word INTERPRETATION

 

[Sparkey]

really your making scripture say what you want .

Yeah!!

Watch out! Next he'll try harmonizing the gospels. Call a rose by any other name and it still has thorns.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Can you please explain how a person who is in Christ, then removed from Christ, still has eternal life?

You have 2 things going on in this statement. There is a born again eternal "forever" Spirit filled believers and they never are removed from Christ. John 14:15-17 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him ,for he lives with you and will be in you.

Then you have a person who is in the Word, John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Luke 8:11-12"This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the (word of God). Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

Look, really look........God is stating right here that only the good soil people remain in the Word and believe to the point of saved! Everyone else.....no........the devil took away the word from their hearts.....it wilted, died, got choked out. What other descriptive things? Anything but remained and grow

 

[JLB]

You have 2 things going on in this statement. There is a born again eternal "forever" Spirit filled believers and they never are removed from Christ. John 14:15-17 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him ,for he lives with you and will be in you.

Oh but Jesus does warn born again Spirit filled believers that they indeed can be removed from Him.


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:1-2

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

At some point you are going to have to move beyond just denying the plain and clear words of Jesus Christ, and answer some real questions with honesty.


How can a someone who is in Christ, (a clear reference to a born again Christian), be removed from Christ, and still have eternal life?


again


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Jesus plainly says if anyone does not remain “in Him” (a clear reference to born again Christians), they are gathered up and cast into the fire and burned.

• they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned

Here are the word for word, crystal clear, irrefutable instructions on how to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24





JLB

 

[LovethroughDove]

Oh but Jesus does warn born again Spirit filled believers that they indeed can be removed from Him.

No, they absolutely cannot if they are Spirit filled. That is why he said "give you another Counselor to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth"

How can a someone who is in Christ, (a clear reference to a born again Christian), be removed from Christ, and still have eternal life?

Nope, this is not reference to born agains. This is is showing how those that don't (Remain in the Word) are tossed out!

This is the last I'm gonna speak about it. For some reason you aren't understanding the Word=Jesus and if you remain in him you can end up with an eternal security. (the eternal security is the gift of the Holy Spirit). I don't want to argue about that because it could end up not good if I go back and forth.

 

[JLB]

No, they absolutely cannot if they are Spirit filled. That is why he said "give you another Counselor to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth"

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


Please read the verse before. It says the same exact word for word condition to remain in Christ... Keep His commandments.

Love and obey Him.

Here is the condition for receiving another Comforter ro remain with them forever.


“If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— John 14:15-16


again



And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
Acts 5:32

• so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.

Wasn’t John 14:15-16 spoken to Judas Iscariot?



JLB

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

1 Cor15:1-4 is where we find Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing......it was different because it was Given AFTER The Cross...... The Cross changed almost everything as it took humanity from a Law- Based Salvation to a Grace - Based Salvation
The Gospel That Paul preached had something in it that the Old Testament never contained —- The Power to Save.....That Power was made possible by a Secret That Nobody was aware of until Jesus revealed it to Paul ......it was a Secret that God had kept hidden for Millenia.That Secret was “ Christ IN us— The Hope Of Glory.....”
If we Trust in Paul’s Gospel we will get the Holy Spirit and Without “ That”, we are “ None Of His”......
More later.....maybe.....bed time now.......zzzzzzzzzzz.....

 

[Jethro Bodine]

.

There is a born again eternal "forever" Spirit filled believers and they never are removed from Christ. John 14:15-17 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth.

'Forever' is conditional on you continuing to believe.

"2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you." - 1 Corinthians 15:2

"we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence" - Hebrews 3:6

"he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel." - Colossians 1:22-23

"24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father." - 1 John 2:24

Even Calvinism says you have to believe to the very end to be saved. It just says you automatically always will believe, but we have the Galatians, the Corinthians, and the Hebrew church to show that's simply not true.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

i am opposing the words temporary salvation.

Call it what you want, just don't oppose the scriptures that show us your possession of the life that never ends will be temporary if you stop believing:

"2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you." - 1 Corinthians 15:2

"we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence" - Hebrews 3:6

"he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel." - Colossians 1:22-23

"24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father." - 1 John 2:24

You have to keep believing to the very end to keep the life that never ends.