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Testing the Spirits of Prophecy.

Jacob62

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Rev. 19:10 states "For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

All modern prophetic utterances are to be tested for their validity by testing their spirit. But, it is a false means to validate any modern prophecy by merely staying "We know the heart of this 'prophetess' to be unto Jesus, therefore her prophecy is of God." Testing a spirit does not mean vouching for a person's reputation and wether or not they appear sincere. Many sincere and well received modern prophets are entirely out to lunch in their fabrications.

None of the following are good tests of their spirit:

1.) An earnest and compelling verbal delivery.
2.) Rapid fire babbling using common spiritual terminology. Run on sentences.
3.) A far flung and intriguing perspective upon familiar themes.
4.) Standing bravely amidst a congregation.
5.) Squinting their eyes shut, and raising a hand heavenward.
6.) Ecstatic utterances.
7.) Praising and thanking God for His Word.
8.) Drawing listeners into a fantastic show time of imaginary possibilities in the Lord.
9.) Claiming to be breaking new ground, announcing a new movement, using the phrase "I have now been told to release this word."
10.) Paraphrasing the actual contents of Scripture while interjecting some fresh ideas.

Jesus let the contents of His Words convey their own power. His Word was unlike any other word spoken by men. He was not just giving a show time performance.

This list is far from complete, but does characterize how false prophets ramp up a performance. As well, just because the Name of Jesus is spoken by a prophet/prophetess does not mean they are speaking from God. Essentially, the more emotionally involved and driven a prophet appears to be, the more they should be dismissed.
 
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Rev. 19:10 states "For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

All modern prophetic utterances are to be tested for their validity by testing their spirit. But, it is a false means to validate any modern prophecy by merely staying "We know the heart of this 'prophetess' to be unto Jesus, therefore her prophecy is of God." Testing a spirit does not mean vouching for a person's reputation and wether or not they appear sincere. Many sincere and well received modern prophets are entirely out to lunch in their fabrications.

None of the following are good tests of their spirit:

1.) An earnest and compelling verbal delivery.
2.) Rapid fire babbling using common spiritual terminology. Run on sentences.
3.) A far flung and intriguing perspective upon familiar themes.
4.) Standing bravely amidst a congregation.
5.) Squinting their eyes shut, and raising a hand heavenward.
6.) Ecstatic utterances.
7.) Praising and thanking God for His Word.
8.) Drawing listeners into a fantastic show time of imaginary possibilities in the Lord.
9.) Claiming to be breaking new ground, announcing a new movement, using the phrase "I have now been told to release this word."
10.) Paraphrasing the actual contents of Scripture while interjecting some fresh ideas.

Jesus let the contents of His Words convey their own power. His Word was unlike any other word spoken by men. He was not just giving a show time performance.

This list is far from complete, but does characterize how false prophets ramp up a performance. As well, just because the Name of Jesus is spoken by a prophet/prophetess does not mean they are speaking from God. Essentially, the more emotionally involved and driven a prophet appears to be, the more they should be dismissed.
Anyone who advertises themselves as a "prophet to the nation" is false, because there is no such ministry under the New Covenant. Also, any prophecy has to be tested through consultation with the Scriptures, because the Holy Spirit will not say anything that has not already been said in the Scriptures.

Anyone qualifying a prophecy with "Thus says the Lord" or using the name of the Lord similarly, is taking the Lord's name in vain, because when the Lord actually speaks, it is Scripture, and He has not been inspiring Scripture since the 1st Century Apostles.

Contrary to the items you have put forward as tests, which I think are just anti-Charismatic thinking, the real test, which you have left out, is what is being said, not how it is being delivered. The real test is whether the prophecy is consistent with what has already been said in the Scriptures. If the prophecy is made up of new ideas or "revelation" that are not in Scripture, then the prophecy is either from the world, flesh, or the devil.

Jeremiah speaks of "dreamers" giving prophetic words from their own hearts and minds, and God says that He has not sent them. I would say that today's "prophets of the nation" fall into this category.
 

Jacob62

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Anyone who advertises themselves as a "prophet to the nation" is false, because there is no such ministry under the New Covenant. Also, any prophecy has to be tested through consultation with the Scriptures, because the Holy Spirit will not say anything that has not already been said in the Scriptures.

Anyone qualifying a prophecy with "Thus says the Lord" or using the name of the Lord similarly, is taking the Lord's name in vain, because when the Lord actually speaks, it is Scripture, and He has not been inspiring Scripture since the 1st Century Apostles.

Contrary to the items you have put forward as tests, which I think are just anti-Charismatic thinking, the real test, which you have left out, is what is being said, not how it is being delivered. The real test is whether the prophecy is consistent with what has already been said in the Scriptures. If the prophecy is made up of new ideas or "revelation" that are not in Scripture, then the prophecy is either from the world, flesh, or the devil.

Jeremiah speaks of "dreamers" giving prophetic words from their own hearts and minds, and God says that He has not sent them. I would say that today's "prophets of the nation" fall into this category.
I see you cannot give one operative example of using Scripture to test a spirit. Is this omission intentional, or an oversight?

Pentecostals err in their self assigned label, in that none of them can replicate even one feature of The Day of Pentecost in Acts 2. Nada. Nothing.

How valid then is their doctrine and ideology?
 
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I see you cannot give one operative example of using Scripture to test a spirit. Is this omission intentional, or an oversight?

Pentecostals err in their self assigned label, in that none of them can replicate even one feature of The Day of Pentecost in Acts 2. Nada. Nothing.

How valid then is their doctrine and ideology?
I am not accountable to you, so I don't have to justify my comments. Any novice in the prophetic knows that all prophecy has to be tested by a search of the Scriptures.

Also, I don't have discussions with anti-Pentecostals who just want to rubbish the movement.
 

Jacob62

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I am not accountable to you, so I don't have to justify my comments. Any novice in the prophetic knows that all prophecy has to be tested by a search of the Scriptures.

Also, I don't have discussions with anti-Pentecostals who just want to rubbish the movement.
Pentecostalism is indeed its own movement. So true.

Regards.
 

Jacob62

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A tour party was looking through Beethoven's home, and they notice his music coming from the toilet bowl in the bathroom. When they looked in, they discovered Beethoven's last movement.
Oh -Shonda-la-HOOO-Yah. I feel released.
 

Jacob62

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Sounds like you started speaking in tongues there old chap!! :approve
The one babble I could remember from about ten years worth listening to them. It was a fine education about human imagination "running with it."

I studied the language they use, their rhetoric devices, and how they manipulate people. The big AOG church we used to support is now largely empty and defunct. Four preachers in about 20 years.

Did you change your anointing, and decide to talk again? Lol. Tell me how you have actually used any Scripture to test the spirits. Nothing should be stopping you from answering with the facts.

Give the glory to God for it. Okay?
 
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The one babble I could remember from about ten years worth listening to them. It was a fine education about human imagination "running with it."

I studied the language they use, their rhetoric devices, and how they manipulate people. The big AOG church we used to support is now largely empty and defunct. Four preachers in about 20 years.

Did you change your anointing, and decide to talk again? Lol. Tell me how you have actually used any Scripture to test the spirits. Nothing should be stopping you from answering with the facts.

Give the glory to God for it. Okay?
Now I am happy to respond to your reasonable post.

Paul gave clear teaching that those who spoke publicly in tongues without intending it to be interpreted, "spoke into the air" and did nothing to build up faith in the meeting. If people do something that contradicts clear Scripture then are they not doing it in the flesh and not in the Spirit?

This may mean that the tongues you heard in church meetings may have been of the flesh and therefore devoid of meaning. But it might have had some meaning to God because Paul says that those who spoke in tongues, "give thanks well enough".

Tongues were never designed as some type of verbal force to create some type of effect or atmosphere in a meeting. That is more of sorcery than of the Holy Spirit. New Testament tongues consist of prayer to God in the Holy Spirit, not to show the spectators how spiritual one is, or how close to God they are, or even whether they are in the Spirit at all.

Concerning "babble", when I have heard people speaking Hindi, Mandarin, Cantonese, Cambodian, Latvian, Vietnamese, or Arabic (I heard them all in my job as Ministry of Justice victim advisor before I returned in 2017), it all sounded like babble to me.

The tongues that have been recorded and subjected to linguistic analysis, are not real tongues, because once it is spoken to be recorded, or when a recording device is secretly used in a Pentecostal meeting, the Holy Spirit separates Himself from it, and so the language becomes meaningless sounds. This is why the recorded tongues have always failed linguistic analysis.

So that's a bit of background information to make you aware of my opinion about it.

I am reluctant to use Scripture to "prove" what I am saying, because it may make it appear that I am "right" and everyone else is "wrong". Everything I say is just my opinion and not equivalent to Holy Scripture.

The testimony of Jesus being the spirit of prophecy means to me that true prophecy always points people to Christ. "Faith comes by hearing the Word of God" (Romans 10:17), so if a prophecy is of the Holy Spirit then it must increase faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross for us and that we have eternal life through His resurrection. Any prophecy that points to faith in a creature rather than the Creator is false. This means that prophecies promising wealth, prosperity, fame, promotion to high spiritual levels, is pointing to a created person and away from the Creator.

As I said before, Prophecies "to the nation" are false, because national prophets ceased at the death of John the Baptizer. Agabus was a prophet to the Body of Christ, and not to the Roman Empire. The ministry of prophet is one of the five-fold ministries for the building up of the Body of Christ, and for the ministry to be effective it had to be recognised by the whole Body of Christ, which is impossible in our divided, denominational churches.

There is the thought that when Paul talked about prophecy in 1 Corinthians 14, he included preaching and teaching, and not just the AOG version of "giving prophecies".

I do have a Pentecostal theology, based on the Methodist Holiness model and not the AOG or WOF model, which I think are now corrupted with pagan Hindu practices and Occult manifestation. I also have a foundation in English Puritan theology which has a foundation of Sola Scriptura. I believe in the continuation of the Spiritual gifts as "tools" given to the Body of Christ to strengthen and build it up. The sad thing about the modern WOF and AOG use of it tends toward non-Biblical misuse of it, especially by those with a "power and control" attitude in order to manipulate vulnerable believers into thinking that these "mis-users" have a special ear to the voice of the Holy Spirit that the common "sheep" don't have. These are the ones who use personal prophecy and words of knowledge to gain spiritual control and to make disciples for themselves and not for Christ.

How's that for something to chew over?
 

Jacob62

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Now I am happy to respond to your reasonable post.

Paul gave clear teaching that those who spoke publicly in tongues without intending it to be interpreted, "spoke into the air" and did nothing to build up faith in the meeting. If people do something that contradicts clear Scripture then are they not doing it in the flesh and not in the Spirit?

This may mean that the tongues you heard in church meetings may have been of the flesh and therefore devoid of meaning. But it might have had some meaning to God because Paul says that those who spoke in tongues, "give thanks well enough".

Tongues were never designed as some type of verbal force to create some type of effect or atmosphere in a meeting. That is more of sorcery than of the Holy Spirit. New Testament tongues consist of prayer to God in the Holy Spirit, not to show the spectators how spiritual one is, or how close to God they are, or even whether they are in the Spirit at all.

Concerning "babble", when I have heard people speaking Hindi, Mandarin, Cantonese, Cambodian, Latvian, Vietnamese, or Arabic (I heard them all in my job as Ministry of Justice victim advisor before I returned in 2017), it all sounded like babble to me.

The tongues that have been recorded and subjected to linguistic analysis, are not real tongues, because once it is spoken to be recorded, or when a recording device is secretly used in a Pentecostal meeting, the Holy Spirit separates Himself from it, and so the language becomes meaningless sounds. This is why the recorded tongues have always failed linguistic analysis.

So that's a bit of background information to make you aware of my opinion about it.

I am reluctant to use Scripture to "prove" what I am saying, because it may make it appear that I am "right" and everyone else is "wrong". Everything I say is just my opinion and not equivalent to Holy Scripture.

The testimony of Jesus being the spirit of prophecy means to me that true prophecy always points people to Christ. "Faith comes by hearing the Word of God" (Romans 10:17), so if a prophecy is of the Holy Spirit then it must increase faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross for us and that we have eternal life through His resurrection. Any prophecy that points to faith in a creature rather than the Creator is false. This means that prophecies promising wealth, prosperity, fame, promotion to high spiritual levels, is pointing to a created person and away from the Creator.

As I said before, Prophecies "to the nation" are false, because national prophets ceased at the death of John the Baptizer. Agabus was a prophet to the Body of Christ, and not to the Roman Empire. The ministry of prophet is one of the five-fold ministries for the building up of the Body of Christ, and for the ministry to be effective it had to be recognised by the whole Body of Christ, which is impossible in our divided, denominational churches.

There is the thought that when Paul talked about prophecy in 1 Corinthians 14, he included preaching and teaching, and not just the AOG version of "giving prophecies".

I do have a Pentecostal theology, based on the Methodist Holiness model and not the AOG or WOF model, which I think are now corrupted with pagan Hindu practices and Occult manifestation. I also have a foundation in English Puritan theology which has a foundation of Sola Scriptura. I believe in the continuation of the Spiritual gifts as "tools" given to the Body of Christ to strengthen and build it up. The sad thing about the modern WOF and AOG use of it tends toward non-Biblical misuse of it, especially by those with a "power and control" attitude in order to manipulate vulnerable believers into thinking that these "mis-users" have a special ear to the voice of the Holy Spirit that the common "sheep" don't have. These are the ones who use personal prophecy and words of knowledge to gain spiritual control and to make disciples for themselves and not for Christ.

How's that for something to chew over?
That is nothing new to me, not requiring any need to chew on it.

The line of reasoning above confirms how impotent and of little use are the so called tongues, today. In Scripture they were never shown for the use of healing, for decision making, for unity of doctrine, or for ministry of any kind in the body. Acts 2 shows them only as a sign to the foreign speaking Jews in Jerusalem, and in Acts 11 as a sign for Gentiles. Paul later said they were a sign to Unbelievers in the Church.

"Edify" is defined as existing to instruct, improve, enlighten, uplift morally, build, and establish. Oddly, after being used in Acts as a sign to Jews, then to Believing Gentiles, then to unbelieving church visitors, the content of tongues is never recorded in Scripture.

Tongues are not needed to worship God in a more meaningful way. They accomplish nothing now after appearing in Acts.
 
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That is nothing new to me, not requiring any need to chew on it.

The line of reasoning above confirms how impotent and of little use are the so called tongues, today. In Scripture they were never shown for the use of healing, for decision making, for unity of doctrine, or for ministry of any kind in the body. Acts 2 shows them only as a sign to the foreign speaking Jews in Jerusalem, and in Acts 11 as a sign for Gentiles. Paul later said they were a sign to Unbelievers in the Church.

"Edify" is defined as existing to instruct, improve, enlighten, uplift morally, build, and establish. Oddly, after being used in Acts as a sign to Jews, then to Believing Gentiles, then to unbelieving church visitors, the content of tongues is never recorded in Scripture.

Tongues are not needed to worship God in a more meaningful way. They accomplish nothing now after appearing in Acts.
Yep. That's what many believe about tongues all right. But I don't have to believe what they believe, because I'm not under anyone's authority or "covering" so I can believe what I read in the Bible = especially all of 1 Corinthians 14 instead of selected verses from it.
 

Jacob62

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Yep. That's what many believe about tongues all right. But I don't have to believe what they believe, because I'm not under anyone's authority or "covering" so I can believe what I read in the Bible = especially all of 1 Corinthians 14 instead of selected verses from it.
In other words, there is now no reason to believe tongues accomplish anything for the purposes of God. I agree.
 

JLB

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Rev. 19:10 states "For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

All modern prophetic utterances are to be tested for their validity by testing their spirit. But, it is a false means to validate any modern prophecy by merely staying "We know the heart of this 'prophetess' to be unto Jesus, therefore her prophecy is of God." Testing a spirit does not mean vouching for a person's reputation and wether or not they appear sincere. Many sincere and well received modern prophets are entirely out to lunch in their fabrications.

None of the following are good tests of their spirit:

1.) An earnest and compelling verbal delivery.
2.) Rapid fire babbling using common spiritual terminology. Run on sentences.
3.) A far flung and intriguing perspective upon familiar themes.
4.) Standing bravely amidst a congregation.
5.) Squinting their eyes shut, and raising a hand heavenward.
6.) Ecstatic utterances.
7.) Praising and thanking God for His Word.
8.) Drawing listeners into a fantastic show time of imaginary possibilities in the Lord.
9.) Claiming to be breaking new ground, announcing a new movement, using the phrase "I have now been told to release this word."
10.) Paraphrasing the actual contents of Scripture while interjecting some fresh ideas.

Jesus let the contents of His Words convey their own power. His Word was unlike any other word spoken by men. He was not just giving a show time performance.

This list is far from complete, but does characterize how false prophets ramp up a performance. As well, just because the Name of Jesus is spoken by a prophet/prophetess does not mean they are speaking from God. Essentially, the more emotionally involved and driven a prophet appears to be, the more they should be dismissed.


Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
1 Corinthians 14:29-33




again


But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Matthew 18:16



The testing of a prophets word is judged by two or three,
“others” judging refers to more than one.






JLB
 

Jacob62

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Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
1 Corinthians 14:29-33




again


But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Matthew 18:16



The testing of a prophets word is judged by two or three,
“others” judging refers to more than one.






JLB
Speak your prophecy, and we then will judge it. Put your finest words into action, rather than just boasting about them from the past.
 

JLB

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Speak your prophecy, and we then will judge it. Put your finest words into action, rather than just boasting about them from the past.
?

I gave scripture in response to your question.


Where did I boast about prophecies from the past?


What thread? What post number?


Please don’t misrepresent or misquote me or other members.


2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.

It is a violation to misquote or misrepresent another member. Do not flood a forum or thread with similar posts, or many posts in succession. Allow others a chance to speak and be heard. If you are responding to multiple posts in the same thread, please consider using the multi-quote feature. Please refrain from taking a thread too far off topic.



I see you cannot give one operative example of using Scripture to test a spirit. Is this omission intentional, or an oversight?




JLB
 

Serving Zion

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Speak your prophecy, and we then will judge it. Put your finest words into action, rather than just boasting about them from the past.
Prophecy is not the same as talking in tongues. Prophecy is also not the act of plucking something out of thin air. True prophecy is repeating to the world what we have perceived of the word of God. That means that any prophecy given by God must have originated from God, revealed by a person who knows His voice. Therefore, the testimony of Jesus Christ, or the witness if Him, is the spirit if prophecy "for wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them".
 

Elihoenai

 
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Deuteronomy 18:20-22 King James Version

20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.


Elohim's/God's instructs on Prophets.
 
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