The 7 Deadly Sins Of The Christmas Tree

[tabcom]

1. I don't treat a christmas tree as an object of worship, thus it serves a different purpose for me

Could you please define worship for me?

 

[Rick W]

Do people worship these tabcom?

 

[tabcom]

Do people worship these tabcom?

I'm not following you, could you please be more specific?

 

[Rick W]

What holiday does that pic remind you of and why?

 

[tabcom]

Rick, I have no idea what you are driving at. Are you always accustom to answering questions with more questions? Is it possible for you to make a declarative statement as to what worship means?

 

[Gabe]

tabcom, as it's you who consider's owning a Christmas Tree as idolatrous, it should be you giving us your definition of 'worship'. This thread was started by you and if we do not fully understand your position, then how are we expected to defend ours?

What is you definition of 'worship'?

 

[tabcom]

With respect to the definition of 'worship' . . .

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worship

2: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power ; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem


To paraphrase David Arthur DeSilva’s “An Introduction to the New Testamentâ€Â:

It is not the mere worshiping of the tree that people are doing; rather, the tree represents aspects of the human social enterprise – economic power, military power, political power, family and social networking, and the like. Secular (Pagan) society becomes its own object of worship.

 

[tabcom]

5. Idolatry is a matter of the heart, . . . If I decorate the tree it is to adorn it for eye pleasure.

:biglol

This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time -- and I've been blogging about the Christmas tree for years.

The English word 'idolatry' comes from the Greek word 'Eidololatreia'.

It is a construction of the word eido -- to see (literally or figuratively).
http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/1492.htm

And the word latreuo -- ministration of God, i.e. Worship -- (divine) service.
http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/2999.htm

Let's see how the Bible defines Idolatry . . .

Luke 12:15 And he (Jesus) said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Covetousness = Idolatry

covetousness- greek: pleonektes- to want more; greediness

Idolatry = dedicating or setting apart that what you see for the purpose of wanting more

Every man is covetous by nature until God deals with him and causes him to repent (turn from self to God). The word devil (daimon) means to distribute fortunes. A covetous man who "wants more" has a devil. Covetousness is the idolatrous worship of self. It is an idolatry as evil as falling down before Baal, the christmas tree, the golden calf, or any one of the ancient pagan deities of Babylon.

 

[Rick W]

Rick, I have no idea what you are driving at. Are you always accustom to answering questions with more questions? Is it possible for you to make a declarative statement as to what worship means?

You know exactly what I'm driving at.
We use the Christmas tree during celebration of Christmas and others use the pumpkin during celebration of Halloween. People no more worship the Christmas tree than they do the pumpkin.

 

[mondar]

I was just wondering who borrowed from who?

I must admit to being about as interested in this discussion as I am in the discussion my wife wants to have every year of which kind of tree looks best. Nevertheless, I found Ricks comment here interesting. I am going to admit that I dont really care about Pagan backgrounds to Christmas, but am interested in Ricks comments.

My first thoughts are of certain OT passages in Jeremiah, how every Israelite went up and worshipped the queen of heaven on every green hill, or under every green tree. I believe the tree was a symbol of fertility in Ancient Canaanite mythology. The trouble is that the tree symbol was never a conifer (evergreen). It was always a deciduous(non-evergreen) kind of tree.

What did the tree symbolize in Canaanite mythology? Did the evergreen tree ever represent anything in some pagan mythology? If it did, what was the concept communicated to the pagan mind by the evergreen tree?

As Rick was suggesting by his question, neither should we assume that the Christmas evergreen tree has origins in pagan mythology. So called Christians are not the only ones to use synchronicity in their religion. Polytheistic religions can easily adapt to Christian extra biblical customs.

Well, I find making fun of the fundies to be distasteful, and hope my attempt at humor below is not seen as nasty to those fundamentalists who might object to my Christmas practices.

SEVEN DEADLY SINS IN CHRISTMAS.
1 Never tell sit on the lounge chair watching TV and tell your wife she missed a spot on the tree with the lights when she is decorating. Hey bub, you'll be wearing the tree!
2 Never fail to get your sisters dog a present too. (sheesh---mondar rolls his eyes and gets barking mad at his sisters dumb dog--excuse pun)
3 Never boo santa, unless you live in Philadelphia
4 Never assume Santa is a man. Christmas is a big fuzzy, social, nurturing time for shopping, baking, and home decoration. Only a woman could pull that off!
5 Never go to bed before 2AM Christmas eve because assembly is required.
6 Well, someone help me here, I need two more and cannot think of any more sins. You dont want me in trouble for Christmas once again do you?:
7 Help?

 

[Gabe]

tabcom:

I've read the definition you provided. I do not see how, using this definition; owning or decorating a Christmas tree can equal worshiping a Christmas tree. Please explain.

If Idolatry = corvetness and Covertness = wanting more; how does this relate to the Christmas tree?

I am also interested in what you have to say in answer to Rick's question; Do people worship pumpkins on Halloween? Let's not stop at Halloween, how about Thankgiving; do people worship the Turkey on Thankgiving? Or do people worship the eggs they decorate at Easter?

I've been blogging about the Christmas tree for years.

:biglol THAT is by far the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

 

[MISFIT]

[quote="Gabriel Ali":14ji04qa]....It seems that everyone is out to prove anything remotely Christian is actually pagan in origin; including Christ's virgin birth. It's a shame.

Those whacky Fundies. They're a hoot. [/quote:14ji04qa]

Again I agree!

 

[John]

Erm no. I never said the virgin birth was pagan i said it was scientifically impossible and it is.

 

[Gabe]

John, i wasn't referring to anything you have said

 

[John]

John, i wasn't referring to anything you have said

I know, i was responding to St Francis post about "fundies", because we had an argument about the virgin birth recently, i think St Francis is trying to attack my credibility.

Edit: Hmmm, i got an ideal :eyebrow

 

[Rick W]

I've gotten reports about slurs being posted referencing St Francis's denomination and I see he's doing the same.
I'm not partial to the word "fundie" either. :gah

 

[Vic C.]

... Edit: Hmmm, i got an ideal :eyebrow

Yes, so do I. totopic

 

[cyberjosh]

5. Idolatry is a matter of the heart, . . . If I decorate the tree it is to adorn it for eye pleasure.

:biglol

This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time -- and I've been blogging about the Christmas tree for years.

The English word 'idolatry' comes from the Greek word 'Eidololatreia'.

It is a construction of the word eido -- to see (literally or figuratively).
http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/1492.htm

...

Covetousness = Idolatry

covetousness- greek: pleonektes- to want more; greediness

Idolatry = dedicating or setting apart that what you see for the purpose of wanting more

Every man is covetous by nature until God deals with him and causes him to repent (turn from self to God). The word devil (daimon) means to distribute fortunes. A covetous man who "wants more" has a devil. Covetousness is the idolatrous worship of self. It is an idolatry as evil as falling down before Baal, the christmas tree, the golden calf, or any one of the ancient pagan deities of Babylon.

What you seem to be discussing is lust. I do not have "tree lust" if that is what you are concerned about. And just because you can derive an etymology of the the word idolatry from a meaning of 'to see' doesn't mean that things pleasing to the eye are wrong. God made many things in creation that are pleasing to see.

You asked me to define worship, and as for practical examples I gave you some when I said I do not hug, kiss, bow down to, or dote on my Christmas tree. I was being partly tongue in cheek, but in essence I do not dedicate a portion of my affection to the tree and I do not get the tree out of necessity or sense of duty. I wouldn't lose any sleep over not having a Christmas tree. The room would just not be as decorated as it often is at Christmas. But I could have Christmas in a poverty stricken third-world country with family and friends with no material possessions present at all, not even gifts, and it still be Christmas for me with the observance of and joy concerning Christ's advent and just loving my family and friends, because I would truly say that love is the reason for the season (John 3:16; 1 Cor. 13). Traditions are not bad in themselves and you should not try to be legalistic in telling people what they should or should not do when it comes to Christmas trees. If you are concerned about someone going off the deep end and worshiping the tree then just say so.

Now you did mention something about secular culture being the thing that could be said to be the thing worshiped, but you can say the same for McDonald's if someone has a vice in going to McDonald's all the time. The Bible tells us that we should be in the world but not of the world, and that is a balance that everyone must strike. But we have God given freedoms and also brains, not to mention the Holy Spirit in us, that can tell us when we step over the line. As I said it is a matter of the heart and also conscience, and neither the Holy Spirit nor my conscience in me condemns me for having a Christmas tree around Christmas time. It is as simple as that.

Try to appreciate some of your God given freedoms more and perhaps you will not find so many issues leading to legalistic bondage, and I'm being sincere in saying that. I'm sure you are sincere in your beliefs on Christmas as well, and I've just about heard every objection that can be made, but we should realize that we are not in bondage to past traditions and can make a potentially bad observance an acceptable or good one if we observe it as unto the Lord, as was Paul's main point with foods, etc. Anyway, pray over it and I hope that God will allow you to realize what freedoms we have in Christ, and that even our basic traditions can be pleasing to God is done with thanks unto God. "For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving" (1 Timothy 4:4).

Sincerely,

Joshua

 

[Rick W]

I still want to know what the difference is between a Christmas tree and a Halloween pumpkin.

 

[John]

I still want to know what the difference is between a Christmas tree and a Halloween pumpkin.

One is green,tall and is associated with Christmas. The other is orange, short and fat and is associated with Halloween. :rolling