The 7 Trumpets are the Same as the 7 Bowls

[Quasar]

Thread subject

Hi Darrell,

You wrote:

>>>A book written 4,000 years after Daniel lived.

The war in Ezek. 38&39 is the red horse.And the Jews will burn the weapons for 7 years, Then at the middle of the 70th week they will flee into the mountains.

The 70th week begins at the sealing of the 144,000, not at the rapture.

God himself taught me the scriptures not a man or a church.<<<


Q: Not that it makes any significant difference, but the book of Revelation was written closer to little more than 511 years after Daniel's demise. When Artaxerxes gave the decree to rebuild Jerusalem in 445 BC [approximately], until John wrote Revelation in 66 A.D. [approximately], covers the 511 years. There are some who believe Revelation was written later, in 95 A.D. [approximately], which would make it only 540 years after Daniel.

He was a very old man when he made the prophecy of the 70 weeks of years, as he had been exiled to Babylon as a young man back in 604 B.C. by Nebuchadnezzar, when he could have been no more than a teenager.
So he would have been close to 100 years old, in 515/516 B.C. when he made that prophecy. See Dan.9:2-3.

The Scripture in Ez.38/39 about Gog and Magog have nothing at all to do with the red horseman in Rev.6:4, which relates to the four horseman of the apocalypse and the overview of the tribulation. Much the same as you read in Mt.24:4-14.

There are expositors who believe that scenario will take place shortly before the rapture and the tribulation take place, because of it taking Israel seven months to bury all the dead bodies and seven years to use up all the weapons they captured from Gog and Magog as fuel.

Other expositors believe it is a scenario that takes place after Satan is released from his 1,000 year imprisonment in the Abyss, in Rev.20:7-10.

As for the 144,000 Israelis, they do not enter the scene until just before the seventh seal which contains the seven trumpet judgements. You are right about the 144,000 not appearing at the rapture. According to the Scriptures, the rapture will take place just before the Antichrist is revealed, who triggers the tribulation, as seen in Dan.9:27, in 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 7-8. The Antichrist is the first rider of the four horseman of the apocalypse, in Rev.6:2, the very first seal. The 144,000 are placed on the earth by God, to take the place of the raptured Church, to preach the Gospel to all those who will be left behind.

Your bro in Christ,

Quasar

 

[lecoop]

lecoop

Where in Daniel does it say that the book of Rev. is only 7 years long.

A book written 4,000 years after Daniel lived.

The war in Ezek. 38&39 is the red horse.And the Jews will burn the weapons for 7 years, Then at the middle of the 70th week they will flee into the mountains.

The 70th week begins at the sealing of the 144,000, not at the rapture.

God himself taught me the scriptures not a man or a church.

As for the people that live after the mid trib are the ones that will not turn to God for any reason, even thou the two witnesses are preaching to them about God, they are also the ones that go to Armageddon and try to shoot Christ down at his coming. Most of these people will be demon possessed if not all.

Every single scripture has to fit or it is wrong.

There is only one absolute truth and all else is a lie!!!!!

Hi Darrell, [I named my eldest son Darrell, and spelled his name the same way]. As for the book of Revelation, it isn't what is 7 years long, it is the tribulation within it that is, which is also found in Daniel 9:24-27.

Thought you might be interested in the formula for the 70 Weeks of Daniel, as follows:


Seventy Weeks Are Determined Upon Thy People!

The following is a complete analysis Of the amazing prophecy found in the book of Daniel. We will begin in Dan.9:24 where the angel Gabriel is giving this prophecy to Daniel, the prophet.

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

1. Referrence here is to what God has decreed upon Daniel's people, Israel. (It has nothing at all to do with the church!)

2. See Gen.29:27 to explain that this biblical term of "one week" equals seven years. So the 70 weeks here, represents a total of 490 years, or 7 X 70.)

Vs.25. "Know, therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; (49 + 420 + 14 = 483 years, covering 69 of the 70 weeks,) the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." (See Neh.1:6.)

According to the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England, the exact date of King Artaxerxes, of Persia, gave the decree for some of the Israeli exiles to return to Jerusalem on March 14, 445 BC.

From the 69 weeks (Of years) from above, or 483 years, multiplied by the 360 days of the Hebrew year, equals 173,880 days.

Vs.26. "And after threescore and two weeks (Following the first 7 weeks, or 49 years to complete the rebuilding of the second temple and to restore and build Jerusalem.) shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself; (This culminates at a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years from the Persian King, Artaxerxes Decree on March 14th, 445 BC.) and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end of it shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

After Jesus has been crucified, the Roman (prince) Titus comes with his legions and destroys Jerusalem and the second temple in 70 AD, after bitter fighting, scattering Israel and the Jewish people into their diaspora.

To establish the time Jesus began His ministry, and approximate age, we find the evidence in Luke 3:1 and 3:23.

Lk.3:1. "Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilot being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip, tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Thrachonitis and Lysanias, the tetrarch of Abilene, Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness."

Which brings us to 29 AD and Jesus is about 30 years of age.

Lk.3:23. "And Jesus Himself began to be about 30 years of age, (When all Jewish priests begin their priesthood.) being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, who was the son of Heli,"

Back to Daniel's prophecy of 70 weeks of years decreed upon his people, for a moment. We have determined as we fast close on all of the 69 weeks, 483 years, and 173,880 days in the Hebrew 360 day year as to exactly where it will take us.

Jn.12:12-13. "On the next day many people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees and and went forth to meet Him, and cried Hosanna! Blessed is the King of Israel, that cometh in the name of the Lord." April 6th 32 AD. (According to the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.)

Exactly 173,880 days from King Artaxerxes of Persia, decree of March 14,445 BC. (Based on the 360 day Hebrew year.) But does that make any difference at all, rather than a 365 day year? No! It doesn't!

1. 32 years (AD) X 365 days in our year = 11,680 days.
2. 445 years (BC) X " " " " " = 162,425 " .
3. Total 174,425 days divided by 365 = 477 years.
4. Plus 24 days between March 14 (445 BC) and April 6 32 AD------------------------------------= 477 years
24 days
5. Subtract one year because there is no year zero between 1 BC and 1 AD.--------------------= 476 years
24 days
6. 476 years
X365 days = 173,740 days
+24 = 173,764 Days
7. Add days of the leap years over 476 years. Divided by 4 =-------------------------------------= 119 days
= 173,883 "
8. Subtract 1/128 Calendar year day for every solar year: Leap year omitted every 128 years.--- = -3 days
= 173,880 days!

Identically the same as the Hebrew 360 day (religious) year.

The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, of the final 7 years, is the Tribulation, or Jacob's Trouble (Jer.30:7.) which will conclude the 490 year prophecy decreed upon his people, with a 2,000 year parenthetic in between, that covers the entire church age!

Dan.9:27. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Hence this prophecy covers a period from 445 BC until Jesus has returned in His second advent to establish His kingdom here on earth! Or for 2,445 years!

Your bro in Christ,

Quasar

Quasar, most excellent post! Great job!

Coop

 

[lecoop]

Quasar, you keep saying that the 7th seal "contains" the 7 trumpets. I have heard others say the same thing. Does the first seal, contain all that follows it, all the way to chapter 21? Does the second seal contain all that follows it? Or is the seal, just a "lock" on the scroll, that prevents it from being unrolled any further, until that particular seal is broken? Once a seal is broken, then what is written inside can then be read.

Therefore, the 7th seal may not "contain" the trumpet judgements, but may only be the lock that allows the trumpets to be sounded.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

Darrell dunn,

I repent! In attempting to confront and/or expose what I believe was error in your post, I probably criticized you, the writer. For that I am sorry. You may be a beginner in prophecy, and of course, we all knew little when we started. I commend you for stepping up to the place, so to speak, and writing something, for many Christians will not do that.

Coop

 

[Quasar]

Thread subject

Quasar, you keep saying that the 7th seal "contains" the 7 trumpets. I have heard others say the same thing. Does the first seal, contain all that follows it, all the way to chapter 21? Does the second seal contain all that follows it? Or is the seal, just a "lock" on the scroll, that prevents it from being unrolled any further, until that particular seal is broken? Once a seal is broken, then what is written inside can then be read.

Therefore, the 7th seal may not "contain" the trumpet judgements, but may only be the lock that allows the trumpets to be sounded.

Coop

Quote by Coop:

>>>Quasar, most excellent post! Great job!<<<


Q: Thank you for the kind words!


When you read Rev.8, the very first verse identifies it as the seventh seal. It will lead from the the seven angels with the seven trumpets in vs 2 all the way through the sixth trumpet judgement at Rev.9:21. The seventh trumpet does not sound until Rev.11:15, after the episode about God's two witnesses. All the other seals are identified with the specifics revealed and are all unique and contain nothing but what the Scriptures reveal about them.

Blessings,

Quasar

 

[Darrell dunn]

I have been studying scripture for over 30 years now with God's help.

I don't type well, and my spelling is bad.

So I tend to make my post short.
But as for what I say it came from God!!!!!!!!!

THERE IS ONLY ONE ABSOLUTE TRUTH AND ALL ELSE IS A LIE!!!!!!

God told me that truth is like a clock it is only 12 o'clock when all three hands are pointed straight at the 12, and 1 or 2 seconds before or after it is not 12 o'clock, And 1 or 2 words is all it takes to make it a lie.

Daniel 12 gives us all 3 of the time periods. No.1 12:7 time, times and a half.
No.2 12:11 1290 days. No.3 12:12 1335 days. these are given this way to let us know that they are different.

Again in Rev.12:6 the first period 1260 days. this is the time of the seals being opened, and the 5 foolish virgins being killed Rev.6:9-11

Then satan is cast out of heaven Rev.6:13 the stars falling to earth,
And 12:10 the accuser is cast down,

Every one seems not to know what the book writen within and on the backside sealed with the seven seals is.
THAT IS THE DEED OF OWNERSHIP TO THE EARTH.
Jesus is making claim to it.

Read the rules to how a property was reclaimed at the year of Jubile.

The covenant Dan,9:27 is between God and the Jews, THAT IS WHAT THE 144,000 SEALED IS.
The Ac is against the holy covenant Dan. 11:30-31. and have indignation against the Holy covenant;so shall he do; he shall even return and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

31. And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

 

[Quasar]

Thread subject

I have been studying scripture for over 30 years now with God's help.

I don't type well, and my spelling is bad.

So I tend to make my post short.
But as for what I say it came from God!!!!!!!!!

THERE IS ONLY ONE ABSOLUTE TRUTH AND ALL ELSE IS A LIE!!!!!!

God told me that truth is like a clock it is only 12 o'clock when all three hands are pointed straight at the 12, and 1 or 2 seconds before or after it is not 12 o'clock, And 1 or 2 words is all it takes to make it a lie.

Daniel 12 gives us all 3 of the time periods. No.1 12:7 time, times and a half.
No.2 12:11 1290 days. No.3 12:12 1335 days. these are given this way to let us know that they are different.

Again in Rev.12:6 the first period 1260 days. this is the time of the seals being opened, and the 5 foolish virgins being killed Rev.6:9-11

Then satan is cast out of heaven Rev.6:13 the stars falling to earth,
And 12:10 the accuser is cast down,

Every one seems not to know what the book writen within and on the backside sealed with the seven seals is.
THAT IS THE DEED OF OWNERSHIP TO THE EARTH.
Jesus is making claim to it.

Read the rules to how a property was reclaimed at the year of Jubile.

The covenant Dan,9:27 is between God and the Jews, THAT IS WHAT THE 144,000 SEALED IS.
The Ac is against the holy covenant Dan. 11:30-31. and have indignation against the Holy covenant;so shall he do; he shall even return and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

31. And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Hi Darrell,

I have no problem with your claim to having studied the word of God for 30 years. I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior in '37 when I was in High School, 69 years ago.

The fact of the matter is, we do not all receive the same gifts from the Holy Spirit, as Paul explains in 1 Cor.12. There are many who believe they were given the gift of prophecy, but were not, which manifests itself every time they attempt to open a discussion about it. There is no doubt you received your gift(s) from the Holy Spirit when you believed/received Jesus as Lord, but it wasn't prophecy.

For example, the 1290 days of Dan.12:11, represent a 30 day period from the time the Antichrist abolishes the Jewish daily sacrifice in the 'midst of the week,' to the end of the tribulation, 3.5 years later, or 1260 days, i.e. 30 days after the tribulation is over. [1290 minus 1260 = 30].

The same applies to the 1335 days, 75 days after the daily sacrifice is abolished, in the midst of the week, 3.5 years later, i.e. 1260 days later. [1335 minus 1260 = 75]. This comes with a special blessing, in Dan.12:12.

As revealed in Zech.12:10, Israel [The Jews] finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah, who saves the remnant of them left near the end of the tribulation when He returns to the earth at His Second Coming.

Therefore, as is Jewish custom, they will celebrate the FEAST OF TABERNACLES, as seen in Zech,14:16, at the end of the tribulation, i.e. 1260 days following the daily sacrifice being abolished. Thirty days later [At the 1290 day point], they will celebrate PESACH, in their annual remembrance of God delievering them from Egypt [Passover, Lev.23:5-6].

75 days after the end of the tribulation, at the 1260 day mark, all who wait for the 1335 day will receive a special blessing, for the beginning of their celebration for SHAVUOT, when they have their harvest feast, in rejoicing the ingathering of their wheat crops - symbolic of being 'ingathered themselves following the tribulation [Lev.23:15-21].

None of the above are related to the events of Revelation, as many prophecies in Daniel are.

Satan is not cast out of heaven until Rev.12:7-9. Rev.6:13 has nothing to do with Satan, but rather the worsening condions on the earth during the tribulation.

The term 'covenant' means, 'agreement, and was used in ancient times rather than our modern term, 'treaty.' As you can see by the events going on in the middle east between Israel and the Islamics [Isaac and Ishmael], there will be a person who will soon manifest himself as a world leader, who will effect a peace treaty between the two of them for ONE WEEK [Dan.9:27]. After 3.5 years, or in the midst of the week, he will break that peace treaty and abolish the daily sacrifice. He will set up the 'abomination of desolation' in the temple of God, as Jesus spoke of in Mt.24:15.

This prophecy has nothing at all to do with the 144,000 Israelis God will place on the earth, just prior to the seventh seal, that contains the seven trumpet judgements.

Hope this clears up the points you raised above.

Blessings,

Quasar

 

[Darrell dunn]

When I started studying God told me to stay away from churches and bible study guides so that he could teach me scriptures himself.

So what I am saying came straight from God, So I would have to say that you are wrong.

And if you have trouble with what I said. I recommend you take it up with God.

I do know that He told me that there is a lot of lies going on in the church.

And I asked how far off does someone have to be, for it to be wrong?

He told me that when it is 12 o'clock all 3 hands point at the 12. and 1 second off it is not 12 o'clock any longer.

And changing 1 or 2 words makes it a lie!!!!!!!!

Now that is straight from God.

 

[lecoop]

So what do we do, when one persons says, "God showed me this...."
and then another person says, "God showed me this...." and the two are in direct oppostion! Obviously, one or both are wrong. These folks may be sincere, and they may be absolutely sure that God told them, but they are wrong anyway. How can this be? People listen to a wrong spirit. Paul called it "doctrines of devils."

I myself have said that "the Holy Spirit showed me this..." so it is possible that I fit into the scenario above. I know I am human, and I can miss it. However, at this point in time, I don't think I have.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

So what do we do, when one persons says, "God showed me this...."
and then another person says, "God showed me this...." and the two are in direct oppostion! Obviously, one or both are wrong. These folks may be sincere, and they may be absolutely sure that God told them, but they are wrong anyway. How can this be? People listen to a wrong spirit. Paul called it "doctrines of devils."

I myself have said that "the Holy Spirit showed me this..." so it is possible that I fit into the scenario above. I know I am human, and I can miss it. However, at this point in time, I don't think I have.

Coop

Dunn:
If indeed God did show you these things, then it should bare up under close scrutiny, since God is the author of the book. He surely would not cause John to write one thing, and tell you something different; agreed?

Now, lets look at some of your posts:

First post on this thread:

The seven Trumpets and seven vials make up the seven years of Dan.9:27

The first 4 are the first half , and the last 3 are the last half.

read the 4th trumpet , that is where the days are shortened.

The seven seals are another 3 1/2 years before Dan. 9:27 starts.

John agrees with your first sentence: the trumpets and vials do indded make up the 7 years, with some midpoint events thrown in.

Your next sentence says, " the first 4 are the first half..." I am supposing you are saying that the first four trumpets make up the first half of the week? Well, sorry to inform you, but John totally disagrees with you. John breaks for the midpoint events, showing that he is near the midpoint, right after the 6th (that is sixth) trumpet, NOT the 4th.

Therefore, I can tell you right off that either you did not hear from God, or you did not understand what He said.

Then you said "the last 3 are the last half." The last three what? Trumpets or vials? I am supposing you are saying trumpets. Again, John disagrees with you. If you suppose their is some connection with the lights dimming, and the midpoint, then please explain what this connection is.

Next you said, "The seven seals are another 3 1/2 years before Dan. 9:27 starts."

Since the Daniel verse is mentioning the "one week," I guess you are saying that the seals are before the 70th week. In this you are correct! However, there is nothing that would lead anyone to think that the seals will take 3 1/2 years. In fact, the seals encompass the entire church age. Again, you are WAY off from reality. Again I wonder what spirit you are listening to.

In your next post you said:

"First there are 10 years in the book of Rev. Not 7

There will be 7 years that man will be offered salvation, represented by the 7 days that the door of the Ark was left open after Noah had gone aboard and the door sealed before the flood, then there are 3 1/2 years no one will be saved.Except those that live threw it.
The 5 foolish virgins will preach the first 3 years, then the 144,000 will preach 3 1/2 years, And the two witnesses will preach the last 3 1/2 years."

Did you not read:

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Did you notice that? One thousand years. In just one verse of the book! So you have missed it by a "country mile." But I think you did not write what you were meaning. I suspect you were meaning that what we call seven years you are going to tell us is really 10 years. Am I right?

Next you posted:

There will be 7 years that man will be offered salvation, represented by the 7 days that the door of the Ark was left open after Noah had gone aboard and the door sealed before the flood, then there are 3 1/2 years no one will be saved.Except those that live threw it.
The 5 foolish virgins will preach the first 3 years, then the 144,000 will preach 3 1/2 years, And the two witnesses will preach the last 3 1/2 years.

Please show me where you find that no one will be saved. I have never read such a verse. Also, I have never seen a verse that ties the seven days in Genesis with the seven years of the 70th week. Could you please point this verse out to us?

Next, you say that that five foolish virgins will preach for the first three years. Once again, you are "ad libbing." There is no such verse anywhere. Did you not notice that the story of the virgins was a "parable?" The five virgins are not real people, and they are not going to be preaching anywhere! So once again, I must wonder what spirit you have been listening to.

Then you say, "the 144,000 will preach 3 1/2 years, And the two witnesses will preach the last 3 1/2 years."

Once again, you have pulled an idea right out of thin air! There is no verse that says the 144,000 will preach anything. It simply is not there. However, the two witnesses will indeed witness for the last 3 1/2 years.

In conclusion, I cannot find any evidence that you have heard from God. Therefore, you either did not hear or understand clearly, or you were not listening to the Holy Spirit, but rather another spirit, in my humble opinion.

I commend you for having the nerve to post on a public forum, but I challenge you to make sure what you write is in agreement with the book.

Coop

 

[Darrell dunn]

The ten virgins are the church. The saved washed in the blood, christians,
We come into this world defiled, Therefore to be undefiled( or virgin) We are washed in the blood. This a picture of the church at the time of the rapture. the same as the servant in Matt. 24:48-51

And As for the middle of the Trib. Jesus said that the days will be shortened
The forth trumpet is the shorting of the days. And the three woes are the announcement that the great trib. will start.

And what do you think that the 5 foolish virgins that were left will be doing while the Ac is coming on the scene. They are the ones under the throne that were killed Rev.6:9-11

Most people get their beliefs from the teaching of a group or a book.

Thinking that the Lord lead them to it. Not by being taught by the Holy Spirit.

I did not read any books or go to a church while the Lord taught me prophesy, This was at his instruction. I can not quote any others. or tell you what they believe because for the last 30 years I ask the Lord when I need answers.

I know that the Lord did not send an army of one. So there are others.

Altho when I asked the Lord where were his prophets. He took me to the book of Jude And told me that most had ran after the money.

When I told God that I needed His help in getting togather people to help write a book about prophesy He told me He had not called me to write a book.
The reason that God seals the 144,000 Jews is for them to be able to preach without satan being able to hurt them.

 

[Orates]

The Trumpets=Bowls

Point #1 The 1st Bowl has to happen after Midweek because it pours on people marked by the Antichrist.

Rev 16:1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, "Go, pour out the seven bowls of God's wrath on the earth." 2 The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly and painful sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image.

Point #2 At the 7th Trumpet, the Wrath has come, therefore it could not precede the 1st Bowl.

Rev 9:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever." 16And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying:
"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign. 18The nations were angry; and your wrath has come.

Point #3 The Resurrection/Rapture occurs at the 7th and last Trumpet at the end of the 7 years.

The time has come for judging the dead (1st ResurrectionRapture),
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and greatâ€â€
and for destroying those who destroy the earth."
19Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a great hailstorm.

Point #4 It is Finished at the 7th Trumpet/Bowl!
Rev 16:17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, "It is done!"
Rev 9:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."

The 7 Trumpets describes the same events as the 7 Bowls- including Armageddon and Jesus' Second Coming in both the 7th Trumpet and 7th Bowl. They are not sequential! Just two descriptions of the same events from two different perspectives. This is something of a revelation to me (and I am curious why others are not seeing it) and an important point in getting the sequence of Revelation straight.

Orates 2006

 

[lecoop]

Re: The Trumpets=Bowls

Point #1 The 1st Bowl has to happen after Midweek because it pours on people marked by the Antichrist.

Rev 16:1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, "Go, pour out the seven bowls of God's wrath on the earth." 2 The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly and painful sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image.

I agree. This is correct, as the mark has to have been already put in place.

Point #2 At the 7th Trumpet, the Wrath has come, therefore it could not precede the 1st Bowl.

Rev 9:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever." 16And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying:
"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign. 18The nations were angry; and your wrath has come.

Since the bowls and trumpets are two separate things, and are separated by the midpoint, the trumpets then are sounded before the bowls. Are you saying that God's wrath starts with the bowls?

What was John saying here by "your wrath has come?" Is he saying that God's wrath is about to start, and will start with the first bowl? Or does the Greek tell us something else?

And
the nations
were angry.................................orgizo
and
thy
wrath
is come......................................erchomai
and
the time
of the dead
that they should be judged............krino
and
that thou shouldest give................didomi
reward
unto thy
servants
the prophets
and
to the saints
and
them that fear.............................phobeo.......Present tense
thy
name
small
and
great
and
shouldest destroy.......................diaphtheiro
them which destroy.....................diaphtheiro.....Present tense
the
earth

The only present tense verbs here are as shown. All the other verbs in this verse are "Aorist" verbs. Aorist verbs are very strange as compared to English verbs. We cannot use a verb without giving away when the action took place. Our verb tells us that. The Greek Aorist verb just does not carry any "tense" information. Here is what Thayers says: "that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time. There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense..." Therefore, we don't know when the nations got angry. All we know is that they have anger.

All we know for sure about God and wrath, is that they go together, but we do not know "when" by this verse. It could be that "God's wrath came," or "God's wrath will come" or God's wrath is here now." But we just don't have the information to tell us for sure. Therefore, we must go by other verses, and by the context to determine when God's wrath will actually start.

Point #3 The Resurrection/Rapture occurs at the 7th and last Trumpet at the end of the 7 years.

The time has come for judging the dead (1st ResurrectionRapture),
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and greatâ€â€
and for destroying those who destroy the earth."
19Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a great hailstorm.

Sorry, but this does not fit John's chronology. He shows the trumpets in the first half of the week, and the vials in the last half of the week. Are you saying then, that the rapture will be at the exact midpoint, which is marked by the 7th trumpet? If so, I will have to disagree again. John shows the church in heaven, before the first trumpet, not after the 7th. Are you comparing the 7th trumpet here with the "last trump?" If so, you are again mistaken, for these trumpets have nothing to do with the rapture.One must be careful of making doctrine of these verses, as they are given by the 24 elders as a prophecy. For instance, we see elsewhere in Revelation that the time for judging the dead will come after the 1000 years. (The rapture cannot be likened to judging.)

Point #4 It is Finished at the 7th Trumpet/Bowl!

Rev 16:17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, "It is done!"
Rev 9:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."

The 7 Trumpets describes the same events as the 7 Bowls- including Armageddon and Jesus' Second Coming in both the 7th Trumpet and 7th Bowl. They are not sequential! Just two descriptions of the same events from two different perspectives. This is something of a revelation to me (and I am curious why others are not seeing it) and an important point in getting the sequence of Revelation straight.

Again, I do not agree. The trumpets cannot be the same thing as the vials, nor the vials be the same thing as the trumpets, as they are separated by about 3 1/2 years. The first trumpet will be sounded near the beginning of the week, and the first vial will be poured out near the beginning of the second half of the week. This is John's chronology. Next, they are simply not comparable. In the trumpets we see 1/3 destruction, while in the vials, it is total. therefore, the trumpets are given as warnings of worse things to come.

Orates 2006

Coop's comments in brown.