[_ Old Earth _] The Age of the Earth – The Helium Clock

[Tri Unity]

Here is your opportunity to convince me otherwise by following the course of action I suggested.

Sorry, I'm not interested. Others will discuss this with you. I am not here for that reason - regardless of what you think is the purpose of this forum. True christianity does not operate that way. Professional debating is not discussing. Many on this forum misunderstand the intention of christian ministry and mission. There will always be unbelievers. We are not bothered with haggling for the right price of compromise.

 

[lordkalvan]

Sorry, I'm not interested. Others will discuss this with you. I am not here for that reason - regardless of what you think is the purpose of this forum. True christianity does not operate that way. Professional debating is not discussing. Many on this forum misunderstand the intention of christian ministry and mission. There will always be unbelievers. We are not bothered with haggling for the right price of compromise.

Then I guess you will just have to face the consequences of unanswered critiques of your various unsupported claims, assertions and opinions substituting for reasoned, evidenced argument.

 

[cupid dave]

Sorry, I'm not interested. Others will discuss this with you. I am not here for that reason - regardless of what you think is the purpose of this forum. True christianity does not operate that way. Professional debating is not discussing. Many on this forum misunderstand the intention of christian ministry and mission. There will always be unbelievers.

We are not bothered with haggling for the right price of compromise.

You are wise to dismiss the whole issue since just how God accomplished the creation matters little since he never says whether he used evolution as the process of an individual Spontaneous Generation in each case for each and every species we now recognize, including those whih are extinct.

The attacks on Genesis by those who think science contradicts the Bible is the attempt to weaken the religious community and its psychological and sociological posture on the culture.

The Bible is about Human Behavior, not Physical Science.
But the applications of scripture in the field of Social Science and Psychology are questionable if what Genesis says is contradictory before the read gets to the behavioral concepts.

Theistic Evolution presents an interpretation of Genesis which used science to support the Physical Science described in Genesis.
The church really ought adopt this explanation since what the ancient medieval teachings say is very subject to attack.

 

[Tri Unity]

You are wise to dismiss the whole issue since just how God accomplished the creation matters little ...

Hi Dave,

I have not dismissed the whole subject; I just avoid discussing things with carnally minded people. Christianity is a spiritual enterprise; it is appraised spiritually with spiritual eyes and faith. You cannot debate this enterprise with people who deny the spiritual realities. They have not eyes to see, so it is pointless. If I can "convert" someone by proving God through science alone, for instance, I do not think that their conversion would be genuine anyway.

The information I present is made available for people who already believe in creation, not atheism or theistic evolution (which are very closely related), or for people that the Father is drawing through His Spirit and require a little more guidance for their faith to grow.

Theistic Evolution presents an interpretation of Genesis which used science to support the Physical Science described in Genesis. The church really ought adopt this explanation since what the ancient medieval teachings say is very subject to attack.

You are at liberty to make your theology conform to science. I do not advice this.

Tri

 

[Pizzaguy]

You are at liberty to make your theology conform to science. I do not advice this.

What? Like making science conform to theology makes any more sense?

God did not write the Bible to explain science to us - it was written to us to teach us about GOD, and our relationship with Him.

 

[Tri Unity]

What? Like making science conform to theology makes any more sense?

God did not write the Bible to explain science to us - it was written to us to teach us about GOD, and our relationship with Him.

God did not create so as to allow nature to explain the Bible to us. Why did God have Genesis in the first place? So that scientists could make it redundant and stupid? Blasphemy!

Evolution is a belief that has existed for thousands of years. It was taught by Epicurus 300 years before Christ. Paul, the inspired bible writer, did not sway to evolution when he was attacked by the Epicurians:

"some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers were conversing with him, and some were asking, "What does this foolish babbler want to say?" (Acts 17:18)
​

Yes, the evolutionists considered Paul a foolish babbler. As an evolutionist, you are the modern-day persecuter of Paul. For that, you do not earn my respect, nor Paul's, nor of Jesus. You have been deceived into becoming an Epicurean. "Theistic Evolution" is just a fancy way of being a "Theistic Epicurean".

 

[Pizzaguy]

Why did God have Genesis in the first place?

God did not "have" Genesis, He inspired it to be WRITTEN.

As an evolutionist, you are the modern-day persecuter of Paul. For that, you do not earn my respect, nor Paul's, nor of Jesus. You have been deceived into becoming an Epicurean. "Theistic Evolution" is just a fancy way of being a "Theistic Epicurean".

Who are you talking to? I'm a devout creationist.

 

[Grazer]

Tri-Unity

You must be God himself then to know and declare that evolutionists don't have Jesus's respect.

Cardinal Bellarmine said during the Galileo affair "The doctrine attributed to Copernicus that the earth moves around the sun.....is contrary to the Holy Scriptures and therefore cannot be defended or held"

You're essentially saying the same thing about evolution. History, as I'm sure you know, proved Galileo and Copernicus right and no one in the church has problems in not taking passages like Ecclesiastes 1:5 literalistically. Taking the bible literalistically and taking it seriously are 2 different things.

I think Jesus is more concerned with how we live our lives and help others more than whether we believe evolution to be true or not. As Galileo puts it;

"The bible shows us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go"

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[Tri Unity]

Evolution was planned by God to tempt people away from Him? See, this is why people who know little or nothing about science should not get into such discussions. You are not helping your cause here. Not at all.

Your criticism, I assumed, was based on you being a Theistic Evolutionist. My mistake. It seems then that you just like to criticize for the sport of it. You have not offered any science insight or explanations of your own, yet you sit on the side-line as an umpire making offensive comments.

 

[Tri Unity]

I think Jesus is more concerned with how we live our lives and help others more than whether we believe evolution to be true or not. As Galileo puts it; "The bible shows us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go"

That's your opinion.

Many scientists disagree with you, the priest and Galileo.

Jesus stated that we come from Adam and Eve... was Jesus lying?

 

[Adam]

That's your opinion.

Many scientists disagree with you, the priest and Galileo.

Jesus stated that we come from Adam and Eve... was Jesus lying?

I find it troubling when people conflate the words of Jesus with the words of Paul and can't see the distinction between them.

I know that most people shrub their shoulders and say something illogical like "same difference" or make some appeal to the Holy Spirit and claim therefore Paul's words might as well be Jesus'.


In my opinion, it is important to note the difference. Paul is not the Christ. As such, he is fallible and capable of being wrong. You don't have to be purposefully deceitful to be wrong, just as you were in error about what Jesus said without having intentionally lied.

 

[Tri Unity]

I find it troubling when people conflate the words of Jesus with the words of Paul and can't see the distinction between them. ...Paul is not the Christ. As such, he is fallible and capable of being wrong.

Your opinion doesn't particularly trouble me. You obviously do not believe is the inspiration of scripture. I do. Paul, who was speaking the words that Jesus told him to say, said:

"For there must be heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." (1 Corinthians 11:19)
​

You see, your heresies of denying inspiration has been expected. It was prophesied concerning you. This is not troubling, it is invigorating.

 

[Grazer]

That's your opinion.

Many scientists disagree with you, the priest and Galileo.

Jesus stated that we come from Adam and Eve... was Jesus lying?

Many scientists also agree with me. There are scientists on both sides. Doesn't really prove anything.

Was Jesus lying? Or was he using what was understood at the time to help them understand the point he was trying to convey? The context in Matthew 19 is divorce, not how we came to be on this earth. I could talk about love and reference Romeo and Juliet. Does it mean the point is null & void because these 2 characters never existed? Of course not so it doesn't matter if Adam & Eve existed for the purposes of Jesus's point, it doesn't make him a liar if they didn't. Taking what was known and using it is how I believe God gave us the Old Testament. It would have been no use to us if God used his language, we would never understand it.

Evolution doesn't disprove Adam and Eve. It just puts forward another explanation on how they were created. The most important element for me though is the fact we were created, we're not here by chance, we have a purpose.

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[Tri Unity]

Evolution doesn't disprove Adam and Eve. It just puts forward another explanation on how they were created. The most important element for me though is the fact we were created, we're not here by chance, we have a purpose.

You seem to be very confused.

 

[Grazer]

You seem to be very confused.

How? Despite the shrill assertions of Professor Dawkins and young earth creationists, evolution is not necessarily a mindless unguided process and genesis is not necessarily an historical account or a scientific treatise.

Evolution as a mindless process doesn't hold up for the reasons the likes of Professor Lennox and Professor Collins have brilliantly demonstrated. But neither, especially the latter, dismiss evolution as a whole as a result.

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[lordkalvan]

You seem to be very confused.

As opposed to sublimely self-righteous. Just saying.

 

[Tri Unity]

As opposed to sublimely self-righteous. Just saying.

Having faith in God and His Word is not self-righteous. You have too many investments in ideologies and philosophies which should be completely foreign to the evolution which you espouse. Believing in evolution and trying to justify your self-belief to give yourself meaning shows that evolution is a philosophy and a faith system; not a mechanism. You have denied yourself this fact; akin to an alcoholic denying they have a drinking problem. It is not surprising that you denounce the psychiatry which attempts to snap you out of your denial.

 

[Grazer]

Evolution or God is a false choice though. It's like choosing between law of internal combustion or Henry Ford as an explanation for the car.

Its not surprising you feel you have to make this choice whilst you continue to wrongly assert evolution is a worldview/faith. This has been comprehensively shown to be wrong by a simple reading of the dictionary.

It seems you've swallowed Dawkins representations of evolution despite some very prominent scientists like Francis Collins (who is a Christian) showing how wrong Dawkins is.

I trust God and his word as you do. If I didn't, I wouldn't be a Christian and I disagree with Dawkins as you do just for different reasons. But my faith is not based on any reading of Genesis and Genesis, when you read what it actually says, is silent on the age of the earth.

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[Tri Unity]

But my faith is not based on any reading of Genesis and Genesis, when you read what it actually says, is silent on the age of the earth.

IMO you only have partial faith. You have nurtured doubt which gave birth to your trust in atheistic scientists. I do not nurture such doubt.

 

[Grazer]

IMO you only have partial faith. You have nurtured doubt which gave birth to your trust in atheistic scientists. I do not nurture such doubt.

Well since you don't know much about me, you're not in any position to pass any judgments on any aspect of my faith or what I doubt. As you've said to others, your opinion doesn't mean anything to me.

Plus, Francis Collins is a Christian.

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