The apostate church QUIZ ADDED 11 7 06

[jgredline]

The Holy Bible warns us of the falling away and of the apostasy of the church and off apostates.. Below are a couple of definitions. Can you give examples of either? Bible examples and modern day examples would be great. Explain also why.


APOSTASY  a falling away from the faith. The nation of Israel fell into repeated backslidings (Jer. 5:6, NRSV). The prophet Jeremiah predicted the judgment of God upon such disloyalty: “Your wickedness will chasten you, and your apostasies will reprove you†(Jer. 2:19, NRSV).
Some of the noted apostates in the Bible are: King Saul, who turned back from following the Lord (1 Sam. 15:11); Hymenaeus and Alexander, who “suffered shipwreck†of their faith (1 Tim. 1:19–20); and Demas, who forsook the apostle Paul because he loved this present world (2 Tim. 4:10).
In Acts 21:21 Paul was described falsely as one who taught the Jews living among the Gentiles to commit apostasy (forsake, NKJV). Second Thessalonians 2:3 declares that the Day of Christ “will not come unless the apostasy comes first†(NASB). This great apostasy will be the time of “the final rebellion against God, when wickedness will be revealed in human form†(2 Thess. 2:3, REB).


I figured this something we could discuss in a peaceful manner

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Jude tells us of another type. Those who crept in. Ungodly men.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

These people are not Christians who backslid. They are not cults, who honestly believe in God in some sort of twisted way. They are not believers of the Word of God in any manner. They want us to believe that they are Christians. They want to lead us. They will preach the word until they get the hook set,

then they will reel in those that have been hooked.

Forgive the mixed metaphors, please. The Lord Himself tells us that they come in sheep's clothing.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

They give the appearance of being sheep. They work hard to act like Christians, so that they will be accepted.

Paul warned us also:

Acts 20:28-31 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

What to do?

There is no truth on that hook. Don't bite.

The way bank tellers are able to recognize counterfeit bills, is by knowing the real ones. When a fake comes along, it is easy to spot. We need to know the Lord. Not just be a student of Scripture. The apostate knows Scripture. The devil knows Scripture. We must know Jesus. We must be filled with the Holy Spirit. We need to hear His voice.

Psalms 100:3 Know ye that the LORD he [is] God: [it is] he [that] hath made us, and not we ourselves; [we are] his people, and the sheep of his pasture.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

We need to do more though. We can not just be about keeping ourselves free from the apostate. We need to protect our brothers and sisters, and the lost who have not yet come to know the Lord. We do that through prayer.

 

[Solo]

I don't know that the Apostates recognize their apostacy, what do ya'll think? I do not believe that Apostates have ever been born again, but have fallen away from sound doctrine, teaching another gospel so that they can appear to have arrived; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

I don't know that the Apostates recognize their apostacy, what do ya'll think?

There are many different groups of them. Some do, some are actively, willfully doing everything that they can do against the cause of Christ. Some of them are blindly doing so. The motivation could be for selfish gain, to serve satan, or simply out of hatred for God.

 

[Solo]

There are many different groups of them. Some do, some are actively, willfully doing everything that they can do against the cause of Christ. Some of them are blindly doing so. The motivation could be for selfish gain, to serve satan, or simply out of hatred for God.

I agree. Do you think any of these as described below are on this forum?

1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate F6 concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 2 Timothy 3:1-9

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

I agree. Do you think any of these as described below are on this forum?

Of course. And in the work place. And in the neighborhood. And in the media.....

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

For many years I believed verse 5 was describing people like Jim Jones or David Koresh. People who were trying to convince us that they were Jesus Christ. As in this verse;

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Then one day I heard someone say something that stuck in my mind. They told me that they thought the verse could be saying that 'Many shall come in the name of Jesus Christ, saying that they agree that Jesus is the Christ, and then, after establishing a foundation, they shall deceive many.
Something to think about...truly a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

What to do, what to do? Endure.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[destiny]

We have bible colleges that are turning out apostates by the droves, and then the churches 'hire' them.
We have denominations with apostates sitting at the top as 'overseers', and then theres the trickle down effect from that.
Churches have been institutionalized in such a way that has set them up for apostasy, I don't think God ever intended so much "institutionalizing" be done to His simple church.
Anyway, I feel it's set up to fail because theres too many ways a "qualified" wolf can gain entrance.
I'm sure things had to fail at the home level first, before the rest of it could became so tolerated.

 

[unred typo]

Solo wrote:
I agree. Do you think any of these as described below are on this forum?


I hadn’t really noticed any captive giggling women being dragged off but men who seem to be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, unthankful, unholy, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, heady, high minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; who resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith, having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof who are ever learning, and never seem able to come to the knowledge of the truth appear to be running amuck sometimes. Shall we all point them out for you or would you rather expose these ‘counterfeits’ yourself? Maybe we could make a list and call fire down from heaven and have their keyboards melted to their fingertips. Maybe we could post endless pages of Calvinist doctrine under every one of their posts until their eyes fry and their brains implode. JK. :wink:

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Anyway, I feel it's set up to fail because theres too many ways a "qualified" wolf can gain entrance.

1John 4:1-3 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1Cor 12:4-8 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit...differences of administrations, but the same Lord.... to another discerning of spirits...
Do we test the spirits? Discern the spirits? Does the church prefer the charming personality, the educated who can quote Scripture, the entertaining one who can make us laugh. Have we labeled many of our brothers and sisters 'fringe lunatics' because they talk about supernatural things of God?

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears...

We need to stop leaning on our own understanding. The church has become very secular, and we need a revival.

Jam 2:1-3 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, [the Lord] of glory, with respect of persons. For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool...

This is what the Lord had John write to the church of the Laodiceans;

Rev 3:15-17 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Is that the church today? We think we are rich and do not know we are wretched...

 

[jgredline]

We have bible colleges that are turning out apostates by the droves, and then the churches 'hire' them.

There is so much truth in this statement that it is very sad and quite frankly depressing.

At the last Church that I was at (I have only been to 5 in my 41 years of life), it fell into this very trap. It has been almost three years since I left and I still hurt over it. I am still angry about it. God has Taught me me much in these past three years and I have come out further ahead. In all I praise God I am o longer there as I did not truly know what I was missing until I was no longer there.

I will share of some of those events that took place.

When I first went to that Church which is a Free Methodist church (not to be confused with a united methodist church) it was pretty cool. It is a very conservative church that is charismatic and beliefs in the gifts of the spirit are for today unlike many conservative churches who believe the gifts were only a first century gift. I should also mention that it is an armeniast church and I was a die hard armenianst as you will ever find. That is until I studied theology and decided that both calvin and Junias armenias are both right and are both wrong. The truth in in the middle of both and the devil has used this to cause division in Gods church.

Anyway the Pastor and I had a very special relationship. I was his prayer partner for the last three years he was there before he retired and moved.

Now I should say that during this time I was teaching the adult advanced class. I had about 40-50 students and was teaching verse by verse and theology as well. I had the only class that was doing pretty good.

Anyway to make a long story short, the new pastor was doing a pretty good job for the first few months. He was very youth oriented as he was a youth pastor and he believed in prayer and consulting the ministry team for advice and decision making. He said and done the right things and really I thought everything was going OK.

Things started to change when he enrolled into Life Bible College.
In the next year the pastor proceeded to slowly dismantle the ministry team and replaced them with NEW people who were also following the very liberal false teachings of Life Bible College. All the while I was calling him on all the things that were wrong biblically. He said to me and to another really good teacher that we were both legalistic and needed to change with the times.

Well during this time the new pastor introduced the Gospel of the purpose driven life. He shut down all the bible study classes except mine and he started to read and teach the PDL.. Well most were very uncomfortable with that and started to attend my class until it was about half the church.
Well the pastor would not have any of that and asked me to step down and help him with the PDL. I said no. Everything that anybody would need to know about church growth is in the book of ACTS. Now as far as numbers go the church was never really big to beging with. We averaged about 150 or so people for service and sometimes 180 or so.

Well what finally did it was that he started to use the Message to preach and teach from the pulpit. Could you imaging this. Here I was using primarily the KJV or NASB and he goes to the message because what I was using was to difficult to understand.. Two weeks later he told the congergation that they no longer would need to bring their bibles to church because he would be putting his sermon using the message in the overhead.

That was the last straw for me. I packed my family and left. I never said anything to anyone and I felt bad about it. I placed many of my students in other churches and some came with us. Some stood. In the end the church was down to 20 people and they changed the name of the sanctuary to the family room and they took out the pews so that people line up in a circle and look up at the pastor while he preaches. Can you say CULT.
In many ways this is why I am so outspoken about false teachers. They come to kill, steal and destroy.

I should have been able to do more, but there was not much I could do. I truly loved that church and the people.

I will say more about this a little later. I will show examples of his false teaching.

 

[jgredline]

I don't know that the Apostates recognize their apostacy, what do ya'll think? I do not believe that Apostates have ever been born again, but have fallen away from sound doctrine, teaching another gospel so that they can appear to have arrived; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof.

I am convinced that many don't know they are apostates.
I agree with you. If they were born again the spirit who reveals truth would show them there apostasy. This is very true of those 6 or 7 that are frequent posters here.

 

[D46]

Things started to change when he enrolled into Life Bible College.
In the next year the pastor proceeded to slowly dismantle the ministry team and replaced them with NEW people who were also following the very liberal false teachings of Life Bible College. All the while I was calling him on all the things that were wrong biblically. He said to me and to another really good teacher that we were both legalistic and needed to change with the times.

That's a sad story, JG but unfortunately it can be told over and over. This is the sort of thing that happens when they go to these seminaries that, for the most part, are led by those who don't have good intentions, swaying you away from the KJV bible and going to "The Message" for instnace. That's one of the worse versions you can find at your local friendly Christian book store.

I left a Church about a year and a half back, no due to a false teaching but for other reasons. I didn't feel comfortable there anymore since My former wife still went there and I guess it was just me but at times I felt like too many eyes were judgmentally upon me. We even sat together and were and are still great friends. That, coupled with the pastor getting rid of the song books suddenly without any explaination until much later, and the fact that they started going to the overhead projection"thingy" and the constant emphasis on the youth of the church, I just felt it was time for me to move on. I hope the day never comes when that pastor starts teaching false doctrine and resorts to "another gospel" in another bible. The music started changing as well when the old hymnal's were taken up to a more contemporary style of song became more prevalent There was a different song each service so no one could learn what they had heard the last time! But-they had the overhead projection system didn't they! And, that's ok as long as they don't forsake the old songs that had feeling and history behind them. This is what happens when they want to bring more into the church and are more concerned about numbers and their bank account than about preaching the truth, in your case.

I guess we're in the midst of an "emerging church".

 

[jgredline]

D46
tHERE is tons of truth in what you have just said. Another thing this apastate pastor did was indeed take out the hymms. Now As far as the whole music goes, I understand about the youth and all that stuff, but the fact is that there needs and should have been a compromise. The old saints are the life blood to any church. They are the faithful prayer warriors that everychurch needs to survive. They are also the most faithful in their giving.. They are the ones who have the most wisdom to offer.

As far as the ''seeker friendly emergent church'' goes you are correct their also. The evil one has the likes of Brian Mclaren, Ken Blnchard and Rick Warren and these other NEW AGE guros preaching this stuff with no biblical foundation in which new believers to plant there roots in that they are plucked away by the birds of the air.

As far as the bible goes for bible teaching, I am not a KJV only guy. I believe that a teacher has to use a word for word bible and preferably 2 or 3 versions. I do believe the KJV is the bench mark and so I did most of my teaching with it and the NASB. Now since I am in the middle of my sabatical I have been using the NKJV and the ESV.
In my opinion other than those 4 I mentioned I do not believe any other versions should be used for teaching as they are opinion bibles. I should say that the Amplified version is also OK IMO..

 

[D46]

Something else I couldn't understand about that pastor/church was how very friendly he was when I first started going there...and even for 2-3 years thereafter. I had audience with him anytime I wanted. Nearly every service we had, he would always mention me from the pulpit, i.e. he would be preaching and reading scripture and then say something like..."and he made Ezekiel a watchman, Bro. David..." this sort of thing. I started feeling a bit shy to all this as he mentioned me too much. Suddenly after a while, it bacame less and less and as others would just come into the church, he started calling them by name during a sermon. Perhaps that was just his way-I don't know. He would always call me by my first name and then started calling me by my last name? That didn't make any sense to me. It's like calling your new bride Linda for the first few years and then referring to her as Mrs. Jones!!

Another situation was the addition of an "Extreme Youth" night held about once a month on a Friday night. We went to one of them to see what it was all about and the music was very different than what was sang/played during a normal service with smoke (sometimes colored) bellowing from the background and that sort of thing. It sounded and looked more like a KISS concert than an uplifting of the Lord. Maybe I'm just getting old. I never went back to another one of those.

 

[golfjack]

reply

In no way am I going to call a Church Apostate because it doesn't endorse the KJV version of the Bible. Now, I have been using the NKV version and Amplified more than before. So the question is, What constitutes an Apostate Church and why?

I really think we need to get back to basics. First, the Church doesn't have leaders that are sound and have good conduct. This job is up to the Pastor. Leaders must be proven so they can help in the Great Commission. Let me give you an example. Someone in my Church was in the Praise and Worship Ministry. She witnessed to someone and when this person came to our Church, she saw the singer, annd actually said to me, I seen her at the bar last night partying. I believe we have to be careful when we pick our leaders.

The big problem I see in the Church today is that God's people are sinning too much. In Romans 6:1-25 Paul tells us much about what do about our flesh. Too many are slaves to sin. We should be slaves to righteousness. We have people today in churches that are living together without marriage, openly Gay, not listening to sound doctrine, drinking to access, use pornagraphy, and even molest our children. It's like a cancer that has been growing fast and furious down through the centuries.

So what is the solution? Prayer and more Prayer. We need qualified people in the five-fold Ministry. We need great leaders, who can help a church grow. Most importantly, we need to stop sinning and promoting it. We need people who are eager and on fire for the Lord. We need to rebuke these silly heresy hunters, who really are jealous and are decaying our Churches. And we need to be humble enough to listen to that inward voice of God, and love even when we don't feel like loving.

I think we know what Churches are Apostate by Denominations. The people in these churches are fine, but it is the leadership. I would tell a person that belongs to one of these churches to depart in a hurry. From such, turn away. I believe God wants a Word and Holy Ghost Church.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Re: reply

...So what is the solution? Prayer and more Prayer. We need qualified people in the five-fold Ministry. We need great leaders, who can help a church grow. Most importantly, we need to stop sinning and promoting it. We need people who are eager and on fire for the Lord....

Prayer and more Prayer.

Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

 

[jgredline]

D46
Your story sounds similar to mine. You pastors name would not happen to be AJ would it? I know its not, but it sounds so similar. Then again why would the devil change his tactics if they work.

Jack
I am not a KJV only guy. But I do not believe that any preacher should use a paraphraze to preach or teach. I even cosider the NIV a paraphraze.

This morning while chennel flipping I caught ken copeland and could not help but listen to this false teacher and sure enough he was true to his nature.

He said that churches that preach on sin find themselves with a sin problem because faith comes from the hearing of the word of God and if one hears of sin it will produce sin.

He then went on to say, that he who points out the sin of another is he himself guilty of sin and needs to repent of that to get the blessing back..

I don't know if he puts his messages on his website or not, but I am sure they will show him on tv again this evening sometime if anybody want to check out what I am saying.

 

[CP_Mike]

D46
Your story sounds similar to mine. You pastors name would not happen to be AJ would it? I know its not, but it sounds so similar. Then again why would the devil change his tactics if they work.

Jack
I am not a KJV only guy. But I do not believe that any preacher should use a paraphraze to preach or teach. I even cosider the NIV a paraphraze.

This morning while chennel flipping I caught ken copeland and could not help but listen to this false teacher and sure enough he was true to his nature.

He said that churches that preach on sin find themselves with a sin problem because faith comes from the hearing of the word of God and if one hears of sin it will produce sin.

He then went on to say, that he who points out the sin of another is he himself guilty of sin and needs to repent of that to get the blessing back..

I don't know if he puts his messages on his website or not, but I am sure they will show him on tv again this evening sometime if anybody want to check out what I am saying.

Here is something I agree with on JG, I think the general 'prosperity gospel' is the biggest threat to Western Christianity today with so much interest in 'self' rather than the Gospel of peace.

 

[golfjack]

reply

Jg, It is a proven fact that if a Preacher preaches sin to a point that the believer has a sin conscience, they probably will sin. You know I am Word of Faith, and I firmly believe what proceeds out of the mouth that is what person can be unless he is joking. Kenneth Copeland is a Proven man of God, and I really get upset with people who say that he is a false teacher. He is not. Another thing, we have way too many religious spirits in the church that to me are just busy bodies. Everyone has their own anointing, and most wouldn't understand them. Do you understand the anointing of the late Kenneth Hagin? I challenge to come up with a teaching that Kenneth Copeland has preached that is not Biblical.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[jgredline]

Re: reply

Jg, It is a proven fact that if a Preacher preaches sin to a point that the believer has a sin conscience, they probably will sin. You know I am Word of Faith, and I firmly believe what proceeds out of the mouth that is what person can be unless he is joking. Kenneth Copeland is a Proven man of God, and I really get upset with people who say that he is a false teacher. He is not. Another thing, we have way too many religious spirits in the church that to me are just busy bodies. Everyone has their own anointing, and most wouldn't understand them. Do you understand the anointing of the late Kenneth Hagin? I challenge to come up with a teaching that Kenneth Copeland has preached that is not Biblical.



May God bless, golfjack

Jack
Please explain to me how preaching on sin leads to more sin. I have never heard of this theology. Please use bible verses to teach me this.
As for you being a WOF guy and a penicostal, I know that. I also know that not all WOF guys are false teachers. I don't believe you to be one. I really don't know anything about Kenneth Hagin, so I can't comment on him.
Now as far as Kenneth Copeland goes, He has left me an arsenol to use against him as has Benny Hinn. Do you really want to get into this about him or those guys. Then again I do consider keneth Copeland a part of the apostate church.

But for now please explain the part in bold to me.