The apostate church QUIZ ADDED 11 7 06

[golfjack]

reply

Jg, I think the part that you don't get is that our spirits have no sin. Paul calls this the real man or spirit man. Of course our flesh can sin, but this part of me is not the real me. As your question goes, I believe a lot is said in Proverbs about saying things out of our mouths that can make us or break us. I will look up some verses later. Therefore, if I call mysellf a sinner, that is probably what I would do. The Baptist Thelogy is this and I have witnessed this: Lord, I am just a lowly sinner, help me please. God iis spirit and can only respond to our spirits. So what the Baptist says is useless to God. This is the reason I left the Baptist church because it seemed like I was sinning more, and I know many of them come to the altar wanting to be saved again. But I can say, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Try it Jg, it works. Also try asking God to fill you with the Holy Spirit. I can gurantee that it will be life saving.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[jgredline]

Re: reply

Jg, I think the part that you don't get is that our spirits have no sin. Paul calls this the real man or spirit man. Of course our flesh can sin, but this part of me is not the real me. As your question goes, I believe a lot is said in Proverbs about saying things out of our mouths that can make us or break us. I will look up some verses later. Therefore, if I call mysellf a sinner, that is probably what I would do. The Baptist Thelogy is this and I have witnessed this: Lord, I am just a lowly sinner, help me please. God iis spirit and can only respond to our spirits. So what the Baptist says is useless to God. This is the reason I left the Baptist church because it seemed like I was sinning more, and I know many of them come to the altar wanting to be saved again. But I can say, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Try it Jg, it works. Also try asking God to fill you with the Holy Spirit. I can gurantee that it will be life saving.



May God bless, golfjack

Jack
I don't understand what you mean by this. Can you explian this to me. Give me the bible verses to so I can study them.

Jg, I think the part that you don't get is that our spirits have no sin. Paul calls this the real man or spirit man. Of course our flesh can sin, but this part of me is not the real me.

Thanks javier

 

[golfjack]

reply

Jg, I am glad I am a new creature. Something took place on the inside of me. It did seem like a load rolled of my chest. Not only something depart from me, but something came into me. I was not the same person. There was a change inside me.

In the New Birth, our spirits are recreated. Our bodies are not. It is in oour spirit where all things have become new. There is a man who lives inside the body. Paul calls him the inward man. He calls the body the outward man. ( 2 Cor. 4:16).

Peter calls this inner man the hidden man of the heart ( 1 Peter 3:4). The man is hidden to the physical eye. No one can see the real you, the inward man. You are on the inside looking out. The same thing is true with the people you know. You've never really seen the real man on the inside. You have only seen the house they live in. When a mans house is decayed, the real man still lives. The real man never dies. It is this inward man who becomes a new man in Christ. A new creation. It is the inward man who is born into the family of God, who is God's own child, and who is in perfect union with the Master.

1 Cor. 6:17 says: But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

The believer and Jesus are one. Jesus said, I am the vine, ye are the branches ( John 15:5). When you look at a tree you don't think of the branches as one part, and the rest of the tree as another part. You see it as one, as a unity. We are one with Christ. Our spirits are one with Him. Jesus is the head, we are the body.

1 John 4:4: Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that he is in the world. It says the same thing second Cor. 5:17 says: that if any man be in Christ he is a new creation. John is telling us we are born of God, that we have been born again, that our spirits have been recreated, that we are of God.

Anyway, this is what I have learned from probably the greatest earthly teacher in the 20th century, and has been confirmed by the Holy Spirit.


May God bless, golfjack

 

[golfjack]

reply

Sadly, many Christians don't know they are born of God, and that they have received Eternal Life ( the life and nature of God). They think Etrernal Life is something they are going to have when they get to heaven. Many think they have simply received forgiveness of sins.

If we have just been taught5 that our sins are forgiven and that we will remain justified only if we walk carefully before God and we have never been taught that the nature and substance of is within our spirits, then sin and Satan will continue to reign over us.

But when we know that the man on the inside, the real man, has been born again and is a new self in Christ Jesus, then we will rule and reign over Satan.


Jg. I hope this answers your questions.



May God bless, golfjjack

 

[jgredline]

Re: reply

Jg, I am glad I am a new creature. Something took place on the inside of me. It did seem like a load rolled of my chest. Not only something depart from me, but something came into me. I was not the same person. There was a change inside me.

Amen Jack. I can relate to this very same feeling. It was one I will never forget..

In the New Birth, our spirits are recreated. Our bodies are not. It is in oour spirit where all things have become new. There is a man who lives inside the body. Paul calls him the inward man. He calls the body the outward man. ( 2 Cor. 4:16).

Paul had been explaining his willingness to undergo all kinds of suffering and danger because he had before him the certain hope of resurrection. Therefore he did not lose heart. Although on the one hand, the process of physical decay was going on constantly, yet on the other hand there was a spiritual renewal which enabled him to go on in spite of every adverse circumstance.
The fact that the outward man is perishing needs little explanation or comment. It is all too evident in our bodies! But Paul is here rejoicing in the fact that God sends daily supplies of power for Christian service via the Holy Spirit.



Peter calls this inner man the hidden man of the heart ( 1 Peter 3:4). The man is hidden to the physical eye. No one can see the real you, the inward man. You are on the inside looking out. The same thing is true with the people you know. You've never really seen the real man on the inside. You have only seen the house they live in. When a mans house is decayed, the real man still lives. The real man never dies. It is this inward man who becomes a new man in Christ. A new creation. It is the inward man who is born into the family of God, who is God's own child, and who is in perfect union with the Master.

Jack
In this verse or section of scripture it has everything to do with Husbands and Wifes. I have looked at the context the past 20 minutes and don't see what you see. What I see is that the clothing which makes a believer genuinely attractive is the beauty of the hidden person. Fashionable coiffures, costly jewelry, and fine clothing are perishable. In presenting this vivid contrast, Peter challenges us to make a choice.
Men think jewels are precious; God considers precious the jewel of a gentle and quiet spirit.


1 Cor. 6:17 says: But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

The believer and Jesus are one. Jesus said, I am the vine, ye are the branches ( John 15:5). When you look at a tree you don't think of the branches as one part, and the rest of the tree as another part. You see it as one, as a unity. We are one with Christ. Our spirits are one with Him. Jesus is the head, we are the body.

Jack. I can see this verse adding some credibility to what you have said. I will need to take a closer look at it. On the surface this is what I see. Just as in the physical act there is a union of two into one, so when a person believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and is joined to Him, the believer and Christ become so united that they can henceforth be spoken of as one spirit. This is the most perfect merging of two persons that is possible. It is the closest type of a union. Paul’s argument, therefore, is that those who are thus joined to the Lord should never tolerate any type of union that would be in conflict with this spiritual wedlock.



1 John 4:4: Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that he is in the world. It says the same thing second Cor. 5:17 says: that if any man be in Christ he is a new creation. John is telling us we are born of God, that we have been born again, that our spirits have been recreated, that we are of God.

Jack
I love this part of scripture very much and have will need pages upon pages to comment on this, but for now lets keep it short and to the point. Remember the context in which John is writing here. There was an abundance of false teachers and aand the gnostics roaming around.
Having mentioned the Holy Spirit, John is reminded that there are other spirits abroad in the world today, and that the children of God need to be warned against them. Thus he cautions the believer not to trust every spirit. The word spirit here probably refers primarily to teachers but not exclusively so. Just because a man speaks about the Bible, God, and Jesus does not mean that he is a true child of God. We are to test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. These are people who profess to accept Christianity, but teach another gospel altogether.
John gives the actual tests by which these men are to be proven. The great test of a teacher is, “What do you think of Christ?†Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ who has come in the flesh is of God. It is not so much the confession of the historical fact, namely that Jesus was born into the world in a human body, but rather it is the confession of a living Person, Jesus Christ come in the flesh. It is the confession that acknowledges Jesus as the Christ Incarnate, GOD HIMSELF. And confessing Him means bowing to Him as Lord of one’s life. Now if you ever hear a person presenting the Lord Jesus as the true Christ of God, you will know that he is speaking by the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God calls on men to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and to commit their lives to Him. The Holy Spirit always glorifies Jesus.
And every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. This is how you can detect the false teachers. They do not confess the Jesus who was described in the previous verse. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which has been prophesied and which is now already in the world. There are many today who are willing to say acceptable things about Jesus, but they will not confess Him as God Incarnate. They will say that Christ is “divine,†but not that He is God. Sound familiar Jack. You know those whom I am speaking of and No you are not one.
4:4 Humble believers are able to overcome these false teachers because they have the Holy Spirit within them, and this enables them to detect error and to refuse to listen to it.
The false teachers are of the world and therefore, the source of all that they speak is the world. The world is the spring of all that they teach, and therefore the world hears them. This reminds us that the approval of the world is not a test as to the truthfulness of one’s teachings. If a man simply wants to be popular, all he needs to do is to speak as the world speaks, but if he is to be faithful to God, then he must face the disapproval of the world.
In verse 6, John speaks as representing the apostles. He says, “We are of God. He who knows God hears us.†This means that all who are really born of God will accept the teaching of the apostles found in the NT. On the other hand, those who are not of God refuse the testimony of the NT, or they seek to add to or adulterate it.



Anyway, this is what I have learned from probably the greatest earthly teacher in the 20th century, and has been confirmed by the Holy Spirit.

Jack Who was this great teacher?


May God bless, golfjack

Jack
While I have never heard the teaching that we are sinless after we become Christians, I will spend some more time looking into it.
The largest hurdle that I see here is how does one explain away Romans 7?
Paul refers to himself as a wretched man. A sinner.
None the less this is certainly not a salvation issue, so certainly we can agree to disagree.
Speaking for myself, I for one am a sinner who has been saved by Grace made riteous through the blood of Jesus Christ that allows me to approach a Holy God through Jesus Christ. In the same way that the apostle paul said he was the chief of sinners, I too am the same way.

 

[jgredline]

Re: reply

Sadly, many Christians don't know they are born of God, and that they have received Eternal Life ( the life and nature of God). They think Etrernal Life is something they are going to have when they get to heaven. Many think they have simply received forgiveness of sins.

If we have just been taught5 that our sins are forgiven and that we will remain justified only if we walk carefully before God and we have never been taught that the nature and substance of is within our spirits, then sin and Satan will continue to reign over us.

But when we know that the man on the inside, the real man, has been born again and is a new self in Christ Jesus, then we will rule and reign over Satan.


Jg. I hope this answers your questions.



May God bless, golfjjack

Jack
I agree with this statement.
As far as my questions go, I am still waiting on the answer to this question
I am still curious about this though.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject:
Jack
Please explain to me how preaching on sin leads to more sin. I have never heard of this theology. Please use bible verses to teach me this.

 

[golfjack]

reply

Jg. Perhaps we are comparing apples with oranges here. Christians know what sin is, but what I would preach is how to avoid sin. Where sin is, there the evil is. The devil is prowling around to see if he can devour. What tools does he use? He uses TV, that is for sure.When a Christian watches a dirty movie with a much sex,, he opens the door to many evil spirits. I believe there are pornagraphy evil spirits, drug evil spirits, asstrology evil spirits, books about withcraftt like Harry Potter, and occult books, evil spirits too, horoscope evil spirits, doubting evil spirits, religious evil spirits like ordaing a gay minister, abortion evil spirits, and many as it takes to enter the3 mind of a Christian. Now that we tell them what the causes are, then we balance it out with how good and joyful it is to be a Christian. Tell them what their position is in the Kingdom and who they are in Christ. Do you get my drift?



May God bless, golfjack

 

[golfjack]

reply

The answer to your question is the following: We have Christian attorny's, teachers, inteligent design experts, staticians, and many others who make up the body of Christ. Everyone has their calling for the benefit of the Body. A Statistician at Rhema took a survey and found that Baptist's do the most sinning. And they are the ones that preach sin all the time. Maybe you watch Jack VanImpe too much, just kidding. Also, I can confirm this with what I saw in the Baptist church because after church they went to the nearest bar and drank and smoked. Therefore, God has many avenues to help us.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[D46]

A Statistician at Rhema took a survey and found that Baptist's do the most sinning. And they are the ones that preach sin all the time. Maybe you watch Jack VanImpe too much, just kidding. Also, I can confirm this with what I saw in the Baptist church because after church they went to the nearest bar and drank and smoked. Therefore, God has many avenues to help us.

That's sthe biggest crock I've heard lately and I'm not even Baptist!! I needed a laugh tonight Jack...thanks.

I saw in the Baptist church because after church they went to the nearest bar and drank and smoked

That doesn't mean a thing. I use to be a professional photographer and have shot perhaps 5-6 Catholic weddings and the priest almost always accompanied the wedding party to the reception...drinking and smoking himself. I've seen it with other denominations as well. That doesn't tell you a thing. Worse things are done and seen on the computer than at a wedding reception or lounge.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Mar 9:33 ¶ And he came to Capernaum: and being in the house he asked them, What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way?
Mar 9:34 But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who [should be] the greatest.

Mat 18:1 ¶ At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

Remember the answer to this one?

 

[jgredline]

Re: reply

Jg. Perhaps we are comparing apples with oranges here. Christians know what sin is, but what I would preach is how to avoid sin.

The biggest differance that I say between you and I is that I say I am sinner who was saved by grace and made riteous through the sheeding of Jesus blood. just like the apostle Paul.

You say that you are no longer a sinner who was saved by grace and made riteous through the sheeding of Jesus blood.

I have never heard this teaching before and so it is new to me. I have never heard a Christian say he was not a sinner before, so I am curious as to how this theology came to be in your hands.

Where sin is, there the evil is. The devil is prowling around to see if he can devour. What tools does he use? He uses TV, that is for sure.When a Christian watches a dirty movie with a much sex,, he opens the door to many evil spirits.

I agree that the Christian opens himself up to oppression not to be confused with possesion.

I believe there are pornagraphy evil spirits, drug evil spirits, asstrology evil spirits, books about withcraftt like Harry Potter, and occult books, evil spirits too, horoscope evil spirits, doubting evil spirits, religious evil spirits like ordaing a gay minister, abortion evil spirits, and many as it takes to enter the3 mind of a Christian.

I do not believe this to be biblical at all. I used to believe this until I decided to read and study what the bible has to say about this. Do I believe in Demon Possesion YES!!! as I have been used by the Lord Jesus Christ to give him honor and Glory by casting some out of people. Do I believe they have names and there are demons have rankings? Yes. Do I believe there is a demon of eg abortion, murder, sex, lying. NO. There is no proof of this in the bible. You can maybe read into the account of legion, but thats a stretch.

What is this? the3 mind of a Christian.

Now that we tell them what the causes are, then we balance it out with how good and joyful it is to be a Christian. Tell them what their position is in the Kingdom and who they are in Christ. Do you get my drift?

Yes I agree with this.



May God bless, golfjack

I will ponder this some more.

 

[destiny]

I wanted to give a little testimony having to do with what is being discussed between jg and golfjack..
We came through the goldust craze, the laughing craze, and the tongues craze. Thats random order, I believe the tongues craze was first.
The church still seemed to miraculously maintain Godly standards and people who loved the Lord through all of that, although they had a history of running pastors off.
Finally they hired a pastor who knew nothing about the things of the spirit, nor did he preach the whole counsel of God. He omitted the parts in the bible which had to do with needing to be born again, sin, worldliness, or anything that spoke of taking up the cross and obeying God. You can be a false teacher and do a lot of damage through giving a false impression of who God is by way of not allowing whis whole character to come through scripture, by omission.
2 Corinthians 11:3-5
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not acceptedâ€â€you may well put up with it!

Notice the words 'corrupted' and 'different spirit' in those verses.

This pastor liked to make everybody feel good about themselves and he often bragged of his degree in psychology and the fact that he taught in a bible college for seven years.
What began to happen was the church became real materialistic and worldly and began to see Jesus as nothing but love, His character had been totally maligned and misrepresented by this man.
It looked like a fashion show in there on sunday mornings, and then a lot of the woman began getting plastic surgery, the womans bathroom became 'show and tell'.
The whole church was taken to a luke warm worldly condition because the pastor refused to preach against sin or step on toes.
Every person who left that church will give you the same basic reason ...'He refused to preach the whole word of God'.
I wittnessed the devastation of what preaching half truths and ear tickling sermons can do .
We as christians need our toes stepped on worse than the world because we are in a war, not only with the devil, but with our flesh; most of all with our flesh!
I will never be convinced any differently, I watched a whole church fall away because of one man who lulled it to sleep with constantly soft and pleasing messages.
Our main enemies come from within our own ranks....

2 Peter 2:1-3: "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies...Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be maligned; and in their greed they will exploit you..." Here, the attacks in the church are coming from within. Believers are in danger from those who profess to belong to Christ, who profess to be teaching truth. But they're really the emissaries of the devil. They are working from within to undermine the work of God, to lead believers astray and to destroy the testimony of the church. This is a far greater danger than attacks from the outside.

 

[golfjack]

reply

Well, I said my views, and stand by them. We all have to judge ourselves and not others. Destiiny, I am sorry that happened to you, but will refrain from judgment as I don't know the whole story. What do yopu think of Joel Osteen and Joyce Myers. Each of us has their anointings and personalities. I don't see anybody critizing Calvin and his patriarachs. That sure is false teaching.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[jgredline]

Destiny
Thank you for sharing that with us.
Our stories while not quite the same are very similar. This is why I preach that we must teach the whole counsel of God. Not just the feel good stuff, but the ugly stuff. It does start with in ourselves to recognize that we are sinners and are made oof dust. When other christians sin, we need to piont it out to them as the apostle John taught. I have been both the giver and the reciever of such things. I accept when people point out my sins to me. It hurts and does not feel good, but it is the way it is.

My best friend in the whole world, left my old church a little after I left. To this day he has not found another church. Truth is he is wounded right now. Only the ''Christian church'' (if you know what I mean)will kick a brother when he is down rather than give him a hand to get up.

IMO speaking of myself, The day I tell myself that I am not a sinner will be a bad, sad day for me as I would have made out myself to be God

Gabby
I appreciate your scriptures and I hear what your saying, which is why I am being very careful and have a few times agreed to disagee, but what I am I or you to do? I have God to be accountable to and if I am mistaken in my beliefs, then I should be corrected.

 

[jgredline]

Re: reply

The answer to your question is the following: We have Christian attorny's, teachers, inteligent design experts, staticians, and many others who make up the body of Christ. Everyone has their calling for the benefit of the Body. A Statistician at Rhema took a survey and found that Baptist's do the most sinning. And they are the ones that preach sin all the time. Maybe you watch Jack VanImpe too much, just kidding. Also, I can confirm this with what I saw in the Baptist church because after church they went to the nearest bar and drank and smoked. Therefore, God has many avenues to help us.



May God bless, golfjack

Jack
I am shocked at this statement. :o and this one takes the cake

Quote: golfjack: A Statistician at Rhema took a survey and found that Baptist's do the most sinning.

I am not a baptist by the way but by your remarks it sounds to me like you don't believe baptist are saved?

Jack
This problem with smoking and drinking would be everyplace, not just the baptist.

 

[golfjack]

reply

Jg. Did I say that Baptists aren't saved? I just stated the facts that I know of. Did you ever hear of the Barna research center? It is you that doesn't know what he is talking about. I can assure you there are evil spirits all arounnd, not just demonic possession. If one is demonic possessed, he's done because it attached itself to their spirits. Also, you attack some word of faith teachers and that just tells me you are a busybody. This is starting to get ugly and I am starting to get into my flesh. This will probably be my last post on this subject.


May God bless, golfjack

 

[jgredline]

Re: reply

Jg. Did I say that Baptists aren't saved?

No you did not say that. I apologize for that statement. Its just that since you don't believe that Christians sin, it sounded to ME like sinners are not Christians. I appologizr for this error.

I just stated the facts that I know of. Did you ever hear of the Barna research center?

No, but I will look into it and report what I find. When looking at these research centers, its important to look at the origins of it.


It is you that doesn't know what he is talking about.

Who are you talking about?

I can assure you there are evil spirits all arounnd, not just demonic possession.

I agree 100% I just don't believe they have personal names.

If one is demonic possessed, he's done because it attached itself to their spirits.

This is not true for Jesus Christ can set this person free as I have been witness to.

Also, you attack some word of faith teachers and that just tells me you are a busybody.

Prove me wrong. Show me where I have lied? I have not said what I have wanted to say about these WOLF preachers who fleece the sheep of God. I mean what some of these people do to other people is shameful to say the least. I know there are alot of WOLF people here on this forum and I am in the minority, but prove me wrong with the scriptures.

This is starting to get ugly and I am starting to get into my flesh. This will probably be my last post on this subject.

I tried to give you a way out by agreeing to disagee with you, but you kept coming back and now you want to run. Thats cool.
For the record I am not a Baptist or a Calvinist but my theology does lean twords the reform side although I am very Charasmatic and believe in the Gifts of the spirit

May God bless, golfjack

As far as Joel Osteen goes he is the very definition of the apstasy of the church.He is on record as saying all roads lead to heaven and has not repented of that teaching to this very day.

Joyce Meyer
Well here is a quote from her
Jesus Was Tormented and Paid the Price For Our Sins In Hell and Was Born-Again, You Cannot Go to Heaven Unless You Believe Jesus Went to Hell..

Do I really need to say more.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Re: reply

A Statistician at Rhema took a survey and found that Baptist's do the most sinning.

Luk 7:41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
Luk 7:42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?

 

[SputnikBoy]

The following may appear to be slanted questions, jg, but they ARE questions nonetheless.

You began this thread by talking of apostasy and false teachings and so on as though you are the authority on what is or what is not to be construed as apostasy. The reason for this self-appointed position of authority is because 'you are born again and Spirit-filled', is it not? Correct me if I'm wrong.

From my perspective it would appear that you have set yourself up as some kind of spiritural guru, an all-knowing oracle with a mind that is closed to all who might have something else to say or who otherwise oppose your beliefs in any way. These people must therefore be teaching this evil apostasy ...right? Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

My main question: Do you REALLY believe that YOU have the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God ...?

Please answer the questions at the earliest opportunity.

 

[Oscar3]

Here is another apostate
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/cgi-scr ... 003989.htm




Here is a story o this guy.
by Tashi Tagg

The Cure For Aids: Ernest Angley
Never did I think that anyone could make Ray McCauley look like an angel - but it's happened, because Ernest Angley is way more terrifying than McCauley could ever hope to be.

I had absolutely no idea that such a thing was masquerading as a person on our TV screens until I spotted him in the early hours of Saturday morning while channel hopping. I ended up nearly having a heart attack.

The show's called Ernest Angley Ministries. It's on eTV between 00h00 and 02h00 on Saturday morning and it's the most hectic thing ever. The man has to be the devil - not only because of the bullshit he delivers to get people to send him money but also because he's seriously undermining Aids education.

This is what freaked me out with an intensity that makes me wish I could actually just see you directly, because I can't write fast enough to express how I felt when I saw what he's up to!

When I started watching the show had been on for a while. There were four people on the stage singing and a huge audience of people singing along. The billboards on the stage had the name Ernest Angley Ministeries and something along the lines of "USA-Africa".

Because I didn't see the full show I'm not sure which African country it was all happening in - I think it could have been either Swaziland or Tanzania.

Whatever the case it was clear that he's using the Aids pandemic to make as much money as possible, promising people that they and their entire families can be healed of Aids through him.

And now I can kick myself because a little while ago I remember seeing something about a controversial minister going to Namibia and I see Angley's been there too - I'm thinking it has to be him.

I honestly don't know how any country can allow him in - let alone allow him to preach, let alone allow him on TV - because what he's doing is just so wrong. I mean, it's so wrong the only way to remain sane just thinking about it is to laugh hysterically.

This is exactly what I did - especially when it got the end of the show with him in a studio and he thrust his hand forward and said:

"Neighbour, it's time for you to come to the television screen if you can get there. If not just tip your hand toward heaven, because I'm going to pray for you who have death diseases - you who have Aids, Aids virus, untold thousands have been healed through this Jesus ministry.

"The Lord taught me this - medical science hasn't found the cure - but in the meantime God's healing Aids, Aids virus, going and coming, healing whole families and the God of miracles lives and the Lord loves you and nobody's ever loved you like Jesus loves you. Nobody's ever cared for you like Jesus cares.

"Lord I bring those people with death diseases with Aids, Aids virus, cancer, sugar diabetes, heart trouble, leprosy, lung trouble, matters not with you - heal!! - "

This is the point at which I nearly had the heart attack, because it was the most gobsmacking thing ever. It's impossible to explain the full extent of the horror when he said "heal", but trust me when I tell you that it's exactly the way I imagine the devil would be if he existed.

The only thing to top it was right at the very end when he finished by saying:

"Write to me: Ernest Angley, Akron, Ohio 44309 USA. Remember now - send in that offering (mumbo jumbo I can't work out) and let God bless you and he will do it - he will - he promised and he keeps his promises."

Can you believe the audacity?! All this coming after the way he'd just been manipulating thousands was altogether too much to cope with.

As I said, when I tuned in there were loads of people - everyone in the audience was singing, they stopped and then he started preaching with an interpreter by his side.

He looked out into the audience and said things like:

"There is a grandmother here - you have lost three people with Aids, haven't you? You have two grandchildren that you're helping to raise. When you came tonight you brought them in your heart - they both had Aids - they have now been cleansed says the Lord. No more Aids."

The thing is - there was no grandmother anywhere, because unlike the movie Leap Of Faith - where they actually called people up onto stage - he just looked out into the audience in a vague general sort of direction and didn't speak directly to anyone.

It took me a few minutes to work out what he was up to because I couldn't understand what was going on when he first started. I thought he really was focusing on someone and I was finished when I realised that he was just using big broad strokes, describing stereotypes of people in the audience as he expected them to be.

How can such a thing be allowed?! I mean, there wouldn't be thousands of people at his rallies if they didn't believe him, which means there are people who believe that Aids can be cured through him and that sending him money is a wise thing to do.

How can he be allowed to undermine the Aids message in this way? I just don't understand how he can't be arrested for it and I sooo wish Michael Moore would do a job on that face of his because I reckon it would tell the story absolutely as it is.

I've been browsing the Ernest Angley Ministeries website and these are the first words that greet you as you arrive:

"Time is running out; Jesus is coming soon. If you are not a partner in this Jesus World Outreach, become one today and send in your financial help each month."

From there follows what he'll do in return and a report on their most recent outreach in Lesotho and Namibia.

Here's a link to the story with scrolling pictures: Crusade Report From Gloria

Sooo - what do you think? Is he a devil in pastor's clothing?

Archive