The Apostles' Creed

[shad]

It seems that if you cannot recite the way the church wants you to, you are not a Christian.

This is the organization way. And they don't seem to care if you produce fruit as long as if you believe in the trinity.

 

[Free]

It seems that if you cannot recite the way the church wants you to, you are not a Christian.

This is the organization way. And they don't seem to care if you produce fruit as long as if you believe in the trinity.

No one has said that that is the case. The Bible makes it clear that correct belief leads to life and incorrect belief can lead to death.

 

[Mike]

It seems that if you cannot recite the way the church wants you to, you are not a Christian.

This is the organization way. And they don't seem to care if you produce fruit as long as if you believe in the trinity.

You don't have to recite the creeds word for word to agree with the doctrine stated. But you can't change the words to the point that it changes the meaning of them, or it would be in contrast to what we believe.

I'm not sure where you got your second statement. What we believe is stated in this (these) statement of faith. This doesn't speak to how we are called to respond to our faith. That response wouldn't be included in a statement of what we believe about our Triune God.

 

[jasoncran]

he's a nontrinatarian and is agianst the concept of eternal security.

 

[Mysteryman]

I believe in God
the father Almighty,
Maker of heaven and earth:
And in Jesus Christ
His only Son our Lord,
Who was concieved by the Holy Ghost,
Born of the Virgin Mary,
Suffered under Pontius Pilate,
Was crucified, dead, and buried;
He descended into hell;
The third day he rose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in
The Holy Ghost;
The Holy Catholic Church;
The Communion of Saints;
The forgiveness of sins;
The resurrection of the body;
And the life everlasting. (The Apostles' Creed)


Many times we as Christians focus on the differences in our faiths. If there is one universal statement of faith of the Church, this is it, the Apostles' Creed. Is there anyone, Catholic or Evangelical, who disagrees with this creed?
Westtexas

Hi all who have participated in this thread.

The creed starts out with -- "I believe"

Now think about this carefully for a moment. Let me ask you all this. What does the devil believe ? Guess what ? He also believes in the creed. A false brethren believes in the creed. Why do you think that the adversary of God, which includes false brethren, would also believe in the creed ? They believe everything that is said in the creed, even though they are against everything said in the creed.

The devil would never have tempted the Lord Jesus Christ, unless he believed that he was indeed the Son of God. The temptation would have been worthless in all aspects , if Jesus was just another ordinary guy.

As stupid as we tend to believe that the devils is at times. The truth is, he is not that stupid as we sometimes render his actions by. In fact, he knows the Word of God better than 98 % of most Christians who read the bible daily.

People tend to want something physical to remember by. Be it a cross or a creed that can be recited word for word without any deviation.

When you say the creed in church, the false brethren sitting right beside you is saying it right along with you.

The Word of God teaches a Christian, that we walk by the Spirit, not by sight, nor by our ears !

In the book of Ephesians it states -- "Unity of the Spirit" and then goes on to explain all the one's. Never are we taught from scripture that unity comes from a creed or a doctrine.

One must walk in the Spirit and have the Spirit of his Son in your hearts before one can claim anything. Anyone can recite a code or a creed all day long. And it actually is good for nothing.

For with the heart man believes unto righteousness.

Notice within the creed, it states that you believe in the resurrection of the body. < Yet, the creed does not quote Romans 10:9. The adversary of God believes the creed, that there is a resurrection of the body. But he will not confess with his heart nor his mouth that God raised his Son from the dead.


This is because the creed is too vague, simplified for the general public, especially the unlearned. It sounds good, looks good , seems good, but is only as good as man wrote it. And if simple man wrote it, it is flawed ! It does not project what the scriptures project. It simplifies the scriptures to the point that the true meaning is lost. It leaves way too much room for the imagination and the personnal interpretation of the individual saying the creed.

God never inspired the creed, so God never asked you to say or recite the man made creed. And that goes for saying the rosary as well. MAN made traditions of men.

 

[shad]

Well said MM, amen.

.

 

[jasoncran]

no one said that is NECESSARY for salvation

mm, shad does your church have an order of service, a definition of what they believe in, a doctrine of sorts?

or its this we beleive in the bible? and solo scriptura and so on. if so that is a creed its self.

 

[shad]

no one said that is NECESSARY for salvation

mm, shad does your church have an order of service, a definition of what they believe in, a doctrine of sorts?

or its this we beleive in the bible? and solo scriptura and so on. if so that is a creed its self.

My family is my church and we don't have any creed. We just study the Bible. We strive to obey everything that Jesus teaches and commands. We don't cherry pick anything.

 

[jasoncran]

that is a creed. you have stated to me what you believe in.

when i visit your house i would be able to know what you believe. that is what a creed is. a creedo can be written and unwritten

btw how do you know that you may be in error or are correct in your view of the bible?

do you have someone to ask and doublecheck you. that is what the elders are for and the pastors. to correct the flock and exhort.

francisdales has a point to this. someone must check the guy and one must have the anoiting to be lead and verify what the bible is saying. for whom to did the apostles go to?

 

[shad]

that is a creed. you have stated to me what you believe in.

Your creed is the believe in the trinity. This is what is behind your creed. That's what makes yours corrupt. Even though the trinity is not there, you somehow menage to creep that in.

 

[jasoncran]

let us not turn this into a trinity debate. however please feel free into entering the jw debate on the trinity and back you what you say with verses.

free will gladly engage you on this and so will others.

so i assume that you have a creed of sorts. and you never did answer the question? how do you know that you have the correct view? to whom or what do you refer to.

some one must check you. i have my pastor and elders that i ask. they in turn will go up to the demonational headquarters. and so on.

 

[shad]

some one must check you. i have my pastor and elders that i ask. they in turn will go up to the demonational headquarters. and so on.

What are you talking about????????????

 

[jasoncran]

when you read the bible for yourself and are puzzled, and need answers , outside of prayer to whom to go to make sure that you have the proper understanding.

the flesh will answer those prayers on biblical interpretation

we are called to go to chruch and recieve correction from the pastor. that verse on the bible is good for correction was written to a pastor. and it can interpretated that way.

for instance dadof10 has mentioned acts 15 in another thread, i am unsure how my pastor gets his guidance on certain doctrinals truths when there's a major disagreement. so i will ask him.

in the local chruch level the elders will deal with this along with the pastor,but when its between to churches of the same denomation what then?

 

[Free]

Hi all who have participated in this thread.

The creed starts out with -- "I believe"

Now think about this carefully for a moment. Let me ask you all this. What does the devil believe ? Guess what ? He also believes in the creed. A false brethren believes in the creed. Why do you think that the adversary of God, which includes false brethren, would also believe in the creed ? They believe everything that is said in the creed, even though they are against everything said in the creed.

The devil would never have tempted the Lord Jesus Christ, unless he believed that he was indeed the Son of God. The temptation would have been worthless in all aspects , if Jesus was just another ordinary guy.

As stupid as we tend to believe that the devils is at times. The truth is, he is not that stupid as we sometimes render his actions by. In fact, he knows the Word of God better than 98 % of most Christians who read the bible daily.

People tend to want something physical to remember by. Be it a cross or a creed that can be recited word for word without any deviation.

When you say the creed in church, the false brethren sitting right beside you is saying it right along with you.

The Word of God teaches a Christian, that we walk by the Spirit, not by sight, nor by our ears !

In the book of Ephesians it states -- "Unity of the Spirit" and then goes on to explain all the one's. Never are we taught from scripture that unity comes from a creed or a doctrine.

One must walk in the Spirit and have the Spirit of his Son in your hearts before one can claim anything. Anyone can recite a code or a creed all day long. And it actually is good for nothing.

For with the heart man believes unto righteousness.

Notice within the creed, it states that you believe in the resurrection of the body. < Yet, the creed does not quote Romans 10:9. The adversary of God believes the creed, that there is a resurrection of the body. But he will not confess with his heart nor his mouth that God raised his Son from the dead.


This is because the creed is too vague, simplified for the general public, especially the unlearned. It sounds good, looks good , seems good, but is only as good as man wrote it. And if simple man wrote it, it is flawed ! It does not project what the scriptures project. It simplifies the scriptures to the point that the true meaning is lost. It leaves way too much room for the imagination and the personnal interpretation of the individual saying the creed.

God never inspired the creed, so God never asked you to say or recite the man made creed. And that goes for saying the rosary as well. MAN made traditions of men.

You really don't have a good argument anywhere in there. As has been clearly stated more than once, this is a summation of doctrines, not some sort of confession by which one is saved.

 

[shad]

we are called to go to chruch and recieve correction from the pastor. that verse on the bible is good for correction was written to a pastor. and it can interpretated that way.

We know them by their fruit. I don't go to any church that is corrupt in their practices for questions. The Holy Spirit helps us what we need to know.

 

[dadof10]

I have seen men too often take the ball from God in order to run it forward themselves. Behind this desire to see increase there lies usually an ambition to make a name for themselves.

Me too. It happened at the Reformation.

It is wise to leave the running of the church to God.

How does this look, practically speaking? How does God "run the church" without using men to communicate His will, as He has done throughout history, starting with Abraham? You could believe, as some do, in private Bible interpretation alone, but doesn't "church" assume more than one person and a continuity of doctrine?

The "running of the church" is done by God, through people who write Creeds. This is the Biblical way.

 

[dadof10]

We know them by their fruit. I don't go to any church that is corrupt in their practices for questions. The Holy Spirit helps us what we need to know.

Aren't you SDA? They have a set of beliefs posted on their website. They claim "Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures", then go on to list 28 of these "fundamental beliefs" they get from Scripture which, I assume, you must hold to be SDA. How is this different than the set of beliefs codified in the Apostles or Nicaean Creed?

http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

 

[Mike]

The creed starts out with -- "I believe"

Now think about this carefully for a moment. Let me ask you all this. What does the devil believe ? Guess what ? He also believes in the creed. A false brethren believes in the creed. Why do you think that the adversary of God, which includes false brethren, would also believe in the creed ? They believe everything that is said in the creed, even though they are against everything said in the creed.

The devil would never have tempted the Lord Jesus Christ, unless he believed that he was indeed the Son of God. The temptation would have been worthless in all aspects , if Jesus was just another ordinary guy.

MM, you've used this argument about the devil before, and quite frankly, it holds no merit. There is only One Truth. Satan was an angel of the Lord, and of course he knows it. What people and Satan know, is not enough. It's how they respond to that knowledge. Do they try to usurp the Lord or dismiss Him, or do they fall at His feet and put themselves at His Mercy? Again, this is a "statement of faith". It's what we know is True. It's not intended to be all-encompassing and include how we are to respond to what that statement is.

People tend to want something physical to remember by. Be it a cross or a creed that can be recited word for word without any deviation.

If we studied this statement, and it became our Gospel or Scripture, I could see your point, but we say this (as we do in America, "The Pledge of Allegiance" as a lesser example) to consolidate what we know to be true, and we stay in the Word, living our lives for Him.

When you say the creed in church, the false brethren sitting right beside you is saying it right along with you.

Does it make the words any less True if someone says them and doesn't believe them or respond to them? Who's the liar, the creed or the false brethren?

Notice within the creed, it states that you believe in the resurrection of the body. < Yet, the creed does not quote Romans 10:9. The adversary of God believes the creed, that there is a resurrection of the body. But he will not confess with his heart nor his mouth that God raised his Son from the dead.

Again, MM, it's not Inspired writing. We know that. It is a summary of our beliefs. None of it is untrue. I know you have differing opinions on the matter, so in there your objection lies. But, as Christians, this is how we concisely put together the core tenets of our belief. It flows together and logically assembles the nature of God as we believe it; The One Triune God, from the Father, to the Son, to the Holy Spirit, to our Church. We could give verses here and there directly from the Bible, but in some cases, a singe verse could be taken out of context; you would need to recite a section of verses. If someone asks you what you believe, do you start citing verses verbatim? It will take you quite a while to pull all the scripture you can to clearly lay out your faith. If you're talking to an unbeliever, you will likely confuse them. You need to talk in their language. We use our own language all the time to state what we believe. Here on the boards, we don't copy and paste Scripture alone. We try to use both. And that's what we do in the Church. We use both.

This is because the creed is too vague, simplified for the general public, especially the unlearned. It sounds good, looks good , seems good, but is only as good as man wrote it. And if simple man wrote it, it is flawed ! It does not project what the scriptures project. It simplifies the scriptures to the point that the true meaning is lost. It leaves way too much room for the imagination and the personnal interpretation of the individual saying the creed.

God never inspired the creed, so God never asked you to say or recite the man made creed. And that goes for saying the rosary as well. MAN made traditions of men.

Christians do not see these statements within the statement as vague or flawed. You see them as flawed, because you reject that Jesus was and is God, and in doing so, reject the Triune God. There is nothing in this creed that defies what Christians know is True, and replaces them with traditions we have made up. You may have mistakenly come to the conclusion that Jesus isn't God, but that doesn't make it false. It makes your belief false.

Be blessed, my mysterious friend.
Mike

 

[Vic C.]

I have seen men too often take the ball from God in order to run it forward themselves. Behind this desire to see increase there lies usually an ambition to make a name for themselves.

Me too. It happened at the Reformation. ...

Ahem... this is what the the OP was looking to avoid.

 

[jasoncran]

we are called to go to chruch and recieve correction from the pastor. that verse on the bible is good for correction was written to a pastor. and it can interpretated that way.

We know them by their fruit. I don't go to any church that is corrupt in their practices for questions. The Holy Spirit helps us what we need to know.

so again how do know which spirit is telling you the truth?
by checking yourself?

the bible itsself was put together by men who argued over the trinity and came to accept it. men whom were in persuction and risked their lives at times to preach and teach the word, yet they prayed and decided that lord wanted in the bible to be what the bible was to be. and what the basic doctrine would be.

so what part of the bible do you now have the right to disagree that shouldnt be in there?

fyi i am not catholic, but i think that its dangerous to just call a home chruch and read the bible with know one to consult when you might have errors. what if the lord calls you to a man that you may not agree with and you feel him( the lord) tell you are in err and this man will teach you the truth.