The Author of salvation to those obeying Him !

[XTruth]

I just posted this in the "perfect" thread... but it needs to be here......

Five Commands to be Perfect:

1. To Abraham (Genesis 17:1)
2. To Israel (Deut. 18:13)
3. To Solomon (1 Kings 8:61)
4. To Christians (2 Cor. 13:11)
5. To Every Human (Mat.5:48)

Ten Things in which We can be Perfect:

1. In our walk (Genesis 17:1; Galatians 5:16,25)
2. In holiness (2 Cor. 7:1; Hebrews 12:14)
3. In our ways (2 Samuel 22:33; Psalm 18:32)
4. In peace (Isaiah 26:3)
5. In unity (John 17:23; 1 Cor. 1:10; Ephes. 4:13)
6. In good works (Hebrews 13:21; 2 Tim. 3:17)
7. In God's will (Romans 12:1-2)
8. In patience (James 1:4)
9. In faith (James 2:22)
10. In love (1 John 2:5; 1 John 4:17-18)

We are to be perfect now... meaning complete in conformity to the entire covenant/Word/gospel program. It simply means to be sin free. We must be obedient to come to Jesus for remission of all past sins and then be obedient to continue following Him. It's the same as when John told us to be as pure as Christ (1 Jn.3:1-5) and when Peter tells us to be as holy as God (1 Pt.1:15-17). We can be perfect/ righteous/ holy/ pure/ faultless/ blameless/ without blemish, wrinkle, spot or any such thing NOW...But it is not unforfeitable until the overcomer dies or is raptured.

Salvation is a hope and not actually an unforfeitable possession until the next life (1Th. 5:8; Rom. 8:20-25; 2Th. 2:16; 1Pet. 1:5,9,13). Eternal life is also a hope now, even though we possess it (Tit. 1:2; 3:7; Heb. 3:6; 6:11,11,18-19; 1Pet. 1:3,13). It will not actually be an unforfeitable and an eternal possession until the next life and at the end of a life of sowing to the Spirit (Mt. 7:13-14; 18:8-9; 19:28-29; Mk. 10:29-30; Lk. 18:29-30; Rom. 2:7; 6:21-23; Gal. 6:7-8; 1Tim. 1:16; 4:8; 6:12,19; 1Pet. 1:5,9,13; 3:7; 1Jn. 2:25; Jude 1:20-24; Dan. 12:2; Jn. 5:28-29).

Does this make sense???

 

[savedbygrace57]

franc:

We are NOT perfect before God even before we were born!

Those whom christ offered himself to God for are !

heb 10:

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

[glorydaz]

I just posted this in the "perfect" thread... but it needs to be here......

Five Commands to be Perfect:

1. To Abraham (Genesis 17:1)
2. To Israel (Deut. 18:13)
3. To Solomon (1 Kings 8:61)
4. To Christians (2 Cor. 13:11)
5. To Every Human (Mat.5:48)

Ten Things in which We can be Perfect:

1. In our walk (Genesis 17:1; Galatians 5:16,25)
2. In holiness (2 Cor. 7:1; Hebrews 12:14)
3. In our ways (2 Samuel 22:33; Psalm 18:32)
4. In peace (Isaiah 26:3)
5. In unity (John 17:23; 1 Cor. 1:10; Ephes. 4:13)
6. In good works (Hebrews 13:21; 2 Tim. 3:17)
7. In God's will (Romans 12:1-2)
8. In patience (James 1:4)
9. In faith (James 2:22)
10. In love (1 John 2:5; 1 John 4:17-18)

We are to be perfect now... meaning complete in conformity to the entire covenant/Word/gospel program. It simply means to be sin free. We must be obedient to come to Jesus for remission of all past sins and then be obedient to continue following Him. It's the same as when John told us to be as pure as Christ (1 Jn.3:1-5) and when Peter tells us to be as holy as God (1 Pt.1:15-17). We can be perfect/ righteous/ holy/ pure/ faultless/ blameless/ without blemish, wrinkle, spot or any such thing NOW...But it is not unforfeitable until the overcomer dies or is raptured.

Salvation is a hope and not actually an unforfeitable possession until the next life (1Th. 5:8; Rom. 8:20-25; 2Th. 2:16; 1Pet. 1:5,9,13). Eternal life is also a hope now, even though we possess it (Tit. 1:2; 3:7; Heb. 3:6; 6:11,11,18-19; 1Pet. 1:3,13). It will not actually be an unforfeitable and an eternal possession until the next life and at the end of a life of sowing to the Spirit (Mt. 7:13-14; 18:8-9; 19:28-29; Mk. 10:29-30; Lk. 18:29-30; Rom. 2:7; 6:21-23; Gal. 6:7-8; 1Tim. 1:16; 4:8; 6:12,19; 1Pet. 1:5,9,13; 3:7; 1Jn. 2:25; Jude 1:20-24; Dan. 12:2; Jn. 5:28-29).

Does this make sense???

It makes perfect sense if you approach faith and grace with your human understanding. There are no ifs ands or buts when a person is born again. We enter into eternal life and the blood is how we get there...not by our own righteousness but Christ's.

 

[glorydaz]

franc:

We are NOT perfect before God even before we were born!

Those whom christ offered himself to God for are !

heb 10:

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Forever after being sanctified. There is none righteous prior to that.

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory:

Forever after being sanctified

right and they are sanctified by the death of christ..heb 10:

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The offering of the body of Jesus christ is the same as His death on the cross, that is what sanctified the elect of God, and as it states in vs 14, we are [ the sanctified] perfected forever by that same offering of the body of Jesus christ..

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

I have already explained this already, you just reject truth, as God has ordained for you to..

 

[savedbygrace57]

fran:

Christ is MANKIND'S representative

The elect of mankind..the seed of abraham..heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

 

[francisdesales]

franc:


Those whom christ offered himself to God for are !

heb 10:

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

We aren't sanctified before we were born. Look again at the sentence you quoted...

THOSE SANCTIFIED are being perfected. NO ONE is sanctified before they were born.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

The elect of mankind..the seed of abraham..heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Christ is MANKIND'S representative. The citation says nothing about that...

 

[savedbygrace57]

fran:

Christ is MANKIND'S representative

Sorry, but He represents the seed of abraham..

heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren [the seed of abraham], that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people [seed of abraham].

 

[francisdesales]

heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren [the seed of abraham], that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people [seed of abraham].

Christ is mankind's representative. It behooves us to be made like Him...

 

[savedbygrace57]

heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren [the seed of abraham], that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people [seed of abraham].

Christ is mankind's representative. It behooves us to be made like Him...

heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren [the seed of abraham], that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people [seed of abraham].

Sorry, all mankind does not belong to the seed of abraham..

 

[francisdesales]

Sorry, all mankind does not belong to the seed of abraham..

All men can become the seed of abraham by faith in God. God broke down the wall that separates Jews from Gentiles.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Sorry, all mankind does not belong to the seed of abraham..

All men can become the seed of abraham by faith in God. God broke down the wall that separates Jews from Gentiles.

All men can become the seed of abraham by faith in God.

No they cannot, the seed of abraham are like Isaac was children of promise..gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

God had already given Him his seed by promise, as He did isaac..The seed of abraham can no more become the seed of abraham as isaac on his own became the seed of abraham..

 

[glorydaz]

Sorry, all mankind does not belong to the seed of abraham..

All men can become the seed of abraham by faith in God. God broke down the wall that separates Jews from Gentiles.

Amen....whosoever will come by faith.

 

[Drew]

Sorry, all mankind does not belong to the seed of abraham..

All men can become the seed of abraham by faith in God. God broke down the wall that separates Jews from Gentiles.

I believe that you have captured the essence of what it means to be "the seed of Abraham". In Romans at least, Paul is not using the concept of the "seed of Abraham" to denote a specific set of pre-destined individuals. The "seed of Abraham" for Paul is rather a category, and Paul uses the concept to distinguish between these two views:

1. The family of Abraham to which promises were made is made up of Jews only;
2. The family of Abraham to which promises were made is made up of both Jews and Gentiles.

Paul argues for point number 2. Paul came from a Jewish world that believed that the family of God - the "seed" of Abraham - was limited to Jews. Paul disputes this. The notion of the "seed of Abraham" is a way to refer to a class or category of persons, not to a set of specific indiviiduals.

 

[Drew]

All men can become the seed of abraham by faith in God. God broke down the wall that separates Jews from Gentiles.

No they cannot, the seed of abraham are like Isaac was children of promise..gen 17:

The problem with this argument is that it simply assumes that a specific set of individuals is what the "seed" denotes. That could be the case, but one needs to consider the possiblity that Paul is talking about nations and races, not specific persons. And I suggest that such is indeed the case.

 

[Joe67]

Jesus of Nazareth, a man anointed of God, the holy One of Israel, is a specific man, the head of a specific Body of priests who do and will minister to the nations the unsearchable riches of Christ; i.e., the Father and the Son.

Jesus of Nazareth was a specific descendant of David and thereby Abraham through Isaac and then Jacob and his descendants. This specific salvation was ordained of the Father of all spirits to be a blessing to all the families/nations of the earth. The earth is the Lord's and all the inhabitants of it.

Abraham's other sons by Hagar and Keturah are not of the lineage of Isaac, but are blessed by the lineage of Isaac, unless they scoff at God's promises through Isaac.

Joe

 

[francisdesales]

All men can become the seed of abraham by faith in God.

No they cannot, the seed of abraham are like Isaac was children of promise..gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

God had already given Him his seed by promise, as He did isaac..The seed of abraham can no more become the seed of abraham as isaac on his own became the seed of abraham..

Abraham is our father, and not because we are Jews...

 

[glorydaz]

Sorry, all mankind does not belong to the seed of abraham..

All men can become the seed of abraham by faith in God. God broke down the wall that separates Jews from Gentiles.

I believe that you have captured the essence of what it means to be "the seed of Abraham". In Romans at least, Paul is not using the concept of the "seed of Abraham" to denote a specific set of pre-destined individuals. The "seed of Abraham" for Paul is rather a category, and Paul uses the concept to distinguish between these two views:

1. The family of Abraham to which promises were made is made up of Jews only;
2. The family of Abraham to which promises were made is made up of both Jews and Gentiles.

Paul argues for point number 2. Paul came from a Jewish world that believed that the family of God - the "seed" of Abraham - was limited to Jews. Paul disputes this. The notion of the "seed of Abraham" is a way to refer to a class or category of persons, not to a set of specific indiviiduals.

True...those with faith.

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

 

[savedbygrace57]

All men can become the seed of abraham by faith in God.

No they cannot, the seed of abraham are like Isaac was children of promise..gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

God had already given Him his seed by promise, as He did isaac..The seed of abraham can no more become the seed of abraham as isaac on his own became the seed of abraham..

Abraham is our father, and not because we are Jews...

Who said anything about abraham being our father because one is a jew ?

God made abraham a Father of many nations back in gen 17 5..this is spiritual not by the flesh, for abraham is not a father of many nations by being a fleshly jew..for by being a jew he was the father of only one nation, but the promise is a father of many nations..

And if he was father then in gen 17 5, then the children were children, but just not yet born..