Bible Study The authority of the law: Romans 7

[Jethro Bodine]

1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man. " (Romans 7:1-2 NIV)

I suppose the law Paul is referring to could be either Roman civil law, or the law of Moses. But the example he gives leans more towards the law of Moses.

 

[reba]

I go with the laws of the OT

 

[Douglas Summers]

1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man. " (Romans 7:1-2 NIV)

I suppose the law Paul is referring to could be either Roman civil law, or the law of Moses. But the example he gives leans more towards the law of Moses.

Agreed.

 

[JLB]

ut the example he gives leans more towards the law of Moses.

Yes sir.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” Romans 7:7

 

[th1b.taylor]

You're dead on Jethro but try to teach this truth and the same people that agree with you, now, will turn faster than a heart attack. God bless Brother.

 

[Chopper]

I like....
Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mat 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Mat 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
Mat 19:11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given."
(Scripture KJV taken from e-Sword)

 

[JLB]

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. Romans 7:4

This is one of those scriptures that show Christ as being YHWH, the Lord God of the Old Testament, the Husband of the children of Israel, as well as The Husband of the Church.

Old Testament scriptures showing, the Lord as The Husband of the children of Israel:

• For your Maker is your husband, The Lord of hosts is His name;And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth. Isaiah 54:5

• 31 “You erected your shrine at the head of every road, and built your high place in every street. Yet you were not like a harlot, because you scorned payment.32 You are an adulterous wife, who takes strangers instead of her husband. 33 Men make payment to all harlots, but you made your payments to all your lovers, and hired them to come to you from all around for your harlotry. 34 You are the opposite of other women in your harlotry, because no one solicited you to be a harlot. In that you gave payment but no payment was given you, therefore you are the opposite.” Ezekiel 16:31-34

• Surely, as a wife treacherously departs from her husband, So have you dealt treacherously with Me, O house of Israel,” says the Lord. Jeremiah 3:20

The children of Israel were redeemed from the law, through the death of the Covenant Maker, Christ, that they may be joined to the One who was raised from the dead, through the New Covenant....you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, is a reference to the Word [law] that became flesh. When His body died the law died with it.

In the flesh is a reference to, without the Spirit: But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:9


The New Testament scriptures showing the Lord as our Husband -

• For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:2

• 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32

JLB

 

[jocor]

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. Romans 7:4

This is one of those scriptures that show Christ as being YHWH, the Lord God of the Old Testament, the Husband of the children of Israel, as well as The Husband of the Church.

I see you are derailing this thread as well in order to push your Jesus is YHWH doctrine. Paul is addressing his Israelite brothers who knew Torah (Rom 7:1). Were those brothers he is addressing married to YHWH? You seem to say this in the last sentence. However, now that they believed on Yeshua, they become his bride. Is that correct so far?
So, if through their spiritual death they are freed from their marriage to YHWH and are free to marry Yeshua, why does Paul say, "that you may be married to another"? If Yeshua was YHWH, then they are freed from being married to YHWH so that they can marry YHWH???

 

[jocor]

1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man. " (Romans 7:1-2 NIV)

I suppose the law Paul is referring to could be either Roman civil law, or the law of Moses. But the example he gives leans more towards the law of Moses.

I believe the "law" referred to is Torah, aka "the law of Moses".

May I ask what significance this has for you?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I believe the "law" referred to is Torah, aka "the law of Moses".

May I ask what significance this has for you?

We'll be going verse by verse in this chapter about the authority of the law. He starts with the assertion that the authority of the law is over the living (not over those who have died) in the form of a rhetorical question:

"...the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives?" (Romans 7:1 NASB)

Of course, we want to establish what law Paul is talking about, for even civil law has no authority over dead people. Let's study the passage carefully and thoughtfully and see what Paul is saying this authority of the law is that ends when a death has occurred. We're all in agreement that Paul is addressing the law of Moses concerning marriage . So let's pick up where we left off:

"4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God." (Romans 7:4 NASB)

He says we were made to die to the law through the body of Christ. What death did we die through the body of Christ that sets us free from the authority of the law to keep us bound in marriage to whom we were once married to, but who has now died? He just got through talking about that in Romans 6...

"How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death...6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7for he who has died is freed from sin." (Romans 6:2-4,6-7 NASB)

Our sin nature is what died through the death of the body of Christ--that is what has died...and how it died. His death set us free from the body of sin--our sin nature. Sin is the one that died in this 'marital' union between us and sin--a marital union that we will see was enforced by the law. Therefore, the law that demanded that we stay in relationship with sinful flesh no longer has the authority/power to enforce that relationship.

So let's recap: We are released from the authority of the law of marriage because a death has occurred (the law of marriage only has authority over the living). The marriage partner that died was sinful flesh. 'He' died with Christ on the cross. That being true, we (the wife) are now legitimately entitled to be married to another husband and Master, whom Paul says is Jesus Christ.

We died to sin so we can now be joined in marital bliss to Jesus Christ and bear fruit to Him now, instead of bearing fruit to a now deceased ex-husband and master called 'sin'. The fruit we bear to Christ is fruit unto life, while the fruit we bore to our flesh was fruit unto death.

Hang in here with us jocor. You will like this thread. We all will.

 

[jocor]

I'll hang in there Jethro. I like it already, but beware. If I like it, there will be many who oppose it.

 

[JLB]

I see you are derailing this thread as well in order to push your Jesus is YHWH doctrine. Paul is addressing his Israelite brothers who knew Torah (Rom 7:1). Were those brothers he is addressing married to YHWH? You seem to say this in the last sentence. However, now that they believed on Yeshua, they become his bride. Is that correct so far?
So, if through their spiritual death they are freed from their marriage to YHWH and are free to marry Yeshua, why does Paul say, "that you may be married to another"? If Yeshua was YHWH, then they are freed from being married to YHWH so that they can marry YHWH???

Yes, they are freed from the One who gave them the Law, so that they can be married to another, the One who was raised from the dead.

For your Maker is your husband, The Lord of hosts is His name; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth. Isaiah 54:5

The [Word] Law became flesh, and that flesh died, being nailed to the cross, with it the law was also nailed to the cross.

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:14

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Colossians 2:14-15


Because of this, those who were under the law, were delivered from the law, and are now espoused to the One who was raised from the dead. This is to say, Jesus Christ, the Savior and Lord and King of Israel.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'll hang in there Jethro. I like it already, but beware. If I like it, there will be many who oppose it.

Good, glad you like it. And, yes, I know there will be opposition to various points along the way. But I honestly think we all can have some good brotherly discussion that will edify all of us.

 

[JLB]

Sin is the one that died in this 'marital' union between us and sin-

Sin died?

I thought it was Christ that died, and with Him the law?

I know we also can be declared dead to sin, through baptism, into the likeness of His death.

For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
Romans 6:5

I also know it's up to us to exercise dominion over the sin in our body, and to keep our body mortified to it's lust's by being filled with the Spirit.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13



This should be a good Bible Study, as it's topic is is one that we all need to know more about.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes, they are freed from the One who gave them the Law, so that they can be married to another, the One who was raised from the dead.

The [Word] Law became flesh, and that flesh died, being nailed to the cross, with it the law was also nailed to the cross.

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:14

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Colossians 2:14-15


Because of this, those who were under the law, were delivered from the law, and are now espoused to the One who was raised from the dead. This is to say, Jesus Christ, the Savior and Lord and King of Israel.


JLB

In context, Romans 7 is talking about the death of the sin nature. And because the sin nature is now crucified in Christ the law has no more legal power--like the power of a marriage certificate--to keep me in a relationship in which I, the wife, bears husband sin nature's fruit after his likeness. So it is in that way--in the context of this passage--that we are no longer 'under' the law. We are no longer under it's power and authority to make us sin out of legal obedience to now deceased ex-husband 'body of sin'. I'm out of time, but I'll post the next passages later.

So, what you've posted above concerns another matter about being 'under' the law of Moses. We will stumble into that particular matter you've raised in time. But for now Paul is addressing this matter of being under the authority of the law in regard to it making us sin in obedience to 'husband' sin nature and it's authority and power to condemn us for doing that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This should be a good Bible Study, as it's topic is is one that we all need to know more about.

Amen, bro.
Even in our differences I think we'll all get a lot out of studying this passage.
Off to do more brain surgeries.
Next!......

 

[JLB]

In context, Romans 7 is talking about the death of the sin nature. And because the sin nature is now crucified in Christ the law has no more legal power--like the power of a marriage certificate--to keep me in a relationship in which I, the wife, bears husband sin nature's fruit after his likeness. So it is in that way--in the context of this passage--that we are no longer 'under' the law. We are no longer under it's power and authority to make us sin out of legal obedience to now deceased ex-husband 'body of sin'. I'm out of time, but I'll post the next passages later.

So, what you've posted above concerns another matter about being 'under' the law of Moses. We will stumble into that particular matter you've raised in time. But for now Paul is addressing this matter of being under the authority of the law in regard to it making us sin in obedience to 'husband' sin nature and it's authority and power to condemn us for doing that.

Ok, I will point to what Paul is saying from another direction.

3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, Romans 7:3-4

Paul plainly states... you also have become dead to the law, through the body of Christ.

Based on what you see here as "husband is sin nature", I would be an adulteress for obeying the nature of Christ?


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul plainly states... you also have become dead to the law, through the body of Christ.

Yes, we have become 'dead to the law' (vs. 4) in regard to the law being able to keep us in a contractual, obedient relationship with sin:

5For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:5-6 NASB)

We have been released from the law in that we have been released from it's power to arouse sin in us, the law acting like a lawful certificate of marriage that enforced the marital relationship we had with sinful flesh in which we obeyed sin's dictates like a wife lawfully obligated to submit to her husband. But now that husband 'sin nature' has died the law can't enforce that relationship with sin anymore. (marriage ends with the death of the husband, vs. 1-2).

Instead we have been set free from that enforcement of the law to remain married to sin and can now be married to another and obey his dictates instead. That new husband is Jesus Christ, and the marriage contract that keeps us in obedient submission to our new husband is the new way of the Holy Spirit (vs. 6), just as the contract of the law (the old way of the letter of the law) kept us in obedient submission to ex-husband sin nature.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Based on what you see here as "husband is sin nature", I would be an adulteress for obeying the nature of Christ?

No, what it means is you CAN'T obey another husband while husband 'sin nature' ('body of sin', 'old man'--Romans 6:6) is still alive. Paul is using the law of marriage that we all understand to illustrate how the 'old self' has to die first before you can be joined in legitimate obedient marital union to Christ and bear his likeness, the fruit of your intimate relationship with him. Until that death occurs you are bound by sinful flesh to bear his likeness as a result of your intimate obedient relationship with him. He's explaining to the Romans how this death has already occurred setting us free from the bond we have with it such that we don't have to obey the dictates of sin anymore. From this truth comes the faith and strength to resist sin and instead submit to husband Jesus and do what he wants. We have the freedom to do that now.

 

[JLB]

No, what it means is you CAN'T obey another husband while husband 'sin nature' ('body of sin', 'old man'--Romans 6:6) is still alive.

So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress;

I always thought the word adulteress meant that you CAN... IOW a woman is married to one man and does indeed become involved with another man, which is why she is called an adulteress, because she is partaking of both.

Until that death occurs you are bound by sinful flesh to bear his likeness as a result of your intimate obedient relationship with him. He's explaining to the Romans how this death has already occurred setting us free from the bond we have with it such that we don't have to obey the dictates of sin anymore. From this truth comes the faith and strength to resist sin and instead submit to husband Jesus and do what he wants. We have the freedom to do that now.

That death won't occur until your physical body is literally dead, as the sin dwelling in your flesh never dies.

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:23-25

Our part is to put to death, the desires of the flesh, by the Spirit, by being filled with the Spirit, sowing to the spirit, setting our minds on the things of the Spirit.

• There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

• For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6

• Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

All of this is possible because we have been joined to the One who was raised from the dead, and are one spirit with Him.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17


I think we can agree that our new Husband is Christ, who was raised from the dead.

... that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead. Romans 7:4


Amen.


JLB