Bible Study The authority of the law: Romans 7

[Jethro Bodine]

So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress;

I always thought the word adulteress meant that you CAN... IOW a woman is married to one man and does indeed become involved with another man, which is why she is called an adulteress, because she is partaking of both.

You can't marry Christ until you are no longer married to sin nature by virtue of death of sin nature. He uses the law of marriage as an analogy to illustrate this truth.

That death won't occur until your physical body is literally dead, as the sin dwelling in your flesh never dies.

Paul makes it quite clear that the body of sin has been crucified:

"...our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin..." (Romans 6:6 NASB)

Christ made the sin nature, and the law that provokes it dead to us, meaning they no longer have power and authority over us to make us sin in obedience to that sin nature like how a husband, when he is dead, no longer has legal authority over his wife to make her do what he wants.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Moving on to the next verse....

7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “YOU SHALL NOT COVET.” (Romans 7:7 NASB capitals in original)

Paul is correcting the anticipated argument that since the law provokes the very sin in us that it prohibits it must be sin itself. "On the contrary", he says--that means the opposite is true. The law is righteous, not sinful. The law reveals God's righteousness to us. The law is not the bad guy, the sin it provokes is.

What we'll see is the authority the written word lacks is the authority to make us righteous. It can only show us that we are not righteous. And, as has been explained by Paul, the authority the written word does have is to provoke in you, via the sin nature, exactly what it says not to do. That's why the sin nature has to die before you can do what Christ through the law says to do. The law cannot enforce a relationship between husband/master sin and wife/servant that has ended because of the death of the husband/master.

 

[JLB]

You can't marry Christ until you are no longer married to sin nature by virtue of death of sin nature. He uses the law of marriage as an analogy to illustrate this truth.

Oh I see. First you have to put the sin nature to death, then you can be saved.

Got it.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Oh I see. First you have to put the sin nature to death, then you can be saved.

Correct:

"...in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross." (Colossians 2:11-14 NASB bold mine)

The fleshly sin nature has to be circumcised in order to be saved. That happens when one places their faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit comes into them.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Moving on in the chapter...

"8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful." (Romans 7:8-13 NASB)

Paul explains how apart from the law sin was dead, and that it was when the commandment came that sin sprang to life putting him to spiritual death. Adam and Eve illustrate this for us in how they also were blameless and without sin until the commandment 'do not eat' was given and the desire to eat was aroused in them and they ate and died as a result. Just as the serpent deceived them so sin and the working of evil in us deceives us and puts us to death through the commandment. He points out that the law is "holy, righteous and good", and that it is not the law that became death to him. It is sin that put him to death, through that which is good.

 

[JLB]

Paul makes it quite clear that the body of sin has been crucified:

"...our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin..." (Romans 6:6 NASB)

Moving on in the chapter...

"8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful." (Romans 7:8-13 NASB)

Paul explains how apart from the law sin was dead, and that it was when the commandment came that sin sprang to life putting him to spiritual death. Adam and Eve illustrate this for us in how they also were blameless and without sin until the commandment 'do not eat' was given and the desire to eat was aroused in them and they ate and died as a result. Just as the serpent deceived them so sin and the working of evil in us deceives us and puts us to death through the commandment. He points out that the law is "holy, righteous and good", and that it is not the law that became death to him. It is sin that put him to death, through that which is good.

Yes. Of course, that makes perfect sense.

The sin in Adams flesh was aroused because of the commandment..,
"Do not eat". ..

Only, there was no sin in Adam's flesh.

Eve was deceived into eating of the tree, by the serpent, and then Eve persuaded her husband.

JLB

 

[Chopper]

I like your thinking, my old friend. This especially, "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts." Romans 6:12....I recently had a thought, "What causes sin?" James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. (KJV) James 1:14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. (ESV)

Now that's a familiar word that all should be familiar. "DESIRE" When I think of desire, it really sends a message to my mind, "be careful what you desire Chopper". The world has many tempting things that would excite the desire of the eyes, desire of the flesh, and the desire for the pride of life.

Thank you for the reminder.
http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Rom 6.12
[/QUOTE]

 

[JLB]

I like your thinking, my old friend. This especially, "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts." Romans 6:12....I recently had a thought, "What causes sin?" James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. (KJV) James 1:14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. (ESV)

Now that's a familiar word that all should be familiar. "DESIRE" When I think of desire, it really sends a message to my mind, "be careful what you desire Chopper". The world has many tempting things that would excite the desire of the eyes, desire of the flesh, and the desire for the pride of life.

Thank you for the reminder.

How completely desperate I am for the Spirit of God, and for the Grace of our Lord, every moment of everyday.

His mercy surely endures forever!

He does give us grace to stand.

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1-2

That grace is called the Holy Spirit... The Spirit of Grace.


The Lord is good, and His mercy endures forever.



JLB

 

[Chopper]

Moving on to the next verse....

7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “YOU SHALL NOT COVET.” (Romans 7:7 NASB capitals in original)

Paul is correcting the anticipated argument that since the law provokes the very sin in us that it prohibits it must be sin itself. "On the contrary", he says--that means the opposite is true. The law is righteous, not sinful. The law reveals God's righteousness to us. The law is not the bad guy, the sin it provokes is.

What we'll see is the authority the written word lacks is the authority to make us righteous. It can only show us that we are not righteous. And, as has been explained by Paul, the authority the written word does have is to provoke in you, via the sin nature, exactly what it says not to do. That's why the sin nature has to die before you can do what Christ through the law says to do. The law cannot enforce a relationship between husband/master sin and wife/servant that has ended because of the death of the husband/master.

Good post my dear friend Jethro. I like the verse Romans 7:7. I can't tell you of the many times I have studied in the Old Covenant (Testament) the Laws, Commands, Statues, and rules of God. I have had a thirst to know God more intimately each day. The preceding is the way that I see what our Holy God expected of Judah and Israel. Then I see how much Judah & Israel rebelled against Jehovah their Elohim, and how much it grieved the Heart of El. (My old KJV has these titles)

Jethro and JLB, have you wondered, like I have, why, with so many mighty works of God, just from leading them out of Egypt, how was it that they refused, or couldn't remember how gracious their God was to them. The only thing I can think of is that they did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit. When ever I doubt the presence and favor of the Lord during a trial, my mind goes back to 1990 when the Holy Spirit came on me for four days with an anointing of love. I'll never forget that one great work of God to me personally.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The sin in Adams flesh was aroused because of the commandment..,
"Do not eat". ..

Only, there was no sin in Adam's flesh.

Sin came to them and they caved in to it. Their problem was they were naked and unclothed. The commandment exposed their nakedness:

"10 (Adam) answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”

11And (God) said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?" (Genesis 3:10-11 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro and JLB, have you wondered, like I have, why, with so many mighty works of God, just from leading them out of Egypt, how was it that they refused, or couldn't remember how gracious their God was to them. The only thing I can think of is that they did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit.

That is exactly what I believe. They prove that 'seeing in order to believe' ultimately has no power to cause a person to believe. Unbelief is a spiritual problem that needs a spiritual solution, not a natural one.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Jethro

This will be interesting. And I'm following along, but help me out here.

You say:

So let's recap: We are released from the authority of the law of marriage because a death has occurred(the law of marriage only has authority over the living). The marriage partner that died was sinful flesh. 'He' died with Christ on the cross. That being true, we (the wife) are now legitimately entitled to be married to another husband and Master, whom Paul says is Jesus Christ.

Isn't the marriage partner that died the Law? (you say it's sinful flesh)

I understand Romans 7 to be the difference between living under the Law and living under Grace. So isn't it the Law that dies?

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

That is exactly what I believe. They prove that 'seeing in order to believe' ultimately has no power to cause a person to believe. Unbelief is a spiritual problem that needs a spiritual solution, not a natural one.

Right. You could bring an atheist right smack up against a miracle and he'll have some natural solution.
So seeing will not lead to believing.

How about believing so you could see?
Jesus to Nicodemus: John 3:3
He tells Nicodemus that you must be born again to see the Kingdom. The Kingdom is not visible UNLESS one believes and is thus able to see it.

Wondering

 

[JLB]

Sin came to them and they caved in to it. Their problem was they were naked and unclothed. The commandment exposed their nakedness:

"10 (Adam) answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”

11And (God) said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?" (Genesis 3:10-11 NASB)

Yes, they became naked after the had sinned.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Isn't the marriage partner that died the Law? (you say it's sinful flesh)

And so the great debate continues: Is Paul saying the law died, or is he saying the sin nature died? There are a couple of ways to show that he's saying the sin nature is what died, not the law, though certainly the law is no longer the covenant by which we are brought near to God (which is another subject). For one, in the context of his discourse he plainly said it is the sin nature that was put to death in Christ:

"our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin." (Romans 6:6-7 NASB)

You can see that Paul says the death that occurred is the death of the body of sin--the sin nature within us, not the law. The law 'died' in the sense that it's power to keep us in intimate relationship with 'sin nature' ended. So in that sense we died to the law.

I know that this symbiotic relationship between man and his propensity to sin is hard to grasp, but remember that in a marriage the two parties become as one flesh. And so it is with sinful man--he's a living soul married as one flesh to the sin nature that rules over him like a husband over a wife. That is, as long as sin nature is alive. Because also like in a marriage, that union ends with the death of the master/husband. And when that happens the law that demanded that they stay in intimate relationship with each other, with wife in obedient submission to master husband, can no longer enforce that master/ servant relationship.

And Paul says that's exactly what happened. Husband sin nature--our other half (certainly not our better half, lol)--perished on the cross with Jesus. And because he is dead, we are released from the law of Moses that acted like a legal marriage certificate that kept us bound in obedient submission to husband sin nature (Romans 7:5,8). The law can't arouse and enforce that relationship anymore!

Another thought is, if the thing we were legally bound in intimate obedience to was the law, why did God see it necessary that we die to that which we are in obedient submission to? That would be God's will fulfilled! So it's clear that the spouse we were married to and faithfully obedient to as required was not the law. God would have had no qualms with that whatsoever! We'd all be living in the kingdom of God right now if that were true.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes, they became naked after the had sinned.


JLB

No. They were created naked:

"22The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.

23The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”

24For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. 25And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed." (Genesis 2:22-25 NASB)

And there was no shame it it because they did not know they were naked. The command had not come yet so as to expose the shame of their nakedness. That's what the command does--it exposes our lack of clothing (to us, not God--he already knows that). It shows we are not clothed with the righteousness of Christ and, therefore, can not resist sin. That's what the command 'do not eat' proved about Adam and Eve--that they were naked and unclothed before God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How about believing so you could see?
Jesus to Nicodemus: John 3:3
He tells Nicodemus that you must be born again to see the Kingdom. The Kingdom is not visible UNLESS one believes and is thus able to see it.

Wondering

Yes, interesting thought: We don't see so we can believe, we believe so we can see!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Okay, so now starts the part that has provoked the most debate over the centuries:

" 14For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

21I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members." (Romans 7:14-23 NASB)

Is Paul talking about the Christian being in bondage to sin (wondering: note, bondage to sin--vs.14--not the law), or is he talking about the non-Christian being in bondage to sin who does what he doesn't want to do and not what he wants to do. On one hand he doesn't want to do what he hates but instead wants to do good, which leads us to think of this being about the Christian, but on the other hand this person is "sold into bondage to sin" which would indicate an unsaved person still in marital bondage to the sin nature.

Well, honestly, I think that's not really the point Paul wants us to discern. But this is definitely leaning toward the person who has had some kind of an encounter with God and has some kind of calling to the gospel, and whether or not he has responded to it and become 'chosen' is kind of irrelevant, because the answer for both persons is the same, as we will see.

For years I've understood this passage to be about the person (believing, or not quite believing yet) who is trying to relate to God through the powerless way of the written word, the law. They know good from evil, to the point they even hate the evil they do (vs. 15), and they want to do the good they know acknowledging that the law is good (vs. 16). I've been this way, both, as an unbeliever and as a believer. In fact, it was the 'not being able to do the good I wanted to do' part that caused me to fall at the foot of the cross in utter helplessness and be saved. So the point is not if this person is saved or not. The point is, he is in bondage to sin he does not want to be in bondage to. Every unsaved person has to get to that point before they can be saved. And every saved person will struggle with the bondage to sin (the perceived bondage of husband/master sin that Paul says perished on the cross).

So, to truly understand Paul's point we have to remember the context he is saying this in--the authority of the law. To simply want to do the right thing as revealed in the law only gives strength to sin and arouse it all the more in our members (Romans 7:5,8). And so we end up doing the thing we hate and don't want to do, not the good we seek. In fact, the law is the power of sin (1 Corinthians 15:56). The person Paul is speaking about is the person, saved or unsaved, doesn't matter, who tries to approach God through the way of the written word, not knowing to do that is to actually give sin power to distance you from God all the more. As Paul has been explaining, the answer is not to do away with the law, but to strip the power and authority of the law to arouse and keep us in sin by putting that sin to death in Christ, or, in the case of the one who has already believed in Christ for them to know that sin is already defeated for you. And because it is, we are released from the authority of the law to keep us bound in sin and condemn us for that sin. Which is exactly the point Paul makes and expounds on next.

 

[jocor]

Just want to let you know, Jethro, that I agree with your study so far. There is never a "like" button when you need one.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jethro,

Flesh is flesh. Spirit is spirit. It is us committing the sin in the flesh, but in the spirit we do not sin.
It's getting late here. I never heard of death to sin. To continue tomorrow...

Wondering