Bible Study The Begotten Word of God

[FreeGrace]

SB,

Earlier I said,

God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.

Jesus, the Son, is one person with two natures: Divine and Human. This is called the Hypostatic Union. The Holy Spirit is also divine in nature and is self aware, the third person of the Trinity.

There is, though, an apparent separation of some functions among the members of the Godhead. For example, the Father chooses who will be saved (Ephesians 1:4); the Son redeems them (Ephesians 1:7); and the Holy Spirit seals them, (Ephesians 1:13).

I have never expressed it differently than this.

A further point of clarification is that God is not one person, the Father, with Jesus as a creation and the Holy Spirit is a force (Jehovah Witnesses). Neither is He one person who took three consecutive forms, i.e., the Father, became the Son, who became the Holy Spirit. Nor is God the divine nature of the Son (where Jesus had a human nature perceived as the Son and a divine nature perceived as the Father (Oneness theology).

Nor is the Trinity an office held by three separate Gods (Mormonism).

The word "person" is used to describe the three members of the Godhead because the word "person" is appropriate. A person is self aware, can speak, love, hate, refer to you and me. Each of the three persons in the Trinity demonstrate these qualities.

But you have ignored such explanations, as you have ignored all of the arguments presented to you. You have also ignored the answers given to the handful of scriptures you pose.

The word "trinity" does not need to be used in the Bible in order for it to be biblical. The expression "immaculate conception" is a common expression, yet we do not find that expression in scripture. I believe you accept this doctrine.

To establish the doctrine of the trinity biblically we need to do two things. We first must show that there is only one God. Then, you observe in scripture that each of the persons of the trinity (Godhead) is called God, each creates, each was involved in Jesus' resurrection, each indwells, each has always existed, etc. Therefore, we see two concepts, which may at first seem contradictory, but which are both clearly taught in scripture. God is one, but the one God is in three simultaneous persons.

Please notice also that the idea of a composite unity is not a foreign concept to the Bible. After all, man and wife are said to become one flesh. This idea of a composite unity of persons is spoken of by God early in Genesis (Genesis 2:24).

Let me give you a verse to consider that you perhaps have not noticed before on this - John 3:11. (Who is the "we" here?)

John 3:11, 12 "I assure you: We speak what We know and We testify to what We have seen, but you do not accept Our testimony. If I have told you about things that happen on earth and you don't believe, how will you believe if I tell you about things of heaven?"
(The"we" here could not be referring to His dicsiples. It was very early in His ministry, and His disicples were speaking about nothing.)

Then consider John 16:13-15 - When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak whatever He hears. He will also declare to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, because He will take from what is Mine and declare it to you. Everything the Father has is Mine. This is why I told you that He takes from what is Mine and will declare it to you.
(Think about it. Please re-read the above text. Does the Father have anything, anything at all that is not the Son's? Answer - no. The interrelationship of the 3 members of the Godhead are explained here.)

In Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus told His disciples to baptize those who believed "in the name" (EIS TO ONOMA) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But "name" is singular. One God. Three persons.

In Luke 3:21, 22 the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus at His baptism in the form of a dove, and the Father spoke to Him, calling Him His beloved Son.

In 2 Corinthians 13:13 all three members of the Godhead are mentioned. But if we acknowledge the deity of Christ, then the next step to acknowledging the deity of the holy Spirit as well is a relatively small one. IMO, the deity of Christ is crucial. Because if we do not accept that Jesus Christ is God, then He has no power to save us. If we do not accept Him as who He claimed to be, then we are still in our sins.

The Trinity is simply the term used to express the biblical truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another. Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God."

You will find this concept expressed both in Catholic and Protestant creeds. By Greek Orthodox and Baptists. By Pentecostal, reformed, Arminian, anabaptists and all non-cultic Christianity.

You can establish by inductive reasoning the self-existence of a personal First Cause which is distinct from matter and from the human mind. Just common sense. Hence, by definition of what must be true about any First Cause, the human mind can never fully understand God's origin or nature of existence.

OK, enough of this. In my next post I'll givea little historical background regarding the trinity. I imagine you'll ignore it, but I'll do it anyway.

FG

 

[FreeGrace]

SB,

OK, here's the historical background of the trinity I promised. This had been one large post. But I decided to cut this off from the previous post - which focuses on the Bible, since this portion focuses on history.

The word trias (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about 180 AD. He speaks of "the Trinity of God [the Father], His Word and His Wisdom" (Ad. Autol., II, 15). The term may, of course, have been in use before his time. Afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian ("De pud." c. xxi). In the next century the word is in general use. It is found in many passages of Origen ("In Ps. xvii", 15). Turtullian first spoke of thetrinity in about 220 AD. The first creed in which it appears is that of Origen's pupil, Gregory Thaumaturgus. In his Ekthesis tes pisteos composed between 260 and 270 AD, he writes:

"There is therefore nothing created, nothing subject to another in the Trinity: nor is there anything that has been added as though it once had not existed, but had entered afterwards: therefore the Father has never been without the Son, nor the Son without the Spirit: and this same Trinity is immutable and unalterable forever." (P. G., X, 986)

Actually, the Trinitarian idea is communicated before that in many church documents. Let me quote church historian professor John Hannah (DTS), "First, the church never evidenced disbelief in the deity of the Savior until recent centuries." That is a matter of historical fact, according to many church historians. When Arius began to teach that Jesus was not God, the council of Trent organized by Constantine quickly put a stop to such things. It did NOT initiate the concept, but simply put in words which were more clear regarding the boundaries concerning what the church had ALWAYS believed. This is not open for debate, actually. We're talking about history here. Let's not re-write it.

Hannah goes on to say that, "while church leaders struggled over how to explain the relationship of the two natures of Christ, nearly every one of them nonetheless held firmly to both natures." Jesus' deity was not "invented" in 220 AD by Tertullian, or later in 325 AD, it was an attempt to explain it more clearly.

He adds, "Historically, we know that 'Jesus is Lord' was the earliest most basic profession of faith in Christ. It was a statement of His deity - and that was clearly understood by the professors. You can say that they misunderstood what Jesus intended, if you want, or that they did not understand the OT, but it's a fact that the Christians of the 1st few centuries of the New Testament viewed Jesus Christ as God. To say anything else is contrary to written records."

Clement of Rome is a well-known respected historical figure of the time, who is believed to have died in 101 AD. He is an apostolic father. In 1 Clement 36 he referred to Christ as the "preexistent Son of God." He also wrote that He was "sent from God," and he later wrote, "The scepter of the majesty of God, even our Lord Jesus Christ…" He also later wrote of His receiving "divine honor" (32.4; 38.4; 43.6; 58.2; 63.3 & 65.2), which can only be received by God. Clement was a bishop of the church of Rome - the central church in the burgeoning Christianity.

One of the earliest church fathers was Ignatius of Antioch (the same Antioch which sent out Paul & Barnabas), and he lived from 35 to 107AD. He was a disciple of the apostle John himself! (So he too was an apostolic father.) He was well aware of the heretical teaching (docetism - Gnosticism) that taught that Jesus was born a human being(only), became indwelt by the Christ at the baptism of John (& fully God at that point), but who gave up the Spirit of Christ at His crucifixion, & firmly opposed. In "To the Ephesians" he makes it clear that he viewed Christ as both God and man: "There is only one physician, of flesh and of the spirit, generate and ingenerate, God in man, life in death, Son of Mary & Son of God, 1st passable [i.e. - capable of suffering] and then impassible, Jesus our Lord" (7.2).

So, did these disciples of the apostle John himself apparently misunderstand what John told them? I have many more historical quotes to share, but I think it appears to be a waste of time, so I'll stop here.

Take the blinders off, SqueakyBro.

FG

 

[FreeGrace]

SB,

You said,

di-vin-i-ty 1:the quality or state of being divine: nature or essence of God: GODHEAD (the divinity of Jesus) a celestial being inferior to the supreme God but superior to man<one of the subservient divinities>

Uh, where'd you get this definition? It is not how Christianity teaches or has ever taught about Jesus Christ. You posted the same thing in TheologyWeb. As they said there, "Are you getting your theology from a dictionary, or from the Bible?"

BTW, could you give us the dictionary you are apparently quoting? I imagine that it does not say what you quoted here, since a search of google will not bring anything like that up.

FG

 

[Squeakybro]

I tried but I couldnt follow or understand your logic above.

And them definitions came out of websters.
I got my deffinitions from websters new world dictionary copyright 1993

 

[Vic C.]

Divinity - A fluffy, creamy candy made from sugar, corn syrup, and beaten egg whites. Nuts, chocolate, and other flavorings are often added to the mixture.

http://www.nutribase.com/cookingt.shtml

:-D : :

 

[Squeakybro]

Humor is a good camoflouge for ignorance. I bet your glad eveyone doesnt know that.

 

[Vic C.]

Humor is a good camoflouge for ignorance. I bet your glad eveyone doesnt know that.

I'm estatic you brought that to light. Now, get off your high horse, I was just having a little fun. :-?

 

[Vice]

You certainly get around, don't you?

http://p081.ezboard.com/fstdebatefrm9.showMessage?topicID=243.topic

http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38601

http://boards.heartlight.org/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000678.html

The first two links are carbon copies of your first post in this thread.

 

[Vice]

Sb, in my attempts to understand where you are coming from, I stumbled upon the "Scattered Sheep"/ Simple Truth Ministries website whose founder is Phil Maxwell.

http://www.scatteredsheep.com/nature_of_god.htm

His definition of "The Word" sounds pretty similar to yours. Is this where you get your interpretation of John's prologue and "The Word" from?

 

[Squeakybro]

I've been in there. But if you will notice I get my definitions from the revelations of Jesus Christ that Paul spoke of.

 

[Vice]

Look. More carbon copies of your opinion on the Word of God!

http://p197.ezboard.com/ffolkofthefring ... D=21.topic

http://p069.ezboard.com/fhiswordmyheart ... D=73.topic

http://p083.ezboard.com/fhavetheologywi ... =484.topic

http://p087.ezboard.com/fessentialchris ... D=51.topic

I'll bet you have tons of these floating around.

 

[Squeakybro]

Vice what is wrong with you. A born again christians is suppose to spread the gospel. I cant see what the problem is, or why it bothers you. I have been around for years on the net spreading the Word of God. Tell me your problem and maybe I can help.

 

[(Omega)]

you said
. He is the One from whom all things come, and for whom all things exist. Now there is but one God, but He exists in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

I said
Ok here you said it again. One God, but He. You are saying(atleast that is what i am getting) that He(one) exsists in the Father(two) the Son(three) and the Holy Spirit(four). I'm sorry but that is what your saying. If the Father nor the Son nor the Holy Spirit is He then we have four beings of the trinity. Now before i have seen them say that neither the Father nor Jesus nor the Holy Spirit is God, but their all a part of God. That it takes all three to be God. I have seen them say That there is one God that has three personalities. I have seen them say that there is God the Father and God the Son and God the HOly Spirit and that is three Gods. And I keep seeing you say there are four. I'm not trying to be difficult, I just see something you dont. The Word of God says there is only one God the Father.

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

Eph 4:6
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
(NKJ)

And if Jesus were God then He would have fraised this differently. He would have said I am ascending to My God, and you will ascend to Me.

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

Hello there Squeakybro!

Jesus is most indeed God In the Flesh, there are many so-called refutations that supposedly deny the Deity of Christ such as mistranslations and such, but diligent studies prove otherwise.

God Almighty is represented in three eternal persons, example this verse: to Phil.1:2 "Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord" I will explain in depth each members of the Triune God and their co-equal relationships. Hebrews 9:14 - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Who is the Eternal Spirit? Or who is the {HOLY SPIRIT} according to Biblical Truth? The Son is Eternal and without beginning: Hebrews 13:8 " Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever." Micah 5:2 " speaking of Jesus-whose goings forth are from old {ancient times} from everlasting {eternity}"
Christ is not a created being, however this verse in Scripture clearly refutes any claim that oppose it. In this passage we see that the Son was involved in the Creation: Hebrews 1:2 - Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Colossians 1:16 - For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Then we have the Holy Spirit who is also involved in the Creation: Psalms 104:30 - Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. Job 33:4 – The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. Job 26:13 - By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

Then there are those who state that the KJV Transators purposely changed revere to worship. The Translators ensuring that proskunoen were to be translated as worship in no way implicating that a particular verse in the Bible in regards to the worship of Christ was not indeed worhip. The Greek word Proskuneo is Translated as worshipped my friend!{ 4352 pros-koo-neh'-o from 4314, to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):--worship. It is has double meaning, also being prostrated or bowing down is most often associated with worship. The Old Testament word of worship as you say is shachah which is to prostrate oneself {especially reflexive, in homage to royalty or God}. Even in the authorized verrsion of the Bible it is defined as {bow down, crouch, fall down, humbly beseech, do obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, {worship.} Only two verses found in the King James Version state that somebody had {knelt before} Christ, this is found in Matthew 17:14 - And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying, Mark 1:40 - And there came a leper to him, beseeching him, and kneeling down to him, and saying unto him, If thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. and within those verses a different Greek word is used and it is the word {gonupeteo} gon-oo-pet-eh'-o to fall on the knee:--bow the knee, kneel down.

So who is the Savior of all men? The Savior is indeed Jesus and as the Scriptures will clarify that He is Gods only Son! Zechariah 12:10 - And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have {pierced}, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. Now bear in mind that this Is indeed The One and Only Lord speaking. The Hebrew root for pierced used here is daqar {daw-kar'}to pierce, thrust through, pierce through or {Qal} which is to pierce or run through.The Messiah who is even to this day rejected by many jews have in the past been pierced, the New Testament Greek root has the same meaning: nusso {noos'-so} to pierce through, transfix. The Spirit of God was indeed in the Messiah, i.e the full manifestation of the Godhead within the Human body as the Scriptures state: 1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Then we have Jesus sitting at the right Hand of God the Father, So what does right hand mean? Such as the term frequently used By Jesus Himself? Matthew 26:64 - Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Isaiah 48:13 - Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
When the tern the right hand of God is used it is pointing to the exalted position He now has. It is a metaphor which is used to show How God exercises His Authority, i.e His (Right Hand)! I will demonstrate by this Scripture:1 Peter 3:22 - Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. Three Eternal Persons my friend and that is why Jesus referred to His Father as Lord and likewise. Of course He Jesus is a man, The Bible clealry mentions that the Word{Lovgos}became Flesh, i.e Human. Lets take a close examination of the Name Jesus, the name Jesus means{Jehovah or YHVH is salvation.} Lets start out with this passage in Scripture: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:9-13 Paul here is quoting from Scripture which is found here: Joel 2:32 - And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Paul is clearly applying the Lord to the person of Christ. We find that the Jews always called upon God to be delivered or saved. So when Paul who was a Jew called Jesus Lord, He called Him Lord as a worshipper of God. Meaning the Lord in both passages refer to God Himself! Unless some try to say that that CALLING UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD does not refer to Jesus!

And what does it mean when He says that He will write both the name of the Father and the Son? 2 John 1:9 - Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. This is referring to the child of God being owned by both the Triune members of the Godhead, and is implying that His residence is that of the Father and the Son.
Correct Translation says that Thomas says that Jesus is the God of Him and even if Thomas acknowledged Jesus as the Messiah He would still be breaking the First commandment which is to have {no other Gods} before God Almighty!
Jesus called His Father God, when He uses the words my God and My Father it is indeed True, However this does not make Him less equal then God. Let me explain. John 20:17 - Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. In this passage Jesus calls His Father Marys Father and His God Her God. In the book of Psalms as you quoted, the Father calls the Son God and likewise, the Father is indeed Jesus’ and Jesus is indeed God of the Father, Example:It is my heart that belongs to me.

OK, Lets see what the scriptures say: Exodus 7:1 - And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. In this passage the Lord says unto Moses that He has made him a God and The God, do you see the difference here? Jesus was made God unlike Moses who is being made a god!
In the Bible the word for God in Hebrew is most oftentimes used is Elohim. Elohim is plural. Nowadays it is used as a term of majesty, But we must take into consideration that the form of the Word Eloh-im is plural. Now the word for God in the singular sense is (El) which most of the times is used in describing the characteristics or the attributes of God. El Shaddai and El Gibbor, In the Hebrew when Elohim is when used to describe the true God it is used as singular noun, as a composite unity. When it is used to describe false gods it is used in the plural e.g, you shall have no other Gods “Elohim” before me.") Is God calling the false Gods majesties. God is not this nice to impostors who cause people to rebel and forsake him. In Genesis 1:24 it the Lord speaks saying”Let us make man in OUR image” to describe Himself this is not a reference to angels(the angels are called cherub or seraph and are in the singularform but when they are or cherubim or seraphim they mean more than one.) God is speaking of Himself and is speaking of Himself in a plural number. Shamayim in Hebrew refers to the heavens which is also plural, is this then a plural of majesty? God has revealed Himself in three Eternal persons that make up One God in Absolute Unity and close study in addition to spiritual understanding will reveal this.

Philippians 3:21 - who will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power which enables him even to (subject5293 all things3956 to himself1438.)

In this verse it states that all things(pas {pas}each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything) will be subject(hupotasso {hoop-ot-as'-so}to submit to one's control) This clarifies that Christ has All Power which would mean that He is Almighty and as any Christian or non-christian for that matter knows full well that Only God is omnipotent!

Nehemiah 9:5 - Then the Levites, Jeshua, Kad'mi-el, Bani, Hashabnei'ah, Sherebi'ah, Hodi'ah, Shebani'ah, and Pethahi'ah, said, "Stand up and bless the LORD your God from everlasting to everlasting. Blessed be thy glorious name which is exalted above all blessing and praise."
In this passage it is written that the name of God(YHVH) is above all names or above all and lets compare that passage in scripture to the one below.

Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above(5228) every(3956) name(3686), that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, Philippians 2:9,10 Once again it stresses that the Name Jesus is above every( Gr.pas) name, this would be in contradiction to the above verse which states that the Name of YHVH is above all names. However this is not the case, this is another implication that points to the Triune Godhead(YHVH)

Lets see what the New Testament writers have to say regarding the Judge of all:Hebrews 12:23 - To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and what did Jesus say as to who will Judge all? John 5:22 - The Father judges no one, but has given (all judgment) to the Son,
Either the these verses prove the Deity of Christ or the writers of the New Testament are sadly mistaken, think about it! The Word "all" once again same Greek root{pas} all means all my friend!

Lets move on to the next passages in Scripture that further prove the Deity of Christ.

Deuteronomy 10:17 - For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the terrible God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.

Here in this passage it is clearly referring to the Almighty God:

I charge you to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ; and this will be made manifest at the proper time by the blessed and only Sovereign, the (King of kings and Lord of lords), who alone has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. Timothy 6:14-16 OK, So we have both old and new Testament Scriptures that Testify that God is indeed King of Kings and Lord of Lords correct? In the book of Timothy it describes the King of Kings and Lord of Lords who cannot be seen, this is in reference to Almighty God correct? And then we have in Revelation this:And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:15,16 The Triune God is at work here. The Full manifestation of God is in Christ, Many use Psalms that has Jesus as a human Lord, however what you fail to realize is that the Full manifestation of God(LORD)is incarnate in the Flesh(Lord). Regardless the passages clearly state that He is the Lord of Lords! He is kurios (koo'-ree-os) of kurios!

The Father is not Greater than the Son nor The Holy Spirit The Bible must be taken as whole. The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit each share divine attributes to each person, furthermore they each titelesd that are divine, let me explain if your heart permits. Exodus 6:3 - And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name {03072}{JEHOVAH} was I not known to them. That same title is given to the Son also: Jeremiah 23:6 - In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, {03072}THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. There is indeniable evidence here that proves that the Son shares the same Title as God the Fathers, lets see what THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS means: 03072 Y@hovah tsidqenuw {ye-ho-vaw' tsid-kay'-noo} Both verse in the Old Testament uses the same Hebrew root to apply the Title to Almighty God, in the book of Jeremiah this is a clear irrefutable reference to the prophecy of the Son of God{JESUS} Neither is Greater than the other in power but are co-equal. Jesus willingly submitted to the Father when the Son became Incarnate.

Example:Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be {equal with God}: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.Philippians 2:6-8 This is describing the humiliation and exaltation of Christ. He(Christ) Eternally possessed the Divine Nature of God Almighty and to own the nature of Godis to be God. Such Truths regarding the Unique relationship the Son Has to the Father cannot be denied, unless the enemy snatches the Truth from your heart, be not deceived! He is the Second Eternal Member of the Godhead my friend. Three Eternal Persons that comprise One God in Absolute Unity and Essence. Which to you appears to be Unique, Alaah who claims that He alone is God and has no members, we all are individual members too. Or Three Eternal Persons without beginning nor end is something which you obviously cannot Fathom. The Ultimate Purpose of God is to have all of His Creatures dwell in Absolute Unity, although we are individual persons and separate in being, God is trying to have man understand that indiviual persons can indeed be united as One as He is, the Difference with God is that He is ONE, however the Three {Eternal} Persons are there to guide mankind and creations into achieving the oneness the The Son shares with the Father and Spirit, do you understand where I am coming from? Colossians 1:15-19 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all {things were created by him}, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should {all fullness} dwell; This is called subordination where by the Son willingly submitted to the Father as the role of a servant, don't let the words servant fool you! John 14:28 - Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is {greater than} I. The Father Here has Greater authrority now that the Son is willingly in submission to the Father. Example: Luke 22:27- For whether is {greater}, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but {I am among you} as he that serveth.

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, {I am}. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.John 8:58,59

In the Book of John chapter 8 verses 58 and 59 Jesus referred to Himself as (I AM), this is the same as with God with Moses at the burning bush. In these passages the Jews knew that Jesus was equating Himself with deity because they picked up stones to stone Him. John 5:18 the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself {equal with God}. This is NOT what they thought, this is what he wanted them to know! Fathers and sons are equal creatures and so are animals such as rabbits!
In this passage in Scripture it reads:Hebrews 1:3 - Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high(The express image of His person.) Another primary example if your heart permits:Philippians 2:6,7 - Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. In verse 7 He is in the form of man In verse 6 He is in the form of God He wasn't just like man, He was a man He wasn't just like god, he was God, that is God the Father God the Son God the Holy Spirit The Godhead John the Baptist Himself bore witness to this fact: In John 1:15 He bore witness of Jesus and in Matthew 11:14 John the Baptist is Elijah John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah preparing the way for Jesus. Matthew 3:3 Prepare the way of Jehovah. - Jesus is called Jehovah

Jesus said:John 13:19 - Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe (that I am he.) hina pisteuesete hoti ego eimi

God Almighty said:Isaiah 43:10 - Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand (that I am he): before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
hina gnote kai pisteusete kai sinite hoti ego eimi

Jesus Clarifies that He is the Word of GOD and is God and that there is none other than Him!

John 8:24 - I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that (I am he), ye shall die in your sins.

It is by the atoning blood of Jesus Christ that we receive reconciliation unto God, for without the shedding of Blood there is no forgiveness of sins. And since God is Absolutely Holy He cannot be in the presence of Sin, so those who do not believe that He is the Ever Existing God than they remain in their sins, and the wages of sin is death!

God Bless!

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
Jesus is most indeed God In the Flesh, there are many so-called refutations that supposedly deny the Deity of Christ such as mistranslations and such, but diligent studies prove otherwise.

God Almighty is represented in three eternal persons, example this verse: to Phil.1:2 "Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord" I will explain in depth each members of the Triune God and their co-equal relationships

I said
I couldnt follow your logic in your long post. But I did here I think. And you done it again. God Almighty(one) God our Father(two) Jesus(three) the Holy Spirit(four).
Who denies the deity of Christ. Christ is inferior to God(the only God, the Father) but superior to man.

deity 1 a: often cap : divine nature or rank: the essintial nature of a god or of a supreme being: DIVINITY

di-vin-i-ty 1:the quality or state of being divine: nature or essence of God: GODHEAD (the divinity of Jesus) a celestial being inferior to the supreme God but superior to man<one of the subservient divinities>

Now it doesnt say that Jesus is God, what it says is He is second in command, but over every other creature in heaven and on earth.
I got my deffinitions from websters new world dictionary copyright 1993

 

[(Omega)]

: Hello my friend!

You got your term Divinity from the Websters Dictionary and I got my definition from the Word of God called the Bible via Holy Spirit.

He that hath ears to hear let him hear: 1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Think about it!

God Bless!

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
You got your term Divinity from the Websters Dictionary and I got my definition from the Word of God called the Bible via Holy Spirit.

I said
I'm sorry but that couldnt be true. The word deity or divinity isnt in the Word of God. It might be in some off brand bible but it isnt in the Word of God.

 

[(Omega)]

you said
You got your term Divinity from the Websters Dictionary and I got my definition from the Word of God called the Bible via Holy Spirit.

I said
I'm sorry but that couldnt be true. The word deity or divinity isnt in the Word of God. It might be in some off brand bible but it isnt in the Word of God.

: : :
Are you sure about that my friend, let me explain if you are willing to understand with your heart.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was (the Word), and the (Word was with God), and the Word was (God).

I thought God and Deity are the Same, no?

God Bless!

 

[Vice]

Omega, although your heart might be in the right place, I urge you not to bother with SB.

If he were open to using intellect, reasoning from the scriptures, and honest Bible study, he would see that the word "Deity" is most certainly in the Bible. It occurs in the original Greek in Colossians 2:9 - theotaitos, which translates as either Godhead or Deity.

Colossians 2:9 is yet another verse explaining that Christ is God - "For in him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form." (NAS)

But SB isn't open to using intellect and reason. Nor is he interested in honest Bible study which involves studying the original languages that the Bible was written in -- Greek and Hebrew (and Aramaic). In fact, he probably believes that Jesus spoke NKJV English. Therefore, no one can counter any of his Arian arguments with the original Greek because only the NKJV English translation counts.

Let his threads fall into oblivion. There are many other interesting threads that fall within the veil of Christendom in this forum.

 

[(Omega)]

Amazing Vice I was just thinking the same thing after I posted!

God Bless!

 

[Squeakybro]

Omega you said

Are you sure about that my friend, let me explain if you are willing to understand with your heart.

Quote:
John 1:1 - In the beginning was (the Word), and the (Word was with God), and the Word was (God).


I thought God and Deity are the Same, no?

I said
I am sure about that. The word deity or divinity is NOT in the Word of God. No God and deity isnt the same thing. And because it isnt in the Word of God one cant look it up in a bible dictionary. So one has to go to the most authoritative source which is websters.

deity 1 a: often cap : divine nature or rank: the essintial nature of a god or of a supreme being: DIVINITY

di-vin-i-ty 1:the quality or state of being divine: nature or essence of God: GODHEAD (the divinity of Jesus) a celestial being inferior to the supreme God but superior to man<one of the subservient divinities>

and we know there are many false doctrines out there claiming to be the Word of God which they are not.

1 Tim 4:1-2

1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
(NKJ)