The Bible is a compost heap.....

[Jethro Bodine]

...calling another's faith into question, is not only demeaning to them and yourself, it shows a lack of compassion to others who may be early in their walk or trying to get a handle on His precious word.

Attacking the Word is not the signature of the new believer. Quite the opposite. In fact, there's probably nothing more encouraging than seeing a genuine new believer's love for the Word.

I will use my God given right (and responsibility) to decide who I consider in the faith or not when I hear someone say this about the Word:

"Plus the Bible is long, complicated, and a most of it looks like you’re reading a novel, not a cookbook."

At the same time the author says the Bible is not a cookbook (the only reasonable part of the OP to discuss, IMO) he says what I just quoted above about the Bible. My personal experience has shown me that the person who thinks this probably has not come to saving faith in Christ yet. At best this is a very underdeveloped and immature view of the Bible. But I've been a Christian long enough to see the progression of various 'believers' lives. It's amazing how time is the real test of being in the faith, and that someone with this feeling about the Word as their foundation is probably going to fall away from the faith. That has been my observation in the 26 years I've been a Christian hanging around other 'Christians'.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...others who may be early in their walk or trying to get a handle on His precious word.

I almost brought this up before. The OP is not the thinking a new believer needs to be exposed to. He/she needs to be hearing from God, not the opinions of people who probably are not even saved.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

On the cookbook analogy, I think the author is saying the bible is not like that and shouldn't be treated as one. Were not going to become good Christians simply by following the recipe

I actually agree with this. But it's what he adds to that that makes his experience with God suspect.

People who finally come to the realization that the Bible is not a systematic guide or formula of behaviors and beliefs that once topically applied rescue us from the pain of this life either dig in for the real thing and endure to the end anyway, or bail out. I don't believe they stay on some kind of middle ground. At least not for very long. And as I said, I'm of the opinion that most will bail out and will be found to be those of the second kind of soil Jesus talks about--the Word takes root for a little while but when trials and troubles, etc. come they fail because they had no root. I think the best way to tell if the Word has taken root in someone's life and will therefore persevere to the end is what they say about the Bible.

I say this with complete humility because I'm not done running my race either.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I look at the analogies Grazer has quoted this way

Someone owns a bible but never picks it up. It sits in the corner gathering dust, with insects chewing at it's unused pages. The acids in the ink break down the paper it is printed on. The paper deteriorates further and becomes brittle. The bindings start to perish. In essence the whole Tome is rotting away. (paper by it's very nature ie: coming from wood pulp does in fact break down into compost).
Then one day through crisis, enlightenment or a sense of need, the owner gingerly picks up this rotting copy of His word. He /she reads it and becomes filled with repentance,the Holy spiritis now at work within them. They open their heart to Jesus and transformtheir life. They are nowborn again asoneofHis children.
So out of the rotting detritus of life and a rotting copy of His word, new life comes.

The better way to look at it, and the way the Bible itself would portray it, is discovering the Word of God in these circumstances would be like finding old gold coins long out of circulation and unused but still valuable nonetheless.

 

[Grazer]

I almost brought this up before. The OP is not the thinking a new believer needs to be exposed to. He/she needs to be hearing from God, not the opinions of people who probably are not even saved.

Whether someone is saved depends on their relationship with Christ, nothing else

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[Jethro Bodine]

Whether someone is saved depends on their relationship with Christ, nothing else

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I've found that what a person thinks about the Word is a good litmus test for their relationship with God. That was the point I hoped you got out of my posts. You can't have a good relationship with God if you do not have a good relationship with the Word. Of course, those who disagree with that are likely to share the sentiment of the author in the OP about the Bible being more like a novel.

 

[Grazer]

I've found that what a person thinks about the Word is a good litmus test for their relationship with God. That was the point I hoped you got out of my posts. You can't have a good relationship with God if you do not have a good relationship with the Word. Of course, those who disagree with that are likely to share the sentiment of the author in the OP about the Bible being more like a novel.

Well how you can know the state of a persons relationship with Christ based on this, would probably mean you have powers close to God himself. But all I see is a Christian questioning another Christians faith on the basis of them using an analogy you wouldn't use. You want to pass judgment over my relationship with Christ whilst you're at it?

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[Grazer]

I've borrowed this from another forum I posted the link on. I like where they're coming from on it;

Those who find it offensive maybe don't understand compost. It's an amazingly rich life-giving...thing. Ok, yeah, it's sort of smelly but that's because of all the work going on inside it to make it so full of nutrients that make the garden grow.

I love compost. I'd never really considered it as a metaphor for the Bible before...but it kind of works

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[Jethro Bodine]

Well how you can know the state of a persons relationship with Christ based on this, would probably mean you have powers close to God himself. But all I see is a Christian questioning another Christians faith on the basis of them using an analogy you wouldn't use. You want to pass judgment over my relationship with Christ whilst you're at it?

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You sound like someone who doesn't know the Bible says we can judge (as in discern, not condemn) people.

If a person, you or anybody else, has a less than accepting attitude about the Bible they are demonstrating possible flaws in their relationship with God (if a person can't accept all of the Bible for what it says and what it is, how can they possibly be conformed to what the Bible says and is? It's only logical). And those flaws may actually be keeping them from being genuinely saved. Time will tell as I've shared. We have an obligation to guard ourselves against them. Somehow unbelievers understand that to mean to hate and despise them.

So, if you want to share your personal feelings about the Bible I will use my God given liberty to consider you a believer or not and treat you accordingly. What I believe about it is a matter of my personal privacy. And I can share it, or I can not. But even if I don't share what I think about someone, believers must relate differently to unbelievers than they do believers.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I've borrowed this from another forum I posted the link on. I like where they're coming from on it;

Those who find it offensive maybe don't understand compost. It's an amazingly rich life-giving...thing. Ok, yeah, it's sort of smelly but that's because of all the work going on inside it to make it so full of nutrients that make the garden grow.

Those who think it acceptable don't understand the Bible. It's simply NOT an analogy that God himself uses for his Word. As I said, the Bible suggests the old sinful life is the compost heap from which new life sprouts from, being nourished by the Word of God.

I love compost. I'd never really considered it as a metaphor for the Bible before...but it kind of works[/i]

It's simply not a metaphor that God uses except for unclean things. Like I said, if the Word of God was the nourishing compost for the new life the pigs in the parable Jesus taught would have gobbled it up. Instead, Biblically, compost, dung, ashes, etc. is the ground in which the nourishing Word of God can work from to bring the Word to fruition. The discarded compost in the world is the nourishment of the lost. That is where they find life. Like pigs voraciously devouring the earth and casting the things of God underfoot in the mad pursuit of that worldly nourishment.

 

[Grazer]

I didn't realise theological perfection was a pre requisite to getting into heaven. Yes we are to discern but it assumes you're standing from the correct position to begin with. I don't know about you but I like to keep an open mind on whether I am. Perhaps it is you who don't understand the bible or the analogy.

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[Grazer]

I never said the analogy was perfect but it does kind of work for me. It's got me thinking about the bible which is never a bad thing. I like coming at things from slightly off center angles, the most profound revelations can come from there. Since God gave me this type of mind, its safe to assume he wants me to use it

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[Jethro Bodine]

I didn't realise theological perfection was a pre requisite to getting into heaven.

It is if your theology causes you to miss salvation and keep you fast in your sins and out of God's grace of salvation.

Perhaps it is you who don't understand the bible or the analogy.

You are certainly free to use the Bible to show where I'm wrong. In fact, that's what you should be doing.

 

[Grazer]

It is if your theology causes you to miss salvation and keep you fast in your sins and out of God's grace of salvation.


You are certainly free to use the Bible to show where I'm wrong. In fact, that's what you should be doing.

I think I have already shown why you're wrong with explaining what compost does and how that relates to the bible. If you choose not to accept it there's nothing I can do. You've set your mind on it being wrong.

My relationship with Christ is not based on a particular interpretation of the bible. In fact, once I stopped trying to conform to other standards and was just myself (which was who God was after all along) my relationship with him improved exponentially.

At the end of the day, I've found the analogy helpful and kind of works as have others. You haven't.

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[wayseer]

But the analogy says the BIBLE is like manure, not us.

Who were the biblical texts written by ... ?

 

[felix]

The Bible is a compost heap for those who do not have His Word abiding in them. Which is why, even if the teachers of the law search and believe on Scriptures, they never believed the true messiah.

(John 5:38-39) But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

 

[Paul1965]

I've found that what a person thinks about the Word is a good litmus test for their relationship with God.

Whose litmus test, God's or yours?

The idea of using any analogy is to make a sometimes complex issue easier to understand is it not? As Grazer stated it has made him and possibly others delve deeper into God's word. Isn't that what we should all be doing?

On the theology, which theology is the correct one , please do tell me? The only 'True" theology is the one that brings one closer to God and makes you pleasing in His eyes. One the day of judgement, maybe some 'Theological experts" of different brand name churches, will be getting their come-uppance from our Lord for their twisting of His word.

At a deeper level, God created everything. He created,bacteria, moulds, fungi and microbes that break down dead detritus (compost) to create new life right from the beginning. So I can't see the problemwith the analogy.

When we fertilize our gardens, we use compost and things like blood n bone manures as well as dung from animals. If a curious passer-by asked
"Why are you spreading dung on your lawn?" You would probably answer along the lines of "because it's Good for garden and helpsit to grow"
That person may walk away armed with this new knowledge and do likewise to test it out and then become a convert tousing dung for their gardens.

If a non-believer passed us by as we were reading His word. And asked "what are you reading that for" you could answer " Because it is good and helps me to grow." Maybe , just maybe, the analogy of us" growing" would make the non believer pick up a copyof the Bible or attend church to see what all the fuss is about.

Again I'll state the blatantly obvious, an analogy is a way of making something easier to understand. It is not meant to be taken literaly. If it was , wouldn't we be worshiping a sheep? after all Our saviour is the Lamb of God right? That's an analogy right there and anybody who knows animals, knows sheep are followers and not the brightest as intelligence goes. But how wrong we would be to accept that analogy simply on it's wording.

 

[Paul1965]

But even if I don't share what I think about someone, believers must relate differently to unbelievers than they do believers.

Hmm, and here I was thinking that somewhere in we are commanded to 'Love our enemies as we love ourselves' a non-believer would be an enemy right? so we should treat them as we'd like to be treated right??
To treat them or relate to them differently shows the hypocrisy of many modern churches and theologies.
On one hand it's wrong to use an analogy to help people understand the power of His word simply because we don't like the wording, but on the other it is ok to discriminate in contadiction to His word.
If anything, we should make an extra effort to show the power of our Lord to unbelievers.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Hmm, and here I was thinking that somewhere in we are commanded to 'Love our enemies as we love ourselves' a non-believer would be an enemy right? so we should treat them as we'd like to be treated right??
To treat them or relate to them differently shows the hypocrisy of many modern churches and theologies.
On one hand it's wrong to use an analogy to help people understand the power of His word simply because we don't like the wording, but on the other it is ok to discriminate in contadiction to His word.
If anything, we should make an extra effort to show the power of our Lord to unbelievers.

You simply do not know the Bible:

17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Matthew 18:17 NIV1984

There are more examples.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Whose litmus test, God's or yours?

As I said, you simply do not know the Bible as well as you should, or you would know who's litmus test.

You're getting sassy. I'm not bothering with the rest of your post.