Bible Study The Bible & Suicide

[Lewis]

then well he was a pig. I would say the curse word over the phone but well I cant. a dirtbag is putting it midly.

Yeah he was a coward

 

[JLB]

a familiar spirit. not Samuel. saul never repented how could he be in that part of sheol if he died in sin. theres no verses that says he did. saul had the Spirit of the Lord depart from him so where was he then? can a man die in his sins and be in heaven?

Lets compare what you say, with what the scriptures say.

• Now Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?
• Samuel said: "Why then do you ask me, seeing the Lord has departed from you and has become your enemy?
• And the Lord has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David, Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day.

The Prophecy -

Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines."

Prophecy fulfilled -

So Saul, his three sons, his armorbearer, and all his men died together that same day. 1 Samuel 31:6


The scriptures reveal to us the truth.

The truth is Samuel spoke to Saul of the things that the Lord had told him is his life.

The truth is the scriptures teach us that Samuel prophesied to Saul the outcome of the battle the next day, which came to pass.

The truth is Saul went to be with Samuel in the heart of the earth called paradise.

I will have to strongly disagree with you, based on the overwhelming proof of the scriptures that are aligned against your opinion.




JLB

 

[jasonc]

Lets compare what you say, with what the scriptures say.

• Now Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?
• Samuel said: "Why then do you ask me, seeing the Lord has departed from you and has become your enemy?
• And the Lord has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David, Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day.

The Prophecy -

Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines."

Prophecy fulfilled -

So Saul, his three sons, his armorbearer, and all his men died together that same day. 1 Samuel 31:6


The scriptures reveal to us the truth.

The truth is Samuel spoke to Saul of the things that the Lord had told him is his life.

The truth is the scriptures teach us that Samuel prophesied to Saul the outcome of the battle the next day, which came to pass.

The truth is Saul went to be with Samuel in the heart of the earth called paradise.

I will have to strongly disagree with you, based on the overwhelming proof of the scriptures that are aligned against your opinion.




JLB

http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/all-women-bible/Witch-Endor

saul was a man who didn't repent. show me where he repented and said I want david to be king and accept the judgement of the lord. read that link. that last line says it. even if Samuel was a recalled, saul never changed his heart. he died and the lord didn't speak to him can you show me that the lord would allow anyone into heaven and he wouldn't speak to him?

The Philistines assembled and came and set up camp at Shunem, while Saul gathered all Israel and set up camp at Gilboa. 5 When Saul saw the Philistine army, he was afraid; terror filled his heart. 6 He inquired of the Lord, but the Lord did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets. 7 Saul then said to his attendants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her.”

so he died the next days. at least he was mentioning that in the same state as his body. dead.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Absolutely! It is an attack on the residing place and ministry place of our Savior. We are saved for a purpose. It is the will of God how we should life and glorify Him in our lives. We are bought with the price of our suffering Savior. For us to decide to end our suffering is not our to decide. Suffering the trials of war, or anything else is to the glory of the Almighty. To end my life would be the most selfish thing that I could ever do. My family would just begin to suffer anguish and hurt because of my premature death. I can not and must not end the life that the Almighty God created. I belong to Him, not me.

Chopper,
I'm smart enough to understand both of us are still studying this topic but I will tell you and all that your position is the largest reason suicide is not an option to settle my constant physical and mental pain. You've made good points here.

 

[JLB]

http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/all-women-bible/Witch-Endor

saul was a man who didn't repent. show me where he repented and said I want david to be king and accept the judgement of the lord. read that link. that last line says it. even if Samuel was a recalled, saul never changed his heart. he died and the lord didn't speak to him can you show me that the lord would allow anyone into heaven and he wouldn't speak to him?



so he died the next days. at least he was mentioning that in the same state as his body. dead.

Jason,

You have your opinion.

I will stick to what the scriptures teach.

Saul's suicide on the battlefield does not mean that suicide is acceptable to God, it does however address one aspect of it though, and for that reason I posted what the scriptures have to say about Saul.


Samuel specifically says; you and your sons will be with me.

Saul committed suicide.

Saul went to be with Samuel in Paradise.

Does that mean every suicide goes to be with God's people. No.

It means in the case of Saul, that He went to be with God's people in Paradise.

If a grieving parent asked me my advice about a child of theirs that was a christian and committed suicide, and was taught that their child was definitely in hell, I would share with them what the scriptures teach here about Saul.

These scriptures do not cover every persons case who commits suicide, but it does deal with the myth that every person who commits suicide goes to hell.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Does an elderly person who makes arrangement's with his or her loved ones to DNR, because they don't want to continue to suffer a prolonged and humiliating death, commit suicide?


JLB

 

[reba]

NO . Nor is it suicide to throw your self on a grenade for the life friends ....Some would think not doing everything possible to prolong our earthly life = suicide. I dont . Some will say pulling "the plug" from a loved one is murder i disagree....

God sends us helps.. (the joke) the guy looking for God to rescue him from the flood rejects the boat he is waiting a miracle... just an example of God's goofy kids. We dont all have the same measure of faith. Some will have faith for others and not themselves.. maybe some have faith for miracle healing some dont .
I will no longer say the man tormented in his mind, who ends his earthy life, is not with the Lord.

Lets say Sam a Christian man gets weird.... He starts getting angry, paranoid he prays he asks the church for prayer it just keeps getting worse he is over come he is attacking his family... he offs himself. Autopsy is done he had brain tumors.... are the tumors mightier then the Grace of God?
We dont walk in the other guys shoes we dont know his heart....yet....

In Lewis' story my sympathy/ understanding for the man ended when he killed his family....

 

[Chopper]

Those who contemplate suicide are caught up in three devastating feelings: hurt, abandonment and doubt as they feel no hope of the future. If they do not have a relationship with Christ through
that of a Spiritual rebirth, John 3:3-7, then they are already destined to go to the lake of fire as their names are not found in the Lambs book of Life and will come under Gods judgement.

Many Christians who are weak in faith also contemplate suicide when things get unbearable in their life because they become consumed with their problems leaning on their own understandings
instead of leaning on God whom is their help in times of trouble. This allows Satan who comes to kill, steal and destroy prey on them and steal what little faith they have.

The question is, even if they have weak faith do they still go to Hell if they commit suicide? I think it is possible because they lost all faith and hope in God therefore leaving themselves void of
God in their life, which would cause them to be separated from God as they turn from that faith which is Christ Jesus. We also have Gods commandment thou shall not kill. God will forgive a
murder who repents, but where is repentance if you are dead and can no longer ask for it. It repented (having regretted) Judas that he sold out for that of riches and even though he gave the
money back he went and hung himself, Matthew 27:3-5, instead of asking Jesus to forgive him instead.

We also have heard that our sins are forgiven past, present and future for Christ paid the price for all sin even though we fall short at times, but grace keeps us in that of Gods righteousness
which is found in us and God knows the intents of our hearts. If one ask for forgiveness before they sin are they forgiven? Answer to that in my perspective would be why would one sin willingly
knowing they are going to sin. Grace does not give us a license to sin.

God is the life giver and in Him are we made in His image. Who has that right to take away what God has given.

Psalms 33:18 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;
Psalms 33:19 To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine.
Psalms 33:20 Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and our shield.
Psalms 33:21 For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name.
Psalms 33:22 Let thy mercy, O LORD, be upon us, according as we hope in

1Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Proverbs 3:1 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
Proverbs 3:2 For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.
Proverbs 3:3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
Proverbs 3:4 So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Proverbs 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Thank you for that very factual and Biblical response to the OP. I applaud your research and conclusions.

 

[Chopper]

nt
you have made a logical fallacy. no true Scotsman would. uhm 1 corinithians 7 is talking about what sin? fornication.

therefore fornication is also blaspheme against the holy ghost. how many Christians commit that? a lot. I understand and never said it wasn't a sin. just how you say that no real Christian would do that. Christians do falter. if you can show me that we don't fornicate then you have made the case. but we know that Christians fornicate, adulterate. theres drivers for any addiction or sin that satan uses. that doesn't justify the sin just that sometimes we must look at them to understand why we do what we do.

read what I said about porn and what drew me there in the mens forum.

so you would be happy and or depressed if you lost your grandchildren. I know people greater in the faith then me have their faith shaken and still served but I know they were down and depressed. they choose to serve but I know it wasn't easy. sometimes we might fail to do that. in my case since I hate emotions, and others I have met recently have said the same it makes us vulnerable to this. because we don't want to share our pain let alone feel it. does that make one any less of a Christian?

what you see Christ_empowered praying for healing. I have in part prayed. its the reason I came to Christ. not because of I was a sinner and hellion. though I did some of that, but because I saw my life wasn't where I wanted it and so I asked god to heal me and repented of my sins.

I'm very confused about your opening remark.
"you have made a logical fallacy. no true Scotsman would. uhm 1 corinithians 7 is talking about what sin? fornication."

I did not refer to 1 Corinthians 7. My reference was 1 Corinthians 3:13-17. And, by the way, I'm Irish (green)

 

[Chopper]

I disagree.

The Lord foretold the outcome through Samuel. Even though Samuel had passed on.

Now Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do." 16 Then Samuel said: "Why then do you ask me, seeing the Lord has departed from you and has become your enemy? 17 And the Lord has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day. 19 Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines."
1 Samuel 28:15-19
Key phrase -

tomorrow you and your sons will be with me.

Samuel was in Paradise, which is to say Abraham's Bosom, down in the heart of the earth.

JLB

Well, since this is not a debate forum, I won't respond. You are certainly welcome to your belief.

 

[Chopper]

Chopper,
I'm smart enough to understand both of us are still studying this topic but I will tell you and all that your position is the largest reason suicide is not an option to settle my constant physical and mental pain. You've made good points here.

Oh my good friend Bill, You and I have considered suicide. I came close at one time. The Scripture that I quoted about God destroying someone who destroys the temple of the Holy Spirit kept me from it. I am still in a lot of back pain as I know that you are. Our love for our Master beckons us on. His will, not ours. Love you!

 

[for_his_glory]

Saul died with the hope and faith in Gods word through the Prophet Samuel.

Saul knew he would would be with Samuel when he died, though he committed suicide on the battlefield.

Saul did not die being in the Lord and nor did he talk to Samuel as this unfamiliar spirit took on the form of Samuel to deceive him. Saul is now in his grave waiting that of the lake of fire as his name is not written in the Lambs book of life, but will face Gods judgement for being an abomination to God. God rejected Saul for his disobedience against Him.

1Ch 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;
1Ch 10:14 And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.
Deu 18:9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

 

[JLB]

Well, since this is not a debate forum, I won't respond. You are certainly welcome to your belief.

There are certainly scriptures that validate the other side of the coin.

The one you chose about The Lord will destroy those who destroy his temple is certainly valid.

JLB

 

[Gary]

If someone were contemplating suicide and they came to this thread looking for answers, would they find them?
.

 

[Northman]

If someone were contemplating suicide and they came to this thread looking for answers, would they find them?
.

Dont see how that would be possible.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Oh my good friend Bill, You and I have considered suicide. I came close at one time. The Scripture that I quoted about God destroying someone who destroys the temple of the Holy Spirit kept me from it. I am still in a lot of back pain as I know that you are. Our love for our Master beckons us on. His will, not ours. Love you!

Contrary to popular belief, there is rest for the weary... just not here.

God bless old warrior.

 

[jasonc]

I'm very confused about your opening remark.
"you have made a logical fallacy. no true Scotsman would. uhm 1 corinithians 7 is talking about what sin? fornication."

I did not refer to 1 Corinthians 7. My reference was 1 Corinthians 3:13-17. And, by the way, I'm Irish (green)

that is the name of the fallacy, the direct verse that references the body being the temple is the Corinthians 7.
in jewish thought, and history what was the aod? it was pagan worship in the temple, greek gods often used sex in their worship. thus my point of fornication. the jews mixed the worship and weeping for tammuz( the fertility god with her sex practices in the temple of Solomon and god did what to the Hebrews?) take that now see my case. that is how any jew then would take that to be.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Dont see how that would be possible.

It would only be for the lack of discernment, my friend. There are those of us that have considered it for better than forty years now and we have made the trip and we will make it. Until you've, as a lost man, gotten your very best friend drunk and killed, found him blown into more pieces than you can count, awakened so many nights in the past forty years with his head in an ammo box looking at you, you cannot know the real desire to die. But as I said, there are members here that have made this and even worse trips, and succeeded.

 

[jasonc]

NO . Nor is it suicide to throw your self on a grenade for the life friends ....Some would think not doing everything possible to prolong our earthly life = suicide. I dont . Some will say pulling "the plug" from a loved one is murder i disagree....

God sends us helps.. (the joke) the guy looking for God to rescue him from the flood rejects the boat he is waiting a miracle... just an example of God's goofy kids. We dont all have the same measure of faith. Some will have faith for others and not themselves.. maybe some have faith for miracle healing some dont .
I will no longer say the man tormented in his mind, who ends his earthy life, is not with the Lord.

Lets say Sam a Christian man gets weird.... He starts getting angry, paranoid he prays he asks the church for prayer it just keeps getting worse he is over come he is attacking his family... he offs himself. Autopsy is done he had brain tumors.... are the tumors mightier then the Grace of God?
We dont walk in the other guys shoes we dont know his heart....yet....

In Lewis' story my sympathy/ understanding for the man ended when he killed his family....

you are for euthanasia or to allow a man to say I have cancer and im old and I don't want chemo and choose to die. my friend did that and she was 82, she was saved, it was too hard on her the first time and she had strokes in the recovery stage and wanted to live life. so she died two weeks after telling this sickness feels like cancer.my great aunt a Christian died at the age of 92, she just got sick and came too and told the doctor in the hospital. let me go home to die in my bed. three days later she died at home where she wanted and was at peace when she did so.

 

[th1b.taylor]

NO . Nor is it suicide to throw your self on a grenade for the life friends ....Some would think not doing everything possible to prolong our earthly life = suicide. I dont . Some will say pulling "the plug" from a loved one is murder i disagree....

God sends us helps.. (the joke) the guy looking for God to rescue him from the flood rejects the boat he is waiting a miracle... just an example of God's goofy kids. We dont all have the same measure of faith. Some will have faith for others and not themselves.. maybe some have faith for miracle healing some dont .
I will no longer say the man tormented in his mind, who ends his earthy life, is not with the Lord.

Lets say Sam a Christian man gets weird.... He starts getting angry, paranoid he prays he asks the church for prayer it just keeps getting worse he is over come he is attacking his family... he offs himself. Autopsy is done he had brain tumors.... are the tumors mightier then the Grace of God?
We dont walk in the other guys shoes we dont know his heart....yet....

In Lewis' story my sympathy/ understanding for the man ended when he killed his family....

Reba,
There is nothing sadder than the man that loved his friends so much that he died in their stead and that is bravery. I've moved such to Graves and Regestration and there is no more loved or respected men in this world. There can never be enough homage paid to these. They did not wish anyone to die.

God bless young lady.