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The Bible...take it or leave it ?

  • Thread starter follower of Christ
  • Start date
if one cant have faith that the lord is able to preserve a written book, how can he believe in salvation. if god is too small to do that how can he heal, save and so on.
are there small errors in the bible translations yes, mainly from translating the greek and hebrew to english and probably others,

english is such a limited language unlike greek,hebrew,latin and others(many).
 
Re: I have to ask

Physicist said:
glorydaz said:
My goodness. I think man is busy out-smarting himself again.
I can say with all confidence that the Bible I hold in my hand is the very one God wants me to hold.
If the Lord wanted it to come in some circuitous manner, I'll thank Him for that.

I know we live in the last days, but I would have never imagined there would be such an all-out assault on the Word of God. It's served Christians quite well down through the ages, and suddenly we have people coming out of the woodwork to try and spread doubt among the believers. :bigfrown


Pardon me, but I have to ask, " Are these your true personal views? Occasionally non-believers will characachurize Christian views. If this is the case, I suggest moving it to Landover Baptist. My answer assumes that this IS your actual beliefs.

Have you studied any of the history of how the Biblical canon was assembled? A good first book is "Who wrote the New Testament" by Burton Mack, Professor of early Christianity at the School of Theology at Claremont College. Also, Bart Ehrman, Chair of the Department of Religious Studies at the U. of North Carolina. has written several introductory texts. If neither of these are available to you, read the Christian history section in any good Encyclopedia such as Britannica.

If you do your homework, you will see that the Bible you use has evolved considerably over the years. The genuine Pauline letters were the earliest written texts, sometime around the mid-first century. Next was the Mark gospel, around the year 70. The authors of the Matthew and Luke gospel (all the gospels were anonymous so we don't know the names of the authors) used Mark and another lost source called Q. Much of the rest of the canon involves works were written in the second century; 2 Timothy falls into this category.

The first Christian 'canon' was assembled in the second century by the Gnostic, Marcion. He used an early version of the Luke gospel and the genuine Pauline letters. In the fourth century, some Catholic Bishops took a vote on what eventually became the modern Bible. Rather, several church councils voted for conflicting lists, the contradictions of which took centuries more to resolve. Because of differences over the Apocrypha, there remains no agreement about which books are in the Christian Old Testament.

The actual works themselves have changed over time. Church Patriarch, Origen, complained about the many various versions of each of the gospels. Some of these changes came quite late. For example, the fourth century version of Mark ended at 16:8.

To blindly accept the present Bible as infallible is to put faith over reason.
Ah, by grace we are saved through faith. If I can't have enough faith to believe the Word of God rather than man's endless attempts to tear it down and destroy it, then I'd best spend more time on my knees.
Mark 10:27 said:
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
It isn't my intellect that leads me to the wonderful truths I find in the Bible. I praise the Lord I can come with the faith of a child and be shown exactly what the Lord has for me. The Bible has changed hearts and lives in spite of what man may see as errors. I have no desire to read about the Bible. Life is not in reading man's wisdom, but in eating daily from the bread of life. No one will ever convince me that God is unable to keep His truth for His children.
Psalm 146:6 said:
Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which keepeth truth for ever:
 
All Scripture is God-breathed, and Useful for Teaching

I disagree .... If only parts of the Bible are inspired, then which parts should we accept as inspired. This is where people get into trouble, like the Mormons, who will only accept the Bible (parts of the Bible) that they FEEL is truth.

We can rest assured that the Bible we have today is what God wanted His people to have, and to consider as His holy scriptures. Yes, all scriptures, including ALL of the Bible.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

seekandlisten said:
follower of Christ said:
Is the bible our foundation for Gods truth ?
What role does the bible play in the life of the believer ?

Im including a short passage from 2 Timothy that I believe shows us very clearly what the bible should be to the church. That we NEED to be very concerned about doctrine and making certain that we are aligned with His word to the best of our ability.
Dotrine seemed to be pretty important issue to Paul and Timothy. Should it be any less meaningful for the rest of us ?
The following really doesnt leave much guesswork as to how Paul felt about the scriptures in the life of the believer.
You however have carefully followed my doctrine, lifestyle, purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, in Iconium, at Lystra--what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. But evil men and impostors shall advance worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be proficient, having been thoroughly equipped for every good work.
(2 Timothy 3:10-17 EMTV)


Well, I'm sure this will turn into a wonderful debate, but I'm bored so I'll bite.

"Is the bible our foundation for Gods truth ?" No, Christ is the foundation for God's Truth.

"What role does the bible play in the life of the believer ?"
Personal learning, guidance, rebuke, and whatever God chooses to reveal through it.

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,[/u] that the man of God may be proficient, having been thoroughly equipped for every good work."

This part gets taken to all sorts of levels. God did not literally speak the words written in the bible. God did 'inspire' the men that wrote the bible and His Word is contained in the bible. 'All Scripture' does not refer to the canonized bible as that didn't happen yet. More or less the bible contains the Word of God it is however not literally the Word of God.
 
When Was the Bible Canonized?

Wasn't the Bible as we have it today cannonzied around the 3rd or 4th century? I believe it was somewhere around the end of the 4th century ...

seekandlisten said:
toddm said:
seekandlisten said:
This part gets taken to all sorts of levels. God did not literally speak the words written in the bible. God did 'inspire' the men that wrote the bible and His Word is contained in the bible. 'All Scripture' does not refer to the canonized bible as that didn't happen yet. More or less the bible contains the Word of God it is however not literally the Word of God.
What is your definition of "inspired"? And where do you get this idea from that all 66 books of the canon are not literally the Word of God? Which books/sections are "uninspired"?

I think I put my definition of 'inspired' in my earlier post. I guess I could add that I believe it's 'God-breathed' in that if we ask God, He reveals Himself in Scripture. Why should all 66 books be considered the "literal" Word of God? When was 2 Timothy written? When was the bible canonized? Look it up but I'm pretty sure the final version of the bible we have was canonized in the 15th cenury. I never said any books/section were uninspired.
 
follower of Christ said:
seekandlisten said:
Why should all 66 books be considered the "literal" Word of God?
So you get to decide what you think is inspired or not ?
Meaning that if letter contains something you dont like you can just dismiss it as 'uninspired'?
If so, thats pretty convenient, dont you think ?
:)

That is one of the ways that so many cults get started. People come up with all kinds of excuses why there is something wrong with the Bible, or choose the parts they want to keep, and then they can support their false teachings, and continue to lead many people astray, and away from God ....
 
glorydaz said:
My goodness. I think man is busy out-smarting himself again.
I can say with all confidence that the Bible I hold in my hand is the very one God wants me to hold.
If the Lord wanted it to come in some circuitous manner, I'll thank Him for that.

I know we live in the last days, but I would have never imagined there would be such an all-out assault on the Word of God. It's served Christians quite well down through the ages, and suddenly we have people coming out of the woodwork to try and spread doubt among the believers. :bigfrown

The Bible warns us that this will happen:

2 Peter 3

3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
 
Itching Ears - Turning Away from the Truth

2 Timothy 4

2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

We see many people turning away from the truth of the Bible, doing just as the Bible claims will happen -- not holding to sound doctrine, hearing only what they want to hear, to satisfy their itching ears ...
 
Re: Itching Ears - Turning Away from the Truth

vja4Him said:
2 Timothy 4

2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

We see many people turning away from the truth of the Bible, doing just as the Bible claims will happen -- not holding to sound doctrine, hearing only what they want to hear, to satisfy their itching ears ...

We're standing on the Word of God, brother. :study
 
These teachings that are not Biblical have been coming out for a long time. I have read books written in the early 80's that warned about "Christians" distorting the truth. Preaching another Gospel with another spirit. Today we are bombarded with books that are promoting this false Gospel. As soon as someone has a diminished view of the Bible they tend to move towards a "spirit" enriched life, unfortunately this is not the Holy spirit. Their are titles out their like "A New Kind of Christian - B Maclaren" - I never new the gospel changed, why would there need to be a new kind of Christian. Although my faith is in Christ, the Bible has to be the foundation on which I live.
 
Re: Itching Ears - Turning Away from the Truth

glorydaz said:
vja4Him said:
2 Timothy 4

2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

We see many people turning away from the truth of the Bible, doing just as the Bible claims will happen -- not holding to sound doctrine, hearing only what they want to hear, to satisfy their itching ears ...

We're standing on the Word of God, brother. :study

Amen!

Deuteronomy 6:5-10

5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

I take this scripture to heart, and have written out many scriptures in bold felt pen, and have them all over our house, for myself, my children, and guests.
 
Ed the Ned said:
These teachings that are not Biblical have been coming out for a long time. I have read books written in the early 80's that warned about "Christians" distorting the truth. Preaching another Gospel with another spirit. Today we are bombarded with books that are promoting this false Gospel. As soon as someone has a diminished view of the Bible they tend to move towards a "spirit" enriched life, unfortunately this is not the Holy spirit. Their are titles out their like "A New Kind of Christian - B Maclaren" - I never new the gospel changed, why would there need to be a new kind of Christian. Although my faith is in Christ, the Bible has to be the foundation on which I live.

Amen! And this is exactly why the Bible MUST be the standard and final authority. Otherwise, who do we listen to? There are so many teachers, preachers, evangelists, prophets, and much of what they say does not agree with the Bible.
 
Re: Itching Ears - Turning Away from the Truth

vja4Him said:
glorydaz said:
We're standing on the Word of God, brother. :study

Amen!

Deuteronomy 6:5-10

5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

I take this scripture to heart, and have written out many scriptures in bold felt pen, and have them all over our house, for myself, my children, and guests.

Great idea. :thumb
I've got notebooks filled with scripture...if they ever take my Bible, I'll just drag those out. :amen
Plus...I've spent years memorizing verses, and have them hid away in my heart. No one can take those.
 
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