The Bible...take it or leave it ?

[seekandlisten]

Interesting.....especially with Joan of Arc being a martyr.

She was a fallible woman, not an inspired writer of scripture.

.

Who's claiming she's writing scripture?? She died for her faith in God! I'm not going to bring shame to the stand she made. Or deny that she might have some insight that I can apply to my life.

 

[follower of Christ]

Well if I don't have to deal with numerous posts saying essentially the same thing and as long as no one is going to outright attack me personally I will discuss it in this thread alone if ok with the moderators.

Its my threads and I have no problem with it, so I dont see why moderation would care one way or another

I will simply present facts relating to the doctrine itself. Do you have anything other then John 1?

Are you kidding ?
Ive posted a study on it two dozen times or so. Did you miss it somehow ?
And Ive still got a long way to go with it.

I will not resort to personal attacks and will discontinue this conversation if they are made against me. Disagree all you want just don't attack my character please.

No one has attacked your character.
Pointing out the fact that you agree with non christian gurus isnt attacking you. Its simply showing what youve already admitted.

 

[follower of Christ]

Who's claiming she's writing scripture?? She died for her faith in God! I'm not going to bring shame to the stand she made. Or deny that she might have some insight that I can apply to my life.

It sounded more like you were using her words as meaning that I cant trust Gods word alone for doctrine

.

 

[seekandlisten]

I will not resort to personal attacks and will discontinue this conversation if they are made against me. Disagree all you want just don't attack my character please.

No one has attacked your character.
Pointing out the fact that you agree with non christian gurus isnt attacking you. Its simply showing what youve already admitted.

Did I say I agreed with everything Guru Nanak said? No. Another of your if you say this you really mean this arguments. What have I admitted? That I seek God and continue seeking Him? Do you think all there is to know about God can be learned in one lifetime? Who decided that Guru Nanak wasn't a Christian? I don't get that impression and I don't think you have the authority to assert that.

 

[seekandlisten]

Who's claiming she's writing scripture?? She died for her faith in God! I'm not going to bring shame to the stand she made. Or deny that she might have some insight that I can apply to my life.

It sounded more like you were using her words as meaning that I cant trust Gods word alone for doctrine

.

Again what your assumptions get you. There is a difference between doctrine and something that agrees with what you believe and can be applied to your personal life? I presented those quotes as things I've picked up along the way that I have decided to keep as 'tidbits' so to speak. You seem to think I can't gain anything useful unless its in the bible itself.

 

[follower of Christ]

Did I say I agreed with everything Guru Nanak said? No.

I didnt say that you did, now did I ? ;)
I little leaven works through the whole batch, friend.

Another of your if you say this you really mean this arguments. What have I admitted?

To looking to something other than truth to find truth.

That I seek God and continue seeking Him? Do you think all there is to know about God can be learned in one lifetime?

What I know is that ALL we need to know about the One True God can be found in the book we call the Bible.

Who decided that Guru Nanak wasn't a Christian?

Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father. Did this guru teach this fact ?

I don't get that impression and I don't think you have the authority to assert that.

We know them by their fruits.
If the man didnt teach that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to the Father then he simply is NOT christian...no question about it.

 

[follower of Christ]

Again what your assumptions get you.

How about you making yourself clear when you post something from here on out, or stop complaining if someone has to assume, using the context of a post, what your intent is ?

There is a difference between doctrine and something that agrees with what you believe and can be applied to your personal life?

Are we just looking for things that agree with what we want to believe ?

I presented those quotes as things I've picked up along the way that I have decided to keep as 'tidbits' so to speak. You seem to think I can't gain anything useful unless its in the bible itself.

Any 'truth' outside of what the bible teaches on the topic of God is questionable at best.

 

[seekandlisten]

Again what your assumptions get you.

How about you making yourself clear when you post something from here on out, or stop complaining if someone has to assume, using the context of a post, what your intent is ?

How about actually listening to what I am saying rather then just telling me what you think. That is how a discussion works. You've already admitted to baiting and trapping me for your amusement so forgive me if I enter a conversation with you with a lot of skepticism. You present you intent honestly and I'll try to make my intent more clear. Deal?

There is a difference between doctrine and something that agrees with what you believe and can be applied to your personal life?

Are we just looking for things that agree with what we want to believe ?

No on has said this that I know of.

I presented those quotes as things I've picked up along the way that I have decided to keep as 'tidbits' so to speak. You seem to think I can't gain anything useful unless its in the bible itself.

Any 'truth' outside of what the bible teaches on the topic of God is questionable at best.

Well, I can agree skepticism is a must when searching for truth in many areas.

 

[follower of Christ]

How about actually listening to what I am saying rather then just telling me what you think.

As I said, make yourself clear. I can only go by the context of your posts.

That is how a discussion works. You've already admitted to baiting and trapping me for your amusement so forgive me if I enter a conversation with you with a lot of skepticism.

It was hardly for amusement, gent. This is deadly serious as souls are on the line.

You present you intent honestly and I'll try to make my intent more clear. Deal?

No one asked you to post here, S....that choice was yours alone. That I knew you couldnt resist and that I wanted to find something out about your religious views says nothing about honesty. No one drew you in here...you came of your own free will.

No on has said this that I know of.

Havent they ?

There is a difference between doctrine and something that agrees with what you believe and can be applied to your personal life?

Well, I can agree skepticism is a must when searching for truth in many areas.

Gods truth is found in His word and in His Spirit.

 

[seekandlisten]

Well, if all you wanted was to know my religious views all you had to do was ask. You didn't need to set a 'trap' so you could play your little game. Thanks for the lesson. Take care.

 

[follower of Christ]

Well, if all you wanted was to know my religious views all you had to do was ask. You didn't need to set a 'trap' so you could play your little game. Thanks for the lesson. Take care.

Ive found that most will only give so much when they know someone is actively looking for something.
I didnt know if thats how you would respond or not. If I asked first then you go on the defense and we dont find anything out.

I wanted to know what your religious affiliations and background were and the scriptures seemed to be the best way to find out.
Its as simple as that

 

[toddm]

What do you mean other than what I've already stated. I simply don't believe in the ridiculousness of doctrines being made over spelling, contradictions found, breaking down every literal translation of each word syllable etc to get a point across.

Can you clarify this statement? What doctrines are you referring to exactly that have been made over spelling errors and contradictions? What parts of the Bible do you think are inspired and which ones are not? You say that the Bible is more or less partially inspired, so I'm just wondering how you discern which parts are inspired and which ones aren't. Can you explain your technique for Scripture interpretation.

 

[AAA]

It's the still small voice we should be listening too.

Ok
And when your 'still small voice' contradicts mine in a given matter ?
Which of us, if either, is being directed by God ?

Neither. :D

 

[follower of Christ]

It's the still small voice we should be listening too.

Ok
And when your 'still small voice' contradicts mine in a given matter ?
Which of us, if either, is being directed by God ?

Neither. :D

;)


.

 

[glorydaz]

I'll go with the still small voice that is agreement with the Word of God.

Yes, the Bible is inspired, infallible and all truth. I don't care what version I read, they all say the same thing to me. It's the Holy Spirit that quickens the Word to the heart of the believer and it always agrees with itself. If there's ever a verse that doesn't seem to make sense, I keep looking. And, guess what? I will find twenty other verses that make that one clear. The wisdom of men is trash, as far as I'm concerned. I don't care how good it sounds...if it can't be verified from the Bible it's a lie. The Bible is the living Word of God and everything needs to be measured against the truth it contains. My feeling is that if a person doesn't believe the Bible is the Word of God they aren't a Christian. That may sound harsh, but people can't throw out parts of the Bible without throwing out parts of God. If someone stands on one verse and excudes others they aren't looking for the truth, they're looking for support for their own lying doctrines.

 

[toddm]

I'll go with the still small voice that is agreement with the Word of God.

Yes, the Bible is inspired, infallible and all truth. I don't care what version I read, they all say the same thing to me. It's the Holy Spirit that quickens the Word to the heart of the believer and it always agrees with itself. If there's ever a verse that doesn't seem to make sense, I keep looking. And, guess what? I will find twenty other verses that make that one clear. The wisdom of men is trash, as far as I'm concerned. I don't care how good it sounds...if it can't be verified from the Bible it's a lie. The Bible is the living Word of God and everything needs to be measured against the truth it contains. My feeling is that if a person doesn't believe the Bible is the Word of God they aren't a Christian. That may sound harsh, but people can't throw out parts of the Bible without throwing out parts of God. If someone stands on one verse and excudes others they aren't looking for the truth, they're looking for support for their own lying doctrines.

Amen, Amen, Amen! Couldn't have said it better!

 

[Physicist]

Paul didn't say this

Is the bible our foundation for Gods truth ?
What role does the bible play in the life of the believer ?

Im including a short passage from 2 Timothy that I believe shows us very clearly what the bible should be to the church. That we NEED to be very concerned about doctrine and making certain that we are aligned with His word to the best of our ability.
Dotrine seemed to be pretty important issue to Paul and Timothy. Should it be any less meaningful for the rest of us ?
The following really doesnt leave much guesswork as to how Paul felt about the scriptures in the life of the believer.

You however have carefully followed my doctrine, lifestyle, purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, in Iconium, at Lystra--what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. But evil men and impostors shall advance worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be proficient, having been thoroughly equipped for every good work.
(2 Timothy 3:10-17 EMTV)

Most experts think that 2 Timothy was written in the second century, long after Paul was dead. Moreover, when Paul refers to the 'Scriptures' in his genuine letters, he is referring to OT, and perhaps ancient Hebrew writings that did not make it into the Bible, because the NT gospels had not yet been written.

Bart Ehrmann has written a book for the layman, called 'Misquoting Jesus', that examines how the KJV Bible evolved. I think one has to let faith override reason to take the current Bible as the infallible word of God.

 

[follower of Christ]

Re: Paul didn't say this

Most experts think that 2 Timothy was written in the second century, long after Paul was dead.

Well ya know...seeing that none of them were THERE I think Ill go with the bible on this one

Moreover, when Paul refers to the 'Scriptures' in his genuine letters, he is referring to OT, and perhaps ancient Hebrew writings that did not make it into the Bible, because the NT gospels had not yet been written.

Most likely Paul was.
Paul wasnt such an egomaniac that he would SAY that his letters were equal to Gods own OT law.
Nor did Jesus run around saying "I'M GOD" ;)

Doesnt mean that Pauls writings arent scripture for the church or that Jesus isnt God, however

 

[Free]

Well ya know...seeing that none of them were THERE I think Ill go with the bible on this one

I'm not sure how that refutes Physicist's point since you weren't there either.

 

[follower of Christ]

Well ya know...seeing that none of them were THERE I think Ill go with the bible on this one

I'm not sure how that refutes Physicist's point since you weren't there either.

Huh.
Well now ya see, friend, *I* have this little book in my hand called the 'Bible' that INCLUDES the passage in question.
So telling me that some contemporary scholar has concluded that that passage doesnt belong is pretty much on THEM to PROVE that it doesnt.
Its in my bible. Its on you or whomever to prove that its not authentic