'The Bible tells me so' is wrong

[OzSpen]

There is no difference between the Word (written) and the Spirit.

smaller,

Are you telling me that what the Spirit tells you in your spirit/soul is no different from that which is in Scripture? Are you making the Spirit talking to you to have the same authoritative content as the words of Scripture.

We know from 2 Tim 3:16 (ESV) that 'All Scripture is breathed out by God'. So 'all Scripture' is theopneustos. It does not say 'all Scripture, which means all Spirit, is theopneustos.

Oz

 

[smaller]

smaller,

Are you telling me that what the Spirit tells you in your spirit/soul is no different from that which is in Scripture?

Don't know how that relates to the observation. Perfect Word of God. Perfect Spirit of God. Seeing darkly and knowing only in part readers (1 Cor. 13:12.) Make whatever conclusions you want to make from the mix.

Are you making the Spirit talking to you to have the same authoritative content as the words of Scripture.

Well, I'm not apt to be taking sucker bait anytime soon my friend.

Here is the status of all who have called upon Jesus to save them:

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Do we currently know, perceive, understand the entirety of that matter? Uh, no. But I do see believers in that light.

We know from 2 Tim 3:16 (ESV) that 'All Scripture is breathed out by God'. So 'all Scripture' is theopneustos. It does not say 'all Scripture, which means all Spirit, is theopneustos.

Oz

IF you want to pile into the mix and claim a difference between Gods Words and Gods Spirit, be my guest. I see no difference or division in these matters of observations.

 

[Douglas Summers]

John 6:44 (ESV), 'No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day'.

Hi Oz, I agree. I had that Scripture in my post, you must have missed it: "Man has only one part in this process, to believe. (Rom. 10:13-17) (John 6:41-51) (Matt. 13:15) (Luke 13:6-9) (John 12:25)"

 

[OzSpen]

Don't know how that relates to the observation. Perfect Word of God. Perfect Spirit of God. Seeing darkly and knowing only in part readers (1 Cor. 13:12.) Make whatever conclusions you want to make from the mix.

Well, I'm not apt to be taking sucker bait anytime soon my friend.

Here is the status of all who have called upon Jesus to save them:

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Do we currently know, perceive, understand the entirety of that matter? Uh, no. But I do see believers in that light.

IF you want to pile into the mix and claim a difference between Gods Words and Gods Spirit, be my guest. I see no difference or division in these matters of observations.

I asked serious questions about the meaning of your rather strange statement, 'There is no difference between the Word (written) and the Spirit'. But you don't want to answer them.

Which Spirit is talking and how is he talking to you?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Hi Oz, I agree. I had that Scripture in my post, you must have missed it: "Man has only one part in this process, to believe. (Rom. 10:13-17) (John 6:41-51) (Matt. 13:15) (Luke 13:6-9) (John 12:25)"

I missed it, Doug, because I don't see John 6:41-51 (ESV) as a human being's part. Instead, it deals with God's part of drawing people to Christ.

Oz

 

[smaller]

I asked serious questions about the meaning of your rather strange statement, 'There is no difference between the Word (written) and the Spirit'. But you don't want to answer them.

You consider that strange?

Which Spirit is talking and how is he talking to you?

Bait somebody else.

Ephesians 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

 

[ezrider]

Some apparently have a problem making a distinction between the Spirit of God, the Word of God, and the written words of God known as the Holy Bible. Some make no distinction between the Bible and the Spirit of God. Some like to keep the Spirit of God nicely contained within the ink on the pages of a book. Some have made the Bible their god, and they worship and defend the words written in ink.

The Apostle John wrote in his gospel that if all the things that Jesus said and did were written down, all the books of the world could not contain them. John 21:25

Yet some want to limit the Spirit of God to just those few pages that where written? Making no distinction between the Spirit of God and the words of the Bible?

 

[smaller]

Some apparently have a problem making a distinction between the Spirit of God, the Word of God, and the written words of God known as the Holy Bible. Some make no distinction between the Bible and the Spirit of God. Some like to keep the Spirit of God nicely contained within the ink on the pages of a book. Some have made the Bible their god, and they worship and defend the words written in ink.

The Apostle John wrote in his gospel that if all the things that Jesus said and did were written down, all the books of the world could not contain them. John 21:25

Yet some want to limit the Spirit of God to just those few pages that where written? Making no distinction between the Spirit of God and the words of the Bible?

The above sight is an exact case in point.

2 Timothy 2:9
Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

There is no difference in The Living Author and His Living Words.

Acts 6:7
And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

 

[OzSpen]

You consider that strange?

Bait somebody else.

Ephesians 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

I am not baiting you. I'm asking a serious question.

You continue to quote Ephesians 6:17, but you are not explaining what you are driving at.

When you state, 'There is no difference between the Word (written) and the Spirit', you need to defend that position. Quoting that verse does not provide exposition of your understanding of the meaning.

The word of God is the sword to use - the sword of the Spirit. That does not mean that there is no difference between the written word and the sword. It means that if one wants to use the Spirit's sword, use the Word of God. By the way, the Greek word translated as 'word' in Eph 6:17 (ESV) is phema and not logos.

Oz

 

[smaller]

I am not baiting you. I'm asking a serious question.

When you start asking what Spirit is talking to me, that's baiting.

The Word speaks for itself.

You continue to quote Ephesians 6:17, but you are not explaining what you are driving at.

When you state, 'There is no difference between the Word (written) and the Spirit', you need to defend that position. Quoting that verse does not provide exposition of your understanding of the meaning.

I see no difference between the "rhema" of God and "The Word of God." Unless our theological methods are to slice God to pieces.

The word of God is the sword to use - the sword of the Spirit. That does not mean that there is no difference between the written word and the sword. It means that if one wants to use the Spirit's sword, use the Word of God. By the way, the Greek word translated as 'word' in Eph 6:17 (ESV) is phema and not logos.

Oz

Are you going to claim the phema/rhema of God and the Logos of God are DIFFERENT? Divided? Not in "accord?" Working at odds? Logos is dead and gone, relegated to "LOGO PAST and DONE, no more applicable?" That the rhema lives/abides in us, but not the logos?

We know that the law is spiritual, Romans 7:14. The nomos is pneumatikos. Does this pit those Words against the logos and the rhema? Make them tossable? Not of ONE Accord? OR ONE, Living and Active?

Jesus was abundantly clear on this count. Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4. On that basis alone not one jot or tittle can be tossed aside.

Whether these descriptors of Word are torah, edah, derek, mitsvah, dabar, piqquwd, emeth, owr, imrah, precepts, statutes, commandments, law, light, truth, testimonies, ways, bread it's ALL Gods Word by His Spirit. There is little point in trying to separate any of these from God, His Spirit, His Word and even less cause to toss aside.

It might seem to me that God Goes Hand in Hand with His Word and Spirit.

Disrespecting Gods Word is nothing new. Neither is diminishing it or eliminating it to irrelevance. There are believers right here at this board who chuck Gods Laws out the window, as if they are irrelevant. This particular practice is both common and rampant in the churches.

There are even more that chalk the Word up to past history, and chuck Word out the window on that basis. There are those who relegate Word only to those to whom it was spoken and chuck Word out the window on that basis, and on and on these various forms of Word elimination goes, which I MIGHT even view as KILLING The Word.

John 8:37
I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

 

[OzSpen]

When you start asking what Spirit is talking to me, that's baiting.

The Word speaks for itself.

I see no difference between the "rhema" of God and "The Word of God." Unless our theological methods are to slice God to pieces.

Are you going to claim the phema/rhema of God and the Logos of God are DIFFERENT? Divided? Not in "accord?" Working at odds? Logos is dead and gone, relegated to "LOGO PAST and DONE, no more applicable?" That the rhema lives/abides in us, but not the logos?

We know that the law is spiritual, Romans 7:14. The nomos is pneumatikos. Does this pit those Words against the logos and the rhema? Make them tossable? Not of ONE Accord? OR ONE, Living and Active?

Jesus was abundantly clear on this count. Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4. On that basis alone not one jot or tittle can be tossed aside.

Whether these descriptors of Word are torah, edah, derek, mitsvah, dabar, piqquwd, emeth, owr, imrah, precepts, statutes, commandments, law, light, truth, testimonies, ways, bread it's ALL Gods Word by His Spirit. There is little point in trying to separate any of these from God, His Spirit, His Word and even less cause to toss aside.

It might seem to me that God Goes Hand in Hand with His Word and Spirit.

Disrespecting Gods Word is nothing new. Neither is diminishing it or eliminating it to irrelevance. There are believers right here at this board who chuck Gods Laws out the window, as if they are irrelevant. This particular practice is both common and rampant in the churches.

There are even more that chalk the Word up to past history, and chuck Word out the window on that basis. There are those who relegate Word only to those to whom it was spoken and chuck Word out the window on that basis, and on and on these various forms of Word elimination goes, which I MIGHT even view as KILLING The Word.

John 8:37
I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Please explain to me the meaning of 'phema/rhema of God'.

 

[smaller]

Please explain to me the meaning of 'phema/rhema of God'.

Read all about Gods Word and Spirit in Romans 13:8-10. Perhaps you'll find an intimate LINK?

"love is the fulfilling of the law."

 

[Douglas Summers]

'The Gospel distortion: A reply to John Shelby Spong'.

I would call that, "contending for the faith". I'm surprised at prominent and high profile men, who claim to be Christians, and do great carnal works, but are self willed teachers. President Carter is known for his Homes for Humanity work and is a Sunday school teacher. But according to AOL news, he believes in EVOLUTION and SAME SEX MARRIAGES and says God would approve of it because it is love. It is no wonder the world is so chaotic with not believing in correct Scriptural doctrine, They have never met the Lord and therefor have no understanding Spiritual things. (1 Cor. 2:9-16)

 

[Douglas Summers]

I missed it, Doug, because I don't see John 6:41-51 (ESV) as a human being's part. Instead, it deals with God's part of drawing people to Christ.

Oz

I Agree, But the Scriptures were not in order, they were more for Scriptural reference to my post.

 

[OzSpen]

Read all about Gods Word and Spirit in Romans 13:8-10. Perhaps you'll find an intimate LINK?

"love is the fulfilling of the law."

It was you who used the language of 'phema/rhema of God'. I consider it courteous for you to tell me what you mean by this phrase as the theme of this thread is, '"The Bible tells me so" is wrong'.

Please tell me what is right, by giving me your correct meaning of 'phema/rhema of God'.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I would call that, "contending for the faith". I'm surprised at prominent and high profile men, who claim to be Christians, and do great carnal works, but are self willed teachers. President Carter is known for his Homes for Humanity work and is a Sunday school teacher. But according to AOL news, he believes in EVOLUTION and SAME SEX MARRIAGES and says God would approve of it because it is love. It is no wonder the world is so chaotic with not believing in correct Scriptural doctrine, They have never met the Lord and therefor have no understanding Spiritual things. (1 Cor. 2:9-16)

Yes, it was 'contending for the faith' when I wrote that article about Spong's ungodly beliefs. One can tell of the genuine nature of the Christian claim by examining how it compares with Scripture. Paul encouraged the Berean Christians to do that with Paul's preaching, according to Acts 17:11 (ESV).

I do not approve of the evolutionary worldview (macroevolution), but I do believe in microevolution (change within species) like this:

Do you believe in that kind of evolution? I do.

There are evangelical Christians with whom I have spoken who consider that God used the macroevolutionary process. I don't accept that view as it would require belief in this:

The Evolution Institute 2016. Why Darwin’s tree of life is a compelling icon of evolution (online), 11 February. Available at: https://evolution-institute.org/art...s-a-cognitively-compelling-icon-of-evolution/
(Accessed 28 September 2016).

Christians who accept this model are called theistic evolutionists. I don't find it consistent with Scripture and God's creation of human beings as demonstrated by Genesis 1-2 (ESV).

As for homosexual marriage, people who accept it seem to have a low view of the Scriptures and God's foundational understanding of marriage, which is heterosexual (confirmed by Gen 2:24 ESV; Matt 19:5 ESV).

In case you and others might be interested, I had 2 articles published in an Australian Christian magazine back in 1994. They involved my interview with a redeemed lesbian from the UK, Jeanette Howard. You can read the interview in One woman’s journey out of lesbianism: An interview with Jeanette Howard

How does this relate to the OP? If the Bible is not accepted as the God-breathed Scripture and interpreted according to context and grammatical principles, we get Jimmy Carter's kind of theology. I know he attends a Southern Baptist church in Georgia but it must have a weak statement of faith to be able to accommodate his kinds of beliefs. Or do they not challenge him as a tottery old man who was born on October 1, 1924, and is now aged 91?

Oz

 

[smaller]

It was you who used the language of 'phema/rhema of God'. I consider it courteous for you to tell me what you mean by this phrase as the theme of this thread is, '"The Bible tells me so" is wrong'.

Please tell me what is right, by giving me your correct meaning of 'phema/rhema of God'.

Oz

Oh, you mean you command me to put rhema in a definition box? For what purpose? I see no benefits in making a man constructed coffin for Gods Eternal matters. We can observe The Mystery, we can participate in and with The Mystery, but we are not His master and overlord.

"love is the fulfilling of the law." Now extend the observation to no beginning or ending and appreciate that God made us to observe and to participate in such.

Does that work for you Oz? EDITED

 

[OzSpen]

Oh, you mean you command me to put rhema in a definition box? For what purpose? I see no benefits in making a man constructed coffin for Gods Eternal matters. We can observe The Mystery, we can participate in and with The Mystery, but we are not His master and overlord.

"love is the fulfilling of the law." Now extend the observation to no beginning or ending and appreciate that God made us to observe and to participate in such.

Does that work for you Oz? Or would you prefer for me to grovel at your feet while you pummel with accusations of irrelevance?

I am commanding you to do nothing. You wrote something I did not understand, viz. 'phema/rhema of God'. I simply asked you to explain what you meant by that phrase.

If you don't want to explain it, that's fine. I'll move on.

Oz

 

[smaller]

I am commanding you to do nothing. You wrote something I did not understand,

Great. Let's leave it at that if you haven't benefited by the exchanges.

viz. 'phema/rhema of God'. I simply asked you to explain what you meant by that phrase.

If you don't want to explain it, that's fine. I'll move on.

Oz

I explained it just fine. You just didn't see that God is A Spirit, John 4:24, that God is Love, 1 John 4:8, and that LOVE is eternal. And you failed to see the absurdity of putting that in "a box" of our own making.

God has "expressed" His Own Self in Word, that we may come to know His Eternal Self, as a part of Him. This is "a working" of the Word, in us.

 

[OzSpen]

Great. Let's leave it at that if you haven't benefited by the exchanges.


I explained it just fine. You just didn't see that God is A Spirit, John 4:24, that God is Love, 1 John 4:8, and that LOVE is eternal. And you failed to see the absurdity of putting that in "a box" of our own making.

God has "expressed" His Own Self in Word, that we may come to know His Eternal Self, as a part of Him. This is "a working" of the Word, in us.

Bye, bye