The burden of proof

[Gary]

Ok so you christians say bible god has to be an invisible spirit who lives in the hearts of all his believers, you also say he intercedes on occasions testing mankind to weed out who is the tare's and the wheat. So in your mind bible god is careful not to reveal his presence or he would screw up his plain of salvation. But then when you are confronted by the burden of proof you are quick to point out the order and design of the universe as absolute proof of bible god.

But may I ask,

What specifics does the bible actually show and demonstrate, that's evident that it is bible god who designed all we see in our known universe.

You're looking for physical proof of God's existence, something physical that can't be denied. That physical evidence does exist but until you purge your heart of it's doubt, you'll never see it.

.

 

[Kathi]

Do I dare say I was a christian for many years or does my lack of faith now disqualify me from understanding your faith now.

Were you really a Christian?

 

[r3alink]

You're looking for physical proof of God's existence, something physical that can't be denied. That physical evidence does exist but until you purge your heart of it's doubt, you'll never see it.

.

No I'm not, I'm looking for coherent information from the bible that details and specifies the specific's we factually know about the universe.

 

[r3alink]

Were you really a Christian?

I believed I was at the time, don't know what other test I could do to verify my faith beyond having faith.

 

[Sinthesis]

But my conscience led me to rejecting all religious faiths, do you think thats the devil?

You haven't rejected all religious faiths, otherwise you would not still be asking questions. As for your OP, do you accept there must be a creator and just want to know if the bible can prove the Christian God is that creator?

 

[r3alink]

You haven't rejected all religious faiths, otherwise you would not still be asking questions. As for your OP, do you accept there must be a creator and just want to know if the bible can prove the Christian God is that creator?

Yes that would help, because without some comparison how can I know bible god is this universe's god.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Do I dare say I was a christian for many years or does my lack of faith now disqualify me from understanding your faith now.

If you ever truly knew Jesus Christ, you wouldn't be asking these questions. Your lack of discernment to the truth (thats not an insult btw) shows that the veil has not been removed from your eyes.

Its possible you were never really saved. Being saved is a day and night difference. And you continually improve over time.

Something you might find interesting is...in the early days of being a christian noob I did have some what if thoughts......But thats like the war of the flesh VS the spirit. Wanting to go back to the old man or go forward in the new man. But to get to that point means you had to forsake all and follow christ to start with. The truth is a very strange thing. (Edited, off topic. Obadiah.)

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Ponder this verse - 2 Corinthians 4:4 "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

 

[LovethroughDove]

Ok so you christians say bible god has to be an invisible spirit who lives in the hearts of all his believers

1 John 4:2-3 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

 

[gr8grace3]

Ok so you christians say bible god has to be an invisible spirit who lives in the hearts of all his believers, you also say he intercedes on occasions testing mankind to weed out who is the tare's and the wheat. So in your mind bible god is careful not to reveal his presence or he would screw up his plain of salvation. But then when you are confronted by the burden of proof you are quick to point out the order and design of the universe as absolute proof of bible god.

But may I ask,

What specifics does the bible actually show and demonstrate, that's evident that it is bible god who designed all we see in our known universe.

Other than faith and the Spirit revealing truth through the bible,Through time the Bible keeps proving itself and that God is the creator.

Just 2 examples through time and study we see God way ahead of us and we are catching up on certain things.

1. Just a few years ago in the whole scheme of things, science taught that the earth was flat. Anybody that said the earth was round was a whacko.
Isa 40:22~~New American Standard Bible
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. About 740-700 B.C.

2.Just a few years ago in the whole scheme of things, science told us that we only had a few thousand stars in the universe.

Gen 22:17~~New American Standard Bible
indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies. 1400/1600 B.C.

countless in other words.

Heb 11:12~~New International Version
And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

 

[r3alink]

If you ever truly knew Jesus Christ, you wouldn't be asking these questions. Your lack of discernment to the truth (thats not an insult btw) shows that the veil has not been removed from your eyes.

Its possible you were never really saved. Being saved is a day and night difference. And you continually improve over time.

Something you might find interesting is...in the early days of being a christian noob I did have some what if thoughts......But thats like the war of the flesh VS the spirit. Wanting to go back to the old man or go forward in the new man. But to get to that point means you had to forsake all and follow christ to start with. The truth is a very strange thing. (Edited, off topic. Obadiah.)

Can you explain to me why most if not all christians invalidate any faith all ex christians ever had. Is it because if they validated it it would give credence to there current lack of faith.

 

[r3alink]

Other than faith and the Spirit revealing truth through the bible,Through time the Bible keeps proving itself and that God is the creator.

Just 2 examples through time and study we see God way ahead of us and we are catching up on certain things.

1. Just a few years ago in the whole scheme of things, science taught that the earth was flat. Anybody that said the earth was round was a whacko.
Isa 40:22~~New American Standard Bible
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. About 740-700 B.C.

2.Just a few years ago in the whole scheme of things, science told us that we only had a few thousand stars in the universe.

Gen 22:17~~New American Standard Bible
indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies. 1400/1600 B.C.

countless in other words.

Heb 11:12~~New International Version
And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

Do you think those few things are enough to base a whole belief system on.

 

[Sinthesis]

The bible is not going to prove objectively that the Christian God is the God of the universe. There will always be wiggle room for one to accept a different explanation for any evidence, so that ultimately it will always come down to belief.

What the bible can do is show you how the Christian God exercises His sovereignty, which you may compare with your own observations to arrive at a picture of Him. Variously, God is revealed as an all mighty sovereign to be feared, a protective authority to be served, a loving friend to be imitated, even a guiding spirit to be followed. God is yielding, so that what you see of Him will often be influenced by what you are looking for. If you yield your expectations to Him, He will show you what you need to see.

Keep in mind that the bible is not really concerned with specifics so much as mindset, in that given a holy mindset one can arrive at truth no matter the specifics. With the wrong mindset one could be looking at Jesus Christ face to face and still never see God. While with the right mindset one can see evidence of God everywhere.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Can you explain to me why most if not all christians invalidate any faith all ex christians ever had. Is it because if they validated it it would give credence to there current lack of faith.

I'm confused. Its not my lack of faith that is in question is it?

Now, why do most christians if not all invalidate any faith all ex christians ever had? Because it just doesn't make sense honestly. Being born again is a very powerful experience. They try to relate their experience to one that has fell away and try to make sense of it.

All I know is this.....I originally accepted I was a sinner and Jesus died for me and he was lord and God raised him from death...I did this back in 2012...........At the time I come to God I was really hitting a brick wall with all the doom and gloom end of the world stuff. I was fatigued....frustrated. I really believed that in my heart....and like within a day or so its like someone reached down and lifted me up. That all at once I could see through the conspiracy stuff and no it wasnt the truth. I no longer felt this "strange/creepy" feeling I would get when I went to certain alternative news forums and sites. At this point its like I naturally started turning away from the world. But at this point I was extremely ignorant to bible knowledge. And I was still a bit confused about how I felt. I didnt know anything about the holy ghost or the old man and new man. This christian terminology was ignorant to me. In early 2013 I decided to read the KJV. I dunno why I thought I could read such a thick book. But somehow I could and I really wanted to. I longed for that truth more then anything in this world.

Reading the bible alone in a quiet room taught me about separation from the world. As I call it...world fasting. Putting away the movies/television to read the bible instead. Reading the whole KJV seemed like a serious undertaking but I wanted to know...I wanted the truth.

I feel reading the bible makes you a ton smarter (especially the old testament).....But that initial saving moment came when I humbled down and accepted I was a sinner...and believed the lord Jesus Christ died for me. The want to read the bible seems natural. Honestly I do get kinda burned out when I read it 10 hours straight these days. Bible reading is not something many do, and its definitely something a christian needs to do. When you read the bible? God talks to you. When you pray? you talk to God. When you witness? You talk for God

The bible is a love letter. Somedays when you are down and out and get "why am I doing this?" kinda feelings. Reach for the love letter and read. Continue your walk with God! Maybe you are just like the prodigal son? Then you need to come back to God's love.

You can read the bible so much that you can feel something start to happen like you are getting a sustenance from it like food or something. When you reach that point? You won't be coming in here and asking such doubtful questions. Mathew 4:4 "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

Try to memorize a bible verse everday or at least know the gist of a certain chapter and verse. Doing this builds righteousness in your brain. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. If all you know is the world then when you speak it shows. We have to renew our mind everyday and reprogram it with the word...Like I say till you reach that point that reading the bible is like taking medicine for your soul then you know without a doubt God is real!

Hope this helps.

 

[r3alink]

The bible is not going to prove objectively that the Christian God is the God of the universe. There will always be wiggle room for one to accept a different explanation for any evidence, so that ultimately it will always come down to belief.

What the bible can do is show you how the Christian God exercises His sovereignty, which you may compare with your own observations to arrive at a picture of Him. Variously, God is revealed as an all mighty sovereign to be feared, a protective authority to be served, a loving friend to be imitated, even a guiding spirit to be followed. God is yielding, so that what you see of Him will often be influenced by what you are looking for. If you yield your expectations to Him, He will show you what you need to see.

Keep in mind that the bible is not really concerned with specifics so much as mindset, in that given a holy mindset one can arrive at truth no matter the specifics. With the wrong mindset one could be looking at Jesus Christ face to face and still never see God. While with the right mindset one can see evidence of God everywhere.

A friend I must fear and serve, that's not a friendship that's a totalitarian relationship.

 

[r3alink]

I'm confused. Its not my lack of faith that is in question is it?

Now, why do most christians if not all invalidate any faith all ex christians ever had? Because it just doesn't make sense honestly. Being born again is a very powerful experience. They try to relate their experience to one that has fell away and try to make sense of it.

All I know is this.....I originally accepted I was a sinner and Jesus died for me and he was lord and God raised him from death...I did this back in 2012...........At the time I come to God I was really hitting a brick wall with all the doom and gloom end of the world stuff. I was fatigued....frustrated. I really believed that in my heart....and like within a day or so its like someone reached down and lifted me up. That all at once I could see through the conspiracy stuff and no it wasnt the truth. I no longer felt this "strange/creepy" feeling I would get when I went to certain alternative news forums and sites. At this point its like I naturally started turning away from the world. But at this point I was extremely ignorant to bible knowledge. And I was still a bit confused about how I felt. I didnt know anything about the holy ghost or the old man and new man. This christian terminology was ignorant to me. In early 2013 I decided to read the KJV. I dunno why I thought I could read such a thick book. But somehow I could and I really wanted to. I longed for that truth more then anything in this world.

Reading the bible alone in a quiet room taught me about separation from the world. As I call it...world fasting. Putting away the movies/television to read the bible instead. Reading the whole KJV seemed like a serious undertaking but I wanted to know...I wanted the truth.

I feel reading the bible makes you a ton smarter (especially the old testament).....But that initial saving moment came when I humbled down and accepted I was a sinner...and believed the lord Jesus Christ died for me. The want to read the bible seems natural. Honestly I do get kinda burned out when I read it 10 hours straight these days. Bible reading is not something many do, and its definitely something a christian needs to do. When you read the bible? God talks to you. When you pray? you talk to God. When you witness? You talk for God

The bible is a love letter. Somedays when you are down and out and get "why am I doing this?" kinda feelings. Reach for the love letter and read. Continue your walk with God! Maybe you are just like the prodigal son? Then you need to come back to God's love.

You can read the bible so much that you can feel something start to happen like you are getting a sustenance from it like food or something. When you reach that point? You won't be coming in here and asking such doubtful questions. Mathew 4:4 "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

Try to memorize a bible verse everday or at least know the gist of a certain chapter and verse. Doing this builds righteousness in your brain. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. If all you know is the world then when you speak it shows. We have to renew our mind everyday and reprogram it with the word...Like I say till you reach that point that reading the bible is like taking medicine for your soul then you know without a doubt God is real!

Hope this helps.

How do you define a legitimate irrational doubt compared to a rational one. They both feel the same.

 

[smaller]

A friend I must fear and serve, that's not a friendship that's a totalitarian relationship.

When people are bound to their own evil conscience that is the false conclusion they arrive at.

 

[r3alink]

When people are bound to their own evil conscience that is the false conclusion they arrive at.

Ok lets say I'm evil. Is friendship with god now to be feared any less or now to be served any less than I pointed out.

 

[Gary]

No I'm not, I'm looking for coherent information from the bible that details and specifies the specific's we factually know about the universe.

.

 

[smaller]

Ok lets say I'm evil. Is friendship with god now to be feared any less or now to be served any less than I pointed out.

All people are bound with an evil conscience. There is no escape from that fact in this present life.

Your again faulty conclusion is what you think you hear as the Gospel, that God will burn you alive if you don't bow down and serve Him.

Gods Intention is to move us away and apart from evil, it's works and ways and PROMISES a destruction to evil and it's workers, whom we ALL happen to be to one extent or another.

Our faith is to move us in the RIGHT direction, not the WRONG direction. Certainly no harm to doing good nor is God against any such.

As to the fate of evil, it's works and ways, we are promised an end to it. To that end, we believe and serve in faith by faith.

Where you see a tyrant, we see the only Power that can stop it and cease it, having been delivered into it ourselves to begin with, as your own conscience should show.

Caricatures with what you think the Christian Axioms are in these matters are only that. And quite entirely phony. Though I would not necessarily fault you in the much available criticism that can be employed. The matters do however run a little deeper than the surface values you seek to poke fun at.