The call of the Father.

[Watchman 2]

I am codependent so I worry a lot about people who don't get at least a chance to go to heaven if they are good. Sorry

All questions I'd love to discuss on another thread.

I'm focusing on the specific act of Faith that someone could fulfill, after they've been call by the Father, even though the haven't heard of Christ or the Gospel.

You mentioned " surrender". Do you understand that surrender is the act of Faith that saves?

Can you explain how that act of surrender is fulfilled?

 

[Susannah]

As for the act of surrender. I got down on my knees and prayed:

God, I offer myself to Thee-
To build with me and to do with me as Thou wilt.
Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will.
Take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness
to those I would help of Thy Power,
Thy Love, and Thy Way of life.
May I do Thy will always!

This was is 1982. I say this prayer daily as it guides my daily life. Not everybody turns their whole life over, but as I got older and lost most of my family I thought I might as well make myself useful.

 

[Watchman 2]

As for the act of surrender. I got down on my knees and prayed:

God, I offer myself to Thee-
To build with me
and to do with me as Thou wilt.
Relieve me of the bondage of self,
that I may better do Thy will.
Take away my difficulties,
that victory over them may bear witness
to those I would help of Thy Power,
Thy Love, and Thy Way of life.
May I do Thy will always!

3rd step prayer! Amen!

We renew this every day sometimes many times a day.
But how do we sustain the surrendered life?

 

[Susannah]

I use prayer and meditation to sustain my spiritual calling. I get directions to do this and do that. To write this and do that. I also do charity and when I teach it is to help people.

My reward is a personal and intimate relationship with Jesus and God through the Holy Spirit.

Here is my surrender to Christ . . .

The Awaited Suitor

My heart pines away; I sing the blues.
I ask now and then: Where are you?
Are you real? Are you there for me?
When will I see you? When shall it be?
I face the horizon; I take God’s hand.
In great expectation, I look over the land.
Nothing happens; oh woe is me.
What shall I do? When will it be?
With tears in my eyes, I look up and smile.
God cups my face, and after awhile
He softly speaks, and breaks the news:
"I am the one who was chosen for you."
"Can you love me, year after year,
As you would have loved him if he had appeared?"
My face grew pale, and my body shook.
I took his hand, too frightened to look.
Then I agreed to give it a try.
My suitor was here; he had finally arrived.

 

[Watchman 2]

As for the act of surrender. I got down on my knees and prayed:

God, I offer myself to Thee-
To build with me and to do with me as Thou wilt.
Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will.
Take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness
to those I would help of Thy Power,
Thy Love, and Thy Way of life.
May I do Thy will always!

This was is 1982. I say this prayer daily as it guides my daily life. Not everybody turns their whole life over, but as I got older and lost most of my family I thought I might as well make myself useful.

Let me ask a better question.

Saving Faith, is an act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence.

In regards to that person the Father calls, but has never heard of the name of Christ or His Gospel, " surrender" ( the act) is made based upon what Belief?

 

[Susannah]

If they do not know Christ they surrender to goodness or love. They intuitively know to love their neighbor and serve the poor. They are doing God's will guided by the Holy Spirit rather than the Bible.

 

[Susannah]

In my line of work I know so many good people doing God's love who were wounded by religion. So they think they have given up on Christ, but they end up doing his will as the scriptures outline.

 

[Watchman 2]

If they do not know Christ they surrender to goodness or love. They intuitively know to love their neighbor and serve the poor. They are doing God's will guided by the Holy Spirit rather than the Bible.

What about #25?

They surrender based on what belief?

Sustained by what?

 

[Susannah]

To try to answer your question as to what belief, I guess it would be the belief that God loves us and gives us more leeway that the Bible makes note of. The belief in Love. The belief in Goodness. The belief in serving God. God is so much more than can be put down on paper in a book. In my opinion . . .

 

[Susannah]

I have to go for now. It has been a pleasure discussing this with you. . .

 

[LovethroughDove]

If they do not know Christ they surrender to goodness or love. They intuitively know to love their neighbor and serve the poor. They are doing God's will guided by the Holy Spirit rather than the Bible.

Here is the thing....... We don't intuitively know how to love like God does. We are selfish and we are living in our flesh currently. Unless you can forgive as Christ does, give them the other cheek, lay down your life, love your enemy....you don't quite know the love or goodness asked of us.

There are 3 types of people in the world

Those who haven't heard the gospel or the law - They will be judged accordingly
Romans 2:12

Those who have heard the law - will be judged by the law Galatians 3:19

Those who have heard the gospel - you will be judged by if you have rejected Jesus
John 3:19-21 It is about rejecting the light that has come into the world and it tells why people do this

 

[WIP]

Why did Christ speak in parables?

So some would not accidentally hear, understand,and he would have to save them.

Are you saying that Christ does not want to save everyone and can you back that up with Scripture please?

 

[Watchman 2]

To try to answer your question as to what belief, I guess it would be the belief that God loves us and gives us more leeway that the Bible makes note of. The belief in Love. The belief in Goodness. The belief in serving God. God is so much more than can be put down on paper in a book. In my opinion . . .

Remember we're talking about someone who has been called by The Father, but doesn't know Christ or His Gospel. So in effect, this person doesn't know " God's Love" yet. This persons life has been interupted by an unknown call, that he had to turn to and acknowledge.

As the result of that call by the Father, he or she responds by surrendering their life to Him. The surrender is made based upon what Belief?

 

[Watchman 2]

Are you saying that Christ does not want to save everyone and can you back that up with Scripture please?

On another thread , at another time.

Let's focus on the topic here.

 

[for_his_glory]

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

In the beginning was the oral words of God spoken unto the prophets who were called of God and taught others as by the words of God He drew men unto him, but not everyone chose to listen to His calling. It's the same with Jesus as He spoke nothing that God did not give Him to speak orally, John 12:49-50.

Many are called, but few are chosen as they try to climb up another way by their own righteousness, that is only a filthy rag to God as they never enter by the door that is Christ Jesus, Matthew 22:14; John 10:1-5; 10:9-16.

Who God calls out from among His own that have come to God's salvation through Christ are apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers, Ephesians 4:10-16.

Those who do not know Christ are those who reject Him for if they knew Him that would also know the Father who sent Him and will have eternal life, but those who reject Christ will the wrath of God fall on them, John 3:36.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Susannah]

Remember we're talking about someone who has been called by The Father, but doesn't know Christ or His Gospel. So in effect, this person doesn't know " God's Love" yet.

My experience was different than this. I am sensitive so don't tell me it was not real or Biblical. I was called originally by God in 1982 through the Holy Spirit. I felt his love. I heeded the call. I surrendered. My life changed. I was full of energy. I had changed. Everyone commented on it. Christ was still a prophet in my mind at that time. I had doubts of his divinity. But I felt his love. I promise you.

After thirty five years of serving God by helping other agnostics with addiction, the Holy Spirit came to me again. "You have done your part to help the agnostics that I love but don't love Christ, and now I want you to come all the way home. Christ is more than a prophet. Christ is the son of God. He died on the cross in great pain. He was resurrected. Follow me.

I did follow Christ and that is when I found this board. My personal belief is that God loves everyone even before they find Christ. That is actually why I first opened up my heart to God. I could not believe he loved me despite my lack of faith. In some cases, he then chooses a few to go all the way with him to spread the good news of Christ and the Second Covenant.

 

[for_his_glory]

We were discussing this on another thread . . .

The Great Controversy

I am a Quaker (Society of Friends) and we have a doctrine of "universalism" that allows people who have not heard of Christ go to heaven by virtue of following the spirit of the scriptures without having read them. They are filled with the Holy Spirit and do his bidding. So the Bible is written on their hearts so to speak not in their brain.[

Do you believe in "The Gold Standard" and the "Emotional Freedom Techniques" that universalism teaches?

 

[Susannah]

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Some people read scripture or hear a pastor and they hear the word of God. Some of us are fortunate to hear a voice in their head which is the Holy Spirit talking to them. This was my experience and the experience of the Quakers.

When I was an agnostic the Holy Spirit only talked to me three times. In very short sentences he told me to call someone, get a different job, and to stop worrying. I obeyed all three commands and have written extensively about the ensuring miracles including a career as a professional writer.

Since I was told Christ was everything the Bible says he was, the Holy Spirit is more active in my life. I get daily directions to do this or that or to write this or that.

This is my story for better or worse.

 

[Watchman 2]

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

In the beginning was the oral words of God spoken unto the prophets who were called of God and taught others as by the words of God He drew men unto him, but not everyone chose to listen to His calling. It's the same with Jesus as He spoke nothing that God did not give Him to speak orally, John 12:49-50.

Many are called, but few are chosen as they try to climb up another way by their own righteousness, that is only a filthy rag to God as they never enter by the door that is Christ Jesus, Matthew 22:14; John 10:1-5; 10:9-16.

Who God calls out from among His own that have come to God's salvation through Christ are apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers, Ephesians 4:10-16.

Those who do not know Christ are those who reject Him for if they knew Him that would also know the Father who sent Him and will have eternal life, but those who reject Christ will the wrath of God fall on them, John 3:36.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So what would your answer be to the OPs question.

 

[Susannah]

Do you believe in "The Gold Standard" and the "Emotional Freedom Techniques" that universalism teaches?

Can you tell me what these are. Thanks.