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The Calling of the 144,000

Daniel 7:24
The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings.

The ten nations that arose from the ruins of Rome were:

Anglo-Saxons
Franks
Alemanni
Lombards
Suevi
Visigoths
Burgundians
Huruli
Vandals
Ostrogoths
 
In Zechariah, God is providing "flee" instructions for a group of Christians which will have survivored to Christ's advent.

Zechariah 14:3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake a]'>[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

The place is Mount Zion.....

Joel 2:32 32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

And the survivors are the 144,000.

Revelation 14 1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

This is the calling of the 144,000.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
 
This sentence suggest that not all of the survivors are called. Quote: "among the survivors whom the LORD calls." Some must remain in order for there to be a thousand year reign of Christ on earth also.
 
Hello mdo,

You stated: This sentence suggest that not all of the survivors are called. Quote: "among the survivors whom the LORD calls."

My response: As I understand it, not all that are called become survivors.

You stated: A great mutitude is also included with the 144,000.

My response: Yes, however, this great multitude is the resurrected saints. The 144K are the male (Christian) "survivors."

You stated: Some must remain in order for there to be a thousand year reign of Christ on earth also.

My response: The millennial reign of Christ will take place on the New earth. The "survivors" and the resurrected saints are those which will rule with Christ. The ones which Christ and the saints will rule over are those individuals which will attack Jerusalem (they will have the mark).

Zechariah 14: 16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
 
guysmith said:
Hello mdo,

You stated: You have done a good job in making your point, however, a great multitude is also included with that number.

My response: I believe that the great multitude is a description of those that take part in the first resurrection. Th 144K are the male Christians which never taste physical death.

You stated: And then, what about the survivors after the resurrection of the Elect; The Thousand Year Reign of Christ on earth?

My response: The only Christian survivors (those redeemed from the earth) will be the 144K.

Revelation 14:3......No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

However, there will be individuals that survive during the millennium which will have the mark of the beast.

Zechariah 14: 16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

These idividuals are those which will be ruled by Christ "with a rod of Iron."

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
Click to expand...

Guy, they will taste physical death.

Revelation 20 5-7

This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Second death is the death of the soul, physical death is the first death is the death of the flesh.
 
I would like to point out an error that the Seventh day Adventist believe, and that is there will be no people of God on earth during the reign of Christ. Scripture does not support that assumption. Another error is that Michael is Yahshua. If you have studied the Book of Enoch and the Dead Sea Scrolls, then you would know from the wording that Michael is not an ancient being, but born in the last days. :yes
 
mdo757 said:
I would like to point out an error that the Seventh day Adventist believe, and that is there will be no people of God on earth during the reign of Christ. Scripture does not support that assumption. Another error is that Michael is Yahshua. If you have studied the Book of Enoch and the Dead Sea Scrolls, then you would know from the wording that Michael is not an ancient being, but born in the last days. :yes
Click to expand...

Like Joshua, son of Joseph was an end time Christ-like figure on earth, so too Micheal (the one who is like God) is an end time Christ-like figure in Heaven.

Michael was around before the foundation of the world, you can see him in the book of Daniel.
 
MMarc said:
Like Joshua, son of Joseph was an end time Christ-like figure on earth, so too Micheal (the one who is like God) is an end time Christ-like figure in Heaven.

Michael was around before the foundation of the world, you can see him in the book of Daniel.
Click to expand...
That is not correct. The translations have been altered. Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. (A future Christian era event.)( 21 days is parabolic for 21st century.)

Daniel 10:21
but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince (leader or minister.)

Daniel 12:1
"At that time Michael, the great prince (leader or minister) who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

Jude 1:9 Verse 9 is an insertion into Jude to give credibility to the Gnostic writing called "The Assumption of Moses."
But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Revelation 12:7 Earth is also called a heaven.
And there was war in heaven. Michael and his messengers fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his messengers fought back.
 
The 144,000 will be found on Mount Zion at Christ's advent and represent the male count.

Revelation 14:1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

The females are described as the daughters of Zion.

Isaiah 4: 2 In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. 3 Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy, all who are recorded among the living in Jerusalem. 4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire. 5 Then the LORD will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over all the glory will be a canopy. 6 It will be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, and a refuge and hiding place from the storm and rain.

The is the calling of the 144,000.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
 
mdo757 said:
MMarc said:
Like Joshua, son of Joseph was an end time Christ-like figure on earth, so too Micheal (the one who is like God) is an end time Christ-like figure in Heaven.

Michael was around before the foundation of the world, you can see him in the book of Daniel.
Click to expand...
That is not correct. The translations have been altered. Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. (A future Christian era event.)( 21 days is parabolic for 21st century.)

Daniel 10:21
but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince (leader or minister.)

Daniel 12:1
"At that time Michael, the great prince (leader or minister) who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

Jude 1:9 Verse 9 is an insertion into Jude to give credibility to the Gnostic writing called "The Assumption of Moses."
But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Revelation 12:7 Earth is also called a heaven.
And there was war in heaven. Michael and his messengers fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his messengers fought back.
Click to expand...

The 21 "days" also refer to 3 weeks. It takes 3 prophetic weeks to fulfill the fall feasts and they are fulfilled in Heaven. Jesus fulfilled the physical part on earth, but like Pentecost the fall feasts are fulfilled in the Spirit. And yourself quote the Word of God in Jude, "when he was disputing" so we know this has occured as Michael showed up during the battle with the prince of Persia, who represents the dragon.

They fought over the body of Moises represents fighting over the remnant, like today Michael and the other angels fight for the body of Christ.

And Guy,
I believe Mount Zion to be the mountain of God, a spiritual mountain. Since no flesh can live a thousand years yet, until the end of the day of the Lord as death and hades is cast into the lake of fire.
 
MMarc said:
The 21 "days" also refer to 3 weeks. It takes 3 prophetic weeks to fulfill the fall feasts and they are fulfilled in Heaven. Jesus fulfilled the physical part on earth, but like Pentecost the fall feasts are fulfilled in the Spirit. And yourself quote the Word of God in Jude, "when he was disputing" so we know this has occured as Michael showed up during the battle with the prince of Persia, who represents the dragon.

They fought over the body of Moises represents fighting over the remnant, like today Michael and the other angels fight for the body of Christ.

And Guy,
I believe Mount Zion to be the mountain of God, a spiritual mountain. Since no flesh can live a thousand years yet, until the end of the day of the Lord as death and hades is cast into the lake of fire.
Click to expand...
The Prince of Persia is Iran, Christ, Christianity has been detained there (prevented from being preached.) The messenger speaking about Michael in the future is Yahshua.
 
Psalm 74:2
Remember the people you purchased of old, the tribe of your inheritance, whom you redeemed— Mount Zion, where you dwelt.


This is the calling of the 144,000.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
 
guysmith said:
The 144,000 will be found on Mount Zion at Christ's advent and represent the male count.

Revelation 14:1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

The females are described as the daughters of Zion.

...

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
Click to expand...

Actually bro, the "daughters of Zion" expression was used for all of God's people in OT Scripture. The metaphors God gives in Isaiah 3 is about Israel when they were in rebellion against Him, following the ways of the pagan nations around them. Our Lord Jesus revealed there is no marriage in heaven, in the resurrection they are as the angels of God in heaven (Matt.22:30).
 
mdo757 said:
The Prince of Persia is Iran, Christ, Christianity has been detained there (prevented from being preached.) The messenger speaking about Michael in the future is Yahshua.
Click to expand...


That sounds like Jehovah Witness teaching. Our Lord Jesus, Yahshu'a, is not Michael the archangel. If He were, then He would not be God The Son, and our sins would be unforgiven, for the angels were created, and no created being can save us. The idea that Christ is Michael the archangel is a Russel teaching who began the JW movement.
 
veteran said:
mdo757 said:
The Prince of Persia is Iran, Christ, Christianity has been detained there (prevented from being preached.) The messenger speaking about Michael in the future is Yahshua.
Click to expand...


That sounds like Jehovah Witness teaching. Our Lord Jesus, Yahshua, is not Michael the archangel. If He were, then He would not be God The Son, and our sins would be unforgiven, for the angels were created, and no created being can save us. The idea that Christ is Michael the archangel is a Russel teaching who began the JW movement.
Click to expand...
It is definitely not JW or a SDA teaching. You guys say the strangest things to me. I would like everyone to give more careful thought before you answer me. Jesus=Joshua=Yahshua=Angel of the Lord= Messenger of Yahwah=Peniel or Phanuel. The Dead Sea Scrolls and The Book of Enoch say Michael is a flesh and blood man who lives in the last days. The bible also affirms that. When studying the bible ask yourselves, is it past, present, or future; is it literal, or is it parabolic? And like I said before, Jude 1:9 is an insertion and does not belong.
 
Also, another important question would be; is it a "translation," or is it an "interpretation?" It is also helpful to do a word associations when doing a study of scriptures. :study :twocents
 
Luk 21:20 "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you will know that it will soon be destroyed.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

OK, that happened already.

Sealed Firstfruits before the wrath of God on the Jews

Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Firstfruits i.e. the first of something

Rom 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Co 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

The Seal

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

And after the sealing of the Jews with the Holy Spirit, the wrath of God on the Jews who weren't

Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth (Land), and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city (Jerusalem), and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Jews were sealed with the Holy Spirit, then the wrath of God (destruction of Jerusalem). All done, 1st century, just like Jesus said.

Destruction of Jerusalem according to Jospehus (1st century eyewitness, Jewish historian)

http://www.bible.ca/pre-flavius-josephu ... filled.htm


Modern day groups that believe they are the 144,000

Jehovah's Witnesses distinctly believe that only 144,000 people will be raised to heaven,
The Christian Skoptsy sect in Russia believed that the Messiah would come when the Skoptsy numbered 144,000
The Church Universal and Triumphant teaches that Sanat Kummara and the Lords of the Flame also brought 144,000 souls with them from Venus.
The new age religion called Raëlism also states that there are 144,000 chosen people to continue humanity in case of an upcoming disaster.[16]
The Church of the Subgenius believes that somewhere between 144 000 and 144 people will be taken with the Xists aboard the pleasure saucers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/144000_(number)
 
There is one other thing I forgot to mention. Some prophecies will repeat themselves. It sounds more difficult than what it is. Scriptural interpretation is a very rare gift of God, and in requires a spirit of discernment beyond most all persons. But that does not mean that people can not discover what scripture truly says. It's just a very careful balancing act.
 
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