Bible Study The Case for the Pre Wrath Rapture

[Judy]

I found this to be a very good study of endtime events. It is my prayer that we all would be like the bereans and search the scriptures with an open heart seeking the truth. Pre-wrath happens to be the position I hold on endtime events.
It's long so I will post a little each day. If you have any questions I would ask that you hold those until the end and then we can discuss them. Because I would not want to lose the flow of this study.


The Case for the Pre Wrath Rapture

http://members.aol.com/chursey/prewrath.htm

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Ed. Note: This study was graciously submitted by Kenneth W. Eckerty, a music minister, Sunday School teacher, businessman, and strong brother in the Lord for many years. As in the case of many of the best teachings that we are seeing in these days, Ken is not a person that you would expect to generate a work such as this, as his background is not in traditional theology. For most purposes, Ken could be considered a "layman." Yet, the Lord has led him to produce what I can only call the "definitive" study on the PreWrath rapture. Yes, this document is long and detailed. Yes, it is DEFINITELY worth the time.


I. Introduction


A. Why am I doing this study?
The Lord has led me to study the scriptures concerning the timing of the rapture of the church.
And I have to confess, after 17 years of holding to the pre-tribulational rapture, I was wrong.

B. Why is this important?
Some of you may hold to the Pan-Tribulation viewpoint (the view that states it will all pan out in the end).
So why is this important? I believe there are two main reasons.
Those who love God's word want to know what it says (Rev 1:3)
And if the Church is going to see Great Tribulation, then she must be prepared. American Christians are counting on the "Great Escape".

C. Study but be not divisive.
This will be an indepth Bible study of end time events. In no way am I saying I have all the answers, and I may not convince you whole-heartedly that I am right. But if you will come away from this saying, "I think Ken may be right", then I have done my job.
This is not going to be a exegetical study of the book of Revelation. There are a lot of metaphors and symbols that are used in Rev that, to be honest with you, I don't understand all of it. We are not going to deal with the chronology of the judgments of God. We are simply going to deal with the chronology of the Tribulation period, only so far as to how it relates to the timing of the return of Christ for us, his church.
This is not going to be a fun study. I am not going to tickle your ears. That is not my intention. My intention is to show you what I strongly believe the Bible teaches concerning Christ's return, and exhort you to be prepared and live holy.
Word of comfort: I am not a part of a cult.
Acts 17:11, prove me as the Bereans.
Final word in terms of my introduction: This is not to be a divisive issue.

II. The Views
Let's look at the 3 rapture views that are considered the mainstream views today. I am assuming everyone knows what the rapture is? Here is a chart which outlines these views:

A. Pre-Tribulational Rapturism
This is by far, the most common viewpoint in America today. It's roots can be traced back to the Plymouth Brethren in 1830, although it did not really become prevalent in America until the early 1900's. Pre-trib teaches this:
The final 7 year period of the world is called the tribulation.
The last 3.5 years are called the Great Tribulation.
The entire 7 year period is considered the wrath of God or the Day of the Lord.
Since the church is not destined for God's wrath, then the church is raptured prior to the 7 year period.
The rapture is considered to be an "any moment" event.

B. Mid-Tribulation Rapturism
This view is even more recent than pre-trib, becoming popular in 1941. This view believes:
The final 7 year period of the world is called the tribulation.
The last 3.5 years are called the Great Tribulation.
The last 3.5 years are considered the wrath of God or the Day of the Lord.
Since the church is not destined for God's wrath, then the church is raptured at the mid-way point.

C. Post-Tribulation Rapturism
Post-trib was by far the most popular opinion during the time of the reformation, but cannot be traced to a specific starting point. There are alot of variations on this view but in its classic sense post-tribbers believe:
The church must endure the entire 7 year period, to be raptured at the end of the tribulation.
God will protect his children through His wrath.
I've tried to explain these views as simply as I could. While there are variations of each of these views, as a whole this is basically what each believes. Each of these uses scripture to support and build its case, but each has its particular problems.

III. The Problem


A. The Three Views
For the sake of time, I am going to lump Pre-trib and Mid-trib together since both believe the church will not see the wrath of anti-christ. So as we study this issue, when I say pre-trib, I include the mid-trib point of view. I basically saw problems with pre-trib and post-trib.
For Pre-trib it was simple: Pre-tribbers believe that the wrath of God (The Day of the Lord) begins at the beginning of the 7 year period. But I saw convincing evidence that the wrath of God begins inside the tribulation, not before it.

My problem with Post-trib was that as a whole, post-tribbers believe the church will go through the wrath of God. But I saw clear evidence that the church was not destined to go through the wrath of God.

I saw these two problems and I began to question my pre-trib convictions. So I began a 5 month study to determine the truth. What I found was, to me, so clear it was almost frightening. I never had firm convictions on Pre-trib, but I always thought that it had the most evidence. I began to see that it had no solid biblical evidence whatsoever, and what scripture was used to support the view was very weak and inferred things that the Bible did not say.

John Walvoord (Dallas President), a pre-tribber, stated that Pre-Tribulation Rapturism cannot be proven explicitly from the scriptures. And I found him to be absolutely correct.


B. Can I agree?
Is there anything I can agree with my brothers concerning end-time events. Yes, and here they are:

Jesus is coming again, and soon!
There will be a literal, future 7 year period called Daniel's 70th week.
During this period there will be great trouble and persecution for both the elect and Israel initiated by Satan through the anti-christ.
God's judgment will be poured out upon mankind for sin.
There will be a literal, future 1000 year reign of Christ.

The main thing I disagree with is when the Lord Jesus will return for His Bride (the rapture). Again, I point out that the timing of the rapture is a non-divisive issue and we must have tolerance in respect for differing viewpoints. We can have strong personal convictions on biblical issues (I certainly do), but we can still have fellowship with one another on non-critical issues.

So with the problems that I saw, the next question was, can we know the exact timing of the rapture in relation to end time events? And I believe the answer is YES!!

IV. The Solution: Pre-Wrath Rapturism
I believe what the Bible clearly teaches is what has been called the Pre-Wrath rapture of the church. It is based on a literal, common sense interpretation of the Bible. This view believes:

The Day of the Lord is called the wrath of God.
The Day of the Lord starts sometime in the second half of the 7 year period.
Since the Church is not destined for God's wrath, the Rapture of the Church occurs immediately prior to the Day of the Lord.
The Pre-Wrath position is not a new position of the Church. The only thing that is new is the name. The view that the church would see antichrist and be removed prior to God's judgment, was without question, the view of the early church fathers (I will give you quotes at the end of this study to prove that).

As we go through this study, we will build, what I believe, is an indestructible case for Pre-Wrath rapturism. We are going to start with basic definitions which are essential for us to understand, and then we will look at specific texts which speak of the chronology of end-time events. And finally, we will finish up with specific arguments that Pre-tribbers use to build their case. It will be a very methodical and somewhat tedious approach, but when we are done, if you can't say I'm right, at least I hope you'll say that this view is credible and should be taken as a distinct possibility.

As we move into the biblical evidence, I will bombard you with many terms (some of which may be new to you). We will look at many passages of scripture in a short period of time. Even though we will cover alot of material--right from the start, I want to give you the key question that will unlock the door as to which rapture view is correct. If you are sincere about learning the truth, and you can answer this question, then the rest will fall in line perfectly. That question is very simple: When does the Day of the Lord begin? Mark that down. When does the Day of the Lord begin? Answer that question, and the pieces of this puzzle fit together perfectly. Now let's move into our study.

 

[Judy]

V. Definitions


A. Methodology of Biblical Interpretation
To start with, we must understand the proper way to interpret the scriptures. Misinterpretation can be very dangerous. I believe that the way God has intended us to interpret the Bible is using the literal interpretation method. Very simply put, the Bible is to be taken literal when the text makes sense literally. Lemme give you a catchy phrase to remember: when the plain sense makes sense, you have the right sense. God did not give us his word to be confused. We are the ones who make it that way. Let me give you 3 ways that we interpret scripture:

• [1.]The Meaning of the Original Language Sometimes this is critical. The New Testament was written in Greek, and therefore to understand a passage, we must understand what the original intent was. But I will let you know right now, I am not going to twist the Greek to my advantage. There are only a few instances where we will need to go to the original language for fuller meaning.

• [2.]Context of the Passage We dare not take a scripture out of context to use it to our advantage. You will see that in several cases, that's exactly what Pre-tribbers do.

• [3.]Comparison with other Passages in the Bible Sometimes the original language and the context of the passage are not enough. We must go to other passages in the Bible that speak on the same subject, and then interpret them in the light of the whole Bible.

These are very simple rules of interpretation that, if applied correctly, will prevent us from teaching something that the Bible does not say. There are things in the Bible which should not be taken literally (EX: Beast with 10 heads), and with those instances we should use other methods of interpretation. But in the passages we are going to look at, I believe these passages require the literal, common sense method of interpretation. REMEMBER: When the plain sense makes sense, you have the right sense.




B. Dispensationalism
This term is not found in the Bible. Nevertheless, it describes a systematic theology that is biblically sound. I am a dispensationalist and so are pre-tribbers. But one of the reasons pre-tribulation rapturism is strongly supported today by men such as Charles Ryrie, John Walvoord, John MacAuthur, C.I. Scofield, and Dwight Pentecost is because of their strong belief in dispensationalism.
Dispensationalism is simply this: God has a distinct program for both the Church and Israel. God turned his attention away from the Jews after the death of Christ, and turned his attention to the Church. At some specific point in the future, God will again turn to Israel and fulfill all the promises he made to her.

Now, I whole-heartedly agree with this. I believe that God literally made promises to Israel that he will literally fulfill. We read over and over in the Old Testament hundreds of promises God made to Abraham, David, and all the prophets regarding the Kingdom.

The opposite view of dispensationalism is called dominion or covenant theology. This view basically states that since Israel rejected her messiah, all the promises that were intended for Israel are now fulfilled in the Church. The Church is now spiritual Israel.

Now, my purpose is not to defend dispensationalism (although that would be quite easy to do). But understanding it will help us to understand why the pre-trib rapture is so adamantly held on to--despite no concrete biblical evidence.

For example, one of the defenses for pre-trib rapturism goes something like this:

• "The Church did not exist in the Old Testament because God was dealing with Israel. So since the church was not around in the O.T., the church cannot be in the tribulation period (which is called the time of Jacob's trouble) because it is the time when God will turn his attention back to the nation of Israel."

This is a belief without any biblical support. It sounds good from a common sense standpoint, but again there are absolutely no scriptures that say that. It is a perfect example of basing a belief on what I will call inference (Websters defines inference as guessing).
For now, that's all we will say about dispensationalism. We will discuss it later in our study.




C. Daniel's 70th week
This is an area that is critical to everything else in relation to end-time events. It is what I will call the backbone of prophecy. This scripture is important in many ways not only because it tells us what's going to happen in the future, but it re-enforces the importance of the literal method of interpretation. Let me show you how.

• Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

• Who are thy people? Israel[/*:m:b947a]

• What is the Holy City? Jerusalem[/*:m:b947a]

So as we read this, there are six things in view:

• Finish the transgression [/*:m:b947a]

• Make an end for sins [/*:m:b947a]

• Make reconciliation for iniquity[/*:m:b947a]

• Bring in everlasting righteousness[/*:m:b947a]

• Seal up the vision and prophecy [/*:m:b947a]

• And to anoint the most Holy[/*:m:b947a]

In Judaism, seven is a very important number. And in this instance, the 70 weeks referred to is 70 weeks of years. Now if you use the multiple of 7, how many years do you have? (490) So what God is saying here is that there are 490 years of history for God to accomplish 6 things for Israel.

So when does this 70 week period begin? Let's read verse 25.

• Daniel 9:25: "Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

• 7 weeks = 49 years[/*:m:b947a]

• 3 score & 2 weeks = 62 weeks[/*:m:b947a]

• So how many weeks is that? 69 weeks![/*:m:b947a]

Now when does it begin? It begins from the going forth of the commandment to rebuild the temple (Nehemiah 2:5-8). We know from history that that was in 445 B.C. From that point, you would count 69 weeks or 483 years. By the way, Sir Robert Anderson took the date, March 14, 445 B.C., took into account the Jewish calender, and added the exact amount of days in the prophecy, and came to the date April 6, 32 AD. And according to Sir Robert Anderson, who has done most of the historical work on this, that is the very day Jesus rode in Jerusalem and announced himself as King. So what's the significance of this?

• Well, number one, God is right on the dime. The Bible accurately predicted when the messiah would come, to the very day.[/*:m:b947a]

• And number two, this verse proves the literal method of interpretation. Some have tried to spiritualize this passage, but I believe it is meant to be taken very literally.[/*:m:b947a]

So, we still have one week left, don't we? Let's read verse 26-27:

• Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
  Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

• Now, when did the people of the prince destroy the city and the temple (verse 26)? (70 AD)[/*:m:b947a]

• Now, when was messiah cut off? (32 AD, approx.)[/*:m:b947a]

• OK, now if the 69th week ended approx. 32 AD, when should the 70th week have occurred (if it was sequential without any gap)? (37 AD)[/*:m:b947a]

Now, again, when was the temple destroyed?

According to this text in Daniel, the destruction of the city and the temple must occur before the 70th week. So, what does that mean? It means that the 70th week cannot be sequential but separate from the 1st 69 weeks.

So, the 70th week is a period of 7 years sometime in the future when God will deal with the nation of Israel and accomplish those six things mentioned in verse 24. Most conservative, pre-millennial believers agree.

And thus we have what the Bible calls Daniel's 70th week. It is also what Bible scholars have called the tribulation period. We have not yet entered this period. It is still future.

I am in complete agreement with pre-tribbers on certain aspects of this 7 year period. As I said earlier, I agree that it is a literal 7 year period based on Daniel 9. I also believe it is still future.

But there is one small disagreement that I have with the Pre-Tribbers on this 7 year period. They often refer to this period as the Tribulation period. The Bible never calls it that. (Scofield Bible, page 1359) Whenever the Bible uses the term in a clear prophetic way, tribulation always refers to the middle of the 7 year period, called the Great Tribulation (we'll look closer at this in a bit).

So you may ask what's the difference if you call it the 70th week of Daniel or the Tribulation? Isn't this just semantics?

If this period of time is inappropriately given the title the Tribulation Period, then it is just one step away from calling the entire period the wrath of God, which is exactly what pre-tribbers have done. And the next progression is to say, well, because the church is not destined for wrath, then the rapture must occur before the 7 year period. Let's be very careful not to use terms that are unbiblical. The Bible calls it the 70th week of Daniel, and that's how I will use it. We will discuss more of this later.

Now, let's discuss what will occur in this last 7 year period according to the book of Daniel.

• Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

A couple of very important things are said to occur according to this verse.

• [1.]Who is the pronoun he referring to? (anti-christ--scholars universally agree). OK, so what will the anti-christ do? (confirm a covenant for one week--some sort of 7 year treaty)

• [2.]What will he do in the middle of the week? (cause the sacrifice to cease)

Apparently, the anti-christ will confirm some sort of pact with Israel and allow them to perform sacrifices in the temple. But in the middle of that pact, he will cause the sacrifice to cease, and commit blasphemy by demanding worship. This is what Jesus calls the abomination of desolation (Matt 24:15). And this event, without a doubt occurs in the middle of Daniel's 70th week.

We'll talk alot more about Daniel's 70th week event throughout our study.

 

[Judy]

D. Matthew 24:3: Sign, Coming, End of Age

• Matthew 24:3 "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

I want to highlight 4 words here in this verse: Sign, Coming, End, Age.

In my opinion, Matt 24 is the single most important passage concerning end-time events. It is called the Olivet discourse. Anyone know why it's called that? (Mount of Olives--lots of Olive trees)

The disciples are asking Jesus two questions: 1) When shall these things be, and 2) What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?

Let's look at the first word, sign.

1) "Sign":

Simply stated, God posted signs at critical forks in the road of history to say to men and women of faith, this is the way--walk in it. Then along with the sign, to authenticate the message, there would be the miraculous. The idea was to say, this is the genuine article. Here's the direction, here's the message, here's the sign, now I'm authenticating it with a miracle or wonder. For example:

• Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

All the way back in the book of Isaiah, King Ahaz was ruling over the southern kingdom of Judah. He was of the royal line of David, but was a wicked man. He had received word that the 10 northern tribes had formed a coalition with Syria, and that they were coming down South to dethrone him. He was very concerned and Isaiah comes to the king and says: You do not have to worry about that. This coalition will not prosper.
And then Isaiah says to Ahaz, God has said, ask of me a sign in the heavens above or the earth beneath. The idea was to ask something tough. Ask something supernatural. Ask something miraculous. Do you know what Ahaz's response was? Let's look at Is 7:11-12:.

• Isaiah 7:11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
  Isaiah 7:12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD.

He refused to ask for a sign. So God says: Oh hear now, house of David, I'll give you a sign. And the idea is "I'll give you a sign, a wonder or a miracle". "I'll give you a sign so you'll know when the righteous King is in your midst". And here is that sign:

• Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

This is a messianic prophecy concerning the first coming of Christ. In other words, you will know when the everlasting King is in your midst when you see this miraculous sign.

So let me ask you a question: What was the miraculous sign in verse 14? (the virgin birth!) And it was fulfilled hundreds of years later in that little manger in Bethlehem.

Remember, there was another sign given to the religious leaders. Remember what it was?

• Matt 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
  Matt 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
  Matt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

So there was a sign to verify the first coming of Christ.

So we now come to Matt 24, and the disciples inquire of Jesus asking him, what shall be the sign of thy coming? So you must understand, that whatever this sign is, it's miraculous and supernatural. And the Jews understood this way of thinking. Remember what Paul said: "The Jews require a sign" (1 Cor 1:22). And so the Jews were always asking for signs, and the disciples were no different.

One final note before we move on: notice in Matthew 24:3, the disciples ask, what is the sign of your coming? It is in the singular tense, not plural. Remember that.

Now, let's talk about this word "coming"

2) "Coming": What will be the sign of your coming?

The word coming that is used in verse 3 is the Greek word "parousia".

Now Vines says of this word: "The word parousia means arrival and consequent presence with". And by the way, Dr. John MacAuthur, a pre-tribber agrees whole-heartedly with this interpretation. It is very clear in the Greek.

It is a process, not merely a momentary appearance. I cannot underscore that too strongly.

The word coming is not a synonym for here. Coming means a process. (Ex: I call my mom and tell her I am coming. I make a plane reservation, I pack my bags, I have my mail stopped, I drive to the airport, etc. There are many things I do in relation to my one coming.)

The word parousia indicates an arrival and presence. It could have a number of events associated with it. (Ex: What did the first coming of Christ involve?)

Parousia carries with it the idea of a process, not an instantaneous thing of coming and going.

So what will be connected with the 2nd coming of Christ? The first thing will be the rapture of the church. Then he will judge the nations of the world, the anti-christ, and the false prophet. He will defeat Satan. He will defeat the armies of the world at Armageddon. Then he will return physically to the earth and set up his kingdom. All these are events of his second coming, just like his first coming. It will be a series of events, a process.

• Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

The word presence used here is the word parousia. And here it speaks of Paul not just arriving, but being present with these believers.
This is of course is especially interesting in the light of the disciples question to Jesus, what will be the sign of your coming, or presence?

Now, a few more things about this word parousia or coming.

• Parousia always always is in the singular. Very important. It never speaks of comings, but one singular coming.[/*:m:11f99]

• It also always comes with a definite article or a personal pronoun. That is: the coming, thy coming, or his coming.[/*:m:11f99]

• Always in the singular, and always with a personal pronoun.[/*:m:11f99]

• Not once does the Bible speak of two comings. Not even by a hint or implication. It never does.[/*:m:11f99]

• It can be demonstrated that the parousia of Christ occurs after the middle of the 70th week.[/*:m:11f99]

• Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

This is referring to the abomination of desolation during the 70th week of Daniel. When did we say this occurred (in the middle!)?

• Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

This verse specifically refers to the coming or parousia of the Lord. In context, for arguments sake now, this occurs sometime after the middle of the 70th week. And that coming is a process that takes a period of time, but is said to occur after the middle of the 70th week (We'll tell you how long later).

For pre-tribulation rapturism to be correct, you must have an earlier parousia or coming for the rapture of the church. It means you must have two distinct comings, not one over a period of time. Remember now, in context, Jesus answers the disciples question, by telling them that his coming would be after the abomination in the temple. And the Bible always speaks of one coming and in the singular. It never, never, never refers to two comings. Nowhere in the Bible does it ever speak of a secret coming of the Lord. It says it will be like lightening, it says we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye, but nowhere does it say it will be in secret.

Now let's look at this word world or age found also in Matt 24:3.

3) "Age"

In Matt 24:3, the KJV uses the word "world" instead of the word "age". The word "world" is a bad translation. Actually it is better translated "age". It is not speaking of the cosmos, which is the world, but it is speaking of the aion, which is the age. In other words, "what will be the sign of your coming, and the consummation of the age (not the end of the world, as if the world terminates).

All throughout the O.T., the prophets spoke of two ages: one that is all bad because of sin, and the glorious age which was to follow.

So the disciples asked the question with the understanding that there was to be another age in connection with his coming. In other words, when messiah came, he would then usher in the golden age where they would have everlasting peace.

4) "End"

• Matt 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
  Matt 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
  Matt 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];
  Matt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
  Matt 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
  Matt 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
  Matt 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
  Matt 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
  
  Matt 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
  Matt 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
  Matt 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
  Matt 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

In a very clear way, our Lord here teaches that the harvest will occur at the end of the age. Look at verse 39. According to this verse, the harvest is the end of the age. Now what is the harvest? Look at verse 49. It is clear from this passage that the end of the age is spoken of as the time when the great harvest will take place, a time when the wicked will be separated from the righteous. That will be the end of the age. And what about this golden age? Read verse 43. After this present age that is marred by sin, there will be a golden age when the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their father.

• Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
  Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
  Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Very simply Jesus is saying that he will be with you to the end of the age. Who is he speaking to? His Jewish disciples.

• Matt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
  Matt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
  Matt 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

What end is Jesus referring to here? (the end of the age--they just asked Jesus that in verse 3). The disciples asked Jesus for a sign as to when the end of the age would come. And Jesus proceeds to give them signs, and says but the end of the age is not yet come. The great harvest has not taken place yet!

Now, most pre-tribulation rapturists, Dwight Pentecost, John Walvoord, C.I. Scofield, Charles Ryrie to name a few, believe that the 70th week of Daniel begins in verse 4. Again, Jesus told his disciples in Matt 28 that he would be with them to the end of the age, and in Matt 13, Jesus taught that the separation of the righteous from the unrighteous will be at the end of the age.

And then in Matthew 24, starting in verse 4, Jesus begins to describe events which historic pre-tribulation rapturism say are within the 70th week of Daniel. And the Lord says in verse 6 that the end of the age is not yet.

In other words, the church is going to be around till the end of the age. It's very, very clear. And by the way, this is a very difficult passage for pre-tribbers. For if Jesus was truly talking to his disciples as representatives of the church, then by their own admission, the church must go through the tribulation. So they have to come up with an explanation that removes the church prior to verse 4. Do you know how they do it? They say that Matthew 24 refers to unsaved Israel, not the church.

Now, if you are convinced that Jesus was talking about unsaved Israel in Matt 24, and not the church, then you have to come up with another coming, a secret coming before the 70th week of Daniel, to justify your pre-trib position. There is no other way.

But if Jesus was talking to his disciples as representatives of the church, then you have to conclude that the church will go through the tribulation (pre-tribbers admit this).

The interpretation of this text is absolutely critical to understanding the timing of the rapture. Right now, I will not give the arguments for, what I believe, is clearly a passage for the church. We will get to that later. The main thing I want you to understand now is that this passage is the most critical passage in understanding when Christ will come for his church.

 

[Judy]

E. Tribulation period/Great Tribulation:

Now let's talk more about Daniel's 70th week. As I stated earlier, no where in the Bible does it ever refer to this 7 year period as the tribulation period.

The Greek word for tribulation is THLIPSIS. It means pressure. It was used during the time of Christ to describe a method of torture. A man was placed on a hard surface, his hands and feet were bound, and then a huge rock was placed on his chest. It would eventually cause death by suffocation (very similar to crucifixion). This rock created great pressure or THLIPSIS.

Now, in a non-prophetic text, Jesus says in John 16:33, that we would have tribulation or thlipsis in this world.

But it is also used in a prophetic sense.

• Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Now here Jesus says then there shall be great tribulation or thlipsis. Now understand that Matt 24 is a chronological text describing Daniel's 70th week. So let's see what happens prior to this period of Great Tribulation.

• Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

We've already talked about this event, haven't we? When does the abomination in verse 15 occur? So, in context, verse 21 has to be referring to a point after the middle of the 70th week. By the way, Pre-tribbers agree.

So in this passage, Jesus does refer to Great Thlipsis, but he is referring to a specific event that occurs in the middle of the 70th week. And it is in direct relation to the abomination of desolation.

So, let's catch up on what we know:

• 1.The 70th week of Daniel is a future 7 year period which will culminate the end of the age.

• 2.The 70th week is never called the Tribulation Period.

• 3.When Jesus refers to tribulation in a prophetic sense, he refers to it as Great Tribulation.

• 4.The Great Tribulation begins at the mid-way point of this 7 year period.

Now, the next question is how long is the Great Tribulation? It is not 3.5 years long. Nowhere in the Bible will you ever find that the Great Tribulation is 3.5 years long. How long is it? We don't know for sure, but we do know it is less than 3.5 years.

• Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

According to verse 22, those days will be cut short for the sake of the elect. The word there is the same word we get our word amputate. So, in context, what days will be amputated or cut short? It has to be the days immediately following the abomination of desolation, the period that Jesus calls the Great Tribulation.

In other words, the Great Tribulation starts in the middle, but does not run to the end of the 70th week. It is amputated. So, if that's the case, then what will happen from the end of the Great Tribulation to the end of the 70th week of Daniel? It is what the Bible calls the Day of the Lord!

 

[Vic C.]

Perfect timing for my question.

Judy, is there anything in this study that explicitly explains what Jesus is saying here?

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[Judy]

Perfect timing for my question.

Judy, is there anything in this study that explicitly explains what Jesus is saying here?

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Look above your post..... :-?

 

[jgredline]

Hello Folks
I will meditate on these post and then come back with questions.

 

[Judy]

Hello Folks
I will meditate on these post and then come back with questions.

I don't know if you are pre, mid or post-trib. I only pray that you and others here will consider this study with an open heart and bible seeking the truth.

 

[jgredline]

I don't know if you are pre, mid or post-trib. I only pray that you and others here will consider this study with an open heart and bible seeking the truth.

I have been a pre trib the past years. I feel strongly about this position, but to be honest, I have not heard or know much about Pre Wrath....That is a new term for me. I am guessing it means, mid trib, which I can believe also. Post trib, no way...

 

[Judy]

I have been a pre trib the past years. I feel strongly about this position, but to be honest, I have not heard or know much about Pre Wrath....That is a new term for me. I am guessing it means, mid trib, which I can believe also. Post trib, no way...

No it is not Mid trib.. it is beyond the mid point. You will see as the study progresses.
If you seriously follow alone with this study you may change your mind on the pre-trib position.

 

[jgredline]

No it is not Mid trib.. it is beyond the mid point. You will see as the study progresses.
If you seriously follow alone with this study you may change your mind on the pre-trib position.

Tomarrow I will print these articles and study them for a few days.
I am always open to learn

 

[Judy]

F. Day of the Lord (God's Wrath)

Now, before we see how the Day of the Lord fits into the 70th week of Daniel, we have to understand exactly what it is.

• This event called the Day of the Lord, without question, is spoken of more times in the Bible than any other prophetic event. When was the last time you heard a sermon on the Day of the Lord??[/*:m:5c2f8]

• Simply stated: The Day of the Lord is a future time when the Lord will unleash terrible judgment upon the world and the nation Israel.[/*:m:5c2f8]

This phrase the Day of the Lord, His Day, the Time of His Wrath, the Day of Christ all refer to that terrible time of judgment God will unleash upon the earth. He will, once and for all, purge the world of sin, and bring in everlasting righteousness.

Isaiah speaks of it. Ezekiel speaks of it. Joel speaks of it. Jeremiah, Amos, Zephaniah, Malachi, and Obadiah speak of it. Paul speaks of it. Peter speaks of it. And the book of Revelation speaks of it in great detail.

And may I also add, that when we speak of the Day of the Lord it is in contrast to man's day. We are living in man's day. Man is rebelling against God. God's day, the Day of the Lord, is coming.

When we talk about the Day of the Lord, we are not talking about a 24 hour period. For example, we use the term today, "your day is coming" (we're not speaking so much of a 24 hour day, but of retribution--you'll get yours someday). The Day of the Lord refers to a coming day when man's sin will be full, and when it reaches that fullness, God in essence says "no more, enough". And then he directly intervenes and judges the earth.

Now, there are two primary things that are going to happen in relation to the Day of the Lord:

• 1.He's going to deliver the righteous. Before God begins to judge the earth, he will remove the righteous out, because in 1 Thess 5:9, Paul says that "God has not appointed us to wrath but to obtain deliverance in Jesus Christ". God's wrath is poured out during the Day of the Lord, and we are not appointed unto wrath. (We'll say more about that later)

• 2.His judgment will be poured out on the earth. If you have ever read the events that will occur when the trumpets are blown and the bowls are poured out, you know how terrible that day will be. It will be awful. God is love, but his holiness, and justice require his intervention.
  Let me show you a good comparison:

• Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
  Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
  Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
  The Day of the Lord will be just like that. In fact, let's see what Jesus says about this time.

• Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
  Luke 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
  Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
  Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
  Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

And Isaiah:

• Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD [is] at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
  Isa 13:7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
  Isa 13:8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces [shall be as] flames.
  Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
  Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
  Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for [their] evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
  Isa 13:12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
  Isa 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
  Isa 13:14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.
  Isa 13:15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined [unto them] shall fall by the sword.
  Isa 13:16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.
  Isa 13:17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and [as for] gold, they shall not delight in it.
  Isa 13:18 [Their] bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.
  Isa 13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
  Isa 13:20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.
  Isa 13:21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.
  Isa 13:22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in [their] pleasant palaces: and her time [is] near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

And Joel:

• Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for [it is] nigh at hand;
  Joel 2:2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, [even] to the years of many generations.
  Joel 2:3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land [is] as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
  Joel 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
  Joel 2:11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp [is] very great: for [he is] strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD [is] great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

And Zephaniah:

• Zep 1:14 The great day of the LORD [is] near, [it is] near, and hasteth greatly, [even] the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
  Zep 1:15 That day [is] a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
  Zep 1:16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.
  Zep 1:17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
  Zep 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

And Amos:

• Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end [is] it for you? the day of the LORD [is] darkness, and not light.
  Amos 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
  Amos 5:20 [Shall] not the day of the LORD [be] darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

(You know who was desiring the Day of the Lord--the Jews. Do you know why? Because they thought it would be the day when God would judge the gentiles, and they would have it good. And they have to be corrected, and the prophets keep correcting them)

The Day of the Lord will be when God judges the entire world for sin, Jew and Gentile! There are numerous other passages that speak of this day, but I think you get the point. The Day of the Lord is awful. It is a time of judgment. A time of darkness. A time of fire. A time of humbling for man. It is God's Day. It is the wrath of God.

Now, when will the Day of the Lord begin? Before I tell you when the Bible says it begins, we need to know where most pre-tribbers believe it starts. Let me quote C.I. Scofield, in his notes attached to his popular Bible: (Read page 1372, if you have a Schofield Bible.)

Two things are of important note here:

He believes that there is blessing associated with the Day of the Lord. No where in the Bible does it state or infer that there is blessing associated with the Day of the Lord. As we just read, it is a time of total darkness and terror.

I want to throw in a quote by Richard Mayhue. Richard Mayhue is the dean of Master's seminary (MacAuthur's school). He did his doctoral dissertation on the Day of the Lord. It is the most thorough study on the Day of the Lord that I know of, 400 pages of research, listing every reference to the Day of the Lord in the Bible. Richard Mayhue, who is a pre-trib rapturist writes:

• "The prominent theme of the Day of the Lord is God's judgment against sin. It is present in every Day of the Lord passage. The blessings of Christ's millennial reign are subsequent to and as a result of the Day of the Lord, but they are not part of it...."

In other words, he is saying the Day of the Lord does not include the millennium. For the purpose of our study, that point is not critical, but it does show a reading into the scriptures something it does not say.

The second thing that is important to note concerning Scofield's views on the Day of the Lord is that he believes it begins after the rapture of the church, and begins with the commencement of the 70th week. He is actually half right. The Day of the Lord does begin after the rapture, but it does not start at the beginning of the 70th week. This is critical, so with Scofield and most other pre-tribbers I take strong exception. If the Day of the Lord begins at the beginning of Daniel's 70th week, then I would still believe in the Pre-trib rapture. But it does not. Let me show you.

• Joel 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
  Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
  Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD [is] near in the valley of decision.
  Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

What does Joel say must occur before the Day of the Lord begins? (we'll call this cosmic disturbance)

• Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
  Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
  Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for [their] evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Notice the cosmic disturbance

• Eze 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
  Eze 32:8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD.
  Eze 32:9 I will also vex the hearts of many people, when I shall bring thy destruction among the nations, into the countries which thou hast not known.

Notice the cosmic disturbance

In every passage where it speaks of the cosmic disturbance, it is always in the context of the Day of the Lord. Now, Look at Revelation chapter 6. Most Bible scholars believe the book of Revelation outlines the chronology of Daniel's 70th week (later I'll show you that Matt 24 directly parallels Rev 6).

• Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
  Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
  Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
  Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
  Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
  Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Revelation chapter 6 is a chronological account of Daniel's 70th week. The first seal was opened and certain events occur. The 2nd seal opens and certain events occur. The 3rd seal, 4th seal, 5th seal. And with the opening of the sixth seal there is cosmic disturbance, exactly what the prophets spoke of. And in verse 17 it says that the great Day of his wrath is come! So it is very clear that the Day of the Lord spoken of in the Old Testament occurs after the opening of the 6th seal. What happens next?

• Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

Silence. Why is there silence? Because God is about to directly intervene and judge sinful man. What follows are the 7 trumpet and 7 bowl judgments. This exactly parallels all the passages we read that speaks of the terror and darkness of the Day of the Lord.

Now, let's finish putting together the chronology of Daniel's 70th week. Lets look at Matthew 24. What do we know so far?

• 1.Daniel's 70th week is a future 7 year period

• 2.Antichrist defiles the temple at the mid-way point.

• 3.The Great Tribulation begins immediately after the abomination of desecration.

• 4.The Great Tribulation is cut short or amputated.

• 5.and next, the Day of the Lord begins.

• Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Immediately after the tribulation of what days?

• Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
  Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Now look back at verse 29 again. What did we call that? (cosmic disturbance) When does that occur? (at the opening of the sixth seal) So the Day of the Lord must begin in the latter half of the 70th week after the amputation of the Great Tribulation, and after the opening of the 6th seal.

Then the chronology of Daniel's 70th week goes like this:

• 1.The beginning of the 70th week starts with the confirmation of the covenant between Israel and the antichrist (Dan 9:27)

• 2.The antichrist breaks the agreement with Israel and defiles the temple at the midway point (Dan 9:27)

• 3.The Great Tribulation now begins, but is amputated right before the opening of the sixth seal (Matt 24:21-22,29)

• 4.The sixth seal opens which announces that the Day of the Lord is about to begin (Joel 2:30,31; Rev 6:17)

Now, the question of the Day. When does the rapture occur? Quoting from C.I. Scofield, he says


"The order of end-time events appear to be first, the rapture of the church just preceding the beginning of the Day of the Lord, the fulfillment of Daniel's 70th week, and the return of the Lord in glory to establish the millennial reign."
Now, as we've already shown, Scofield was wrong on when the Day of the Lord begins. It clearly begins in the latter half of the 70th week after the opening of the 6th seal. But he was absolutely right in linking it to the rapture.

• Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
  Luke 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
  Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
  Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
  Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

When does it say God's judgment started? (the same day Noah entered the ark, and the same day Lot left Sodom) The Bible clearly teaches that the removal of the righteous and God's judgment (the Day of the Lord) begin on the same day.

• 1Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
  1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
  1Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
  1Thess 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
  1Thess 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
  1Thess 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Remember, when the Bible was written, there were no chapter or verse numbers. The continuity of chapter 4 and chapter 5 clearly link the rapture and the Day of the Lord.

• 2Pet 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
  2Pet 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
  2Pet 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
  2Pet 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Peter here simply repeats what he has been taught by Christ--the truth that when Christ returns, he will come to simultaneously rescue his saints and destroy the wicked.

• Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
  Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
  Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Verse 29 says that at the commencement of the cosmic disturbance (6th seal), then (v30), Christ will return in the clouds to gather his elect.
And by the way, it is no incident that the disciples linked his coming and his judgment together (What is the sign of your coming and the end of the age?). The passage we just looked at in Luke 17 concerning Noah and Lot was taught by Jesus before the Olivet Discourse. And what was he teaching? That the removal of the righteous and the judgment of the world would begin on the same day. The disciples understood that. So the question they asked on the Mount of Olives was not how, but when would it be.

The Bible clearly teaches that the rapture of the church and the Day of Lord occur together. You cannot, exegetically, say the Day of the Lord begins beyond the middle of the 70th week, but we'd like to have the rapture occur 4-5 years earlier. The Bible allows for no such gap.

I want to quote from Dr. John Sproule, former head of the Greek Department at Grace Seminary which is a very staunch Pre-Trib school). He himself wrote a book in support of Pre-Trib Rapturism called In Defense of Pre-Tribulationalism. He writes,

"Every Old Testament passage containing this phrase (Day of the Lord) can be linked to the final portion of Daniel's 70th week, when God's wrath is poured out upon the Gentile nations. If this is true, then Pre-Tribs must face the critical problem of 1 Thess 5:1-11, and 2 Thess 2:1-5, which seem to link the rapture with the Day of the Lord".
Again, I want to quote from Richard Mayhue,

"...all of the Day of the Lord passages appear to find their fulfillment sometime in the second half of the 70th week".
And Dr. John MacAuthur, who used to believe the Day of the Lord began at the beginning of the 70th week, now says, "no way, it has to begin somewhere in the 2nd half of the 70th week.

I applaud these men for their courage to go against traditional pre-tribulation rapturism as to the placement of the Day of the Lord, yet some of these guys desperately want to somehow say even though the Day of the Lord starts somewhere beyond the middle of the 70th week, we still think the rapture occurs 4 or 5 years earlier. It's an impossible position based on the Lord's teaching in Matt 24, and based on Paul's teaching in 1 & 2 Thess that clearly link the rapture with the Day of the Lord.

 

[Judy]

G. Great Tribulation/Satan's Wrath

We've talked alot about God's wrath, now I want to very briefly make a distinction between the Day of the Lord and Satan's wrath. There will be a time in Daniel's 70th week when both man and Satan will have one last fling on the earth. The first 3.5 years and the Great Tribulation will be that time. The first 3.5 years are when the first 3 (or 4) seals are opened (we'll show this later). It will be a time when man's rebellion against God will come to an all-time high. Around the midway point, something very interesting will occur.

• Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
  Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
  Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
  Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
  Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
  Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
  Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].
  Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
  Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
  Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
  Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Most Bible scholars believe this takes place at the midway point of the 70th week, and marks the period that Jesus refers to as the Great Tribulation. Satan is so angry at this point that he unleashes his wrath against Israel and the saints of God.

• Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
  Matt 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
  Matt 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
  Matt 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
  Matt 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
  Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
  Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Jesus is referring specifically to the middle of the 70th week when antichrist defiles the temple and exalts himself above God. Jesus says when that happens, LOOK OUT! RUN! For then there will be Great Tribulation, such as the world has never seen. And again, it perfectly correlates with the scene John saw in heaven of Satan being cast to the earth. At that point, Satan knows that his time is short, and he will take out his wrath against the woman and her child.
Now you may be asking, why is this important? It really is critical because if you can prove that the entire 70th week of Daniel is the wrath of God, then you can prove a pre-tribulational rapture. But as we've already seen, the wrath of God is called the Day of the Lord, and that does not begin until after the opening of the 6th seal. And as we'll see when we look at Revelation, the first 5 seals are clearly not God's wrath, but the wrath of Satan. When God's judgment falls, antichrist's rule will be over. We will say more about this later.

Now, before we get to the meat of our study, there is one more term that we need to discuss.

 

[Judy]

H. Imminence

This word imminence is very important for us to understand. According to Dr. John Walvoord, imminence is the very heart of pre-tribulation rapturism. Without imminence, pre-trib rapturism has no foundation. So when pre-tribbers say they believe in imminence, what do they mean? If by imminence they mean that Jesus Christ is coming soon, and we should be eagerly waiting, looking, and preparing for his return, then I say AMEN!! But unfortunately, that is not what pre-tribbers mean when they say imminence. According to Walvoord and pre-tribbers, 3 things constitute imminence:

• Jesus could come back at any moment

• There will be no sign given of his return

• There are no prophesied events which must precede his return.

Now, I want to be very frank here. Nowhere in the Bible, and I mean nowhere, does the Bible ever teach, infer, or allude to the fact that Jesus could come back at any moment. You just cannot find it. Yes, it tells us we should watch, wait, look for, expect, be awake, be alert and prepared for his coming. But it never tells us it could be any moment, without a sign, or no prophesied event before it.

Let me give you the classic text which pre-tribbers use to base their imminence theory on.

• 1Thess 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Well, Ken, doesn't that sound like an any moment return of Christ? Wait a minute. Let's continue on.

• 1Thess 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
  1Thess 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
  1Thess 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
  1Thess 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.

Christ's return will be any moment for those who are not watching, but not to the believer. We are to be watching. For that day will not take us by surprise. That is what Paul is teaching!!

• Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
  Luke 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
  Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
  Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
  Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The world will be partying and carrying on, and just like the days of Noah, Christ's return will be imminent because they were in darkness and were not watching. But Paul says that we should watch and be sober so that day will not catch us like a thief.
Now, let's just look at a few scriptures that the pre-tribber uses to prove imminence:

• Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
  Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
  1Thess 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
  Phil 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord [is] at hand.

So what am I saying? The Bible simply does not teach imminency. What it does teach is expectancy!! Every one of us should live as if Jesus could return in our lifetime, that we could be the very generation that would see the signs of his return.

Now, let's look at some specific examples that I believe will discredit imminence. First of all, pre-tribbers believe that Jesus could return at any moment.

• John 21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry [thee] whither thou wouldest not.

Here Jesus was telling Peter how he would die. He was telling him that he would live to be old and be martyred. Question: Did Peter believe that Jesus could come back any moment??

• Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

It is very clear that Elijah must come before the Day of the Lord begins. In fact, even today, when Jews celebrate passover, there is an empty cup set for the prophet Elijah, and an empty chair set at every Jewish boy's circumcision. Most pre-tribbers believe that the Day of the Lord starts at the beginning of the 70th week. If Elijah must come before the Day of the Lord, and the rapture occurs simultaneously with the Day of the Lord, then imminence is destroyed because there would then be a prophesied event which needed to occur before Christ could return.

Dwight Pentecost, understanding this problem, tries to resolve it by suggesting that the Day of the Lord is a series of mini-days, and somehow Elijah gets sandwiched in between a couple of them--thus allowing it to be said that Elijah appears before the Day of the Lord but inside the 70th week of Daniel. Not only does this have no biblical merit, but it is contrary to the biblical teaching that the Day of the Lord is a comprehensive, singular period.

• Luke 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
  Luke 21:6 [As for] these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
  Luke 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign [will there be] when these things shall come to pass?
  Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
  Luke 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
  Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
  Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
  Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

This passage is foretelling the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple as mentioned in Daniel 9:26. Jesus was saying that before his return, Jerusalem would be destroyed and be trampled down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles were fulfilled. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD.

• Deu 30:5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

This is describing a return of the Jewish people to the land of Israel after the dispersion. When did the dispersion begin? When did Israel become a nation again? All pre-trib rapturists believe that before the end could come, Israel had to become a nation. They believe that was absolutely essential before the end could come. Question: If that is so, and I strongly agree, how could Jesus have returned at any moment between 70 AD and 1948? You couldn't believe in imminence before 1948! Is that not a prophesied event that had to occur before the return of Christ?
Hal Lindsey compares the fig tree in Matt 24 to Israel. He stated that when Israel became a nation in 1948, that event set the prophetic scene into high gear. He stated that the generation that saw Israel become a nation again, would be the generation that would see the return of Christ. So by his very words, he destroyed imminency. Because if one prophesied event has to occur before Daniel's 70th week, then imminency has no foundation. So, does the New Testament teach imminency?? It can't. There are prophesied events that have to occur before his return.

That's the fallacy with this view. Prior to 70 AD, imminency was possible. Between 70 AD and 1948, imminence is not possible. After 1948, imminence in now possible. Does the Bible teach imminence or not? You can't have it both ways.

• In the 3rd century, could they have seen Israel become a nation again, and expect Jesus to return in their lifetime? Yes.[/*:m:11e23]

• In the 11th century, could they have seen Israel become a nation again, and expect Jesus to return in their lifetime? Yes.[/*:m:11e23]

• In the 17th century, could they have seen Israel become a nation again, and expect Jesus to return in their lifetime? Yes.[/*:m:11e23]

• Can we expect Jesus to return in our lifetime? YES![/*:m:11e23]

The return of Israel as a nation is not the only thing that must occur prior to the Day of the Lord. The coming of Elijah must occur before the day of the Lord (Mal 5). Cosmic disturbance must occur before the Day of the Lord. The Sealing of the 144,000 must occur before the Day of the Lord.

Sensing the enormity of the problem, some pre-tribbers have suggested that there is a period of time between the rapture and the start of the Day of the Lord to allow time for these predicted events to occur. They are grasping at straws and there is absolutely no biblical basis to put any amount of time between the rapture and the Day of the Lord.

Beloved, the Bible teaches expectancy, not imminency. Jesus said, when you see all these things, know that my return is at hand. We are to live with the expectation that Jesus could return in our lifetime, and we should live in light of that expectation (holiness).

Now, it's going to seem like I'm contradicting myself, but the Bible does teach a point in time when his return will be at any moment, without any sign, and with no prophesied events to be fulfilled. Anyone know when that is?

It is when the last sign will be given.

• Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

READ Matt 24:30. Then and only then will his return be imminent. At that point, as Luke 21:28 says, "look up and lift your heads for your deliverance is drawing near".

 

[golfjack]

reply

Judy, Are you postmillenial? If so, do you spiritualize scripture?





May God bless, golfjack

 

[Judy]

Re: reply

Judy, Are you postmillenial? If so, do you spiritualize scripture?





May God bless, golfjack

No, I am premillenial :-? What in this study made you think I was postmillenial?

 

[Judy]

VI. Exegetical Defense


What we are going to do next is look at the 3 most important portions of scripture that deal with the timing of the rapture: Matt 24, Rev 6-8, 1 & 2 Thess. What we will see is that the Bible is remarkably consistent concerning this issue. I believe the scriptures are very clear, not only on the fact of the return of Christ, but the timing of it.

A. Matthew 24

Let's begin by seeing what the Lord Jesus had to say about his coming. Turn to Matthew, chapter 24.

As you read these verses, imagine that it is Jesus speaking to you, who are his disciples.

• And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
  
  And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
  
  "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
  
  "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
  
  "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
  
  "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day, For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
  
  "Then if any man shall say unto you, 'Lo, here is Christ,' or 'there'; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, 'Behold, he is in the desert'; go not forth: 'behold, he is in the secret chambers'; believe it not.
  
  "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
  
  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
  
  "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh. So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Most pre-millennial Bible scholars believe that this chapter is a text that deals with the chronology within Daniel's 70th week. In other words, everything from verse 4-34 will happen within that 7 year period (when we look at Revelation we will solidify that).

The disciples have asked Jesus the sign of his coming and of the end of the age. In other words, they've asked him for two signs, right?? So starting in verse 5, he begins to list signs.

• 1.False Christ's

• 2.Wars and rumors of wars

• 3.famines and earthquakes

And in verse 8, Jesus says these are the beginning of birth pangs. Now, if these are the beginning of birth pangs, what will the hard labor be like? The labor will get harder and harder the closer we get to his coming. Christians will be persecuted, and many will by martyred for their faith.

Next, we have a very sad statement. Because of the severe testing that will come upon the saints, many professing Christians will fall away from the faith. Others love for Christ will grow cold. Aside: It's easy to profess Christ when things are going good, but the true test of one's loyalty is to stand tall when things get tough.

Those who remain faithful to Christ will be delivered from God's judgment. Remember, when Jesus says the end, what does he mean? (the end of the age; the harvest--when the righteous are separated from the unrighteous). This is not a verse that's speaking of salvation by works, as some teach. In context, this is Christ promising to save or deliver those who are faithful to him in the midst of persecution.

Jesus says that the end of the age will not come until the gospel is preached to the whole world. Now, I'm not sure the church can ever accomplish this lofty goal, but God can and will.

• Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
  Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Now in Matthew 24:4-14, Jesus is describing general events that will happen within the 70th week, and as we will see later, they perfectly line up with the first 5 seals in Rev 6. What Jesus is saying is this: There will be certain events occur that will mark the beginning of the end. They will increase in magnitude to include the persecution of the saints. And he makes it clear that those who are faithful until the harvest, will be delivered. Then and only then will God's wrath come.

Starting in verse 15, Jesus switches from general to specific events within the 70th week.

• Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
  Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
  Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
  Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
  Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
  Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.

Here Jesus begins to expound on the worst time of persecution that has or will ever occur. It is going to be a severe test for the Church. It begins with the abomination of desolation that Daniel speaks of. And as we've already seen, it's at this point that Satan is cast to the earth and begins to take out his wrath against Israel and the saints.

It will be a time of great testing for the saints whereby we will have a choice, choose Christ and die, or choose antichrist and temporarily live. It is a time when the Lord will allow Satan to sift the Church and only those who are genuine believers will endure.

• Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Genuine believers will endure, but it will be at the expense of their very lives. It will be so bad in fact, that no believing flesh would be saved if that time were not cut short. (verse 22).

Now, we have not covered every verse in detail. My purpose is to give you a general overview of the chronological flow of this passage. Remember, most scholars believe that all these events occur within Daniel's 70th week. Now, let's read the most controversial verses in this chapter.

• Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
  Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
  Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The question we need to ask ourselves concerning this passage is critical: Is this the rapture of the church or a picture of Armageddon? To find out the answer we need to determine whether Jesus was talking to his disciples in Matt 24 as future Church fathers or speaking to them as unsaved Israel. In other words, was Jesus saying that the Church would endure these things or unsaved Israel?

 

[golfjack]

reply

Jesus is talking to the Jews in Matt. 24. He is describing birth paiins, which I believe we are experiencing now. He is describing also, the great Tribulation, ( Armegeden). At verse 14, that is the rapture, then 15 starts the Tribulation, where the Jews and the unbelievers will be.. The Church in No way will be there. And the Church doesn't replace Israel. Of course many Jews will be saved and martyred here, after their eyes are opened. Romans 11:25 tells me this. One more thing, Notice that every nation has to receive the Gospel message, but iit doesn't say people. As far as I am concerned, it could happen any time now. We have all the signs fulfilled, even false Christ's.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[Judy]

Thank you for your opinion. Have you read all that I have been posting here? :-?

 

[golfjack]

reply

Judy, I am trying to filter it out Judy. It seems to me that Pre-wrath is in the middlle of the tribulation. I am pre-trib. For me to be pre-wrath< I would have to be a Dominionist. I have been studying end-times for about 3 years now, I like the teachings of Finis Jennings Dake, Oral Roberts, Hilton Sutton, Grant Jefferies, and other Charismatic Authors.



May God bless, Golfjack