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The Catholic Roots of Human Rights

Innocent III (1160-1216) came to the papal throne in 1198 and called for the Fourth Crusade. A number of powerful lords answered the call and decided to proceed by sea. The Venetians agreed to furnish transportation and food and also contributed fifty warships on condition that they would share equally in all future conquests. Enrico Dandolo (c.1108-1205) agreed to forgive the debt temporarily if the crusaders would help him conquer Zara, a town on the eastern side of the Adriatic that had revolted against Venetian domination. So the Fourth Crusade began with the sack and destruction of a Roman Catholic town in 1202! The pope excommunicated the crusaders.

The crusaders then turned their sights on a new goal: Constantinople.
The German king, Philip of Swabia proposed that the massed armies escort Alexius, a prince with a strong claim to the throne, to Constantinople and enthrone him. If successful, Alexius would finance the subsequent expedition, the goal of which was Egypt. In the spring of 1203, the fortified crusaders attacked Constantinople. Despite advanced warning, the usurper Alexius III, had done little to prepare the city. In the initial assault, the crusaders won a complete naval victory though the city held its ground. A second attack by both land and sea broke through the defenses and Alexius III fled the city. The young Alexius was then crowned Alexius IV. The city was eventually damaged when a group of Franks set fire to a mosque in the Saracen quarter and Alexius IV refused to make the promised payment. Convinced that Alexius IV could not make peace with the crusaders, a faction of senators, clergy and the populace deposed Alexius, who was later murdered in prison by yet another usurper.

In March 1204 the crusaders and Venetians agreed to seize the city a second time and to elect a Latin emperor. This siege ended in a second capture and a three-day sack of Constantinople. The pope criticized the outrage. Whole libraries and collections of art were destroyed but the Venetians managed to salvage what they could and sent it all back to Venice. Of particular importance were sacred relics including a fragment identified as the True Cross and part of the head of John the Baptist.
 
Tyndale’s views on the sole authority of Scripture and his bold exposure of Rome’s errors soon drew the ire of the Catholic authorities. Tyndale later testified of these experiences in the following words:

"A thousand books had they rather to be put forth against their abominable doings and doctrine, than that the Scripture should come to light. For as long as they may keep that down, they will so darken the right way with the mist of their sophistry, and so tangle them that either rebuke or despise their abominations, with arguments of philosophy, and with worldly similtudes, and apparent reasons of natural wisdom; and with wresting the Scriptures unto their own purpose, clean contrary unto the process, order, and meaning of the text; and so delude them in descanting upon it with allegories . . . that though thou feel in thine heart, and art sure, how that all is false that they say, yet couldst thou not solve their subtile riddles. Which thing only moved me to translate the New Testament. Because I had perceived by experience, how that it was impossible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the Scripture were plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the process, order, and meaning of the text: for else, whatsoever truth is taught them, these enemies of all truth quench it again . . . that is with apparent reasons of sophistry, and traditions of their own making; and partly in juggling with the text, expounding it in such a sense as is impossible to gather of the text itself" (Tyndale, Introduction to Five Books of Moses).
 
bibleberean said:
Tyndale’s views on the sole authority of Scripture and his bold exposure of Rome’s errors soon drew the ire of the Catholic authorities. Tyndale later testified of these experiences in the following words: /quote]

That's nice, but we wasn't burned at the stake by the Catholic Church as you claimed.
 
Gary said:
I agree... some of the sources cannot be trusted.

Take this one for instance. Many people have incorrectly trusted this nutty organisation .....

Source: Vatican says sorry

What exactly did the Church do wrong?

The fault was with the crusades that defied the Church and attacked Constantiople.
 
Are you suggesting that your pope said "We are sorry" 94 times for things the RCC did NOT do wrong?

:-?
 
"Tyndale was living in the free city of Antwerp, but the surrounding land was still under the control of Emperor Charles V, also nephew of Catherine whom Henry had recently divorced. Tyndale was kidnapped, taken from Antwerp, and imprisoned in the fortress of Vilvorde. He was later convicted of heresy, strangled, and burned at the stake on October 6, 1536.

While tied to the stake, and just prior to being strangled by the executioner, he cried: "Lord, open the King of England's eyes." Tyndale's prayer had already been granted, for he did not know that for several months, the Henry VIII had given permission for Myles Coverdale's vernacular Bibles to be distributed. Coverdale was not an expert in foreign languages and his New Testament source is principally that of William Tyndale. "

http://www.cob-net.org/text/history_tyndale.htm
 
Gary said:
Are you suggesting that your pope said "We are sorry" 94 times for things the RCC did NOT do wrong?

:-?

Did the Pope say "we're sorry for authorizing the Crusades"?

No.

The problem was with the Crusaders which carried out the will of the Church, but ended up only caring about wealth instead. For that, the Church is sorry.
 
bibleberean said:
"Tyndale was living in the free city of Antwerp, but the surrounding land was still under the control of Emperor Charles V, also nephew of Catherine whom Henry had recently divorced. Tyndale was kidnapped, taken from Antwerp, and imprisoned in the fortress of Vilvorde. He was later convicted of heresy, strangled, and burned at the stake on October 6, 1536.

While tied to the stake, and just prior to being strangled by the executioner, he cried: "Lord, open the King of England's eyes." Tyndale's prayer had already been granted, for he did not know that for several months, the Henry VIII had given permission for Myles Coverdale's vernacular Bibles to be distributed. Coverdale was not an expert in foreign languages and his New Testament source is principally that of William Tyndale. "

http://www.cob-net.org/text/history_tyndale.htm

Right, so was he burned at the stake or not?? Now you tell me he WASN'T burned at the stake, but STRANGLED, then had his corpse burned.

He was also executed for heresy, which was considered a threat to the government.

So he wasn't burned at the stake, he wasn't killed by the Catholic Church and he wasn't killed for translating the bible.
Thus, the statement "Burned at the stake by the Catholic Church for translating the bible" was completely false.
 
The Catholic Church is long been noted for it's use of government to use their weapons against those that oppose it.

UNAM SANCTAM

Bull of Pope Boniface VIII promulgated November 18, 1302


Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads like a monster; that is, Christ and the Vicar of Christ, Peter and the successor of Peter, since the Lord speaking to Peter Himself said: 'Feed my sheep' [Jn 21:17], meaning, my sheep in general, not these, nor those in particular, whence we understand that He entrusted all to him [Peter].

Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.'

We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal.

For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient.

Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered for the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest".

As you can see from the above Rome believes that it can use force of arms if need by and expedient to her purposes.

The RCC as been exposed as a liar and re-writer of history many times.

It's tactics in the past are to murder all those who defy her and then call those they murder hereticks.

A good chapter to read for free is Rome's Fraudulent History by Dave Hunt

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/beast07.htm
 
bibleberean said:
Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.'

What is wrong with this? We believe there is only one Church, you can't make up your own little ones. This is no different than what we believe today, so what's the big deal?

We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal.

For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient.

Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered for the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest".

As you can see from the above Rome believes that it can use force of arms if need by and expedient to her purposes.


What is wrong with using force to fight invaders? The Muslims had long been at war with Europe. Did you just want the Church to ask local governments to lay down their arms?

The RCC as been exposed as a liar and re-writer of history many times.

When has it lied or re-written history?
 
The Popes weren't using the sword to repel invaders but to wipe out those who wouldn't submit to the Popes.

From the same Papal Bull!

UNAM SANCTAM
Bull of Pope Boniface VIII promulgated November 18, 1302

URGED BY FAITH, WE ARE OBLIGED TO BELIEVE AND TO MAINTAIN THAT THE CHURCH IS ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND ALSO APOSTOLIC. WE BELIEVE IN HER FIRMLY AND WE CONFESS WITH SIMPLICITY THAT OUTSIDE OF HER THERE IS NEITHER SALVATION NOR THE REMISSION OF SINS,...

...FURTHERMORE, WE DECLARE, WE PROCLAIM, WE DEFINE THAT IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY FOR SALVATION THAT EVERY HUMAN CREATURE BE SUBJECT TO THE ROMAN PONTIFF.

Contrast this with the true gospel. Notice that being subject to the tyrant of Rome is not part of what saves us.

1Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Does anyone see the Pope's name mentioned in the following verses.

Acts 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the NAME OF JESUS, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 NEITHER IS THERE SALVATION IN ANY OTHER: FOR THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN, WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED.

It is not necessary for salvation to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. The Pope is an anti-christ!

"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the Popery in the Church of Rome there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name.

It wounds Christ, robs Christ of His glory, puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement, and lifts a piece of bread in the place of the Saviour....If we pray against it, because it is against Him, we shall love the persons though we hate their errors; we shall love their souls, though we loathe and detest their dogmas...."


popecbs.jpg


C. H Spurgeon (All Roads Lead To Rome, Dorcheste House, 1991, pg. 183).
 
Tortures of the Inquistion

Skin flayed off of head, face and body

Nipples pulled off

Fried alive in pans

Bound to pillar head down and roasted

Mouth slit back to ears

Crucified upside down

Put in cauldrons of boiling oil

Thrown out of windows upon upward facing spears

Bodies gored through mouths with pikes

Arms cut off

Torturous slow burning e.g., burn soles of feet, then up to ankles, mid-calf, etc. until dead

Bellies burnt until bowels fell out

Women stripped, hung from tree by their hair and scourged

Tourniquet placed on head and twisted until eyes came out

Ears bored out

Tongue cut out

Set down (by pulley) into a fire by degrees

Thrown to dogs

Hung up by the heels and choked with smoke

Smothered in caves on mountains

Hearts pulled out, which the papists gnawed with their teeth.

Some roasted upon spits over a soft fire

Some had their bowels pulled out

A smith had his brains beaten out on his anvil with a hammer

Some had sharp instruments forced under their nails and other body parts

Some racked until their bowels broke out

Some had their throats cut with butcher knives

Knocked on the head with axes

Naked women left hung up by one leg on trees until they died

Some slain and their body parts set on stakes for 30 miles streches

Some had their noses and breasts pulled off with red hot pinchers

Some had their flesh torn with the claws of wild animals

Murdered in a church during sermon

Some hanged by one foot, their hands and breasts in the water

Some hung up by one hand with weights of lead at their heels

Two tied together and slain

Some were torn in pieces by horses

A legion of soldiers cut some to pieces with swords

Some had boots of boiling oil put on their legs over a small fire.

Some hung up on trees by the middle til they died of hunger

Women's bellies ripped up and their children trod underfeet

All this was employed to wipe out place fear into bible believing Christians who dared not to submit to the "Holy Roman Catholic Church"!

The following quotes are cited from The American Textbook of Popery which in turn quotes from the Directory for the Inquisitors (page numbers listed are for the Directory)--

"He is a heretic who does not believe what the Roman Hierarchy teaches. --A heretic merits the pains of fire. --By the Gospel, the canons, civil law, and custom, heretics must be burned."--148, 169

"He is a heretic who deviates from any article of faith." --p. 143

"All sects of heretics are condemned and various punishments are appointed for them and their accomplices." --Pope Alexander IV, --p. 135

"Statutes that impede the execution of the duties which appertain to the office of Inquisitors are null and void." --Pope Urban IV, p. 106

"They who bury persons knowing them to be excommunicated, or their receivers, defenders, or favourers, shall not be absolved unless they dig up the corpse; and the place shall be deprived of the usual immunities of sepulture." --Pope Alexander IV, p. 104

"Inquisitors must discard all fear, and intrepidly proceed against heretical pravity."

"All defence is denied to heretics." p. 153

"For the suspicion alone of heresy, purgation is demanded." --p. 156

"Heretics are by right condemned." --p. 157

"He who is without the church can neither be reconciled nor saved." --p. 144

See the anti christ slide show.


http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/anti1.htm
 
Cure of Ars said:
The Catholic Church played a big role in the development of our modern understanding of human rights.


Really?

I find it extremely distasteful, that we can't deport foreign terrorists from the U.K.. Why? because of the silly notion that they have "human rights", which prevent them from being sent back to a country where they may be tortured or killed.
 
DivineNames said:
Cure of Ars said:
The Catholic Church played a big role in the development of our modern understanding of human rights.


Really?

I find it extremely distasteful, that we can't deport foreign terrorists from the U.K.. Why? because of the silly notion that they have "human rights", which prevent them from being sent back to a country where they may be tortured or killed.

You're like a breath of fresh air. You post has something to do with the original topic. I don't know much about what is going on in th UK. I would think that terrorists need to be locked up until they die and not returned. I agree that the modern understanding of human rights is messed up because it has been disconected to natural law. Would you say that humans do not have rights though?
 
The original topic?

The lie that Roman tyrants, murderous Popes, who have ruthlessly crushed, tortured and murdered anyone who opposed them or even dared question their policies are really the head of a church filled with "freedom loving" saints.

Now we are on the subject of deporting Muslim terrorists from England.

That is way off topic in my opinion... 8-)
 
The Roots of ruthless and unabashed tyranny by those who claim to hold the place of Christ on this earth has it's roots in Catholicism.

Excerpts

Infallible Heretics

A Woman Rides the Beast: The Roman Catholic Church and the Last Days, copyright 1994 by Dave Hunt, The Berean Call, P.O. Box 7019, Bend, OR

PAPAL HERETICS'S HERETIC

Pope John XXII (1316-34)


John XXII's predecessor, Clement V, had given away all of the Church's wealth to his relatives, leaving a bare treasury. That condition the new pope went about to cure with a vengeance. He sold everything for a price, including absolution from sin and eternal salvation. Thus the golden chalice held by the woman riding the beast was refilled with filthy lucre gained by abominable means exactly as the apostle John foresaw in his remarkable vision.

John XXII published a list of crimes and gross sins, together with the individual price for which he, as vicar of Christ, head of the one true Church, would absolve transgressors from each of them. The list left nothing out, from murder and piracy to incest, adultery, and sodomy. The wealthiest one was, the more one could sin; the more Catholics sinned, the richer the Church became.

Much of the wealth thus acquired was spent to further John XXII's passion for wars. One of his contemporaries wrote: "The blood he shed would have incarnadined [reddened] the waters of Lake Constance [an extremely large lake], and the bodies of the slain would have bridged it from shore to shore (Ibid.).

John XXII's pet doctrine was like that of many who are popular on Christian radio and TV today: that Christ and His apostles had been men of great wealth. So he declared in a papal bull, Cum inter nonnullos (1323). To deny this dogma was heresy punishable by death. John demanded that secular rulers burn at the stake Franciscans who had taken vows of poverty.

Those who refused to do so were excommunicated.

During his pontificate he handed over 114 Franciscans to the Inquisition to be consumed by the flames for the heresy of purposely living in poverty as Christ had. Thus it became official Roman Catholic dogma that Christ and His disciples were men of considerable wealth, and that all Christians ought to be so--a dogma repudiated by other popes.


Such papal heretics and their condemnation of one another are part of the history of the popes, a history which Catholics must honestly face. And Protestants as well, those who admire John Paul II, must realize that the position he holds and the special authority he claims come to him through a long line of criminals and heretics whom he and his Church still honor as past vicars of Christ.


THE HOLY HERETIC

Millions of Catholics from whom the historical truth has been hidden have looked upon John XXII as an exceptionally holy man. Was he not favored above all popes by "Our Lady of Mount Carmel" with one of her rare personal appearances? John swore that the "Virgin Mary" appeared to him to present the Great Promise: that she would personally go into purgatory the Saturday after their death and take to heaven all those who, having met certain other conditions, died wearing her brown scapular. In reliance upon this special Sabbatine [Saturday] Privilege, which was confirmed by others, untold millions of Roman Catholics have since worn (and still wear today) the brown scapular of "Our Lady of Mount Carmel" as their ticket to heaven.

John XXII was eventually denounced as a heretic by Emperor Louis of Bavaria, who deposed him and appointed another pope in his place. But the emperor's purging of the papacy turned embarrassing when, shortly after the new pope took office, his wife appeared on the scene. The emperor quickly decided that John XXII wasn't so bad after all.

For, as de Rosa sarcastically remarks, although John, like most of the other popes, had illegitimate children, at least he "had never committed the sin of matrimony." Such sarcasm, though it comes from a Catholic historian, may seem unfair at first but is in fact fully warranted. Today's Code of Canon Law 1394, refers to marriage as a "scandal" for a priest, whereas it has no such harsh words for sins of which priests are frequently guilty even today, such as child molestation, keeping a mistress, homosexuality, etc.

Reinstated as pope, John XXII's heretical pronouncements became so outrageous that only his death saved him from removal again from the papacy. Yet he remains on that long list of alleged successors of Peter through whom Pope John Paul II received his authority.
 
There will always be Judases in the Church. Bibleberean are you suggesting that Judas types are only in the Catholic Church? Are you without sin? Are all your pastors free from being a Judas?
 
I am not even remotely making excuses for sin for anyone including myself.

This isn't even the issue.

The doctrines of devils are mandated by Rome!

Quote from my last post.

THE HOLY HERETIC

"Millions of Catholics from whom the historical truth has been hidden have looked upon John XXII as an exceptionally holy man

. Was he not favored above all popes by "Our Lady of Mount Carmel" with one of her rare personal appearances? John swore that the "Virgin Mary" appeared to him to present the Great Promise: that she would personally go into purgatory the Saturday after their death and take to heaven all those who, having met certain other conditions, died wearing her brown scapular. In reliance upon this special Sabbatine [Saturday] Privilege, which was confirmed by others, untold millions of Roman Catholics have since worn (and still wear today) the brown scapular of "Our Lady of Mount Carmel" as their ticket to heaven."

The roots of the Catholic Church is about tyranny and power not freedom.

It is also spiritual bully that has made claims it has never renounced.

Vatican II

"Basing itself on scripture and tradition, it teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk. 16:16; Jn. 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence, they could not be saved who knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it." (Vol. 1, pp. 365 and 366)


Here is a Papal Encyclical by Pope Boniface the VIII. This is a decree from an "infallible Pope"

UNAM SANCTAM
Bull of Pope Boniface VIII promulgated November 18, 1302

URGED BY FAITH, WE ARE OBLIGED TO BELIEVE AND TO MAINTAIN THAT THE CHURCH IS ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND ALSO APOSTOLIC. WE BELIEVE IN HER FIRMLY AND WE CONFESS WITH SIMPLICITY THAT OUTSIDE OF HER THERE IS NEITHER SALVATION NOR THE REMISSION OF SINS,...

FURTHERMORE, WE DECLARE, WE PROCLAIM, WE DEFINE THAT IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY FOR SALVATION THAT EVERY HUMAN CREATURE BE SUBJECT TO THE ROMAN PONTIFF.

Contrast this with the true gospel. Notice that being subject to the tyrant of Rome is not part of what saves us.

1Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Does anyone see the Pope's name mentioned in the following verses?

Acts 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the NAME OF JESUS, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 NEITHER IS THERE SALVATION IN ANY OTHER: FOR THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN, WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED.

It is not necessary for salvation to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. The Pope' are all anti-christs!

There is no salvation in a church. There is only salvation in Jesus Christ. Saved people are members of the body of Christ.

The Catholic church is not a Christian church. It is a church with a false gospel another Jesus and another Spirit.

The RCC makes totally contradictory statements about salvation, Mary,Sainthood, indulgences, praying to or through statues (and on and on) whenever it suits her.

There is no excuse for her. She is not the church Christ built... and she is not a champion of freedom.
 
Stray Bullet said:
The Anabaptists came out of the 16th Century. The Baptists came out of the 17th Century.

Dave replies:
From the link I provided.

THE TRAIL OF BLOOD
http://users.aol.com/libcfl/trail.htm

Cardinal Hosius (Catholic, 1524), President of the Council of Trent:

"Were it not that the baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past twelve hundred years, they would swarm in greater number than all the Reformers." (Hosius, Letters, Apud Opera, pp. 112, 113.)

There are many more quotes from your people that contradict your peoples statements, including yours. I would encourage anybody who loves the truth to read the link, and test it.

Dave
 
Dave... said:
Stray Bullet said:
The Anabaptists came out of the 16th Century. The Baptists came out of the 17th Century.

Dave replies:
From the link I provided.

THE TRAIL OF BLOOD
http://users.aol.com/libcfl/trail.htm

[quote:57e99]Cardinal Hosius (Catholic, 1524), President of the Council of Trent:

"Were it not that the baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past twelve hundred years, they would swarm in greater number than all the Reformers." (Hosius, Letters, Apud Opera, pp. 112, 113.)

There are many more quotes from your people that contradict your peoples statements, including yours. I would encourage anybody who loves the truth to read the link, and test it.

Dave[/quote:57e99]

He never said that.
http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/forg ... osius.html

Again, the Trail of Blood is a fictional story like the Da Vinci Code. Some parts are true and some are pure fiction.

The link is pure fiction because it starts the Catholic Church at the time of Constantine, which is completely bogus.
 
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