The covid injections don't work

[WIP]

WIP you have always pointed out how vaccines take a long time trials to find problems.

Those tires were designed to meet a speed rating. They were designed to meet operating conditions.they were designed for service life.
Then
They were tested to destruction. If they failed - back to the drawing board. Finally they exceed or meet the design parameters.
Then people look at service life indicators. If they went bald early they would seek warranty replacement.

Not critical about your post just extending the example.

eddif

I had a set of tires on an F-250 at a time when I couldn't afford new ones. They were so worn that there were places where the nylon cap laminates under the tread were exposed but they still held air. I knew it was risky to keep using those tires but it was a risk I was willing to take at the time. Would it be right for me to demand, coerce, or force others to ride with me in that vehicle using those tires?

 

[jaybo]

While the article is about a single death, there are many other "single articles".
I believe a balanced conversation of the matter would NOT minimize the death or try and sweep the death under the rug. On the contrary, the fact that the CDC recognizes the vaccine can cause death is a valid concern and discussion.

Any way you slice it, fear is a motivator and integral part of this discussion regardless of which side of the vaccine debate one is on. As a result, the choices anyone makes are based on risk, and one's comfort level associated with said risk.

We know that Covid can cause myocarditis and people die from this. We also know that the Vaccine can cause myocarditis. So, from an individual perspective, it's about risk. Do you want to risk getting myocarditis from Covid, or do you want to risk getting myocarditis from the vaccine? This is a personal decision for each of us. For some, this risk is not even considered, and they take the vaccine with no thought of the risk. But this is not true for everyone. And it is my personal belief that we should each make our own decision on the matter.

If I were a betting man, I would be that you received the vaccine because you were fearful of contracting Covid and getting deathly ill, or even fearful of losing your life. If this is true, then you should be able to connect those feelings to somebody who carries that same fear over the vaccine.

Which is worse? Having a reaction to the vaccine (mild to moderate discomfort for a few days) or being hospitalized, with severe pain and possibly death?

I can't equate being fearful of contracting Covid and getting deathly ill, or even losing my life, with somebody being fearful over the vaccine and any possible side effects.

 

[jaybo]

I had a set of tires on an F-250 at a time when I couldn't afford new ones. They were so worn that there were places where the nylon cap laminates under the tread were exposed but they still held air. I knew it was risky to keep using those tires but it was a risk I was willing to take at the time. Would it be right for me to demand, coerce, or force others to ride with me in that vehicle using those tires?

Say what? If you want a different analogy, you put on slightly worn tires instead of continuing to drive on tires with no tread. That way the risk is much, much smaller to both you and your passengers.

 

[eddif]

I had a set of tires on an F-250 at a time when I couldn't afford new ones. They were so worn that there were places where the nylon cap laminates under the tread were exposed but they still held air. I knew it was risky to keep using those tires but it was a risk I was willing to take at the time. Would it be right for me to demand, coerce, or force others to ride with me in that vehicle using those tires?

The truck tires far exceeded their safety requirements. No booster recaps needed to limp along.

You done good.
eddif

 

[WIP]

Here's an example of the hypocrisy and lack of common sense factor from Covid-19.

On Wednesday, two days ago, I along with two other fellas were helping my neighbor install in-floor heating tubes on the basement ceiling of his house. One of his sons and daughter-in-law were here for Christmas from Boston and are expected to leave tomorrow, Christmas day.

On Wednesday we were having coffee in the afternoon along with my neighbor's son and daughter-in-law. Wednesday evening our church choir got together at their home to sing a few songs and enjoy some fellowship. Yesterday the HVAC installer was there all day installing the boiler system for the new in-floor heat.

My wife has been with her mother for the past week helping here as she is recovering from surgery and will not be home until next week so my neighbor graciously extended and invited for me to join them for Christmas eve dinner tonight. A few minutes ago I got a call from my neighbor telling me that his son and daughter-in-law are not very comfortable gathering with too many people.

• Now let's get this straight. Wednesday, four of us guys spent all day there and in the afternoon were with my neighbor's son and daughter-in-law at the coffee table. Good opportunity to spread the virus if one of us was contagious.
• That evening, there were about 8 of us there for our choir practice along with the son and daughter-in-law. Another good opportunity to spread the virus if one of us was contagious.
• Yesterday, the HVAC tech was there all day. Another good opportunity to spread the virus if he was contagious.
• My neighbor's son came earlier in the week but his wife didn't arrive until Wednesday because she made a couple other stops to visit relatives and friends along the way. Another good opportunity to spread the virus if one of them was contagious.
• Tomorrow, when they leave, they are going to visit her family for a couple days before heading back to Boston. Another good opportunity to spread the virus if one of them is contagious.

I also know that all of them, including me, are fully vaccinated and some have just received their first booster.

Here's how I see it. I was the only "extra" invited to dinner this evening and I had already been exposed to them a couple times this week. If I get together with two other people but I do it a dozen times am I at any more risk than if I gathered with all 24 people at one time? It sounds more like Covid was a good excuse to exclude me. I don't mind if they decided that they'd rather just have a family dinner tonight but this sounds like a pretty lame excuse.

 

[stovebolts]

The a vaccinated person can catch and spread covid just like an unvaccinated person... So this claim that its protecting others is false... Its just propaganda to force these experimental in injections

If by "protection" you mean not getting Covid or spreading it, then you are correct, but only if you look at breakthrough cases and completely disregard the millions of people like myself who have come in direct contact with covid multiple times and have not gotten covid and as a result, have not spread it.

I would also add that the vast majority of breakthrough cases have resulted in minor symptoms. While it's true that there has been severe illness and even death with some breakthrough cases, again, most breakthrough cases are very mild.

This being said, the claim that vaccines protect is not a false claim for the vast majority of people who receive the vaccine and the data backs this up.

Your talking about protecting yourself from illness. Im talking about protecting others. It simply does not do that.

Please see my reply above. Only breakthrough cases can infect others and it's good to note that the time a breakthrough case can spread the virus is shorter than a person who has not been vaccinated. If you get the vaccine and you don't contract Covid when exposed, you can't spread the virus. By default, when you protect yourself, you protect others.

Yet all i hear on the radio is to get vaxed to protect others... Its an outright lie... Your protecting yourself maybe, no one else... Its just a ploy to discriminate against us and segregate us like they are already.

I see that you're on a mission against the vaccine. That's ok, but please look at what I and others have written. And please stop your propaganda that "It's an outright lie".

Only a vaccinated person can enter the state of Tasmania but they need a negative test...
Why then can't i go there with a negative test... Why discriminate... All based on such lies...

The people of Tasmania need to deal with this. It's not my issue. But I regress, it's not based on lies. Instead, I offer it's based on fear and control.

A vaxed person can go into the store but i cannot... Why... They spread just as much as us. So whats with the discrimination? Based on lies. Why can't we buy or sell?

Again, you'll need to take that up with your leaders, or move to the USA and plant yourself in a state that doesn't impose those restrictions.

I will say this, if these restrictions are being placed upon you, you have the right to be angry. You should be angry. And yes, it is my opinion that you should protest. But I will add this, your current anger is misdirected and you're attacking the wrong issue.

The issue isn't really "is the vaccine effective", or "Does the vaccine really protect me and others". The issue is your leadership imposing unfair restrictions upon you and taking away your right to choose.

I live in a state that tried to do just that when the pandemic first started, and the pushback was severe even to the attempted kidnapping of our governor. Currently, our state has the highest Covid rate in America and our hospitals are at the brink with unvaccinated Covid patients. That being said, our governor is not imposing any mandates, including masks. Why? Because the people have spoken.

 

[WIP]

Say what? If you want a different analogy, you put on slightly worn tires instead of continuing to drive on tires with no tread. That way the risk is much, much smaller to both you and your passengers.

Do you need me to explain the tire analogy to you?

 

[WIP]

While it's true that there has been severe illness and even death with some breakthrough cases, again, most breakthrough cases are very mild.

It is also true that most cases even for those who are not vaccinated are extremely mild or asymptomatic. But, to your point, the likelihood of severe response for unvaccinated, although small, is still many times greater than for those who are vaccinated.

 

[jaybo]

Do you need me to explain the tire analogy to you?

No thanks. 8^)

 

[jaybo]

It is also true that most cases even for those who are not vaccinated are extremely mild or asymptomatic. But, to your point, the likelihood of severe response for unvaccinated, although small, is still many times greater than for those who are vaccinated.

What is the source of this information?

 

[WIP]

The issue isn't really "is the vaccine effective", or "Does the vaccine really protect me and others". The issue is your leadership imposing unfair restrictions upon you and taking away your right to choose.

 

[Northman]

Of course, everyone anti-vaxx ignores when that is done by the other.


Where I am, the unvaxxed still outnumber the vaxxed in hospital. A little thinking goes a long way in these issues. I have yet to see the anti-vaxxers--here and on social media--apply some simple critical thinking to see why such statements are misleading and show a lack of understanding in how science, viruses, and human behaviour work.

We already have an example of your critical thinking when you told us that agents working on behalf of the state shouldn't face consequences for doing so. The state commands some to live by the sword. They don't get an exemption from God for being in that role just because they are doing it for a country. You weren't able to use your critical thinking skills and put that together instead of emotionally supporting what you probably think is an extension of God's hand but isn't.

There is no reason for me not to assume you are taking the same liberties with anything sciency.

 

[eddif]

Say what? If you want a different analogy, you put on slightly worn tires instead of continuing to drive on tires with no tread. That way the risk is much, much smaller to both you and your passengers.

Factory tires replaced

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1978/10/19/firestone-and-us-agree-on-recall-of-9-million-radials/60351148-a878-490e-aeda-df745b013bc2/

Then their replacement

Firestone 721 Vehicle Tire Consumer Complaints

Firestone 721 Vehicle Tire Consumer Complaints

www.vehicletire.com

What if you found a replacement set of tires that were defective enough to not hold air, and failed at speed.

eddif

 

[Free]

We already have an example of your critical thinking when you told us that agents working on behalf of the state shouldn't face consequences for doing so. The state commands some to live by the sword. They don't get an exemption from God for being in that role just because they are doing it for a country. You weren't able to use your critical thinking skills and put that together instead of emotionally supporting what you probably think is an extension of God's hand but isn't.

There is no reason for me not to assume you are taking the same liberties with anything sciency.

I can't even begin to address this without context. To what post are you referring?

 

[WIP]

What is the source of this information?

The CDC reports that

• estimated 1 in 4 (25%) of all covid cases are actually reported.
• estimated 1 in 3.4 (29%) of reported cases are symptomatic. In other words, 71% of reported cases were either asymptomatic, meaning they have no symptoms, or minor symptoms and if roughly 75% of all cases are not reported, it is reasonable to assume a large majority of those are asymptomatic or had only minor symptoms as well because if they had major symptoms they would have likely sought medical help and a report would have been made.

• https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html

 

[Northman]

It is not a lie, so please stop with this type of rhetoric. It has been proven time and time again that the vaccine greatly reduces severe illness. When you deny this, you call people like me a liar, and that goes against our TOS.

The issue is the "definition change". So up til now, you could get your shot for tetanus/hep/rabies/whatever and it all worked, as in prevented you from getting it. What we have now is something that doesn't prevent. That's how most people who's memories extend before these last two years works. So yes, they are correct when they call someone a liar who says the covid vaccine "works". They haven't subscribed to the definition change, aren't "moving forward" with it, and are planting their feet. This is a good thing.

Voices like the one you reacted to are going to do nothing but get louder, not sit down because they were told.

 

[eddif]

By the way. I am through with the tire thing.

I would like to see vaccines recalled for trouble complaints.

eddif

 

[WIP]

The CDC reports that

• estimated 1 in 4 (25%) of all covid cases are actually reported.
• estimated 1 in 3.4 (29%) of reported cases are symptomatic. In other words, 71% of reported cases were either asymptomatic, meaning they have no symptoms, or minor symptoms and if roughly 75% of all cases are not reported, it is reasonable to assume a large majority of those are asymptomatic or had only minor symptoms as well because if they had major symptoms they would have likely sought medical help and a report would have been made.

• https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html

I can absolutely believe that only 25% of all Covid cases are reported. Healthy people aren't testing regularly just to find out if they've been infected. From the get-go the CDC has been saying that it was estimated that over 50% of all Covid cases are asymptomatic. Unless people are randomly tested regularly, like maybe weekly, and they contract the virus asymptomatically, it would go unreported. Then there are the minor symptomatic cases. I'm a good example of that.

Last spring one day I began to have cold-like symptoms. After a couple days, I contacted my clinic to see if maybe I should be tested. I was told that based on my symptoms I most likely did not have it but I could get tested if I wanted to anyway to be sure but unless I get seriously ill there wasn't much they could do for me anyhow. So I chose to not get tested at that time. We were in lockdown, I live on a farm, and I don't get to town much so I was basically isolated as it was. If I had Covid, it was an unreported case.

In August of this year unknown to me I became infected. My symptoms were very minor cold-like symptoms (fatigue, minor muscle aches, low grade fever). Had it not been that I was working with my neighbor who began to feel similar symptoms and was tested positive, I would not have been tested and again my case would have been unreported. One thing I found out was that my clinic would not test me unless I scheduled a doctor's office visit so it cost me to get tested even though the test is free for me. I only recently learned that there are tests available at Walgreens without having to pay for an office visit.

Two weeks ago I again had cold-like symptoms. I chose to isolate just in case but the symptoms were minor (stuffy nose and congestive cough mostly) and I did not get tested. I have since learned that the Omicron variant commonly has those symptoms so it is possible I have already been exposed and contracted the Omicron variant.

How many people decide not to get tested unless they are really feeling sick or they know they were exposed?

 

[stovebolts]

Which is worse? Having a reaction to the vaccine (mild to moderate discomfort for a few days) or being hospitalized, with severe pain and possibly death?

I think your not recognizing that the vaccine is not without risk. In some rare cases, the vaccine can cause hospitalization, severe pain and death.

I believe that the risk of having an adverse reaction to the vaccine is less risky than having the same adverse risks due to Covid, so for some like yourself, it was an easy decision to make.

We all come from different backgrounds, so we weigh risks differently. We most often think that bad things only happen to “Them”, but if you go through enough “bad things” you realize that nobody is exempt and your view changes. Instead of “it only happens to them”, one can think, “What prevents that from happening to me?”

From this perspective, many choose based on what they think they can control, and what other people choose in the matter should be respected.

 

[stovebolts]

he issue is the "definition change". So up til now, you could get your shot for tetanus/hep/rabies/whatever and it all worked, as in prevented you from getting it. What we have now is something that doesn't prevent.

I don’t understand “definition change”. Is that some new buzzword?

As far as the rest of what I have quoted, your straining gnats. Prior to Omicron, the vaccination has prevented millions of people from getting Covid.

Nowhere (from reputable sources) has it ever been claimed the vaccine was 100% effective. Nobody has ever denied that there have been breakthrough cases.

Blanket statements where the word “prevents” is used in terms of an absolute is dishonest.

Does the vaccine protect 100%? The answer is no.
Does 100% of those who received the vaccination get Covid? The answer is no.

Half truths are as good as a lie.

So yes, they are correct when they call someone a liar who says the covid vaccine "works".

Again, this is based on an absolute, which is not true.
What if I went around calling you a liar because from my experience, the vaccine has prevented Covid from infecting me? My wife got Covid and was hospitalized. She would have liost her life. I took care of her when she was still infected.
My Father had Covid, and I cared for him in hospice during his recovery. (I lived with him). My son who lives in our home got Covid. And there are more examples I could give. And yes, I work from home and cared for my son. Actually, he got Covid from his sister during my Dads funeral. Everyone at that gathering got Covid except those of us that got vaccinated. (With the exception of my sister who has bone cancer and just got out of marrow transplant and chemo). Her symptoms were mild.

In short, I know the vaccine protected me from getting Covid.

Does the vaccine protect everyone from getting Covid?
No. My Dad who was in hospice due to cancer got Covid, as did my sister who also has cancer. Both had minor symptoms due to Covid.

As a result, you will have a very hard time calling me a liar, and honestly, I won’t tolerate it. In the same breath, you won’t hear me calling you or others a liar either.

Voices like the one you reacted to are going to do nothing but get louder, not sit down because they were told.

And when somebody violates the TOS, they are issued warning points. If they continue, they get banned from the thread.

We can discuss many topics here, but when we start to argue for the sake of argument and we create and fuel an aggressive environment, we’ll, that’s where I and staff step in and attempt to unify the body and weed out those who only want to bring strife.