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The Crucifix Cross

Pard

Pard

Member
OK, so maybe I am totally over-analyzing this but...

Why does the catholic cross depict Jesus on it? (I think other groups have this also, not just the catholics, but they are the ones that come to mind) It seems to me that Jesus isn't on that cross any more! Christianity began AFTER He came down from the cross. The cross ought to be empty.

Is there a symbolic reason that the RCC (and maybe others) have Jesus on the cross still? Or am I just over thinking this?:confused:
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

Pard said:
OK, so maybe I am totally over-analyzing this but...

Why does the catholic cross depict Jesus on it? (I think other groups have this also, not just the catholics, but they are the ones that come to mind) It seems to me that Jesus isn't on that cross any more! Christianity began AFTER He came down from the cross. The cross ought to be empty.

Is there a symbolic reason that the RCC (and maybe others) have Jesus on the cross still? Or am I just over thinking this?:confused:
Click to expand...

Like Paul, we preach Christ crucified. It apparently is still a scandal to some...

The crucified Christ best shows the love God has for man. The depths that God is willing to go to save us. The empty cross doesn't show God's Love for man in the same way. It shows God's victory over death - but says nothing directly about God's Love for man. One must go to the Crucified Christ to see that.

Regards
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

francisdesales said:
Like Paul, we preach Christ crucified. It apparently is still a scandal to some...

The crucified Christ best shows the love God has for man. The depths that God is willing to go to save us. The empty cross doesn't show God's Love for man in the same way. It shows God's victory over death - but says nothing directly about God's Love for man. One must go to the Crucified Christ to see that.

Regards
Click to expand...
I thought it was just that purpetual catholic guilt thing, but anyway I do like your answer, now why do catholic pray to Mother Mary? whats that all about?

edited to add my prefrance is no body on the Cross.
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

francisdesales said:
Like Paul, we preach Christ crucified. It apparently is still a scandal to some...

The crucified Christ best shows the love God has for man. The depths that God is willing to go to save us. The empty cross doesn't show God's Love for man in the same way. It shows God's victory over death - but says nothing directly about God's Love for man. One must go to the Crucified Christ to see that.

Regards
Click to expand...
I'll ignore that "scandal" bit. ;)

Thanks "Fran" (sorry I couldn't help it, when Elijah said that I cracked up)!

And now this thread is over. Shortest thread in CF history? Perhaps...

EDIT

I guess not. Thanks a lot taromina! :D
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

Nope, thread not quite over....

We Lutherans have a crucifix as well. Some Lutheran churches took the crucifix away...not wanting to appear "too Catholic" but many of the Lutheran churches are bringing crucifixes back...for just the reason why Joe said: Nothing can compare to the depth of love that God has for us than Christ's suffering on the cross.

Just out of curiosity Joe, I know that on Easter, we have a procession which brings in an empty cross...does the Catholic church do this as well?
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

handy said:
Nope, thread not quite over....

We Lutherans have a crucifix as well.
Click to expand...

In all my years in the Lutheran church (LCMS) I have never seen Christ crucified on the cross. The closest thing I've seen is the Risen Christ superimposed on the cross with His arms stretched up.

Two reasons why this is significant to me. 1 - We celebrate His Resurrection and victory over death; not His death. 2 - Anyone could die on a cross, but only God could proclaim victory over it.

While I see value in remembering His state upon His death, especially as Resurrection Sunday draws near, the reason I reflect upon the cross all year long is to proclaim the victory that I have in Him. Besides, I don't know why the cross itself can't be a reminder of His death AND Resurrection. My personal opinion is that I find the image of the crucified Christ depressing. I see the cross itself or with the Risen Lord as... Wow!!!
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

With the Reformed background I have, the very fact of an image was taboo...(always wondered why the cross itself wasn't considered an "image" but that's a different thread)...so I have to admit that seeing a crucifix in church is something that I only associate with Catholics and with the Lutheran church.

Our pastor is among those in the LCMS that is trying to restore many things taken away over the years for being "too Catholic" and the Crucifix is one of them. From the history that he is working on, with others, it seems as if many things were taken out of the American Lutheran church during the war as well, just to put more distance between us and the Germans.

It's not the only Lutheran church I know of that has the crucifix...at least one other here in Idaho uses the crucifix on Easter...they actually borrow it from the Catholic church across the street from them as the Catholics use a cross on Easter...and, in the ELCA that I was part of prior to the LCMS, the pastor would bring a crucifix in during different times as well.

Preaching Christ crucified is quite biblical, as well as preaching the resurrected Christ. But, I tend to agree with Joe, nothing brings home God's love for us than the death on the cross...as Paul stated to the Romans, "God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

I would surmise one reason why the thought of Christ on the cross is depressing is because it brings it home that His death was due to our sin...not a cheery thought at all. I don't know if your church follows the same liturgy as ours, but every Divine Service starts out with Confession and Absolution and wraps up with Communion, all made possible by the death on the cross, so having the crucifix there does seem most appropriate. It does indeed serve as a powerful visual reminder while confessing and seeking forgiveness, as well as taking in His broken body and his shed blood, just what it cost Him.

It truly is in how one looks at it...


Just on a wholly personal note: I'm really not into the Risen Christ superimposed on the cross. Not making any kind of deal out of it...just to me, it's not quite right...Christ rose from the tomb, not from the cross. I know, I know, nit-picky! I believe in there being freedom in using these symbols or not using any symbol at all if one so chooses.
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

I prefer the shrouded cross or some variation of it. To be totally honest I do prefer the empty cross with the crown of thorns resting on the top. It brings the whole picture home, for me. Jesus did die for our sins and we ought to be mindful of that, yes, however at the same time, Jesus isn't dead any longer! He has Risen and sits by His Father's side in Heaven.

I do not know the kind of church, but we have one in town that uses this for a cross and I always smile when I see it out in front of their building.

It looks something like this:
View attachment 1927
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

taromina2003 said:
I thought it was just that purpetual catholic guilt thing, but anyway I do like your answer, now why do catholic pray to Mother Mary? whats that all about?

edited to add my prefrance is no body on the Cross.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the idea of "pray to Mary" gives the wrong impression of what we are doing. Coupled with a person kneeling in front of a statue, saying some "gooie" things, it is easy for someone not Catholic to misconstrue this, as if Mary was the 4th person of the Godhead...

Of course, Mary is a creature. Our prayers "to her" are in the same sense of my prayers to you, asking you to intercede for me to Christ, say, for the sake of my daughther in the hospital or my wife undergoing a medical procedure. We ask fellow Christians to pray for us, or pray for people we love. Paul points out several such examples of asking for the prayers of others, and his prayers for the sake of others. Christians, being lovers of others, do not find praying for others distasteful, nor do we say "go pray for yourself, I'm only concerned about me. Just go ask Jesus."... It just doesn't sound right...

Mary, being the Mother of God, has always been considered a powerful intercessor (going back to the days of Solomon, when the Queen was the King's mother, not his wife)m and to us, that is what she is. TO God, we give worship and offer sacrifice. Mary is not worshiped as God, nor do we offer sacrifice to her (the Mass is a sacrifice, and is offered to the Father, with the Son and through the Spirit. Mary is among the saints we ask to pray for us.)

Regards
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

Pard said:
I'll ignore that "scandal" bit. ;)

Thanks "Fran" (sorry I couldn't help it, when Elijah said that I cracked up)!

And now this thread is over. Shortest thread in CF history? Perhaps...

EDIT

I guess not. Thanks a lot taromina! :D
Click to expand...

OK, sorry about the scandal - the question initially appeared to be condescending, but it appears it wasn't.

Yes, Elijah cracks me up, too, but probably in different ways... ;)

Regards
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

handy said:
Nope, thread not quite over....

We Lutherans have a crucifix as well. Some Lutheran churches took the crucifix away...not wanting to appear "too Catholic" but many of the Lutheran churches are bringing crucifixes back...for just the reason why Joe said: Nothing can compare to the depth of love that God has for us than Christ's suffering on the cross.

Just out of curiosity Joe, I know that on Easter, we have a procession which brings in an empty cross...does the Catholic church do this as well?
Click to expand...

Handy,

Each Catholic community may be different on that.

We process into the church with an Easter candle during the beginning of the Easter Vigil, which represents Christ, the Light of the world. In ancient commentaries, the church building represented Paradise, and so Christ leads us into Paradise, through Baptism (lots of rich symbolism going on for Easter Vigil!)

On Good Friday, all crosses are shrouded (save one), as we recall our Lord on the cross. But for Easter, we don't use an empty cross. I suppose some Catholic communities may indeed do that, but my church doesn't.

Regards
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

Pard said:
I prefer the shrouded cross or some variation of it. To be totally honest I do prefer the empty cross with the crown of thorns resting on the top. It brings the whole picture home, for me. Jesus did die for our sins and we ought to be mindful of that, yes, however at the same time, Jesus isn't dead any longer! He has Risen and sits by His Father's side in Heaven.

I do not know the kind of church, but we have one in town that uses this for a cross and I always smile when I see it out in front of their building.

It looks something like this:
View attachment 2175
Click to expand...

That doesn't bring tears to my eyes, as a life-sized corpus on the Cross and a smile to my mind when I contemplate how much I am loved - TO THE END.

Regards
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

I find it amusing, and I've been hearing it for 30+ years, when a "fundamental" or baptist preacher says that the Catholics don't beleive in a risen Jesus, because "they still have Him on the cross".

It seems that having Christ on the cross IS a bit "in your face", but what they are doing is being "in your face" about the TRUTH of the gospel!

So, yea, it took some getting used to for me to sit in mass a week ago with Jesus on a cross in the room! I still like seeing an EMPTY cross.

On the other hand, there are other things that Catholics do that impress me, like how they get into the fight against abortion so publicly.

There ARE differences between my baptist background and the Catholics ... but there is much more that unites us.
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

francisdesales said:
Of course, Mary is a creature. Our prayers "to her" are in the same sense of my prayers to you, asking you to intercede for me to Christ, say, for the sake of my daughther in the hospital or my wife undergoing a medical procedure. We ask fellow Christians to pray for us, or pray for people we love. Paul points out several such examples of asking for the prayers of others, and his prayers for the sake of others. Christians, being lovers of others, do not find praying for others distasteful, nor do we say "go pray for yourself, I'm only concerned about me. Just go ask Jesus."... It just doesn't sound right...
Click to expand...

Hmmmm, this may be going off thread a bit but since it was brought up in this thread, and it has not been addressed, thereby possibly leaving a questionable impression with the readers, I must seek clarity . . .

The statement on the onset (and example) sounds good. However, Mary is now on the otherside of eternity. If I were to agree with your summation, then would it be fair to say it is alright to ask one's long since deceased, godly, prayer warrior grandmother to pray and intercede for them in times of struggles?

Why? or Why not?


Be blessed, Stay blessed!
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

jasoncran said:
hmm the irish cross looks a lot like pards.
Click to expand...

Celtic cross? Yeah. It's based on a celtic sign. They just elongated the bottom line and BOOM, cross. It stands for the various elements anf the circle means the sun.
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

Pard said:
Celtic cross? Yeah. It's based on a celtic sign. They just elongated the bottom line and BOOM, cross. It stands for the various elements anf the circle means the sun.
Click to expand...
no that cross look at the picture. the one you think of is used for navigation and is very accurate.
 
Re: The Catholic Cross

No I got that tidbit from elsewhere. Looking for something that supports it.
 
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