The Deity of Christ

[Arial]

Gal 4:4-5 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

The Trinity is a core and necessary doctrine unique to Christianity. Any religion that teaches otherwise is not Orthodox Christianity by definition.

Why is it necessary? And why must Jesus be both God and man, two natures never mixed together in order to bring about redemption? Aside from the fact that the Bible tells us this is the case, the entire idea of the atonement for sins falls on its face without the deity of Christ. And we shall see how. Take any one of the ingredients out, and the atonement crumbles.

In the passage above there are a couple of key statements that find their source or reference in the OT, and tie the entire Bible together as what it is----the history of redemption with the person and work of Jesus never leaving center stage. And these are, "the fullness of time" and "born under the law".

First we have to take a quick look at what it means to have Adam as the federal headship of all mankind. Though the phrase federal headship is not found in Scripture, the concept is there and not only clear, but necessary. An analogy of headship that is easy to understand: The US government has a federal head, the President. If he declares a national emergency, then all of the citizens are in a state of emergency. Though not perfect, as no human based analogy of God can be perfect, it presents the principle of federal headship. Adam, being the first man created stood as the representative of all mankind. Adam sinned, and just as Levi was in the loins of Abraham (Heb 7:9-10)so too are all of us (humans) in the loins of Adam. We inherit his sin nature which is why we sin, and are guilty before God by having that nature. And this presents a two fold problem that needs to be resolved in redemption. Our nature and our sins.

It stands to reason and logic then, that we need other than ourselves to redeem us. We need a substitute to take our place who is able to effect the sentence of death on sin and conquer its power. The sinner needs someone who can take them out of Adam and unrighteousness and bring them into perfect righteousness by virtue of that one's own actions, and at the same time and in the same way, pay the just debt for the forgiveness of our own sins. We need a rescuer who will change who we are before God, a sinner, and cleanse us of all unrighteousness so that we can come into the presence of God. Someone who can impute his righteousness to us. The reversal of what happened with Adam. This can only be done by someone who is not born a natural birth as that would put him in Adam. But who is also of the same type (human) of those he lays down his life for. Rams and bulls cannot do it. Angels cannot do it.

Continued in Part 2

 

[Arial]

The Deity of Christ Part 2

So now we go back to our posted scripture and the two phrases in it; "in the fullness of time" and "born under the law". I amend my original statement to add a third crucial phrase; "born of a woman."

In Gen 3 we have the record of the tragic fall of mankind and we have in verse 15, God cursing the serpent and making a promise. This is in fact a declaration of war, not on humanity ultimately, but on the serpent, Satan, and the victory announced to him and to us, right from the beginning of what will follow----the history of redemption. "I will put enmity between you and the woman. and between your seed and her seed; he shall crush your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

God does not say when this will happen. In Gal 4:4-5 Paul tells us when this Seed of the woman did arrive and who he is, and interpreting the fulfillment of certain OT prophecies. "In the fullness of time...". That baby in the manger in Bethlehem was the dawning of the new day. It was the day when God was with us.

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. (Is 9:6)

Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (Is 7:14) Immanuel means God with us. Imagine! God with us, born of a woman.

And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flicks at night. An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid, I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger." (Luke)

We have already touched on why the Savior had to be born of a woman in the OP. To summarize, this Savior who would substitute himself in the place of sinners had to be of the same kind as those he took the place of---humans---and to fulfill the promise of Gen 3, the seed of a woman. At the same time he could not be the seed of Adam (man as gender). The birth could not be natural but must be miraculous. The birth of humans is the most natural thing there is. It happens every minute of every day. And though wonderful, it is not a miracle. This Savior had to be born a miraculous birth and only God can enact miracles---that which is outside the natural. God had to father the Savior and we see in the visitation of Gabrielle with Mary, that he would do just that. The Holy Spirit (who now we see incidentally must also be God) would overshadow the virgin and she would conceive. In addition, this Savior had to himself possess what he would give---eternal life to a cleansed sinner. He had to be the Son of God and the Son of man.

To shorten the length of each post, I will continue in Part 3 with the importance of "born under the law."

 

[Arial]

The Deity of Christ Part 3

" born under the law"

Why is this so crucial to redemption of sinners?

Perfect righteousness is required by God as the Creator and since man is created in the image and likeness of God. That means, among other things, that we are to bear his image as to moral character in all our dealings, both with the natural world he made for us and in our dealings with one another. We are required to be perfectly obedient to him in all our ways. We can't do that. We cannot undo our own sins or remove our status of having that nature to sin that came from Adam's disobedience and the knowledge of evil as well as good.

The one who is sent to reverse that condition must himself work all obedience as one of us. So he must be born under the legal code of the Sinai covenant, but even more than that, all the moral code that is contained in it. Jesus points out in his teaching to the Jews who were also born under this law, the many ways they fall short of meeting the moral aspects of the law of God or even recognizing them. The law of God is more than rote adherence to stipulated rules. He would say things like, "If a man looks on a woman with lust, he has committed adultery with her already." He points out that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath while the Pharisees taught that even healing a man on the Sabbath was breaking the law. He taught that nothing a man ate defiled him but his actions and words defiled him because they came from his heart; that not washing before eating did not defile a man when the teachers of Israel were teaching the opposite.

Jesus was dealing with the heart of man, that thing we inherited from Adam, and not just the outward appearance. So, Jesus had to be born under the law, that is subject to it, in all he said and did, both outwardly and inwardly in order to be perfectly righteous. (This is all summarized in the ten commandments.) It is the only way he could qualify as the one to take away our guilt and the guilt inherited from Adam, and defeat their power and ultimately, destroy evil entirely, restoring all of creation.

He cannot be only a good man, only a prophet, or only a teacher. A "good" man never changed anyone's standing before God simply by being a good man and dying on the cross. A human only prophet never changed and could not change the heart or conscience of any one by dying on the cross. None throughout the entire history of redemption did so--not even Moses. And what could a teacher that was only human teach that would change the seed of Adam in him. Or wash away the sins of countless sinners by dying on a cross? Only God can do those things and his justice must not be set aside to do it. Only God come in the flesh, in the likeness of men, can do such a thing.

Jesus did for the law, what the law could not do.

Heb 10:1-3 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 12-14 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

His righteousness is imputed to those placed in him through faith. The curse reversed.
2 Cor 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

1 Cor 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Hi Arial. Thank you for starting a post about the Deity of Christ. I have read in this forum many posts questioning the Deity of Christ and I think it's inportant for the faithful in Christ to make a firm stand on the subject.

For me, it all clicks with John 5:39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me." By scriptures at the time Christ was referring to the Old Testament and He plainly states that Old Testament bears witness to his Divinity. For example in Zechariah 12:10 we have "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn."

Anyway, I know we had some disagreement too yesterday but I would like to thank you again for starting this thread.

Blessings!

 

[JLB]

For example in Zechariah 12:10 we have "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn."

What a beautiful verse. I’m probably guilty of over-using it to show that Jesus was indeed the LORD God of the Old Testament. Not God the Father but the Son.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
1 Peter 1:10-11

The Spirit of Christ; the Spirit of the LORD (YHWH) is who was in the Old Testament prophets saying… “thus says the LORD”.




JLB

 

[tigger II]

What a beautiful verse. I’m probably guilty of over-using it to show that Jesus was indeed the LORD God of the Old Testament. Not God the Father but the Son.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
1 Peter 1:10-11

The Spirit of Christ; the Spirit of the LORD (YHWH) is who was in the Old Testament prophets saying… “thus says the LORD”.




JLB

..........................................
Zechariah 12:10
Jehovah God speaks:

"...they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son" - Zech. 12:10, KJV; cf. NKJV, NIV, NASB, NEB, REB, ASV, AB, KJIIV, ETRV, Douay, Beck, Rotherham, Lamsa.

This is interpreted by many trinitarians as meaning that Jehovah is Jesus since Jesus was "pierced" by the Jews.

Unfortunately for this trinitarian interpretation even many trinitarian translations disagree:

"...when they look upon him whom they have pierced" - RSV. Also in agreement with this rendering are NRSV; GNB; MLB; NAB (1970); NAB (1991); LB; Mo; AT; JB; NJB; NLV; BBE; and Byington. (ASV says in a footnote for "me" in Zech. 12:10: "According to some MSS. [manuscripts], `him'." Also see Rotherham footnote.)

Even the context tells us that the latter rendering is the correct one. Notice that after saying that they will look upon me (or him) God continues with "they shall mourn for HIM"! Notice how the KJV (and those following its tradition) contradicts itself here. The "me" in the first half simply does not agree with the "him" of the second half. Since there has never been any question about the accuracy of the word "him" in the second half, the disputed word of the first half (which has manuscript evidence for both renderings) must also properly be rendered as "him" (or "the one").

The testimony of the first Christian writers to come after the NT writers (the `Ante-Nicene Fathers') confirms the non-trinitarian translation of Zechariah 12:10 ("him"). Ignatius, Irenaeus, and Tertullian (repeatedly) rendered Zech. 12:10 as "him whom they pierced"! This is specially significant because trinitarian scholars and historians claim these particular early Christians (including Origen who doesn't quote Zech. 12:10 at all in his existing writings) are the very ones who actually began the development of the trinity doctrine for Christendom! If any of the earliest Christian writers, then, would use a trinitarian interpretation here, it would certainly be these three. Since they do not do so, it must mean that the source for the `look upon me' translation originated even later than the time of Ignatius, Irenaeus, and Tertullian (early 3rd century A.D.)!

Included in those very early Christian writers' quotes of Zech. 12:10 is Justin Martyr I. Apol., i. 77, who also quotes it as it is found in John.

The OT Greek Septuagint uses "me" (in existing copies, at least - 4th century A.D. and later), but it is significantly different from the Hebrew text: "They shall look upon me, because they have mocked me, and they shall make lamentation for him, as for a beloved [friend], and they shall grieve intensely, as for a firstborn [son]." - Zech. 12:10, Septuagint, Zondervan, 1976 printing. In other words, (1) they will look upon God whom they have mocked [not "pierced"] as their judgment arrives and (2) they will mourn Christ. The two are not the same person here, nor the same God!

According to The Expositor's Greek Testament, : John's translation of Zech. 12:10 is the correct one. "The same rendering is adopted in the Greek [OT] versions of Aquila, Theodotion, and Symmachus" - vol. 1, p. 860.

"The [Hebrew] text of Zech. 12:10 is corrupt. The [Greek] LXX text reads: ... (`they shall look upon me whom they have treated spitefully') .... The text in [Jn 19:37] does not follow the LXX; but it has also avoided the impossible [`me'] of the Hebrew text." - p. 195, John 2, Ernst Haenchen, Fortress Press, 1984.

But most important of all is John 19:37 (even in the KJV) where this scripture has been quoted by John! All translations show John here translating Zech. 12:10 as "They shall look upon him [or `the one'] whom they pierced." So we have this Apostle and inspired Bible writer telling us plainly (and undisputed even by trinitarian scholars) that Zechariah 12:10 should read: "They shall look upon him (not `me')." Therefore, Jehovah is speaking in Zech. 12:10 of someone else who will be pierced - not Himself!

 

[JLB]

This is interpreted by many trinitarians as meaning that Jehovah is Jesus since Jesus was "pierced" by the Jews.

The Old Testament transliteration is YHWH.

Yes. The New Testament revelation is Jesus Christ is LORD.


Let’s look at one in particular that ties into the text of Zechariah 12.


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10

The Son is identified as LORD; YHWH the LORD God.

This passage plainly states that the Son, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

Now we will identify who was speaking through the mouth of Zechariah by the writer of the book of Hebrews as well as Peter.

The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:,
Zechariah 12:1

• The Son is the One who in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands

The Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of the LORD, is who scripture says spoke through the mouth of the Old Testament prophets.

• the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
1 Peter 1:10-11

 

[JLB]

Therefore, Jehovah is speaking in Zech. 12:10 of someone else who will be pierced - not Himself!

The Spirit of Christ as YHWH is speaking forth the sufferings He would endure as the Man Jesus Christ.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

..........................................
Zechariah 12:10
Jehovah God speaks:

"...they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son" - Zech. 12:10, KJV; cf. NKJV, NIV, NASB, NEB, REB, ASV, AB, KJIIV, ETRV, Douay, Beck, Rotherham, Lamsa.

This is interpreted by many trinitarians as meaning that Jehovah is Jesus since Jesus was "pierced" by the Jews.

Unfortunately for this trinitarian interpretation even many trinitarian translations disagree:

"...when they look upon him whom they have pierced" - RSV. Also in agreement with this rendering are NRSV; GNB; MLB; NAB (1970); NAB (1991); LB; Mo; AT; JB; NJB; NLV; BBE; and Byington. (ASV says in a footnote for "me" in Zech. 12:10: "According to some MSS. [manuscripts], `him'." Also see Rotherham footnote.)

Even the context tells us that the latter rendering is the correct one. Notice that after saying that they will look upon me (or him) God continues with "they shall mourn for HIM"! Notice how the KJV (and those following its tradition) contradicts itself here. The "me" in the first half simply does not agree with the "him" of the second half. Since there has never been any question about the accuracy of the word "him" in the second half, the disputed word of the first half (which has manuscript evidence for both renderings) must also properly be rendered as "him" (or "the one").

The testimony of the first Christian writers to come after the NT writers (the `Ante-Nicene Fathers') confirms the non-trinitarian translation of Zechariah 12:10 ("him"). Ignatius, Irenaeus, and Tertullian (repeatedly) rendered Zech. 12:10 as "him whom they pierced"! This is specially significant because trinitarian scholars and historians claim these particular early Christians (including Origen who doesn't quote Zech. 12:10 at all in his existing writings) are the very ones who actually began the development of the trinity doctrine for Christendom! If any of the earliest Christian writers, then, would use a trinitarian interpretation here, it would certainly be these three. Since they do not do so, it must mean that the source for the `look upon me' translation originated even later than the time of Ignatius, Irenaeus, and Tertullian (early 3rd century A.D.)!

Included in those very early Christian writers' quotes of Zech. 12:10 is Justin Martyr I. Apol., i. 77, who also quotes it as it is found in John.

The OT Greek Septuagint uses "me" (in existing copies, at least - 4th century A.D. and later), but it is significantly different from the Hebrew text: "They shall look upon me, because they have mocked me, and they shall make lamentation for him, as for a beloved [friend], and they shall grieve intensely, as for a firstborn [son]." - Zech. 12:10, Septuagint, Zondervan, 1976 printing. In other words, (1) they will look upon God whom they have mocked [not "pierced"] as their judgment arrives and (2) they will mourn Christ. The two are not the same person here, nor the same God!

According to The Expositor's Greek Testament, : John's translation of Zech. 12:10 is the correct one. "The same rendering is adopted in the Greek [OT] versions of Aquila, Theodotion, and Symmachus" - vol. 1, p. 860.

"The [Hebrew] text of Zech. 12:10 is corrupt. The [Greek] LXX text reads: ... (`they shall look upon me whom they have treated spitefully') .... The text in [Jn 19:37] does not follow the LXX; but it has also avoided the impossible [`me'] of the Hebrew text." - p. 195, John 2, Ernst Haenchen, Fortress Press, 1984.

But most important of all is John 19:37 (even in the KJV) where this scripture has been quoted by John! All translations show John here translating Zech. 12:10 as "They shall look upon him [or `the one'] whom they pierced." So we have this Apostle and inspired Bible writer telling us plainly (and undisputed even by trinitarian scholars) that Zechariah 12:10 should read: "They shall look upon him (not `me')." Therefore, Jehovah is speaking in Zech. 12:10 of someone else who will be pierced - not Himself!

Personally, I use ESV but also the Orthodox Jewish Bible renders Zechariah 12:10 like this "And I will pour upon the Bais Dovid, and upon the inhabitants of Yerushalayim, the Ruach (Spirit) of Chen (grace) and of Tachanunim (supplications for favor); and they shall look upon Me whom they have pierced [dakar, "pierce through" cf. Yeshayah 53:5; Targum HaShivim Tehillim 22:17], and they shall mourn for Him (Moshiach) as one mourneth for his yachid (only son), and shall grieve in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his bechor (firstborn)."

Also context is also important in John 19:37. John is talking about Christ while Zechariah 12:10 is the word of the Lord about what the Lord shall do. So of course instead of using Me John uses Him. Otherwise John would be referring to himself in John 19:37.

Anyway, you do and think as you please. I do not care about labels like Trinitarian etc, for I only follow the teachings of scripture and not denominations of men. As a faithful in Christ, I know from scripture that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit in one. If you disagree that is fine by me.

Also, on his presence on Earth 2000 years ago Christ was both mortal and divine. It makes sense to me that the divine part be characterized as I or Me while mortal part be characterized as He or Him. Yet this distinction is lost on so many.

By the way sorry JLB I did not mean to reply on your behalf, I just thought I add more of my own material in reply to the points raised by tigger II.

One last thing. From our mortal perspective salvation can only be understood in terms of a triune God. We repent of our sins (by admitting we were deviating from the way of the Father), we believe the gospel of Christ about the coming Kingdom of God (by acknowledging Christ as our Savior and only through Him we have immortality) and then we are sealed or sanctified (with the Holy Spirit). It's that simple for truth is simple. On the other hand long theses about nature of God that resemble secular babblings just lead people astray.

 

[JLB]

By the way sorry JLB I did not mean to reply on your behalf, I just thought I add more of my own material in reply to the points raised by tigger II.

Amen.