If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse. Job 9:20
I honestly don't know what you are talking about, but you 'seem' to be making a judgment call.
Bible Study what does it mean to be born again?
- Thread starter leroy
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse. Job 9:20
You can't justify yourself.
But are you not justified by Christ ?
What does it say about you when you say you are still imperfect in regard to sinning ?
Are you still a servant of sin ?
Or are you a servant of God ?
No man can serve two masters.
You read what ever you will into what I have written but you have not discovered my heart. There are politicians who thrive on projection.
It would seem you have not read all my postings. If you had you would not ask this question. Contentiousness in not becoming.
Colossians 1:18
18 And he [Christ] is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Revelation 1:5
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
The idea of Christ being the "firstborn from the dead" is not that he was spiritually reborn in the manner of the second birth of which Jesus spoke in John 3:3-7, but that he was the first to be raised from the dead in a glorified state, never to die again. Figuratively, he was the first to be "born" from the "womb" of the grave in the way he was, but he was never "born again" by the Spirit, as all entirely human children of God must be, washed, regenerated and indwelt by the Spirit (Titus 3:5). Only lost sinners are redeemed, justified and sanctified by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 1:2, 30) who reconciles them to God by making them his "temples" (1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19-20). Jesus was never lost, he never sinned, and he never required redemption, forgiveness or cleansing. Instead, he was the perfect "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29).
Jesus was not "born again" in the John 3:3 sense. See above.
No, Jesus was the God-Man; he was not the Man-God, his humanity greater than his divinity, nor was he just a man who rose to a divine state. As such, as the God-Man, he was incapable of being deceived by the devil, or of yielding to the temptation to sin. His human nature could be tempted, yes; Jesus endured the full force of fleshly impulses, never yielding to them and thus was never relieved of their pressure, being "tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin" (Hebrews 4:15). But he never could have, as a result of the "sophistry of Satan," yielded to sin because in his God-nature he could not be overcome by such means, as he demonstrated in Matthew 4.
At no time did Satan have any sort of victory over Jesus. Never was the devil superior to his Maker, who was Jesus (John 1:1-4; Colossians 1:16-17).
Also, Jesus had not inherited the fallen nature of Adam since he had not been conceived by the union of the seed of a male descendant of Adam with a woman's egg. Jesus was "born of a virgin" who was made pregnant by the Holy Spirit. Jesus, then, never possessed a fallen human nature as you and I possess, though he was fully human, as well as fully God.
At his Ascension, Jesus returned to his heavenly glory that he'd set aside in order to be the sacrificial Lamb of God (Philippians 2:5-8). But at no time while he was on earth, was Jesus not God-in-the-flesh, nor was he a "creature" in the sense that we are, a created, contingent being. He was the Creator, not a creature, though he was incarnate:
John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
John 1:14 )
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
3 And He [Jesus Christ] is the radiance of His [God the Father's] glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Colossians 2:9-10
9 For in Him [Christ] all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
Matthew 17:1-6
1 Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves.
2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light.
3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
4 Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah."
5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!"
6 When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified.
Note: The last passage from Matthew 17 above happened before Jesus was crucified. He was, prior to the cross, acknowledged by God the Father as His well-pleasing Son. See also the account of Christ's baptism by John the Baptizer (Matthew 3:13-17) when God publicly affirmed Christ's deity. So it is not the case, therefore, that Jesus was made a "new creature," as you and I are as a consequence of being saved. We are saved by Jesus in whom we are made "new creatures" (2 Corinthians 5:17). To believe, then, that Jesus was made a "new creature" is to believe that he was made so in himself, which is an obviously nonsensical idea.
Continued below.
The word "destroyed" in Romans 6:6 is better rendered "abolished" or "made impotent." Katargeo (Gk.) from the roots kata and argeo - translated "destroyed" in the KJV - means to "render entirely useless," not "annihilate" or "remove from existence," as we might be tempted to think is the case when reading the word "destroyed." So, then, in verse 6, Paul wrote that the "old Self" is rendered inoperative, or powerless; it isn't utterly annihilated and gone.
"Dead," too, in the NT more often than not refers to separation, not merely the cessation of life, as we might typically understand "dead" or "death." This is evident even in the OT when Adam sinned and the Fall occurred. God had told Adam that in the day he ate of the Forbidden Fruit he would "die." But the story of the Fall in Genesis indicates that Adam didn't die physically; his life didn't cease in the day he ate of the fruit (he lived to be over 900 years old!). Instead, his sin separated him - and all coming after him - from God spiritually.
When a person dies, their soul is separated from their physical body but they do not cease to exist. See Luke 16:19-31.
When a person is sent to the "second death" in hell, they are separated from God for all eternity but they don't cease to exist. See Revelation 14:11; Matthew 25:46.
When Paul wrote "I die daily," he meant he lived in the death to Self of the crucified life (Matthew 16:24-25; John 12:24-25), by faith, living out daily the truth of his God-achieved separation from the control of the old Self, and living, instead, under the control of the Holy Spirit. He did not, obviously, mean he daily ceased to exist.
So, then, when Paul wrote in Romans 6 that all born-again believers are "dead to sin but alive unto God" (Romans 6:11), he did not mean to say that they were "dead to sin" in the sense that the source of all their sin, the "old Self," had ceased to exist, but only that the old, spiritually-unregenerate Self was rendered inoperative and impotent.
Remember, Paul began Romans 6 by indicating that the Christians to whom he was writing were not living according to the spiritual reality of their separation from the "old Self."
Romans 6:1-3
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
In writing this, Paul made it quite clear that Christians were not "dead to sin" in such a way as to make it impossible for them ever again to sin. The "old Self" had not ceased to exist; the believers at Rome had simply been liberated from its power. Any time, though, that they chose to yield to the control of the old Self, they would live in contradiction to the truth of their spiritual identity in Jesus Christ.
Does God believe things? If He does, it seems to me, we could infer that He does not have utter certainty about what it was He was believing. We believe that we aren't all in the Matrix, living a totally illusory life, or that our spouse isn't cheating on us, or that our dentist will not do a bad job of fixing our teeth, but we can't ever claim perfect certainty about any of these things. There is a chance - improbable though it is - that we are in some Matrix-like circumstance. Many have been the husbands and wives who were shocked to discover marital infidelity on the part of their spouse. A poorly-done filling, or root canal, is by no means unheard of. And so we say we believe things, if we're careful about our words, not that we are utterly certain of those things. Is it possible, though, for God to be truly omniscient and not have perfect certainty about everything? I can't see how. If there is anything that God doesn't know with such certainty, it seems to me He can't be said to be omniscient.
What does it mean, practically, to "walk by faith" in the truths and promises of God's word? Do you know?
What does it look like practically to "face all temptation when we live by every word He has spoken"?
Have you read Paul's first letter to the Christians at Corinth? Or his letter to the believers in the province of Galatia? Or chapters 2-3 of the apostle John's Revelation? Or his remarks at the end of the first chapter of his first letter, particularly the eighth verse? Each of these places in Scripture indicate that "continual obedience" to God is NOT guaranteed by the "second birth."
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"...Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks." (Matt 12:34)
If you won't say you are free from sin, you are not free from sin.
You won't confirm your obedience to God, so I conclude you are still disobedient.
Is my conclusion errant ?
Interesting twist of scripture but not convincing.
What does this mean to you?
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; Romans 1:3
If he was a God-man then He did not condescend low enough to be our savior. If you could not fall why was he even tempted that would be absurd.
Well, just saying there's "twisting" of Scripture and showing there's twisting are two different things. From my point of view, you're the one twisting Scripture. And quite badly, actually.
Also, I have no need to convince you of anything. That's never my goal in writing on CF.net because your being convinced is irrelevant to whether or not I've properly demonstrated that a thing is true. A mother, for example, watches a court of law prosecute her son for murder, damning evidence presented, eyewitnesses confirming his murderous act, a jury pronouncing him guilty and she still cries out as her son is led from the courtroom to prison, "He didn't do it! My son isn't a murderer! Please, don't send him to prison! He's innocent!" Despite all that has been presented, the mother is not convinced. Not because there isn't good evidence; not because the arguments haven't been solid and well-reasoned; not because there wasn't actual eye-witnesses to her son's evil deed; the mother simply doesn't want to be convinced. It is more important to her to defend her son than to see the truth about him.
Well, the mother is not by any means alone in refusing to be convinced of the truth by good argument and solid evidence. I encounter folk just like this mother online all the time who, despite mountains of evidence and reams of well-reasoned argument, simply won't be convinced. Their refusal to be convinced has nothing to do with rationality or evidence but with pride, with a desire to be right at all costs - even if the truth must be sacrificed as a consequence. For this reason, "It's not convincing" is, in my view, utterly irrelevant to whether or not a thing is true and conflates being persuaded of a thing with its truth-content. People are, as you know, convinced of falsehoods all the time.
Inasmuch as you've just dismissed all that I've pointed out, why should I engage further with you? Won't you simply offer more dismissiveness?
"Low enough"? According to whom? For what purpose, exactly?
What is absurd is to think that Jesus was anything other than the God-Man. For if he hadn't been the "fullness of the Godhead bodily," if he hadn't been the "express image of God's person," as Scripture says he was (Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:3), he could not have been the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29). Such a sacrifice required both perfection and divine infiniteness in order to be achieved and no mere sin-cursed, finite, fallible human being could supply either thing.
Hebrews 7:22-27
22 This makes Jesus the guarantor of a better covenant.
23 The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office,
24 but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever.
25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.
26 For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens.
27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself.
Christ, the Alpha and Omega, the One who has no beginning nor end, the Creator of the universe, came to earth to be a "sacrificial lamb" "once for all" precisely because he "continues forever," because he is infinite (John 1:1-4; Revelation 1:12-18) and thus able to make a sacrifice for all of humanity for all time.
And Christ, being God incarnate, was morally perfect, having no need to offer up sacrifices for his own sin, like any ordinary human priest would do. This perfection was vital to fully satisfying, once for all, the demands of God the Father's holy justice. Nothing less than perfection - infinite perfection - could have rescued us all from our sin.
Hebrews 10:9-14
9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second.
10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.
14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Jesus, then, came for no other purpose than to rescue us from ourselves, to establish a "new and living way" (Hebrews 10:14-22) to God through himself, the Way, the Truth and the Life (John 14:6). This he was able to do only because he was the perfect, infinite God-Man, in whom the fullness of the Godhead dwelt bodily (Colossians 2:9). Christ's chief goal while on earth was not to identify with us, which was quite evident in the Gospels in his interactions with his own disciples and in his broader interactions with the Jewish people, their religious leaders and Gentiles of the time, but to save us by his atoning sacrifice on the cross of Calvary.
Matthew 1:20-21
20 But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."
John 1:29
29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and *said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
Hebrews 7:25-27
25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens;
This is a curious thing. I asked one simple question and you refuse to answer because, "why should I engage further with you? Won't you simply offer more dismissiveness?"
And yet you write a very lengthy reply below without even addressing the question about Jesus humanity. I say that he was genetically a part of David's posterity and by extension Abraham and Adam. Yes he was fully human and he had the same nature as his mother, David, Abraham and Adam. The divine Son took on the responsibility of bringing humanity back to God. By living in us to be our Savior, Redeemer, Advocate and victorious Life. He demonstrated through the son of Mary how that is done. Mary's son was the model man and our example that a human with the same nature of David, Abraham and Adam can come through life victorious without yielding to sin. This is the acid test that he that is born of God does not commit sin because His Seed (Son) remains in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God. That Seed which lives and abides for ever.
Can you address this one text and then perhaps we can proceed.
I have already answered your "simple question," having pointed out from Scripture the plain and repeated declarations of Christ's divinity, which he possessed long before he took on human form. It is obvious, it seems to me, that the divine nature he possessed could not ever be overcome by the enormously inferior human nature he took on and then, by that far lesser nature, led into sin.
No, he did not have the same nature as Adam. The virgin birth ensured he was not conceived in the normal manner, the sin-curse of Adam communicated to him from a human father, but was, instead, birthed by the miraculous impregnation of Mary by the Holy Spirit, the true "father" of Jesus.
No, God incarnate - Christ Jesus - demonstrated in his perfect life the impossibility of any of us mere mortals doing the same. Now, we can certainly be much better - that is, much more Christlike - than we are naturally, but no rational person thinks they can be exactly as Christ, the God-Man, was (and is) in his moral perfection, spiritual wisdom and divine infiniteness. It is our utter inability to be as Christ is that requires the presence of the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit, within us, enabling us by his life and work to be progressively sanctified in our living as we move toward eternity. Without him, without the indwelling and empowering Holy Spirit, we can do nothing. (John 15:4-5; Romans 5:6; Titus 3:3-5; Ephesians 2:1-10; Colossians 1:21, etc.).
"I have already answered your "simple question," .... Think again.
I am going to assume that you believe as other people on this forum, that the Savior was 'fully human and fully God'. if that's not true you can correct me.
I'm speaking of the fully human part which did not exist prior to 2000 years ago. Not the fully divine part that has always existed and created everything.
Understanding his humanity is very important and will alleviate a lot of confusion.
So I would like you to deal with the scripture that I quoted from Romans 1:3 regarding his flesh. It says that he was born of the seed of David according to the flesh.
The seed of David (his genetics) was fully human and carries with it everything that David had to offer, nothing more. David could not pass on to his flesh descendants what he did not have. That which is born a flesh is flesh. Scripture also says he took part of the same flesh and blood as us.
Can you comment on this?
This is a lie from the pit and is designed to suck the power out of the Gift of God's Son to humanity. People who preach that sinning from time to time is a normal part of the born again life are preaching deception.
Are you interested in having a life of total submission to Christ and allowing Him to both will and do in you?
Not at all, as the first few of your posts here made me feel you were one of the good guys.
That hope is now dashed.
No, I've thought as much as I need to and answered you sufficiently.
Fully God and fully Man, yes. But these two nature's are not equal, obviously. Christ's deity necessarily ruled his humanity which meant he could not sin.
I cited to you the words of the angel to Joseph, who stated that Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit, not by any man. So, when Paul wrote of the "seed of David" in relation to Christ's human heritage, he was referring to his lineage, not the biology of his conception. If you read modern translations of the verse rather than the KJV, you will see this more plainly.
This sort of overwrought rhetoric doesn't help your view any, nor does it effectively counter mine.
I've already demonstrated from Scripture that you're entirely mistaken in this. Please deal with what I wrote. See 1 John 1:8, 1 Corinthians 3:1, Galatians 3:1-3, Revelation 2-3.
You wrote of the fully God part I have an interest in the fully human part which you have not considered at all apart from an insufficient made up answer for which there is no support. Heritage and lineage? Really?
We are fully human and the Son of God who is fully divine lives in us. This is God in human flesh. You state that, "Christ's nature ruled his humanity,". Would it follow that it would be impossible for you to sin? Or is our choice to submit to His leading and word that keeps us?
Heritage and Lineage????? How did you come to this conclusion? Is this from some modern translation? If it is I find nothing to support this apart from someone's guess.
The words "heritage" and "heredity" are connected etymologically. Both words derive from the Latin root "hereditas," which means "inheritance."
- Heredity refers to the biological process through which genetic traits are passed from parents to offspring. It is often used in the context of genetics and biology.
- Heritage refers to something that is inherited from the past, such as cultural traditions, values, or property. It is often used in the context of cultural or historical inheritance.
How about we go straight to the original version, the Greek definition:
Lexicon # 4690 Sperma
the semen virile the product of this semen, seed, children,
offspring, progeny
family, tribe, posterity
whatever possesses vital force or life giving
power
of divine energy of the Holy Spirit
operating within the soul by which we are regenerated
Do you see the words, sperm and semen? This is Biology.
I have no interest in trying to be right or proving you to be wrong. I really would like to sit on the same side of the table and examine all the evidence and come to an understanding about the human nature of Jesus. There is something altogether wonderful as we understand the incarnation. God in human flash. Not God in a skin suit. I don't wish to sound glib but your definition seems to express a skin suit, not a thinking individual. Just a body with no self-awareness or personality or Heredity. God exercising His will while living and moving with in us in the same manner as Mary's son. Christ in you just as He was in Jesus!
Read the next verse.
Really just because I would not use the easily misunderstood words, "I don't sin any more"?
If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
There is none good but God.
I too hade a glimmer of hope that you might have eyes to see something new and wonderful. Everything I have discovered and shared has magnified the Gift of God's sacrifice and shines a light on the pathway back to Him. The fact that you digressed to labeling what I shared with numerous ...isims rather than considering that what I shared just might shatter the tiny box God is confined to by religion and so called higher learning. I would love to see you made free
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An expression of incredulity is not an argument; it's just a rhetorical maneuver.
As I already said, Christ's deity overruled and directed his humanity, the former being necessarily and indescribably greater than the latter.
As for the "made up answer" please consider the following:
Amplified Bible - Romans 1:3
3 [the good news] regarding His Son, who, as to the flesh [His human nature], was born a descendant of David [to fulfill the covenant promises],
Christian Standard Bible - Romans 1:3
3 concerning his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, who was a descendant of David according to the flesh
Contemporary English Version - Romans 1:3
3-4 This good news is about his Son, our Lord Jesus Christ! As a human, he was from the family of David. But the Holy Spirit proved that Jesus is the powerful Son of God, because he was raised from death.
English Standard Bible - Romans 1:3
3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh
North American Standard Bible - Romans 1:3
3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,
And so on. "Of the seed of David" is a way of saying "a descendant of David" or "in the lineage of David." This fact is repeated in John 7:42:
John 7:42 (NASB)
42 "Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the descendants of David, and from Bethlehem, the village where David was?"
"A descendant of David" is an appropriate rendering of the phrase "of the seed of David." "Seed" is used a number of times in the KJV to refer, not to semen, but to progeny.
Romans 4:13 (KJV)
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Did Paul mean to say here that God had made a promise to Abraham's semen? Obviously not. "Seed" refers to Abraham's progeny, his descendants.
Romans 9:7-8 (KJV)
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Here, Paul clearly demonstrated that by "seed" he meant "children of Abraham," or "Abraham's descendants," not semen. Not all the biological children (seed) of Abraham are "children of the promise," that is, "children of God. Only the "children of promise" are counted as "the seed" of God.
Romans 11:1 (KJV)
1 I say then, Has God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Did Paul mean to say in this verse that he was Abraham's semen? Of course not. Paul meant to say only that he was the descendant of Abraham, through the tribe of Benjamin.
So, then, there are instances where, by "seed," Paul clearly meant "child/children/descendant." Is this the case in Romans 1:3? It seems very obvious to me that this is exactly what he meant, as the Bible versions I cited above acknowledge.
Romans 1:3
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Was Jesus the product of long-dead David's semen introduced into Mary? Is this what Paul meant to convey through his words here? Obviously not. Jesus "made of David's seed according to the flesh" is Paul's way of saying Jesus took on human form ("according to the flesh" - Philippians 2:5-8) and was born in the family line of King David ("made of David's seed - i.e. children), as prophecy foretold that he would.
But not in the way that Christ was the God-Man, the Incarnation of God. None of us are as Christ was: Deity - the Creator of All, in fact - born into a human body (John 1:1-4, 14). We are no more God than a clay pot is the Potter who formed it. We are creatures, not Creator, and are cursed by Adam's sin, fallible, contingent and weak (Titus 3:3; Ephesians 2:1-4; Colossians 1:21; Romans 5:6-8). When the Holy Spirit comes to reside within us, we remain two discrete beings, temple and temple Occupier (1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19-20):, Master and vessel (2 Timothy 2:21), Vine and branch (John 15;4-5).
Christ, however, did not occupy an already-existing human body with a consciousness, as the Holy Spirit does each born-again person today. No, Jesus "took on flesh" after the manner of every human soul, his body growing in the womb of Mary until birth after which he endured the normal process to physical maturation. It is quite inaccurate - or, perhaps, misleading is a better word - to say, then, that as "temples" of the Holy Spirit, we are "God in human flesh" in the sense in which Jesus was.
This is very much the sort of thing I encountered often with my High School English students who would try to bluff their way through an essay assignment for which they had not done appropriate reading and study. See above.
This is not by any means evident in your exchange with me so far. Quite the opposite, it seems to me.
This is not the impression you've been giving through your posts to me.
Yes, there is. The Incarnation is what I ponder and celebrate every Christmas.
No, your "skin suit" description does not fit with what I've pointed out from God's word. Christ was not God merely "wearing flesh" as a kind of costume. He experienced human existence exactly as you and I do, enduring pain, sickness, tiredness, various human emotions and physical impulses, etc.. But Christ's deity must necessarily have ruled his humanity. There was simply no equality possible between two such enormously disparate natures.
In the same way, there is no equality between we born-again people and the Holy Spirit who has made of us his "temples." We are indescribably inferior to the Spirit and must always be "walking in step" with him accordingly (Galatians 5:16, 25). He leads, we follow (Romans 8:14; Galatian 5:18). He controls, we yield to His control (Romans 6:13-18). He transforms, we submit to his changes (2 Corinthians 3:18; Galatians 5:22-23). Only when we are "living sacrifices" to the Spirit's - to God's - will and way do we discover the abundant life offered to us in Jesus Christ (Romans 12:1; Ephesians 3:14-21).
But, again, as born-again people, we share our body with the Holy Spirit; we are two distinct beings within the same human form. Jesus, in contrast, was a single being - God - possessing two distinct natures.
This is a deflection, not a cogent reply.
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:44-48
To anyone who can answer this question:
Was Cornelius and those who were present, born again before they were baptized in water?
JLB
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:44-48
- While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
To anyone who can answer this question:
Was Cornelius and those who were present, born again before they were baptized in water?
JLB