The Destruction Of Jerusalem

[Hitch]

The Destruction Of
JERUSALEM​

​

An Absolute and Irresistible
PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF​

CHRISTIANITY:
INCLUDING A NARRATIVE OF
THE CALAMITIES WHICH BEFEL THE JEWS
So far as they tend to verify
OUR LORD'S PREDICTIONS
Relative to that event.​

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

 

[Stormcrow]

Good post, Hitch. This is what needs to be taught in every adult Sunday School in every church throughout America, not because it casts the Jews during the siege in a bad light, but because it reveals how God fulfills every iota of His word.

I read it all and bookmarked it, as should anyone and everyone else who cares about the truth.

 

[n2thelight]

What did not happen in 70 AD proves that Preterism is false.

Why the tribulation did not happen in 70 AD

 

[jasoncran]

sigh, ad 70 is revalant as it was open statement by christ to the jewish leaders as coming judgment for their rejection of him. this was a scattering of the jews once again. thus the diaspora so commonly used. God wasnt going to kill all the jews but to show and do away with the temple style of worship and laws that the jews took pride in when their deliverer did come.

we are in the tribulation. so n2thelight. do you preach and teach that jews will kill christians once again in the synagouges?

 

[n2thelight]

sigh, ad 70 is revalant as it was open statement by christ to the jewish leaders as coming judgment for their rejection of him. this was a scattering of the jews once again. thus the diaspora so commonly used. God wasnt going to kill all the jews but to show and do away with the temple style of worship and laws that the jews took pride in when their deliverer did come.

we are in the tribulation. so n2thelight. do you preach and teach that jews will kill christians once again in the synagouges?

There has always been tribulations,

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

but what we are in now in no way what so ever compares to that of which Christ spoke of

Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

AD 70 was bad,don't get me wrong but it does not compare to the above verse.

As far as Jews killing Christians,Im not sure but I do know that it will be those whom think they do God a service

John 16:2
They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Preterist claim that Nero was the antichrist,yet scripture teaches that the antichrist will be killed by Christ at His arrival,ie the second coming...

So!who killed Nero?He killed himself........

 

[Stormcrow]

http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+24:21&version=9

Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

AD 70 was bad,don't get me wrong but it does not compare to the above verse.

The "above verse" you cited WAS ABOUT the "great tribulation of 70AD! You need to read that verse IN CONTEXT! 2

 

[Stormcrow]

Scripture tells me differently.....

"...that they should kill one another" (Rev 6:4)

When therefore Titus had marched over that desert which lies between Egypt and Syria, in the manner forementioned, he came to Cesarea, having resolved to set his forces in order at that place, before he began the war. Nay, indeed, while he was assisting his father at Alexandria, in settling that government which had been newly conferred upon them by God, it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other; which partition in such evil cases may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of Divine justice. Now as to the attack the zealots made upon the people, and which I esteem the beginning of the city's destruction, it hath been already explained after an accurate manner; as also whence it arose, and to how great a mischief it was increased.

The Works of Flavius Josephus.

Three equally murderous factions rose to prominence inside Jerusalem in 68-69AD: the faction led by Eleazar, the faction led by John of Gischala, and the faction led by Simon. These were insurrectionists united in their hatred of Rome but divided by their hatred of one another.

And now, as the city was engaged in a war on all sides, from these treacherous crowds of wicked men, the people of the city, between them, were like a great body torn in pieces. The aged men and the women were in such distress by their internal calamities, that they wished for the Romans, and earnestly hoped for an external war, in order to their delivery from their domestical miseries.

The citizens themselves were under a terrible consternation and fear; nor had they any opportunity of taking counsel, and of changing their conduct; nor were there any hopes of coming to an agreement with their enemies; nor could such as had a mind flee away; for guards were set at all places, and the heads of the robbers, although they were seditious one against another in other respects, yet did they agree in killing those that were for peace with the Romans, or were suspected of an inclination to desert them, as their common enemies. They agreed in nothing but this, to kill those that were innocent.The Works of Flavius Josephus.

It might pay you to get Josephus and read what he wrote about this time.

 

[n2thelight]

The "above verse" you cited WAS ABOUT the "great tribulation of 70AD! You need to read that verse IN CONTEXT! 2

During this time period, when followers of Jesus will be fleeing for their lives, Matthew 24:15 states that an “abomination of desolation†will be standing in the holy place in Jerusalem. It’s both interesting and significant that, just before Jesus returns, 2nd Thessalonians 2:3-9 says that the “son of perdition†(antichrist) will be sitting as God in the temple of God. That is certainly a striking and specific fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy of an abomination sitting in the holy place in Matthew 24:15.

It is also significant that Jesus referred to this great tribulation, following the abomination sitting in the holy place, as being a tribulation “such as has not been, nor ever will beâ€, in Matthew 24:21-22; furthermore, that unless the days of this tribulation were shortened, “no flesh would be savedâ€. This can’t be referring to the tribulation the Jews suffered from Rome in 70 AD, because they had suffered similar tribulation before when Babylon burned Jerusalem to the ground and murdered and enslaved their people. And, they certainly suffered even greater tribulation in the future when six-million Jews were slaughtered by Hitler. Also, the Jews’ specific tribulation and suffering in 70 AD would not have caused “no flesh†to be saved, but only Jews who were living in Jerusalem.

Christ’s disciples throughout the rest of the world were not threatened by the Romans’ destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. However, the great tribulation at the end of the world caused by the antichrist will indeed surpass all previous tribulations, because it is worldwide with an internationally enforced “mark of the beast†and worldwide death decree for all who don’t worship the beast, according to Revelation 13. Moreover, there obviously will be no tribulations coming in the future to compare with the one caused by antichrist because it occurs at the end of the world. And, the tribulation brought by antichrist also fulfills Christ’s statement that “no flesh would be saved†from destruction if God did not shorten the days, because it is a “worldwide†death decree. To any previously “unbrainwashed†and unbiased reader it is obvious that the antichrist’s tribulation in the “last days†is the fulfillment of Jesus’ “great tribulation†prophecy in Matthew 24:21-22, and not the tribulation surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 AD.

Furthermore, Matthew 24:23-24 speaks of false christs and false prophets doing great signs and wonders during the time of the tribulation period mentioned by Jesus, but there are no early historical or church records of such dramatic and supernatural phenomenon happening around 70 AD. However, regarding the great tribulation caused by the antichrist in the last days, 2nd Thessalonians 2:8-9 and Revelation 13:13-14 speak of signs, miracles and great and lying wonders being done, including fire falling from heaven. Once again, Jesus’ words find their fulfillment during the tribulation of the last days, not in the Jews’ tribulation in 70 AD.

Then, in Matthew 24:29, Jesus said that the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken immediately after the tribulation that He had mentioned in Matthew 24:21. Does secular or church history record any such cataclysmic phenomenon having occurred around 70 AD? No! So, once again, this has to be referring to the great tribulation caused by antichrist in the last days just before the return of Jesus. And, in fact, that is exactly what it says in Matthew 24:30; the Son of Man appears in the heavens right after these cataclysmic heavenly signs. It also states that “all the tribes of the earth†shall see Jesus and mourn at His appearance at this time. Did Jesus appear in the heavens with the entire world seeing Him in 70 AD? No! But, we know that this will happen at the end of the world.

Therefore, from all of the evidence, signs and context presented by Jesus in Matthew 24:15-30, it is indisputable that the “great tribulation†mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24:21, is during the reign of antichrist at the end of the world, not the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. In other words, Matthew 24:21 correlates to the same time period discussed in Revelation 13:4-17.

.Henry Bechthold

I really think you need to do that context thing!!!!

 

[jasoncran]

interesting stormcrow , i meant to look that up. sadly most churches of today hardly teach revalation and beat in selective verses. why that is i dont know.

agian for the new aod to happen the temple must be rebuilt and also the jews in this seven year period must also kill christians.

i'm not a pre-tribber nor a preterist.

 

[jasoncran]

There has always been tribulations,

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

but what we are in now in no way what so ever compares to that of which Christ spoke of

Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

AD 70 was bad,don't get me wrong but it does not compare to the above verse.

As far as Jews killing Christians,Im not sure but I do know that it will be those whom think they do God a service

John 16:2
They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Preterist claim that Nero was the antichrist,yet scripture teaches that the antichrist will be killed by Christ at His arrival,ie the second coming...

So!who killed Nero?He killed himself........

pre-tribbers claim nero, hitler and napolean and stalin were anti-christs but not THE anti-christ. all of them killed by men or natural causes.

can you reconcile with me the "clock"issue?

 

[Elijah674]

During this time period, when followers of Jesus will be fleeing for their lives, Matthew 24:15 states that an “abomination of desolation†will be standing in the holy place in Jerusalem. It’s both interesting and significant that, just before Jesus returns, 2nd Thessalonians 2:3-9 says that the “son of perdition†(antichrist) will be sitting as God in the temple of God. That is certainly a striking and specific fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy of an abomination sitting in the holy place in Matthew 24:15.

It is also significant that Jesus referred to this great tribulation, following the abomination sitting in the holy place, as being a tribulation “such as has not been, nor ever will beâ€, in Matthew 24:21-22; furthermore, that unless the days of this tribulation were shortened, “no flesh would be savedâ€. This can’t be referring to the tribulation the Jews suffered from Rome in 70 AD, because they had suffered similar tribulation before when Babylon burned Jerusalem to the ground and murdered and enslaved their people. And, they certainly suffered even greater tribulation in the future when six-million Jews were slaughtered by Hitler. Also, the Jews’ specific tribulation and suffering in 70 AD would not have caused “no flesh†to be saved, but only Jews who were living in Jerusalem.

Christ’s disciples throughout the rest of the world were not threatened by the Romans’ destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. However, the great tribulation at the end of the world caused by the antichrist will indeed surpass all previous tribulations, because it is worldwide with an internationally enforced “mark of the beast†and worldwide death decree for all who don’t worship the beast, according to Revelation 13. Moreover, there obviously will be no tribulations coming in the future to compare with the one caused by antichrist because it occurs at the end of the world. And, the tribulation brought by antichrist also fulfills Christ’s statement that “no flesh would be saved†from destruction if God did not shorten the days, because it is a “worldwide†death decree. To any previously “unbrainwashed†and unbiased reader it is obvious that the antichrist’s tribulation in the “last days†is the fulfillment of Jesus’ “great tribulation†prophecy in Matthew 24:21-22, and not the tribulation surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 AD.

Furthermore, Matthew 24:23-24 speaks of false christs and false prophets doing great signs and wonders during the time of the tribulation period mentioned by Jesus, but there are no early historical or church records of such dramatic and supernatural phenomenon happening around 70 AD. However, regarding the great tribulation caused by the antichrist in the last days, 2nd Thessalonians 2:8-9 and Revelation 13:13-14 speak of signs, miracles and great and lying wonders being done, including fire falling from heaven. Once again, Jesus’ words find their fulfillment during the tribulation of the last days, not in the Jews’ tribulation in 70 AD.

Then, in Matthew 24:29, Jesus said that the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken immediately after the tribulation that He had mentioned in Matthew 24:21. Does secular or church history record any such cataclysmic phenomenon having occurred around 70 AD? No! So, once again, this has to be referring to the great tribulation caused by antichrist in the last days just before the return of Jesus. And, in fact, that is exactly what it says in Matthew 24:30; the Son of Man appears in the heavens right after these cataclysmic heavenly signs. It also states that “all the tribes of the earth†shall see Jesus and mourn at His appearance at this time. Did Jesus appear in the heavens with the entire world seeing Him in 70 AD? No! But, we know that this will happen at the end of the world.

Therefore, from all of the evidence, signs and context presented by Jesus in Matthew 24:15-30, it is indisputable that the “great tribulation†mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24:21, is during the reign of antichrist at the end of the world, not the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. In other words, Matthew 24:21 correlates to the same time period discussed in Revelation 13:4-17.

.Henry Bechthold

I really think you need to do that context thing!!!!

Hi, there are 39 years seperating your Dan. time period. Both Christ + Paul stated that this (repeat of Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15) 'would be cut short in rightousness'. (NO MORE 39 Years!)
OK: So the Matt. 25 parable has Laodicea ALL SLEEPING with the MIDNIGHT CRY coming 39 years BEFORE 70AD's [LOUD CRY].

SO: What you need is to find out is what had old Israel + Laodicea DESOLATE + THE TIME/PERIOD. It was not in 70 AD, but in the 7 year time period of 27AD to 34AD [ONE WEEK!]


Jerusalem had satan as their new leader (compare Laodicea Rev. 3:9) when they DOCUMENTED that we have no KING BUT CAESAR. (see Isa. 5:*3*) And Laodicea has had the same repeat & are also a done Spewed Out Deal. Rev. 3:16's Eccl. 3:15 Ending.


--Elijah

 

[n2thelight]

pre-tribbers claim nero, hitler and napolean and stalin were anti-christs but not THE anti-christ. all of them killed by men or natural causes.

can you reconcile with me the "clock"issue?

Pre-tribbers are correct in their claim.There has always been anti-christs,they were types but not one of them, has been satan himself,whom is,THE anti-christ....They were simply types....No different than those who were types of Christ but not THE Christ....

What are referring too,about the clock?

 

[jasoncran]

Pre-tribbers are correct in their claim.There has always been anti-christs,they were types but not one of them, has been satan himself,whom is,THE anti-christ....They were simply types....No different than those who were types of Christ but not THE Christ....

What are referring too,about the clock?

the rapture has just occcured.

countdown to christ riding in on white horse to kill the ac in jersusalem shall occur in six years 364 days and 23hrs and 59 seconds.

that clock.

 

[n2thelight]

The most important thing you preterist fail to understand is the fact that,of ALL the times Jerusalem has been destroyed,it has happened by the hand of man..When Christ returns the second time He shall destroy it,in other words,it shall be cleansed...You all think the Romans did something,wait until Christ feet touch the Mount of Olives....

It's going to be an abomanation to Him,know why,because satan shall be sitting there claiming too be God......And you know what makes it so bad,most of the world will believe him...What the Romans did,will in no form shape or fashion,compare to what Christ will do,and you thought He was upset with the money changers in the temple,how do you think He will feel when satan is sitting there,keep watching.....

Zechariah 14:10 "All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses."

Zechariah 14:11 "And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited."

Is Jerusalem safely inhabited now?I don't think so!!!

 

[n2thelight]

the rapture has just occcured.

countdown to christ riding in on white horse to kill the ac in jersusalem shall occur in six years 364 days and 23hrs and 59 seconds.

that clock.

Like I said,I don't believe in a rapture,Pre,Mid or Post,as for the clock,I don't date set,for no man knows the hour,however I do know the season and we are in it now..I can get you close though,it shall happen 3 1/2 days after the two witnesses are killed....

Revelation 11:11 "And after three days and an half the spirit [breath] of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them."

Revelation 11:12 "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

This is the same earthquake from Zechariah,when Christ feet touch the ground

Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

All of this happens at the 7th trump,this is when Christ returns and not before....AD 70 included

 

[Drew]

Zechariah 14:10 "All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses."

Zechariah 14:11 "And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited."

Is Jerusalem safely inhabited now?I don't think so!!!

I addressed Zechariah 14, arguing that it has already been fulfilled, in another thread and there was no response. So I will make the case again. Sorry, but it takes a number of posts to make:

First post in a series addressing Zechariah 14:

Zechariah 14 describes an attack on Jerusalem by pagan nations, its capture and the exile of some of its inhabitants, the flight of others, the appearance of God as King and His victory over the attacking nations, the securing of Jerusalem, its “raising upâ€, the flow of Gentiles to Jerusalem to worship God as king, and finally an allusion to the clearing of traders from the temple.

I get the impression that many see this chapter as describing some apocalyptic events in the future. I do not share this view – I see the chapter as describing events that were fulfilled in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.
First, a point about apocalyptic language. In Zechariah 14, we have images of the Mount of Olives being split in half (v. 4), strange aberrations in the day / night cycle (v 6-7), and horrific images of a plague brought against soldiers that causes their bodies to rot on the spot (v. 12).

Did the prophet in the reader to take these images literally? Not likely. Such “over the top†apocalyptic images appear in numerous Old Testament prophecies to invest much more “common-place†events with their theological significance. In short, such wild images tell the reader that something significant is happening, but the images themselves are certainly not to be taken literally. Obviously, there has been no apocalyptic event at Jerusalem with mountains being split in two and soldiers rotting away in the thousands. But this is no reason to argue that the prophecies of Zechariah 14 have yet to be fulfilled.

I suggest that the events leading up and including the crucifixion and resurrection constitute fulfillment of the Zechariah 14 prophecies. The structure of my argument will be this: First, I will focus on the Matthew 24 discourse, showing that Jesus evokes and re-enforces many of the themes of Zechariah 14. As this argument unfolds, I will, as appropriate, weave in arguments that material in both texts suggests a reference to events of Jesus’ own day, not end time events. After completing the treatment of Matthew 24 in relation to Zechariah 14, I will expand my treatment outward from Matthew 24 to embrace other Biblical material which re-enforces the notion that Zechariah 14 has already been fulfilled.

....Other posts to follow

 

[Drew]

2nd post re Zech 14:

A point about method: I am fully aware that merely showing a strong correlation between Zechariah 14 and Matthew 24 - that they likely describe the same scenario - does not specifically support my argument that Zechariah 14 has already happened. Both texts could refer to the same cluster of future events rather than the same cluster of events in Jesus own time. This is why I will go beyond showing a mere correlation between these texts and provide evidence that the common scenario they describe has already come to pass.

Consider where Jesus is situated when he makes the well-known Matthew 24 (and parallels) discourse. He is sitting on the very spot where God takes His stand in Zechariah 14:4 – the Mount of Olives. This is already a compelling hint that as He sits on this very significant spot, He is fulfilling this from Zechariah 14:

In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east;

Note how material from Zechariah 14 coheres perfectly well with such a reading. In verses 1 and 2, Jerusalem is indeed seized and plundered and in verse 5, the reader is urged to flee. And, of course, the Romans did attack and sack Jerusalem with some of Jesus’ followers fleeing the carnage.

No doubt, some readers will object that certain statements by Jesus in Matthew 24 are an allusion to Jesus’ 2nd coming. I suggest, instead that these statements are actually allusions to his imminent (e.g. in the very near future) vindication and enthronement. Jesus will be vindicated as a prophet when, in 70 AD, His many prophecies of coming judgement against Israel’s leaders will come true. Once more, people take language like “they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky†(Matthew 24:30) literally and imagine that Jesus is talking about a 2nd coming event which has not yet happened. Again, such an interpretation fails to account for how the “coming on the clouds†image is used in scripture. As argued elsewhere, this image comes from Daniel 7, where it is used to denote vindication after suffering and enthronement, not literal travel from heaven to earth. Jesus knows His Old Testament. The allusion to Daniel 7 in Matthew 24:30 is no accident – Jesus is calling up an image of vindication and enthronement and applying it to himself.

.....more to come.

 

[Drew]

Last post re Zechariah 14:

I have already offered that Matthew 24 echoes Zechariah 14 in the matter of a predicted sack of Jerusalem and a warning to flee. However, the connections are much stronger than this. What is the broader context of the Matthew 24 teaching? Jesus has just entered Jerusalem to waving palm branches. He has cleared the temple, demonstrating authority over it. In the Jewish worldview, it is precisely the Messianic King who has authority over the temple. And where are kings to be enthroned? In Jerusalem. Jesus is engaging in precisely those behaviours which indicate He is claiming Kingship. And what does Zechariah 14 have to say about what happens as God fights the enemy in the apocalyptic scenario:

“The Lord will be King over the whole earth†(v. 9)

I trust the point is clear. At the end of His ministry, Jesus engages in the very behaviours that entail a kingship claim and prophecies coming judgement against Jerusalem. And Zechariah 14 echoes this precisely – Jerusalem is besieged and God becomes King. If Zechariah 14 still lies in the future, then we have the very challenging task of explaining precisely why Jesus seems to be claiming Kingship, and yet that claim will not be made good for > 2000 years, since God “becomes king†in the context of the fulfillment of Zechariah 14.

Jesus quotes from Zechariah 13 when, in Matthew 26, He predicts that the disciples will abandon him as he goes to the cross:

I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered

What does this tell us? It strengthens the argument that Jesus is fulfilling the Zechariah 14:4 prophecy when he sits on the Mount of Olive and predicts judgement on Jerusalem. The Matthew 26:31 text shows that Jesus sees himself in the role of Zechariah’s shepherd. The shepherd image in the Old Testament is often applied to God. And in Zechariah 14, we have God becoming king. These are compelling reasons to think that Jesus sees Himself as playing the role of the divine kingly ruler of Zechariah 14.

On top of all these arguments, we have Zechariah 14:16-19. In those verses, the pagan nations – the Gentile stream to Jerusalem to worship. This has strong echoes of this covenant promise made to Abraham. There is little doubt that Paul, in Romans if not elsewhere, sees Jesus’ action on the cross as the very event whereby this covenant promise is fulfilled – the Gentiles are brought into the family of God:

21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
25As He says also in Hosea,
"I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, 'MY PEOPLE,'
AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, 'BELOVED.'"
26"AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, 'YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,'
THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD."

Paul sees that the promised grafting in of the Gentile occurs through the work of the cross. And Zechariah 14 paints precisely such a picture: Following a victory of God over the enemies of the people in verses 9-15 (a victory which, no doubt, Paul would see was won at Calvary by none other than Jesus), the Gentiles stream in to worship the living God (16-19). All these connections strongly endorse the notion that Zechariah 14 has already been fulfilled

 

[jasoncran]

hmm i will have to look at that part more i have read that.but you have claimed much of the pre-trib doctrine, i am not a preterist.

theres too much of a description on jerusalem to simply say that God is done with the physical nation.

heres why.

genocides. why is it that the jews alone are hated the most on this earth.we have peace now in n.ireland. no more catholics vs the protestants(i am half-irish and while i dont talk much on that).

the balkan states that the u.s was a genocide of serb christians and bosnian muslims both trying to kill each other off.tito when they were in yugoslavia stopped all that. now these groups fought for centuries, yet theres is peace.

we cant say that about the arabs and the jews.nor is any peaceful solution so easy on isreal.

coincidence? how many of you really think that if isreal was wiped off the map that the jews would loose their identity and cease to remember jersusalem. i know from history that aint the truth.why do they hold promise to something and they kept the tanakh intact (we christians surely assisted despite trying to kill them off).sure God isnt reached by judiasm but i say having spent last saturday at a jewish funeral that blindness spoken by paul isnt lifted to them. nor has the jewish sandhedrin(whom jesus said ye shall not see me till ye say..) said blessed is he that cometh in the lord. and in context since the preterist will say take it in context. behold jerusalem shall lay desolate.hmm that was in vs before jesus said ye shall not see me.

that hasnt happened yet.

 

[n2thelight]

Drew

Paul sees that the promised grafting in of the Gentile occurs through the work of the cross. And Zechariah 14 paints precisely such a picture: Following a victory of God over the enemies of the people in verses 9-15 (a victory which, no doubt, Paul would see was won at Calvary by none other than Jesus), the Gentiles stream in to worship the living God (16-19). All these connections strongly endorse the notion that Zechariah 14 has already been fulfilled

Problem with your scenario is the fact that,Christ shall rule from Jerusalem,live and in person,in other words,in living color...Your scenario also dosn't account for the verse below.....

Zechariah 14:11 "And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited."

Again,one must understand duel prophecy when studying scripture,especially,prophecy....


Ecclesiastes 1:9 "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."

Solomon, with the guidance of the Spirit of God, is telling you that those things that have happened before, will happen again. It is important that you understand this. There is no new idea or thing that can happen to man that has not already happened to man. Remember that "under the sun" is in reference to "this flesh body of man".

What is a "similitude" and a "type?": Simply stated, all the events and various stories in the Bible are examples of what is to come. These particular events and stories did in fact happen, but through God's perfect plan and intervention; these events and stories will replicate themselves in a similar manner, were-by we can understand one thing that is to come in the future, by our understanding of another thing already past. This is one of the keys to understanding prophecy.

What is a "parable?": A parable is one thing that acts as another thing, or one thing that represents another thing. Christ so often spoke in parables. He did this as a way to say one thing and have it mean different things to different people at different levels of instruction. But no one meaning can go against the other meanings, this is a witness to the supreme authorship of God, and the presence of the Holy Spirit in the writings and events recorded in our Bibles.


1 Cor 10:11
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples*: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.*(KJV)

There are only two Advents witnessed to in Scripture {Zech 9:9 (First Advent); Zech 9:10 (Second Advent)}. This is also why Jesus, when reading from the book of Isaiah in the Synagogue in {Lk 4:17-21} had to stop reading at the middle of verse {Isa 61:2} when He was reading the Scripture that spoke of Him, because the words that came after "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord" would not be fulfilled until His Second Advent:

Luke 4:17-21
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. (KJV)

Below is the Scripture Christ was referring to, the words in blue bold are the words that He could not finish reading to them at that time and still have been able to say that: "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears" because it will not be fulfilled until the Second Advent:

Isa 61:1-3
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. (KJV)

When Christ rules from Jerusalem,we will know it for a fact,not think we know,that has yet to happen....

Again Christ destroys Jerusalem,not man.....