The Destruction Of Jerusalem

[tim-from-pa]

And for the Preterists out there, when was Zechariah 14:18 ever fulfilled?. Show me one historical incident regarding the heathen (nations) going to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Another point to make is that Israel never, ever returned to the land of Israel (for those who say the land promises were of the past). Only the Jews returned to the land of Israel. So Ezekiel 37 was never fulfilled yet because the "two sticks" historically were never rejoined. No serious historian denies what I just stated.

And oh, no "spiritualizing". If you just reinterpret the bible into allegory instead of literal as it plainly states, then one can make it say anything. The passage in Zechariah is clearly not allegory, parable, or symbolic. It's an event and I want to know when that ever happened?

 

[n2thelight]

And for the Preterists out there, when was Zechariah 14:18 ever fulfilled?. Show me one historical incident regarding the heathen (nations) going to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Another point to make is that Israel never, ever returned to the land of Israel (for those who say the land promises were of the past). Only the Jews returned to the land of Israel. So Ezekiel 37 was never fulfilled yet because the "two sticks" historically were never rejoined. No serious historian denies what I just stated.

And oh, no "spiritualizing". If you just reinterpret the bible into allegory instead of literal as it plainly states, then one can make it say anything. The passage in Zechariah is clearly not allegory, parable, or symbolic. It's an event and I want to know when that ever happened?

It hasn't...........But of course you know they shall spiritualize it,but that's the whole problem with most bible students,they don't know when too and not too!!!

 

[Stormcrow]

During this time period, when followers of Jesus will be fleeing for their lives, Matthew 24:15 states that an “abomination of desolation” will be standing in the holy place in Jerusalem.

For the benefit of others who may be reading this, I’m going to tell you what this “abomination of desolation” means AGAIN, just so people aren’t perpetually confused by this nonsense!

Luke describes what the “abomination of desolation” is:

[FONT=&quot]{20} [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. {21} "Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; Luke 21:20-21 (NASB) [/FONT]

Now, here’s the same verse from Matthew:
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]{15} [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), {16} then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. {17} "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Matthew 24:15-17 (NASB) [/FONT]

The “abomination of desolation” of which Daniel wrote can be understood in the events that surrounded Antiochus IV Epiphanes:

{29} "At the appointed time he will return and come into the South, but this last time it will not turn out the way it did before.

Antiochus IV Ephiphanes of Syria goes to war against Ptolemy of Egypt and almost completely overtakes Egypt.

{30} "For ships of Kittim [Cyprus] will come against him; therefore he will be disheartened and will return and become enraged at the holy covenant and take action; so he will come back and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant.

Here's how THIS verse was fulfilled!

In 168 BC Antiochus led a second attack on Egypt and also sent a fleet to capture Cyprus. Before reaching Alexandria, his path was blocked by a single, old Roman ambassador named Gaius Popillius Laenas, who delivered a message from the Roman Senate directing Antiochus to withdraw his armies from Egypt and Cyprus, or consider themselves in a state of war with the Roman Republic. Antiochus said he would discuss it with his council, whereupon the Roman envoy drew a line in the sand around him and said, "Before you cross this circle I want you to give me a reply for the Roman Senate" - implying that Rome would declare war if the King stepped out of the circle without committing to leave Egypt immediately. Weighing his options, Antiochus decided to withdraw. Only then did Popillius agree to shake hands with him.[5]

What happened next???

{31} "Forces from him [Antiochus' Macedonian and Syrian armies] will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation. Daniel 11:29-31 (NASB)

Josephus tells the rest of the story:

He [Antiochus] also burnt down the finest buildings; and when he had overthrown the city walls, he built a citadel in the lower part of the city, for the place was high, and overlooked the temple; on which account he fortified it with high walls and towers, and put into it a garrison of Macedonians.

However, in that citadel dwelt the impious and wicked part of the [Jewish] multitude, from whom it proved that the citizens suffered many and sore calamities.

And when the king had built an idol altar upon God's altar, he slew swine upon it, and so offered a sacrifice neither according to the law, nor the Jewish religious worship in that country. He also compelled them to forsake the worship which they paid their own God, and to adore those whom he took to be gods; and made them build temples, and raise idol altars in every city and village, and offer swine upon them every day.The Works of Flavius Josephus.

Here then is your "abomination of desolation:" the hated (abominable) armies of Antiochus IV Epiphanes laying waste to (desolating) the city of Jerusalem and land of Judea, just as Rome's legions would do almost 200 years later!

Stop listening to false teachers and UNDERSTAND what Christ was saying to His disciples!!! It's not that hard to understand once you commit to finding the truth instead of pushing a doctrine!!!

 

[n2thelight]

For the benefit of others who may be reading this, I’m going to tell you what this “abomination of desolation” means AGAIN, just so people aren’t perpetually confused by this nonsense!

Luke describes what the “abomination of desolation” is:

[FONT=&quot]{20} [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. {21} "Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; Luke 21:20-21 (NASB) [/FONT]

Now, here’s the same verse from Matthew:

[FONT=&quot]{15} [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), {16} then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. {17} "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Matthew 24:15-17 (NASB) [/FONT]

The “abomination of desolation” of which Daniel wrote can be understood in the events that surrounded Antiochus IV Epiphanes:

Antiochus IV Ephiphanes of Syria goes to war against Ptolemy of Egypt and almost completely overtakes Egypt.

Here's how THIS verse was fulfilled!

What happened next???

Josephus tells the rest of the story:

Here then is your "abomination of desolation:" the hated (abominable) armies of Antiochus IV Epiphanes laying waste to (desolating) the city of Jerusalem and land of Judea, just as Rome's legions would do almost 200 years later!

Stop listening to false teachers and UNDERSTAND what Christ was saying to His disciples!!! It's not that hard to understand once you commit to finding the truth instead of pushing a doctrine!!!

WRONG!!!!!!!
Let me help you out.......

Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand"


The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it. The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived.


Daniel 9:27; "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and the determined shall be poured upon the desolate."


The Holy place is the place that the temple sits, and this is the subject for the very first, when the buildings of the temple were observed by the disciples, and the question of what it would be like at His second advent. This is where the desolation [Satan, the Antichrist] shall sit on mount Zion, making his abominations, or statements that he is the Christ.


I shall say this again.........CHRIST,destroys Jerusalem not man or through man.period........

Now,you may have told me already but who is the antichrist?

 

[jasoncran]

And for the Preterists out there, when was Zechariah 14:18 ever fulfilled?. Show me one historical incident regarding the heathen (nations) going to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Another point to make is that Israel never, ever returned to the land of Israel (for those who say the land promises were of the past). Only the Jews returned to the land of Israel. So Ezekiel 37 was never fulfilled yet because the "two sticks" historically were never rejoined. No serious historian denies what I just stated.

And oh, no "spiritualizing". If you just reinterpret the bible into allegory instead of literal as it plainly states, then one can make it say anything. The passage in Zechariah is clearly not allegory, parable, or symbolic. It's an event and I want to know when that ever happened?

thus why i dont buy all revalation towards ad 70. or what christ said toward isreal alone. you cant spiritualise it all. sure much of these prophecies are symbolic but they have meaning. surely even the pre-tribber pastors that havent had any contraversy teach that. dr. rogers, and his like.

but hey he didnt try to win souls nor warn of liberal theology in the sbc. he wasnt perfect.

 

[Elijah674]

For the benefit of others who may be reading this, I’m going to tell you what this “abomination of desolation†means AGAIN, just so people aren’t perpetually confused by this nonsense!

Luke describes what the “abomination of desolation†is:

[FONT=&quot]{20} [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. {21} "Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; Luke 21:20-21 (NASB) [/FONT]

Now, here’s the same verse from Matthew:

[FONT=&quot]{15} [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), {16} then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. {17} "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Matthew 24:15-17 (NASB) [/FONT]

The “abomination of desolation†of which Daniel wrote can be understood in the events that surrounded Antiochus IV Epiphanes:

Antiochus IV Ephiphanes of Syria goes to war against Ptolemy of Egypt and almost completely overtakes Egypt.

Here's how THIS verse was fulfilled!

What happened next???

Josephus tells the rest of the story:

Here then is your "abomination of desolation:" the hated (abominable) armies of Antiochus IV Epiphanes laying waste to (desolating) the city of Jerusalem and land of Judea, just as Rome's legions would do almost 200 years later!

Stop listening to false teachers and UNDERSTAND what Christ was saying to His disciples!!! It's not that hard to understand once you commit to finding the truth instead of pushing a doctrine!!!

One would do best to just leave off most of the Jer. 17:5 ones. Matt. 4:4 + 2 Tim. 3:16 finds God's Word with it's own interpitation.

The One Week of Dan. was the TIME of Christ being REJECTED by His own. We HAVE NO KING BUT CAESAR was their Cry, Matt. 25's MIDNIGHT CRY was the Warning of the Closed Door of their probation. (ibid 10) the DESOLATE HOUSE was of Matt. 23:38, THEIR HOUSE OF ABOMINATION! Isa. 5:3 is their prophesied to be.. 'FINAL" FATAL CHOICE.


And this was not the 70AD Destruction of Jerusalem 39 years 'LOUD CRY' later! (notice an Midnight Cry & then this Matt. 24 Loud Cry) Ask yourself that when Christ was REJECTED, who IMMEDIATELY TOOK OVER? This was the ABOMINATION THAT MADE DESOLATE! (compare Laodicea in Rev. 3:9!)


Israel in 70AD as the past/tense Virgin Vinyard of Isa. 5 were FINISHED as they CHOOSE the 'HOUSE' over Christ! (Isa. 5:7 with the choice of verse 3) In John 12:42-43 we see recorded that MANY BELIEVED [ON HIM]' yet they choose His Vineyard [HOUSE] 'least they should be put OUT of [THE SYNAGOGUE]! 'For they [[[LOVED WHAT, CHRIST?]]] LOVED THE PRAISE OF MEN MORE THAN THE PRAISE OF GOD.' The 39 years still allowed for these of Matt. 23:15 'ignorant' proselytes to individually mature with the extended Church of Acts Remnant that left!


And as in Eccl. 3:15 & [ALL OF THESE OF REV. 17:1-5's repeat] whose 'HOUSE' is already DESOLATE OF CHRIST & only awaiting their destruction. These ones who need the power of satan to execute (church/state) the 666 violaters in the final FINISH are also already 'set in spiritual concrete!'


SO: NO, Matt. 24's 70 AD finds the END TIME message to three questions & seperate time frames to verse 3 answered, but all of these had a dual repeated message unless DOCUMENTED that they did not have! Such as both Christ & Paul (BOTH/TWICE) telling us that this ENDING 'WILL BE CUT SHORT IN RIGHTOUSNESS' And why?? Because of verse 21 on, and this is where we are intering.


And the Promised land? It will no doubt be the final sequence of satan's drama as the above verses play out for his deception. And the promised Land will not be given until the 1000 years are over & Eath is recreated! Rev. 21

--Elijah

 

[Stormcrow]

WRONG!!!!!!!
Let me help you out.......

Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand"


The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it.

You're certainly entitled to your own opinions. You are NOT entitled to your own facts, and the FACT remains that the "abomination of desolation" is defined for us in Luke's account of the Olivet Discourse.

In the meantime, NOWHERE is the word "antichrist" used as a synonym for Satan. Nowhere. It's such an utterly ridiculous statement to make, I'm surprised ANYONE would believe it!

Personally, I don't care what you believe, but I am concerned that the misinformation you're spreading continues to blind people to the plain, simple truth in God's word.

For what it's worth.

 

[Stormcrow]

Sorry, Elijah: I have no idea what you are trying to communicate. Here's a little hint to get people to understand your posts: don't assume people know what you're talking about. We don't.

Take it for what you paid for it.

 

[jasoncran]

One would do best to just leave off most of the Jer. 17:5 ones. Matt. 4:4 + 2 Tim. 3:16 finds God's Word with it's own interpitation.

The One Week of Dan. was the TIME of Christ being REJECTED by His own. We HAVE NO KING BUT CAESAR was their Cry, Matt. 25's MIDNIGHT CRY was the Warning of the Closed Door of their probation. (ibid 10) the DESOLATE HOUSE was of Matt. 23:38, THEIR HOUSE OF ABOMINATION! Isa. 5:3 is their prophesied to be.. 'FINAL" FATAL CHOICE.


And this was not the 70AD Destruction of Jerusalem 39 years 'LOUD CRY' later! (notice an Midnight Cry & then this Matt. 24 Loud Cry) Ask yourself that when Christ was REJECTED, who IMMEDIATELY TOOK OVER? This was the ABOMINATION THAT MADE DESOLATE! (compare Laodicea in Rev. 3:9!)


Israel in 70AD as the past/tense Virgin Vinyard of Isa. 5 were FINISHED as they CHOOSE the 'HOUSE' over Christ! (Isa. 5:7 with the choice of verse 3) In John 12:42-43 we see recorded that MANY BELIEVED [ON HIM]' yet they choose His Vineyard [HOUSE] 'least they should be put OUT of [THE SYNAGOGUE]! 'For they [[[LOVED WHAT, CHRIST?]]] LOVED THE PRAISE OF MEN MORE THAN THE PRAISE OF GOD.' The 39 years still allowed for these of Matt. 23:15 'ignorant' proselytes to individually mature with the extended Church of Acts Remnant that left!


And as in Eccl. 3:15 & [ALL OF THESE OF REV. 17:1-5's repeat] whose 'HOUSE' is already DESOLATE OF CHRIST & only awaiting their destruction. These ones who need the power of satan to execute (church/state) the 666 violaters in the final FINISH are also already 'set in spiritual concrete!'


SO: NO, Matt. 24's 70 AD finds the END TIME message to three questions & seperate time frames to verse 3 answered, but all of these had a dual repeated message unless DOCUMENTED that they did not have! Such as both Christ & Paul (BOTH/TWICE) telling us that this ENDING 'WILL BE CUT SHORT IN RIGHTOUSNESS' And why?? Because of verse 21 on, and this is where we are intering.


And the Promised land? It will no doubt be the final sequence of satan's drama as the above verses play out for his deception. And the promised Land will not be given until the 1000 years are over & Eath is recreated! Rev. 21

--Elijah

thats a first with no historical evidence you claim the catholic church is a sect that say they are jews but are not. not only is that highly inflammatory where is the part that they did come to the feet of said church.

the rcc wasnt even around then. nor was the the bible written as we know today, only the septuagiant and the letters and epistles were in circulation.

 

[n2thelight]

You're certainly entitled to your own opinions. You are NOT entitled to your own facts, and the FACT remains that the "abomination of desolation" is defined for us in Luke's account of the Olivet Discourse.

In the meantime, NOWHERE is the word "antichrist" used as a synonym for Satan. Nowhere. It's such an utterly ridiculous statement to make, I'm surprised ANYONE would believe it!

Personally, I don't care what you believe, but I am concerned that the misinformation you're spreading continues to blind people to the plain, simple truth in God's word.

For what it's worth.

Eye's WIDE shut!!!!!

It's really sad you can't see that,the doctrine you believe,is only half right.....

Too go off topic for a sec on the antichrist

antichrist: Greek word #500 antichristos (an-tee'-khris-tos); from # 473 (anti) and # 5547 (Christos); an opponent of the Messiah: KJV-- antic

[The word antichrist is made up of two Greek words:]
Anti: Greek word # 473: anti (an-tee'); a primary particle; opposite, i.e. instead of, or because of (rarely in addition to): for, instead of, in place of (something) Often used in composition to denote substitution.

Christos: Greek word #5547: Christos (khris-tos'); anointed, i.e. the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus

Since you refuse to understand what I mean by antichrist,who is it being spoken of in the below verse?


2nd Thess 2:2-4 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (KJV)

So simple,a child could understand,but since you say Im blinding the people,do tell,who is the above person???

 

[Hitch]

Eye's WIDE shut!!!!!

It's really sad you can't see that,the doctrine you believe,is only half right.....

Too go off topic for a sec on the antichrist

antichrist: Greek word #500 antichristos (an-tee'-khris-tos); from # 473 (anti) and # 5547 (Christos); an opponent of the Messiah: KJV-- antic

[The word antichrist is made up of two Greek words:]
Anti: Greek word # 473: anti (an-tee'); a primary particle; opposite, i.e. instead of, or because of (rarely in addition to): for, instead of, in place of (something) Often used in composition to denote substitution.

Christos: Greek word #5547: Christos (khris-tos'); anointed, i.e. the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus

Since you refuse to understand what I mean by antichrist,who is it being spoken of in the below verse?


2nd Thess 2:2-4 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (KJV)

So simple,a child could understand,but since you say Im blinding the people,do tell,who is the above person???

Shhhhhhh,,,
Everyone pretend no to notice how EVERY verse with antichrist in it was avoided.:waving

 

[Elijah674]

'i' said what?????????

 

[reba]

The Destruction Of
JERUSALEM​

An Absolute and Irresistible
PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF​

CHRISTIANITY:
INCLUDING A NARRATIVE OF
THE CALAMITIES WHICH BEFEL THE JEWS
So far as they tend to verify
OUR LORD'S PREDICTIONS
Relative to that event.​

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Back to topic please.

Understanding the history of the destruction Jerusalem includes to many a figure of an antichrist , please try to keep the destruction of Jerusalem as the TOPIC.

 

[Drew]

Problem with your scenario is the fact that,Christ shall rule from Jerusalem,live and in person,in other words,in living color...Your scenario also dosn't account for the verse below.....

Zechariah 14:11 "And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited."

Here is a prophecy extracted from Zechariah 14:

…but Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site from Benjamin's Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's wine presses. 11People will live in it, and there will no longer be a curse, for Jerusalem will dwell in security.

Consider the allusion to Zechariah 8 that is made in 14:11 through the phrase “there will no longer be a curse”. Here is the material:

11 But now I will not deal with the remnant of this people as I did in the past," declares the LORD Almighty. 12 "The seed will grow well, the vine will yield its fruit, the ground will produce its crops, and the heavens will drop their dew. I will give all these things as an inheritance to the remnant of this people. 13 As you have been an object of cursing among the nations, O Judah and Israel, so will I save you, and you will be a blessing. Do not be afraid, but let your hands be strong."

When is Israel seen to be a blessing? Paul believes that it is precisely when Jesus acts as Israel on the Cross, defeating sin and death and in so doing fulfilling Israel’s role to be a blessing to the nations. This has already happened. (Note: Perhaps the reader will dispute this claim about Jesus taking on the role of Israel and fulfilling her covenant role of defeating sin and death. That is a complex discussion, but I am willing to get into it).

Paul certainly sees that Israel has already blessed the nations at the cross. From Romans 11 where it is clear from context that the broken branches are Jews and the “I” is the Gentile:

You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20Quite right,

So seeing the Zechariah 14:11 reference to the “rescue” of Jersusaelm as having already been fulfilled coheres perfectly well the Biblical theme of Israel blessing to the nations through Jesus action on the cross. Now I am perfectly aware the “there will no longer be a curse” image also connects to Rev 22, where most people would say that future events are at issue. Fair enough – I am not claiming to have an “airtight” solution, and I am not opposed (at present) to “double fulfillment”. For the present, I am really only constructing a plausibility argument that Zech 14:11 can be seen as having been fulfilled in the past (even if there is another sense in which it is fulfilled in the future).

There are other allusions in the Zechariah 14:10-11 text that suggest that the prophecy has already been fulfilled. Consider the statement about the rising of Jerusalem in verse 10 (“Jerusalem will rise”). This evokes this text from Isaiah 2:

The word which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2Now it will come about that
In the last days
The mountain of the house of the LORD
Will be established as the chief of the mountains,
And will be raised above the hills;
And all the nations will stream to it.
3And many peoples will come and say,
"Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
That He may teach us concerning His ways
And that we may walk in His paths."
For the law will go forth from Zion
And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

The “house of the Lord” is a way of speaking about the temple. So the mountain is Mount Zion. Now consider this prophetic material from Daniel 2 – a text which was historically was interpreted with the Messiah set in the role of the stone that becomes a mountain that fills the whole earth:

You, O king, were looking and behold, there was a single great statue; that statue, which was large and of extraordinary splendor, was standing in front of you, and its appearance was awesome.
32"The head of that statue was made of fine gold, its breast and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of bronze, 33its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay.
34"You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them. 35"Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

Now notice this cryptic saying from Jesus in Mark 12:

Have you not even read this Scripture:
'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone;

Jesus is talking about himself here, setting Himself in the role of the Messianic “stone” from Daniel 2 and re-asserting his theme of imminent destruction of the temple, with Jesus Himself serving as the “new temple”.

I suggest that it is highly plausible that the Zech 14:10-11 material – with its allusion to the “rise” of Jerusalem – is really a prophecy about how Jesus will replace the temple and become a “temple” that extends out into the whole world.

In this respect notice how Zechariah 14 goes on immediately to talk about Gentiles streaming into Jerusalem. This strengthens the legitimacy of my connecting the Zechariah 14 reference to the “rise” of Jerusalem to the Isaiah 2 material – both texts refer to raising up of Jerusalem (the Isaianic material is somewhat veiled in this regard through the allusion to the “house of the Lord on the mountain, but the connection is still there) and both texts deal with the in-gathering of the Gentiles. It is therefore likely that the same event is being described in both cases/

We know that Old Testament prophecy gives the Jews the covenant role of being a blessing to the nations, and, importantly, we know that Paul sees the work of Jesus 2000 years ago as fulfilling that very role.

I suggest that careful consideration of the scriptural image of the mountain as the Jerusalem temple, the “stone that becomes a mountain” as a Messianic reference, and Jesus self-ascription of the role that very stone supports the position that the “rise of Jerusalem” allusion is to the events of the 1st century, when Jesus indeed became the cornerstone of the new temple and effected the in-gathering of the Gentiles into the people of God.

 

[Drew]

When Christ rules from Jerusalem,we will know it for a fact,not think we know,that has yet to happen....

I intend to dispute this statement of yours with actual argiuments later.

For the present I will make the following assertions;

1. Jesus is presently ruling the entire world;

2. In both Jesus and Paul, we a re-definition of what "true Israel" is.

3. Point 2 means that we cannot simply assume that all references to Israel (and to Jerusalem by extension) are to be taken as referring to "ethnic Israel", or the actual city of Jerusalem;

4. It is clear from Paul's writings that he understands that the special status of national Israel has come to an end on the cross. This casts doubt on this entire body of "Israel eschatology" that we see so much of - that the nation of Israel will be restored to the land of Palestine. Just because Israel as a nation was "re-founded" in 1948 does not mean that this was God's plan.

 

[Drew]

2nd Thess 2:2-4 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (KJV)

So simple,a child could understand,but since you say Im blinding the people,do tell,who is the above person???

Its actually not that simple. If time permits, I will say other things about this text. But, for the present, I will point out what a "child" would not know and yet what is vitally important to understand in respect to understanding this (and other) texts : It was common for Roman emperors (and other figures of high authority) to divinize themselves (or others did so on their behalf).

So, in that cultural context, it was perfectly imaginable that a "mere man" could enter the temple and claim that he was God. My point being that Antiochus could indeed say such things about himself - so the claim of divinity in and of itself does not mean that Antiohus is not the "being" who stands in the temple.

 

[Sinthesis]

The fact that we as Christians, regardless our genetic descent, trace our heritage through to the Jews via Jesus is the evidence of Jerusalem's redemption from their warranted devastation of 70AD.

 

[francisdesales]

The fact that we as Christians, regardless our genetic descent, trace our heritage through to the Jews via Jesus is the evidence of Jerusalem's redemption from their warranted devastation of 70AD.

I think that there is room to look at the literal and the spiritual within these Scriptures. Yes, Jerusalem was destroyed, but more to the point, the Temple cult was destroyed. THIS was clearly the end of something and the start of something new. Jesus said that the Temple would be destroyed and a new Covenant would be formed - the Christians in Palestine leaving Jerusalem before the end clearly points out to their view of the transferance of the "Temple" to the Body of Christ, found within each local community of worshipers while celebrating the Eucharist.

Regards

 

[n2thelight]

I intend to dispute this statement of yours with actual argiuments later.

For the present I will make the following assertions;

1. Jesus is presently ruling the entire world;

2. In both Jesus and Paul, we a re-definition of what "true Israel" is.

3. Point 2 means that we cannot simply assume that all references to Israel (and to Jerusalem by extension) are to be taken as referring to "ethnic Israel", or the actual city of Jerusalem;

4. It is clear from Paul's writings that he understands that the special status of national Israel has come to an end on the cross. This casts doubt on this entire body of "Israel eschatology" that we see so much of - that the nation of Israel will be restored to the land of Palestine. Just because Israel as a nation was "re-founded" in 1948 does not mean that this was God's plan.

1,Christ is not ruling the world,when He does it shall be from Jerusalem,Christ does not return until the 7th trump,satan gets cast out of heaven at the 6th trump wher he shall as the antichrist,pretend to be Christ....

2,I know who true Israel is and they have not as yet returned there,only the tribe of Judah is there now,only a remnant at that......

3,I know

4,The tribe of Israel shall return,that is when the two sticks are joined back together...Israel becoming a nation again was the plan of God,it is that refounding that started the generation which would not pass until all is fulfilled....


I must keep saying this..........Christ detroys Jerusalem,not man........The destruction that happened in AD70 will not compare,as a matter of fact some of the stones are still upon one another..... The western wall is still standing. The western wall, also called "the wailing wall" was part of the temple area.....

 

[Hitch]

1,Christ is not ruling the world,when He does it shall be from Jerusalem,Christ does not return until the 7th trump,satan gets cast out of heaven at the 6th trump wher he shall as the antichrist,pretend to be Christ....

2,I know who true Israel is and they have not as yet returned there,only the tribe of Judah is there now,only a remnant at that......

3,I know

4,The tribe of Israel shall return,that is when the two sticks are joined back together...Israel becoming a nation again was the plan of God,it is that refounding that started the generation which would not pass until all is fulfilled

Yeah, that 'all power and authority' thing was just funnin.