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The Destruction Of Jerusalem

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Drew

How is it that the party that is defeated on the cross is king while the victor is not?



I Corinthians 15:54 "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in Victory." "

So your soul must put off the physical body, and this soul but be changed from a state of possible destruction by sin, and put on immortality through the shed blood of Christ before this saying can be true. "Death is swallowed up in Victory", when your sins are blotted out and made as they had never been committed. Then we have eternal life in Jesus Christ. There is still death until after the Millennium age.

Because he has not yet been cast into the lake of fire.......satan cannot do anything that God does not allow him too....

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.



 
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Stormcrow

And the 7th trump happened at the destruction of Jerusalem!!!

If this wasn't so serious it would be comical..........

I Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him."

Where are all the people that have died in Christ?According to you,they should be here......

I Corinthians 15:53 "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

Revelation 10:7 "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Revelation 11:7 "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit [abyss] shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

Revelation 11:8 "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sod'-om and E'-gypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

Revelation 11:9 "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."

Revelation 11:10 "And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth."

Revelation 11:11 "And after three days and an half the spirit [breath] of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them."

Revelation 11:12 "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Had the 7th trump sounded we would not now be in flesh bodies,Im done with you and this subject!!!!!!!


Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
 
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I Corinthians 15:54 "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in Victory." "

So your soul must put off the physical body, and this soul but be changed from a state of possible destruction by sin, and put on immortality through the shed blood of Christ before this saying can be true. "Death is swallowed up in Victory", when your sins are blotted out and made as they had never been committed. Then we have eternal life in Jesus Christ. There is still death until after the Millennium age.

Because he has not yet been cast into the lake of fire.......satan cannot do anything that God does not allow him too....

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

You missed a spot:

{20} But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. {21} For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. {22} For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. {23} But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, {24} then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. {25} For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. {26} The last enemy that will be abolished is death. {27} For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 1 Corinthians 15:20-27 (NASB)

Jesus is Lord NOW! He has put ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER GOD'S FEET!

Jesus Christ conquered death! Jesus Christ is alive RIGHT NOW at the right hand of the Father!!!

There is only one LAST TRUMP! So when Jesus said,

{31} "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Matthew 24:31 (NASB)

That was one of the things that would happen IN THEIR LIFETIME!

{32} "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; {33} so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. {34} "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:32-34 (NASB)

Had the 7th trump sounded we would not now be in flesh bodies,Im done with you and this subject!!!!!!!

You assume the resurrection at the last trump was intended for us, but it was NOT, because WE have already been raised WITH HIM!!! We don't sleep in the ground waiting to be raised: we go straight to the Father upon death, because THAT'S WHERE WE ALREADY ARE SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING!!!

The resurrection Paul is talking about is this one:

{1} "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. {2} "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (NASB)

{13} "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age." Daniel 12:13 (NASB)

The angel is telling Daniel go to the end of your life when you will rest, then you willl be raised AT THE END OF THE AGE! THE "END OF THE AGE" was the end of the Mosaic Covenant - the 'age" of the Old Testament - that was completely finished in 70AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple!!!

The resurrection was for those righteous, faithful Jews who died before Christ's 1st advent and His death on the cross!!!

We don't need a resurrection, because we go to the Father immediately upon death!!!

http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+7:6&version=9
Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.


When you actually cast any pearls my way, I'll take offense at being called a swine. :nono2
 
"Death is swallowed up in Victory", when your sins are blotted out and made as they had never been committed. Then we have eternal life in Jesus Christ.

According to any Christian Bible I've ever read, this happens the moment you accept Christ and His death as payment for your sins.

{25} Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, {26} and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:25-26 (NASB)

You're preaching "another gospel." I'd hardly call that "pearls." :nono2
 
According to any Christian Bible I've ever read, this happens the moment you accept Christ and His death as payment for your sins.

{25} Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, {26} and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:25-26 (NASB)

You're preaching "another gospel." I'd hardly call that "pearls."
:nono2


I reposted the last post for the sake of the thread
 
n2thelight
"Death is swallowed up in Victory", when your sins are blotted out and made as they had never been committed. Then we have eternal life in Jesus Christ.


Stormcrow

According to any Christian Bible I've ever read, this happens the moment you accept Christ and His death as payment for your sins.

{25} Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, {26} and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:25-26 (NASB)

You're preaching "another gospel." I'd hardly call that "pearls." :nono2

Had the 7th trump sounded already we would not now be in flesh bodies period,a point you have yet to address....There also will be no sickness or death,last time I checked people are still dying and people are still getting sick.

I Corinthians 15:53 "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

Are you right now immortal?No your not.......


Christ returns here at the 7th trump,where He shall rule from Jerusalem,is Christ there now?No He's not.....

Yes, your sins are forgiven the moment you accept Christ,but after that,what happens when you sin again?Or are you one of those who claim.once saved always saved..

When Christ returns at the 7th trump,the age of flesh man is over,now you say the 7th trump happened already when there is no way possible according to scripture that it has,do tell,who's preaching another gospel????
 
Are you right now immortal?No your not.......
What part of this verse:

{25} Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, {26} and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:25-26 (NASB)

Says those who believe have to wait for immortality until He returns???

Where does Paul say that in this verse:

{4} But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, {5} even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), {6} and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, {7} so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:4-7 (NASB)

:nono2
 
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Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


When does everlasting life begin?
 
What part of this verse:

{25} Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, {26} and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:25-26 (NASB)

Says those who believe have to wait for immortality until He returns???

Where does Paul say that in this verse:

{4} But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, {5} even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), {6} and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, {7} so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:4-7 (NASB)

:nono2

There are two deaths,death of the flesh and the death of the soul.....

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

ALL will be changed into spiritual bodies when Christ returns,at the 7th trump,this is the death of the flesh.ALL who are on this earth right now are still in their natural bodies,had the 7th trump sounded,this would not be so....


I Corinthians 15:49 "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

We don't as yet have that image of the heavenly,again that won't happen until you die or when Christ return's,at the 7th trump....

I Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

We are still now in the flesh,therefore Christ kingdom cannot now be here on earth,where it shall be,at the 7th trump.....

Again this does not happen until the 7th trump

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

Now,when does this change take place?

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

So again,if you are still in your flesh body the 7th trump has not sounded,and that change has yet to take place!!!!!

Reba

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


When does everlasting life begin?


Perish in the above simply means the death of the soul,If you die believing in Christ the 2nd death has no power

Revelation 20:11 "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away: and there was found no place for them."

Revelation 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Everlasting life begins when you die believing in Christ or if you are changed believing in Him at the 7th trump....

Again ALL flesh shall die and return to the dust from where it came,had the 7th trump sounded this would have already happened......

So again I ask why if the 7th trump sounded already are we still in flesh bodies?

Also

Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

If the kingdoms of this world became Christ's in 70ad can you please tell me how there is flesh in blood in it at this time(now)when Paul said that can't happen???

So again and again why are we still in flesh bodies????????




 
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We are still now in the flesh, therefore Christ kingdom cannot now be here on earth, where it shall be, at the 7th trump.....
Everlasting life begins when you die believing in Christ or if you are changed believing in Him at the 7th trump....
Both of these statements are so patently wrong and clearly unbiblical they leave one breathless!
{4} But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, {5} even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), {6} and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:4-6 (NASB)
The very MOMENT you become a child of God, you are “made alive” in Him: your spirit, which had been dead, becomes alive as a NEW CREATURE!

The very INSTANT a believer dies, he or she is transported IMMEDIATELY into the presence of the Father where we receive our new, spiritual bodies!

There is no “soul sleep” for the believer! There is no waiting in the grave to be “reborn!” You are reborn as a new creature the very MOMENT you accept Christ!!!

{19} So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, {20} having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, {21} in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, {22} in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit. Ephesians 2:19-22 (NASB)

Get it? We ARE fellow citizens with the saints (faithful Jews)! We ARE – AT THIS VERY MOMENT – members of God’s very household, seated with Him where God is!!!

Your body goes to the grave but you go to heaven because – by God’s grace – you are already there!!!

How much plainer can it be???
{36} "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." John 3:36 (NASB)

(This verse doesn't say whoever believes in the Son WILL get eternal life: it says whoever believes in the Son HAS IT!!! RIGHT NOW!!!)

{24} "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 5:24 (NASB)

{3} "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3 (NASB)
Paul summarizes the point better than I:
{1} For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. {2} For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, {3} inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked.

{4}
For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. {5} Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

{6}
Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord— {7} for we walk by faith, not by sight— {8} we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 (NASB)

If you believe in Christ, you have eternal life NOW! The body you receive when you die awaits you IN HEAVEN! Paul wrote in verse 5 of that passage that we have His Spirit NOW as His pledge of those things that wait for us IN HEAVEN WITH HIM!

The good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ is this: anyone can be assured of having eternal life right this very minute by believing in Jesus Christ and accepting His sacrifice for your sins, so that should you die, you will immediately go to be with the Father to live with Him forever!

The "good news" you're preaching is that accept Christ now and you'll wait in the grave until He gets around to raising you from the dead!!!

Yours is NOT the gospel Christ or the apostles preached!
 
Stormcrow

The very MOMENT you become a child of God, you are “made alive” in Him: your spirit, which had been dead, becomes alive as a NEW CREATURE!

The very INSTANT a believer dies, he or she is transported IMMEDIATELY into the presence of the Father where we receive our new, spiritual bodies!

There is no “soul sleep” for the believer! There is no waiting in the grave to be “reborn!” You are reborn as a new creature the very MOMENT you accept Christ!!!

My point is the fact that when Christ returns , no believer will ever die again,flesh or otherwise,so my question remains,why are we still in flesh.... bodies?????

Why is Christ not ruling from Jerusalem where scripture says He shall???????

If you believe in Christ, you have eternal life NOW! The body you receive when you die awaits you IN HEAVEN! Paul wrote in verse 5 of that passage that we have His Spirit NOW as His pledge of those things that wait for us IN HEAVEN WITH HIM!




Paul said the change happens at the 7th trump,we shall not ALL sleep(die)

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

Paul is saying if you don't die(sleep)before Christ returns at the 7th trump you will be changed at that time.....Now since you don't have your new body now,Christ has not returned,for you will receive that body at the 7th trump or when you die whichever comes first........

Question remains,why are we still in flesh bodies????????
 
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Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
 
no believer will ever die again,flesh or otherwise
So Jesus was either lying or just kidding around when He said this to Martha:

{25} Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, {26} and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:25-26 (NASB)
Why does your eschatology insist on rewriting the gospel?

{14} But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and manifests through us the sweet aroma of the knowledge of Him in every place. {15}For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing; {16} to the one an aroma from death to death, to the other an aroma from life to life. And who is adequate for these things? 2 Corinthians 2:14-16 (NASB)
You are already eternally alive if you believe in Him, and passing from this life simply begins your next one: there is no "waiting in the grave" to be raised. You pass from LIFE to LIFE, not from DEATH to LIFE or "SLEEP" to LIFE!!!

There is absolutely NO scripture to support your teaching except that which you've twisted beyond any and all apostolic meaning. None.
 
One more thing:

Christ said that His kingdom is not of this world. He was crucified - for one - because He refused to let the people make Him king! The Jews were looking for earthly savior.

Some people are looking for the same thing when they insist on believing He's not sitting on the throne THIS VERY MINUTE and has been there for the past 2,000 years!

They want an earthly savior. They want to SEE Christ reign instead of living BY FAITH that He already does!!!

They are, therefore, repeating the same mistakes the Jews of His generation made!!!

Time to start 'walking by faith instead of by sight!"
 
One more thing:

Christ said that His kingdom is not of this world. He was crucified - for one - because He refused to let the people make Him king! The Jews were looking for earthly savior.
I would like to address this often misunderstood "my kingdom is not of this world" saying.

Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?" 34"Is that your own idea," Jesus asked, "or did others talk to you about me?" 35"Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?" 36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

In verse 36, Jesus seems to be saying "My kingdom has nothing to do with earthly kingdoms, so there is no 'political' dimension to my kingdom".

As it turns out, there is a huge translation issue here. Here is the rendering of verse 36 as per the NET Bible:

Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my servants would be fighting to keep me from being 1 handed over 2 to the Jewish authorities. 3 But as it is, 4 my kingdom is not from here.

The NET version is, my sources indicate, true to the original Greek. The greek word that is rendered “from†(above in the bolded and underlined cases) has the following definition:

“a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote)â€

When the word is used properly, we see that the “not of this world†reading is misleading. The intended meaning is that the Kingdom that has been brought to earth is from Heaven - that is, Heaven is the point of origin for the Kingdom that has been initiated.

Jesus is a King. Jesus' kingdom, while not from this world, is rather clearly for this world.
 
Some people are looking for the same thing when they insist on believing He's not sitting on the throne THIS VERY MINUTE and has been there for the past 2,000 years!"
This statement we agree on, except that you appear, from the "not of this world" teaching", to believe that Jesus' kingdom does not presently include "this present world" within its embrace. I think the Biblical case is exceedingly strong that it does.
 
Mat 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?


Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
 
You are already eternally alive if you believe in Him, and passing from this life simply begins your next one: there is no "waiting in the grave" to be raised. You pass from LIFE to LIFE, not from DEATH to LIFE or "SLEEP" to LIFE!!!

There is absolutely NO scripture to support your teaching except that which you've twisted beyond any and all apostolic meaning. None.
Are you suggesting that there will no "resurrection" of "dead" believers in the sense of such believers, whose bodies are presently decomposing in the ground, being given new physical bodies.

I do not see how such a position - that there will be no future bodily resurrection - can survive Biblical muster. But, if you believe otherwise, we can talk about that.
 
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The very INSTANT a believer dies, he or she is transported IMMEDIATELY into the presence of the Father where we receive our new, spiritual bodies!

I see no evidence for this position anywhere in the scriptures. Can you defend this claim Biblically? I suspect we will end up disagreeing on the meaning of the phrase "spiritual body" as this term is used by Paul. I am prepared to argue that Paul uses this term to denote a physical body, but one that has been resurrected, and thus transformed.
 
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