The Disciples Did Not Know Him

[2nd Timothy Group]

That's funny. I have to admit, though, that even though I was reminiscing of a previous experience, I would have likely quoted the Bible as "blink" instead of "twinkling".

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

My understanding is that at the moment before the blade falls (or as it's falling) that the Lord snatches us out of our body to be with Him. So there will be no pain, and there is the Lord.

When Stephen was being stoned, scripture says the Heavens opened for him. Stephen was in no pain at that point. Just the joy of the Lord.

I agree with your intuitive view of these matters. It is possible that Daniel and his three companions were given to us to view that they were protected even in death. Surely, they all should have died in that fire, yet their clothes didn't even smell like smoke. This is the Power and Holy Protection of the Lord. It is real, and the Lord still grants these displays of Power sparingly.

That said, even if a person were to suffer incredibly, such as an uncle held captive in Vietnam and tortured for seven years, when we Endure and find ourselves in the Holy presence of the Lord, none of that pain matters. It will be ok! It will be worth it! To be within the Power of God is so utterly mind-blowing, absolutely none of the horrible, ugly events that victimized us nor the events where we victimized others . . . none of it will be a part of the new Heavenly experience. We are utterly Purified so that we can be in the Lord's presence.

I cannot wait to experience that for eternity instead of only a few moments.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

They perhaps didn't have a complete understanding in the crucifixion and resurrection redemption plan until after Jesus had risen and appeared alive to Him. That's a far cry from didn't have a clue He was the Christ. And we know Peter was a disciple so when he denied knowing Jesus that was a lie prompted by fear for his life as God allowed Peter to be sifted by evil spirits. Beforehand Jesus prayed that Peter's faith might not fail and when he returned to he was instructed to strengthen his brothers. Cleopas and his companion who thought Jesus was the one who would redeem Israel and were shocked at the crucifixion at first didn't recognize the one speaking to them because God kept them from knowing who was speaking to them until that vail was lifted.

So it was a learning process for even the pillars of the faith such as the Apostles.
As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead. 10They kept the matter to themselves, discussing what “rising from the dead” meant

There seems to be a great deal they understood only at and after Pentecost. For example, they asked him after the Resurrection when he would establish his kingdom (and they’d rule beside him.) But when Peter stood to preach at Pentecost, not a word about Jesus’ millennial kingdom was spoken but only the Gospel (repent and believe) and the fulfillment in that day of Joel’s words. Actually, Jesus return and subsequent millennial kingdom was rarely spoken of and did not occupy much of their thinking.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Who can truly know the mind of God!!!

Well, anyone to whom God chooses to reveal His mind.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Good to hear.

The Mind of God is something inconceivable, for the Lord is so utterly Powerful, we must be absolutely Purified before we can withstand His Holy presence. In fact, His presence is so Powerful, I almost died the most amazing and incredible death by that Power. I wish that He had taken me that day.

Strange that no one in the Bible who claimed to be in His Presence came away wishing that they had died there. My experience is a greater desire to serve and please Him and less thought about my pleasure. “Here am I, send me” expresses better the experience as opposed to, “how great I feel here.”

 

[Randy]

There seems to be a great deal they understood only at and after Pentecost. For example, they asked him after the Resurrection when he would establish his kingdom (and they’d rule beside him.) But when Peter stood to preach at Pentecost, not a word about Jesus’ millennial kingdom was spoken but only the Gospel (repent and believe) and the fulfillment in that day of Joel’s words. Actually, Jesus return and subsequent millennial kingdom was rarely spoken of and did not occupy much of their thinking.

Yes, but they knew with certainty at that point He was the Christ, the Son of God.

More was to come

“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

 

[for_his_glory]

Coming to knowledge & trust in Jesus as Savior, makes us no less immune to falling into the same trap that Peter & other apostles may have .
It is no different than me or you being present for one reason or another, employment, social gathering , etc,etc, among a group of people who are not believers when something wrong is said concerning Christ, but instead of speaking up for Christ as we should, we decide to just keep our mouth shut out of FEAR.
The same sin of fear that Peter had.
Fear that what we say might affect our employment, fear that we may become looked upon as a fanatic , fear that we may be ostracized.
The Good News is that these instances in scripture were given to us by God in His Word that we should not lose heart and become discouraged when we stumble and fall as Peter did, but that we grow stronger from the experience just as Peter did, and face future instances with a resolute boldness for Christ that is unshakable .

We have to remember that the disciples walked with Jesus and went where He went, but not yet indwelled with the Holy Spirit so they walked as carnal man until their Spiritual eyes and ears were opened on the day of Pentecost for then they knew Jesus as Messiah come being the Son of God. From that day they were sent out to preach the good news of what we have now that has been written for us to also take out into the world. If we are ashamed before man or fear what man can do to us then Christ Jesus will be ashamed of us.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luke 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
Luke 9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[for_his_glory]

My understanding is that at the moment before the blade falls (or as it's falling) that the Lord snatches us out of our body to be with Him. So there will be no pain, and there is the Lord.

When Stephen was being stoned, scripture says the Heavens opened for him. Stephen was in no pain at that point. Just the joy of the Lord.

This is off topic, but will answer this. When Stephen was stoned to death it was for his testimony of Christ as he feared not what they could do to the body as when he died the only thing that returned to God was the spirit/breath that God gave him. Stephen like all who have died are still in their graves waiting for the resurrection when Christ returns.

This needs to be another topic if you would like to start one please tag me into it and we can discuss this further.

 

[for_his_glory]

This suggests they did believe in Him.
John 17
I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

There where a few noted that doubted after Jesus was crucified but before the resurrected Jesus appeared to them alive.

Such as Thomas and Cleopas.

The disciples did not know who Jesus was as being the Messiah, Son of God as they were yet carnal and only knew Him as a Prophet/teacher. It wasn't until Jesus appeared to them in the upper room and then they were indwelled with the Holy Spirit then they knew who Jesus truly was. Even though Peter said Jesus was the Son of God after Jesus asked him three times, yet he denied him in fear three times when Jesus was crucified. Other then John none of the disciples witnessed the crucifixion, but fled to the upper room behind locked door in fear the Roman guards would come and crucify them as followers of Jesus. Luke 24

 

[for_his_glory]

That's not what it says, lol. It says in the twinkling of an eye. The twinkling of an eye is much faster than the blink of an eye!

A twinkling of the eye, technically means, the amount of time that it takes light to travel through the cornea of your eye and be projected onto our visual screen behind it. The distance is close and light travels very fast.

Lol.

It really doesn't matter whether it's a blink or a twinkle as it will be quick.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The disciples did not know who Jesus was as being the Messiah, Son of God as they were yet carnal and only knew Him as a Prophet/teacher. It wasn't until Jesus appeared to them in the upper room and then they were indwelled with the Holy Spirit then they knew who Jesus truly was. Even though Peter said Jesus was the Son of God after Jesus asked him three times, yet he denied him in fear three times when Jesus was crucified. Other then John none of the disciples witnessed the crucifixion, but fled to the upper room behind locked door in fear the Roman guards would come and crucify them as followers of Jesus. Luke 24

Except Peter proclaimed out loud, “you are the Messiah” so it seems he, at least, knew.

 

[jaybo]

Except Peter proclaimed out loud, “you are the Messiah” so it seems he, at least, knew.

He also denied Him three times out loud.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

He also denied Him three times out loud.

What does that prove?

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

The moment Jesus approached His new disciples, He said to them, "Follow me," and they all promptly stopped doing the things they were doing and began following Him. There was no discussion reported. The new disciples didn't clarify who this man was, exactly. Something happened within their minds. What was it? What happened to them all that would allow them to "see" that Jesus was a person worthy of following? What happened to them that would cause them to "hear" Him in those moments? What happened to them that would allow them to begin to Spiritually "walk" with Christ? And so from the beginning, we have a precedence being set, which is that Christ Enables anyone He desires to respond to Him.

John 9:39 NLT - "Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind."

It is simple . . . the Lord determines the manner and scope in which we think. This is the Power necessary to accomplish the Lord Mysterious, Eternal Plan. Without this incredible ability to determine the manner and scope in which entire Nations think, there could be no "Plan." For, humanity would determine its own path; its own course. And that is impossible, for the Bible makes no claim but the complete opposite.

Ephesians 3:9-11 NLT - "I was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning. 10 God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 11 This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord."

Who is only display? Humanity? And to whom? Ahhh . . . Unseen Rulers and Authorities? And the purpose is to use us as a display of His Rich Power to these Rulers and Authorities? Don't you all see? We, each of us, we are a display of God's Almighty Power, and the only way that this could be True, is if He were directing and controlling all things.

What we see in Peter is this ability of God to determine the manner and scope in which he thought concerning the death of Jesus. This is nothing Biblically new. In fact, this really should feel quite familiar to as, as the Old Testament possesses over 100 of these kinds of incredible stories. And it is about one thing: It is about the Power of God.

 

[Consecrated Life]

We have to remember that the disciples walked with Jesus and went where He went, but not yet indwelled with the Holy Spirit so they walked as carnal man until their Spiritual eyes and ears were opened on the day of Pentecost for then they knew Jesus as Messiah come being the Son of God. From that day they were sent out to preach the good news of what we have now that has been written for us to also take out into the world. If we are ashamed before man or fear what man can do to us then Christ Jesus will be ashamed of us.

You don't need the Holy Spirit to fully know Him when you have the Glorified Son of the Living God in the flesh with you.
Jesus testified to the Apostles ability to have the same access to the Throne of God and His Spirit & knowledge imbued to them if they believe with Him in their presence, as we have today with the Holy Spirit :

Mat 16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

That is why Jesus told them the Holy Spirit would only come after He was ascended and gone.
He was only needed after that.
Peter was witness to something on earth that you and I have never seen, not just the Son of God in flesh, but in His Transfigured Glorified state.

Jhn 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Peter knew in his heart only too well exactly who he had denied.
Thus , the very bitter tears that came forth immediately :

Luk 22:62
And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.

Attempting to apply a hearty helping of soft soap to Peter's tragic fall. using the Holy Spirit as an excuse no less, is to completely miss God's point.
Which is that while we all could find ourselves weeping bitterly over a spiritual fall , Christ will never abandon those that truly repent.
We should all benefit from Peter's bitter experience.

 

[Edward]

The moment Jesus approached His new disciples, He said to them, "Follow me," and they all promptly stopped doing the things they were doing and began following Him. There was no discussion reported. The new disciples didn't clarify who this man was, exactly. Something happened within their minds. What was it? What happened to them all that would allow them to "see" that Jesus was a person worthy of following? What happened to them that would cause them to "hear" Him in those moments? What happened to them that would allow them to begin to Spiritually "walk" with Christ? And so from the beginning, we have a precedence being set, which is that Christ Enables anyone He desires to respond to Him.

I've no way of saying this is the truth but I've heard that They took Jesus to be a Rabbi by the way he walked, and that Rabbis do not choose many students so if a Rabbi were ever to say follow me, then anyone in his right mind would do so.

They say that back then people could even tell which sect the Rabbi belonged to by how he walked.

I'm not big on ancient Hebrew culture so don't know for sure, but it is said to be so.

 

[Randy]

The disciples did not know who Jesus was as being the Messiah, Son of God as they were yet carnal and only knew Him as a Prophet/teacher. It wasn't until Jesus appeared to them in the upper room and then they were indwelled with the Holy Spirit then they knew who Jesus truly was. Even though Peter said Jesus was the Son of God after Jesus asked him three times, yet he denied him in fear three times when Jesus was crucified. Other then John none of the disciples witnessed the crucifixion, but fled to the upper room behind locked door in fear the Roman guards would come and crucify them as followers of Jesus. Luke 24

They knew He was the Christ. They believed He was the Son of God. They believed He came from God and His teaching was from God.

John 17
Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

Philip, like Andrew and Peter, was from the town of Bethsaida. 45Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

Peter denied knowing Jesus period. A lie because he feared for his life. We know Satan asked for and received permission to sift the disciples. Peter had learned from God who Jesus was. The Christ the Son of God. The other disciples were there as well hearing Jesus state such as He was the one asking them , "who do you say that I am?"

 

[for_his_glory]

They knew He was the Christ. They believed He was the Son of God. They believed He came from God and His teaching was from God.

John 17
Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

Philip, like Andrew and Peter, was from the town of Bethsaida. 45Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

Peter denied knowing Jesus period. A lie because he feared for his life. We know Satan asked for and received permission to sift the disciples. Peter had learned from God who Jesus was. The Christ the Son of God. The other disciples were there as well hearing Jesus state such as He was the one asking them , "who do you say that I am?"

They only knew Jesus with a carnal knowledge, but yet did not know the Spiritual things until the day of Pentecost when they were indwelled with the Holy Spirt as then their Spiritual eyes and ears were opened to understand as Jesus taught them much more before He ascended up to heaven.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

There were times when the disciples' minds were opened to understand some pretty incredible things, such as:

Matthew 17:10-13 NIV - "The disciples asked him, "Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?" Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist."

 

[eddif]

You don't need the Holy Spirit to fully know Him when you have the Glorified Son of the Living God in the flesh with you.
Jesus testified to the Apostles ability to have the same access to the Throne of God and His Spirit & knowledge imbued to them if they believe with Him in their presence, as we have today with the Holy Spirit :

Mat 16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

That is why Jesus told them the Holy Spirit would only come after He was ascended and gone.
He was only needed after that.
Peter was witness to something on earth that you and I have never seen, not just the Son of God in flesh, but in His Transfigured Glorified state.

Jhn 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Peter knew in his heart only too well exactly who he had denied.
Thus , the very bitter tears that came forth immediately :

Luk 22:62
And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.

Attempting to apply a hearty helping of soft soap to Peter's tragic fall. using the Holy Spirit as an excuse no less, is to completely miss God's point.
Which is that while we all could find ourselves weeping bitterly over a spiritual fall , Christ will never abandon those that truly repent.
We should all benefit from Peter's bitter experience.

To me it is hard to seperate what has to do with our individual salvation experience (Christ in us), and the great Commission. The great commission is about teaching others. The power to teach others evidently requires the Holy Spirit. The waiting at Jerusalem (till you be empowered with power on high) that you might be witnesses.

The life giving spirit / quickenging spirit of
2 Peter chapter 1 working in us, is the personal part.

Our job is not just to work on ourselves, but if we (accept the job?), to help others know Jesus. We are empowered to help others by the Holy Spirit.

I am a redneck from Mississippi and struggle to explain what I see through these welding goggles / sunshades I wear.

eddif