The Disciples Did Not Know Him

[2nd Timothy Group]

The power to teach others evidently requires the Holy Spirit.

Yes! But you know what's interesting? This same Spirit only seems to be granting Knowledge of the Gospel to a select few.

How many Christians out of 100 are sharing the Gospel? Is there even 1%? How many Christians out of 1000 are sharing the Gospel? 1%? - In my 55 years of life, I've had about two people attempt to share the Gospel with me. My goodness, we don't even talk about the Gospel in Church! Instead, we chat with each other about work, and other things going on in our lives.

What is worse, I would say that most who are sharing the "Gospel" aren't really sharing the True Gospel. Most people haven't a clue as to the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Effect of Christ. When we can discuss these things at the drop of a hat, then, perhaps we might feel that we know the True Gospel.

 

[Consecrated Life]

To me it is hard to seperate what has to do with our individual salvation experience (Christ in us), and the great Commission. The great commission is about teaching others. The power to teach others evidently requires the Holy Spirit. The waiting at Jerusalem (till you be empowered with power on high) that you might be witnesses.

The life giving spirit / quickenging spirit of
2 Peter chapter 1 working in us, is the personal part.

Our job is not just to work on ourselves, but if we (accept the job?), to help others know Jesus. We are empowered to help others by the Holy Spirit.

I am a redneck from Mississippi and struggle to explain what I see through these welding goggles / sunshades I wear.

eddif

True that.
And this immediate desire and devotion to tell others you mention, especially family members, that they have found the Savior that happens the moment a person comes to know Christ as Savior is seen in the disciples as further proof in scripture that they indeed knew Him completely as the Holy Savior coming forth from God.
No Holy Spirit required to light the Spiritual fire to evangelize under those who come to know Him , when the Lord Himself, in the flesh, is in their midst.

Jhn 1:45
"Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

 

[Randy]

They only knew Jesus with a carnal knowledge, but yet did not know the Spiritual things until the day of Pentecost when they were indwelled with the Holy Spirt as then their Spiritual eyes and ears were opened to understand as Jesus taught them much more before He ascended up to heaven.

They did have learn much more to learn as Jesus stated the HS would guide them into further truths. . And as Jesus stated they knew the HS because it was with them and would be in them. On that day they would understand oneness for just as the Father is in Him (Jesus) Jesus will be in them. So not just in their minds but in their hearts they believed in Jesus. The Holy Spirit was with them. They had all been taught by God and listened and learned from the Father as well as the Fathers words that Jesus gave them. We know Jesus's teaching was not His own but from the one who sent Him. The one living in Him doing His work. But as it was written in the prophets strike the Shepard and the sheep will be scattered. They were all hidden in their room and not out in public before the resurrection. Shortly thereafter they were in the temple courts despite being warned by authorities not to teach the people anymore about Jesus. And they never stopped teaching the people the message of the gospels. "This is eternal life that they know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. A marked and noticeable change in the Apostles demeaner. So they were empowered from their baptism at Pentecost. They also later testified to the eternal life who was with the Father in the beginning. The one who came down to them. The one the creation was made through. I don't believe that had such depth while Jesus was with them. John the Baptist knew Jesus came down from above and speaks as one from above before the Apostles. He had to have learned that from God.

Their faith may of wobbled when Jesus was crucified but it never failed. They believed in their hearts in Jesus.

 

[Randy]

Jesus stated His sheep listen to His voice and He knows them. Thats not just of the mind but is of the Spirit

The crowd asked Jesus to tell them if He was the messiah. Jesus stated He did tell them but they didn't believe because they were not His sheep. He also stated all that the Father gave Him would come to Him and no one can come to him unless enabled by the Father. And in regard to His own Jesus stated to the Father they were yours and you gave them to me. All this was before pentecost. The many are invited but few are chosen.

 

[Randy]

They only knew Jesus with a carnal knowledge, but yet did not know the Spiritual things until the day of Pentecost when they were indwelled with the Holy Spirt as then their Spiritual eyes and ears were opened to understand as Jesus taught them much more before He ascended up to heaven.

What I see as a flaw in your statement is that apart from the Spirit they would not have been Jesus's sheep. So they knew with certainty as Jesus stated in His prayer to the Father He was from God and that His words came from God. Its also clear to me they did believe He was the Christ the Son of God in their hearts. Jesus also stated they knew the Spirit before it was in them because the Spirit was with them. They were not one with Jesus in spirit until Pentecost. And it is those that are born of God that God gave the right to be called the children of God. Jesus did tell them they were already clean because of the word He spoke to them. To me faith can come from hearing the word of God via the enabling of the Spirit then through that faith you reach out and receive Christ. Apart from the Father no one can believe in Christ in their heart and apart from Jesus no one comes to the Father.

 

[Randy]

When I read the word fear, as in fearing God, I see that word meaning respect God and His power and authority.

What do you all think?

If one fears God then they believe in God and a God who punishes the wicked. Otherwise they wouldn't fear something they didn't believe that exists.
As one who knows:
Paul before Felix stated, "have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

We know the resurrection of the wicked is to the 2nd death as in the lake of fire where God consigns the wicked. The same judgment given to Satan and his angels. And as is written in REV 20:10 they are tormented day and night forever. Their worm does not die and their fire is not quenched.

No change of mind from God as was shown with Esau. (Hebrews 12)
Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done.

So only the insane would choose this death. Unless they really don't believe the outcome given. To me those who really fear God would choose life.

 

[for_his_glory]

What I see as a flaw in your statement is that apart from the Spirit they would not have been Jesus's sheep. So they knew with certainty as Jesus stated in His prayer to the Father He was from God and that His words came from God. Its also clear to me they did believe He was the Christ the Son of God in their hearts. Jesus also stated they knew the Spirit before it was in them because the Spirit was with them. They were not one with Jesus in spirit until Pentecost. And it is those that are born of God that God gave the right to be called the children of God. Jesus did tell them they were already clean because of the word He spoke to them. To me faith can come from hearing the word of God via the enabling of the Spirit then through that faith you reach out and receive Christ. Apart from the Father no one can believe in Christ in their heart and apart from Jesus no one comes to the Father.

Sheep will heed the instructions of the Shepperd in guidance as they know the Shepperd's voice just as the disciples followed Jesus and were taught from Him personally face to face knowing He taught with all authority from God. But, if they truly knew Him as Messiah come to them instead of being just a Prophet/teacher and what He taught them about being crucified and God raising Him from the dead on the third day, don't you think instead of fearing for their own lives, as even Peter denied Him three times, that they, like John, would have witnessed His crucifixion instead of fleeing to the upper room behind locked doors in fear of the Roman guards taking them captive as followers of Christ? I would think there was a lot of uncertainty and confusion within them, but not so sure that they had much faith until they were indwelled with the Holy Spirit and were taught many more things by Jesus before He ascended up to heaven.

 

[for_his_glory]

If one fears God then they believe in God and a God who punishes the wicked. Otherwise they wouldn't fear something they didn't believe that exists.
As one who knows:
Paul before Felix stated, "have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

We know the resurrection of the wicked is to the 2nd death as in the lake of fire where God consigns the wicked. The same judgment given to Satan and his angels. And as is written in REV 20:10 they are tormented day and night forever. Their worm does not die and their fire is not quenched.

No change of mind from God as was shown with Esau. (Hebrews 12)
Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done.

So only the insane would choose this death. Unless they really don't believe the outcome given. To me those who really fear God would choose life.

I agree

 

[Randy]

Sheep will heed the instructions of the Shepperd in guidance as they know the Shepperd's voice just as the disciples followed Jesus and were taught from Him personally face to face knowing He taught with all authority from God. But, if they truly knew Him as Messiah come to them instead of being just a Prophet/teacher and what He taught them about being crucified and God raising Him from the dead on the third day, don't you think instead of fearing for their own lives, as even Peter denied Him three times, that they, like John, would have witnessed His crucifixion instead of fleeing to the upper room behind locked doors in fear of the Roman guards taking them captive as followers of Christ? I would think there was a lot of uncertainty and confusion within them, but not so sure that they had much faith until they were indwelled with the Holy Spirit and were taught many more things by Jesus before He ascended up to heaven.

You keep stating Peter denied Jesus 3 times. While that is true Peter denied as "I do not know the man" not as Christ or the Son of God. We know Peter knew Jesus. Therefore Peter "lied". I see fear for his life as cause. Peter was sifted by evil spirits. Jesus had before stated Peter knew from the Father that He was the Christ the Son of God. And Jesus beforehand prayed the Peters faith would not fail. Like John the Baptist I think under stress we ask for things we already know the answer. Jesus Himself spoke beforehand how He was going suffer and be lifted up and stated destroy this temple and He would raise it in 3 days. Yet in the garden He asked for the Father, if possible, to let that cup pass. The Apostles wouldn't even be Jesus's sheep apart from the Father giving them to Jesus. Jesus also stated they knew the Holy Spirit because He was with them before He was in them. I think we state stuff on the internet in the comfort of our homes. The Apostles had their very lives at stake.

Did you read Jesus's prayer in regard to His Apostles in John 17? His take on their faith.

For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

So we can know with certainty Jesus is Lord and Christ by the Holy Spirit (outward) before the inward dwelling of the Spirit. God has the ability to open our hearts to believe in Jesus. It's through that faith and inward belief in our hearts we received Christ and confess openly with our mouths. In fact no one comes to Jesus unless the Father enables them which He does by His Spirit.

As is written in the prophets.
‘Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the Lord Almighty.

So I believe the Apostle did know and believe Jesus was the Christ the Son of God., before they were born of God via the outward witness of the Spirit and Jesus's own teaching. They did hear His voice. Context -believed Him.

 

[for_his_glory]

You keep stating Peter denied Jesus 3 times. While that is true Peter denied as "I do not know the man" not as Christ or the Son of God. We know Peter knew Jesus. Therefore Peter "lied". I see fear for his life as cause. Peter was sifted by evil spirits. Jesus had before stated Peter knew from the Father that He was the Christ the Son of God. And Jesus beforehand prayed the Peters faith would not fail. Like John the Baptist I think under stress we ask for things we already know the answer. Jesus Himself spoke beforehand how He was going suffer and be lifted up and stated destroy this temple and He would raise it in 3 days. Yet in the garden He asked for the Father, if possible, to let that cup pass. The Apostles wouldn't even be Jesus's sheep apart from the Father giving them to Jesus. Jesus also stated they knew the Holy Spirit because He was with them before He was in them. I think we state stuff on the internet in the comfort of our homes. The Apostles had their very lives at stake.

Did you read Jesus's prayer in regard to His Apostles in John 17? His take on their faith.

For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

So we can know with certainty Jesus is Lord and Christ by the Holy Spirit (outward) before the inward dwelling of the Spirit. God has the ability to open our hearts to believe in Jesus. It's through that faith and inward belief in our hearts we received Christ and confess openly with our mouths. In fact no one comes to Jesus unless the Father enables them which He does by His Spirit.

As is written in the prophets.
‘Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the Lord Almighty.

So I believe the Apostle did know and believe Jesus was the Christ the Son of God., before they were born of God via the outward witness of the Spirit and Jesus's own teaching. They did hear His voice. Context -believed Him.

Peter Denies Jesus
Luke 22:54 Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house. And Peter followed afar off.
Luke 22:55 And when they had kindled a fire in the midst of the hall, and were set down together, Peter sat down among them.
Luke 22:56 But a certain maid beheld him as he sat by the fire, and earnestly looked upon him, and said, This man was also with him.
Luke 22:57 And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.
Luke 22:58 And after a little while another saw him, and said, Thou art also of them. And Peter said, Man, I am not.
Luke 22:59 And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.
Luke 22:60 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.
Luke 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Luke 22:62 And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.

Jesus Foretells Peter's Denial
John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.
John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

Jesus did tell the disciples about being crucified, but yet would be raised from the dead in three days

You keep stating Peter denied Jesus 3 times. While that is true Peter denied as "I do not know the man" not as Christ or the Son of God. We know Peter knew Jesus. Therefore Peter "lied". I see fear for his life as cause. Peter was sifted by evil spirits. Jesus had before stated Peter knew from the Father that He was the Christ the Son of God. And Jesus beforehand prayed the Peters faith would not fail. Like John the Baptist I think under stress we ask for things we already know the answer. Jesus Himself spoke beforehand how He was going suffer and be lifted up and stated destroy this temple and He would raise it in 3 days. Yet in the garden He asked for the Father, if possible, to let that cup pass. The Apostles wouldn't even be Jesus's sheep apart from the Father giving them to Jesus. Jesus also stated they knew the Holy Spirit because He was with them before He was in them. I think we state stuff on the internet in the comfort of our homes. The Apostles had their very lives at stake.

Did you read Jesus's prayer in regard to His Apostles in John 17? His take on their faith.

For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

So we can know with certainty Jesus is Lord and Christ by the Holy Spirit (outward) before the inward dwelling of the Spirit. God has the ability to open our hearts to believe in Jesus. It's through that faith and inward belief in our hearts we received Christ and confess openly with our mouths. In fact no one comes to Jesus unless the Father enables them which He does by His Spirit.

As is written in the prophets.
‘Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the Lord Almighty.

So I believe the Apostle did know and believe Jesus was the Christ the Son of God., before they were born of God via the outward witness of the Spirit and Jesus's own teaching. They did hear His voice. Context -believed Him.

I don't think that Peter was sifted by evil spirits, but only driven by fear as all the disciples were, except for maybe John, and scattered after Jesus was arrested just like Jesus said they would. Peter and the other disciples followed Jesus from far off as He was brought before Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin and then they scattered in fear. After Peter witnessed what Jesus went through in the hands of the Sanhedrin who spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands saying Jesus was guilty of death, I would assume that Peter felt like he too would be desecrated by the hands of the Sanhedrin and they is why he denied knowing Jesus three times, but the third time he felt quilty
as he wept.

Mat 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
Mat 26:32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.
Mat 26:33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended.
Mat 26:34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Mat 26:35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.


When you read the accounts of Matthew 26:30-75; Mark 14:26-72 and Luke 22:54-62 Jesus foretells Peter's denial of knowing Him then after Peter denied knowing Jesus three times Peter wept as he knew who Jesus was, but denied Him out of fear that he to would be punished as one of His followers.

 

[Randy]

Peter Denies Jesus
Luke 22:54 Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house. And Peter followed afar off.
Luke 22:55 And when they had kindled a fire in the midst of the hall, and were set down together, Peter sat down among them.
Luke 22:56 But a certain maid beheld him as he sat by the fire, and earnestly looked upon him, and said, This man was also with him.
Luke 22:57 And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.
Luke 22:58 And after a little while another saw him, and said, Thou art also of them. And Peter said, Man, I am not.
Luke 22:59 And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.
Luke 22:60 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.
Luke 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Luke 22:62 And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.

Jesus Foretells Peter's Denial
John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.
John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

Jesus did tell the disciples about being crucified, but yet would be raised from the dead in three days

I don't think that Peter was sifted by evil spirits, but only driven by fear as all the disciples were, except for maybe John, and scattered after Jesus was arrested just like Jesus said they would. Peter and the other disciples followed Jesus from far off as He was brought before Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin and then they scattered in fear. After Peter witnessed what Jesus went through in the hands of the Sanhedrin who spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands saying Jesus was guilty of death, I would assume that Peter felt like he too would be desecrated by the hands of the Sanhedrin and they is why he denied knowing Jesus three times, but the third time he felt quilty
as he wept.

Mat 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
Mat 26:32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.
Mat 26:33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended.
Mat 26:34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Mat 26:35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.


When you read the accounts of Matthew 26:30-75; Mark 14:26-72 and Luke 22:54-62 Jesus foretells Peter's denial of knowing Him then after Peter denied knowing Jesus three times Peter wept as he knew who Jesus was, but denied Him out of fear that he to would be punished as one of His followers.

Isn't your conclusion at the end what I stated? That is Peter lied about even knowing the man Jesus with the cause of fear.

 

[eddif]

Peter Denies Jesus
Luke 22:54 Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house. And Peter followed afar off.
Luke 22:55 And when they had kindled a fire in the midst of the hall, and were set down together, Peter sat down among them.
Luke 22:56 But a certain maid beheld him as he sat by the fire, and earnestly looked upon him, and said, This man was also with him.
Luke 22:57 And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.
Luke 22:58 And after a little while another saw him, and said, Thou art also of them. And Peter said, Man, I am not.
Luke 22:59 And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.
Luke 22:60 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.
Luke 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Luke 22:62 And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.

Jesus Foretells Peter's Denial
John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.
John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

Jesus did tell the disciples about being crucified, but yet would be raised from the dead in three days

I don't think that Peter was sifted by evil spirits, but only driven by fear as all the disciples were, except for maybe John, and scattered after Jesus was arrested just like Jesus said they would. Peter and the other disciples followed Jesus from far off as He was brought before Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin and then they scattered in fear. After Peter witnessed what Jesus went through in the hands of the Sanhedrin who spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands saying Jesus was guilty of death, I would assume that Peter felt like he too would be desecrated by the hands of the Sanhedrin and they is why he denied knowing Jesus three times, but the third time he felt quilty
as he wept.

Mat 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
Mat 26:32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.
Mat 26:33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended.
Mat 26:34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Mat 26:35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.


When you read the accounts of Matthew 26:30-75; Mark 14:26-72 and Luke 22:54-62 Jesus foretells Peter's denial of knowing Him then after Peter denied knowing Jesus three times Peter wept as he knew who Jesus was, but denied Him out of fear that he to would be punished as one of His followers.

Very good post.
The three denials were also not just about knowing Jesus as a person.
I agree fear was a great part.
First charge:
Peter was with Jesus he was an around / with Jesus.

Second charge:
You are of them. Meaning close association (believer?)

Third charge:
This man is the same nationality and also with Jesus (extending a much closer association).

Peters association was beins confirmed more and more.

Time was going by and Peter did at least not leave at the first charge.

Repentance is (this(episode!
Belief (after Resurrection)
Empowerment (at Pentecost)

This is a learning and empowerment trip for Peter.

thanks for posting the scripture.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

Isn't your conclusion at the end what I stated? That is Peter lied about even knowing the man Jesus with the cause of fear.

I agreed with you on that.