the doctrine of salvation

[Butch5]

What? You will have to explain why you would ask this question, what did I say that would lead you to this question?

Oh I think maybe I know.

Romans 13:11 - "for now our salvation is nearer than when we believed."
Luke 21:31 - "know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand"

Romans 13:11 - is speaking of our salvation being nearer as in the return of Christ.

Our salvation is Christ.

Yep, it's a process.

 

[Deborah13]

Yep, it's a process.

Nope, now you're just being cheeky, as you know that's not what I'm saying.

You are saved, redeemed, justified by Christ (WHO is our salvation) from the moment we believe in His saving grace.

We repent at the same moment (change our mind) about Jesus and Who He is. About our need for Him. Thus we obviously have changed our minds about who we are without Him, a lost sinner in need of grace.

"Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, because they believe not on Me" What sin, the sin of denying Christ.

 

[Davies]

Is it possible that you could support that from Scripture? There are many Scriptures that tell us to do things to be "right" with God.

Hi Butch5,

I tried to keep this short, but your question requires more than just a short post. So, I'll give you these verses:

Romans 3:19-26

New King James Version (NKJV)

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
God’s Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[a] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.


I think that covers it in a nutshell.


- Davies

 

[Deborah13]

Hi Butch5,

I tried to keep this short, but your question requires more than just a short post. So, I'll give you these verses:

Romans 3:19-26

New King James Version (NKJV)

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
God’s Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[a] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.


I think that covers it in a nutshell.


- Davies

It certainly does. Thanks for the post, Davies.

 

[farouk]

Yep, it's a process.

B:

No, it's not a mere process of getting nearer to the point where we might be called justified. Either faith justifies us (Romans 5.1), or it doesn't.

There is the Lord's future coming, when the believer's body will be caught up (1 Thess. 4).

 

[Butch5]

B:

No, it's not a mere process of getting nearer to the point where we might be called justified. Either faith justifies us (Romans 5.1), or it doesn't.

There is the Lord's future coming, when the believer's body will be caught up (1 Thess. 4).

Justification and salvation are two different things.

 

[Butch5]

Nope, now you're just being cheeky, as you know that's not what I'm saying.

You are saved, redeemed, justified by Christ (WHO is our salvation) from the moment we believe in His saving grace.

We repent at the same moment (change our mind) about Jesus and Who He is. About our need for Him. Thus we obviously have changed our minds about who we are without Him, a lost sinner in need of grace.

"Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, because they believe not on Me" What sin, the sin of denying Christ.

You won't find a single verse of Scripture that say one is saved the moment they believe.

 

[Butch5]

Hi Butch5,

I tried to keep this short, but your question requires more than just a short post. So, I'll give you these verses:

Romans 3:19-26

New King James Version (NKJV)

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
God’s Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[a] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.



I think that covers it in a nutshell.


- Davies

I'm not sure how those verse say or imply that there is nothing one does in salvation.

 

[Osgiliath]

Nope, now you're just being cheeky, as you know that's not what I'm saying.

You are saved, redeemed, justified by Christ (WHO is our salvation) from the moment we believe in His saving grace.

We repent at the same moment (change our mind) about Jesus and Who He is. About our need for Him. Thus we obviously have changed our minds about who we are without Him, a lost sinner in need of grace.

"Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, because they believe not on Me" What sin, the sin of denying Christ.

So in other words, it's YOUR BELIEF that saves, not Christ. Before your decision (and in spite of Christ's work), you were condemned. After YOUR decision, you had delivered YOURSELF from sin. As a formula it would read:

• Christ + nothing = nothing.
• Christ + Deborah = everything.

• If you say; "a sinner's condemnation is the sinner's own fault," you must then believe your own salvation is to your credit.
  
  
• If you say; "my salvation is nothing of myself," you must then believe a sinner's disbelief is not the sinner's fault.

It is religion that has added the word "possible" before the word "Savior." God never added that. They say that Christ only provided "potential salvation," but not "actual salvation." It is YOUR BELIEF that does the actual saving, not Christ.

But you are not saved BECAUSE you believe. That would mean that YOU are YOUR OWN savior. Personal belief is a reaction to salvation, not a cause of it. Otherwise, salvation is of personal belief, rather than of Christ. It's human nature to want to take credit for things, even salvation. But as Paul tells us:

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."