The earth restored

[jasoncran]

I prefer to at least study jewish idioms. It would make sense to understand the idioms of jewish culture then we can see the bible for what it does say. I wish the church would teach them.

taking the literal words of jesus out of context and or picking which words were literal is another irksome habit by some.

 

[Joe Domingo]

I prefer to at least study jewish idioms. It would make sense to understand the idioms of jewish culture then we can see the bible for what it does say. I wish the church would teach them.

taking the literal words of jesus out of context and or picking which words were literal is another irksome habit by some.

Got news for you man...
The Bible is interpreted a million different ways by a million different people.
I have learned a very hard lesson in my 35 years of following Christ.
The lesson I learned is that the world does not revolve around me. For the life of me I could not understand why people could not see things as clearly as I do when they read the bible! LOL
Then I grew up and became a man in the Lord. I realized if the Lord wanted everyone to see the same thing, think the same thing, understand the same thing, he would have made sure it happens.
In terms of Jewish idioms, well...if you understand them good for you and if you don't you wont go to hell over it.
And people change. I used to be deep into the whole Hebrew thing, I even learned how to read it on my own, these days, that doesn't matter much. I used to be real deep into who is a Jew and who is not, these days, I don't care lol
Guess what I'm saying is, if the Lord wants someone to understand something, it will happen.
That's why I just like to say what I say and then move on. Not in this forum or any other forum or even in person am I going to waste time debating.

 

[endtimesdeut32/70AD]

By linking the word 'crimes' to my statement does not give your view any more credit. I can see that you like to talk about the preterism perspective. I'm sure we could have some interesting exchanges because my view of Revelation might be considered a little of a blend.

Digging

I agree that 'crime' may have been a strong word. Error would have been better, but in contrast with Good truth and its good fruits, error is a crime.

 

[endtimesdeut32/70AD]

The elements will be burned away. Find that scripture.
- seven days of re-creation and the eight day begins eternity on the New Earth.

In the greek. Elements are the foundational pri
nciples of a system.

Barnabus write that they met on the 8th day in celebratiin of the new creation and new beginning in post 70AD.

How about chapter and verse for that.


JLB

Search the greek for 'elements' at blue letter bible. Barnabus' statements can be fiund on ccel; earlychristianwritings.com and preterist archive.

 

[endtimesdeut32/70AD]

Check your info about the masoretic texts. Much of it coincides with the dead sea scroll findings (Essenes), but parts are different. Eastern orth still uses the lxx as did the apostle Paul. Again, there are 1500 or so yrs of chronology missing from the masoretic text. The ECFs apparently uaed the lxx because the expected tge 6tg millenium to end in the 5th century.

 

[jasoncran]

well call me stupid then., while I do see that but uhm if jesus wasn't talking to the jews in the gospels about the end of isreal whom was he talking too?

 

[jasoncran]

Check your info about the masoretic texts. Much of it coincides with the dead sea scroll findings (Essenes), but parts are different. Eastern orth still uses the lxx as did the apostle Paul. Again, there are 1500 or so yrs of chronology missing from the masoretic text. The ECFs apparently uaed the lxx because the expected tge 6tg millenium to end in the 5th century.

I am well aware of that. note I said protestant. look up the fe book all use the Masoretic.

luke uses the lxx for genealogies and matthew used the Hebrew tanach of the day. both were Hebrew Not Hellenistic.

the lxx has jewish commenataries to it? that's odd the tanach of the Masoretic has no apochrya.

And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,
25 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,
26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,
27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,
28 Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er,
29 Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi,
30 Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim,
31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,
32 Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson,
33 Which was the son of Aminadab, which was the son of Aram, which was the son of Esrom, which was the son of Phares, which was the son of Juda,
34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,
35 Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala,
36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,
37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

luke 3

The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations

so why are these way different then whom the man joseph is son of? is it because of the lxx or the Masoretic? the sources they used are different.
so I have been told. I may be wrong but the source I know is well studied. I would have to ask him and get the sources he has to make that statement.

 

[Joe Domingo]

jasoncran not for nothing but...

Have you ever considered that the reason why the two genealogies are not exact is because one is for Mary and the other is for Joseph?

I came to that conclusion when I was about 20 years old all on my own. Later on I found several scholars who believe the same. I'm 45

 

[jasoncran]

I know that but the sources were chosen for a reason. the lxx has the genealogies a bit different then the Masoretic text.

so I have been told..

well I will ask. why does the greek name for God is kyrios and the Hebrew name given is YHWH?

one means Lord and the other means a ton of different things. but nah lets not really try to go there. the later has the idea of mercy and grace and its where we get yah saves or Jesus from.

 

[JLB]

well call me stupid then., while I do see that but uhm if jesus wasn't talking to the jews in the gospels about the end of isreal whom was he talking too?

Jesus was speaking to all His Church, who were present there with Him, privately, as well as all who would read these scriptures.

All His Church!


35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming--in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning-- 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!" Mark 13:35-37


JLB

 

[Joe Domingo]

well call me stupid then., while I do see that but uhm if jesus wasn't talking to the jews in the gospels about the end of isreal whom was he talking too?

Jesus was speaking to all His Church, who were present there with Him, privately, as well as all who would read these scriptures.

All His Church!


35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming--in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning-- 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!" Mark 13:35-37


JLB

Agreed. Jesus told his Apostles go and teach the nations. That's ME :D

 

[jasoncran]

if he was speaking to us then why is the word you standing here used?
watch for what? what signs? you don't see that theres any tribulation is isreal so that cant be used by you unless you changed your position.


I know that we can glean from that book. but really what do you make of this?
revalation 18:20

Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

and well consider

matthew 23

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate

so we have apostles these days?

 

[jasoncran]

I take the words last days of isreal. I see no return of isreal to the land in the nt as prophecy.

 

[jasoncran]

yes I agree with that part , duh. but well if we that are alive at his coming. why did paul then think that he would see the lord's coming? we means that includes him.

has the world ever really been fully convinced of the gospel? to that there would be some great falling away?

yet.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

matthew 7

matthew 25

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh

that hasn't happened yet. what was the reason for the flood? the earth in pauls days was just as wicked as it is now.

if you doubt I can post the same sins that rome did and show you that in America and the west its still done and was done long before the gay rights movement.

 

[Joe Domingo]

I agree as well that Jesus was addressing his Apostles directly. But we knowing that Jesus is God and is able to see the future - I can't help to think he was addressing us as well. Perhaps he is addressing all of time generation to generation as different events apply...

 

[endtimesdeut32/70AD]

yes I agree with that part , duh. but well if we that are alive at his coming. why did paul then think that he would see the lord's coming? we means that includes him.

has the world ever really been fully convinced of the gospel? to that there would be some great falling away?

yet.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

matthew 7

matthew 25

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh

that hasn't happened yet. what was the reason for the flood? the earth in pauls days was just as wicked as it is now.

if you doubt I can post the same sins that rome did and show you that in America and the west its still done and was done long before the gay rights movement.

I think you would understand that there are many who understand these parts as referring to first centuy events also ??

The ones taken were the ones who stayed in judea when the flood of roman armies came. The ones who remained were the "meek" who after suffering persecution of the jews and Romans, fled Judea and then inheirited and returned to the land (some and for a time) along with their offspring. I believe the association with the days of Noah is that the ones who were saved were the ones of faith in Jesus' words who fled Judea at the right time.

 

[JLB]

And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!" Mark 13:35-37

And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!" Mark 13:35-37


JLB

 

[jasoncran]

yes I agree with that part , duh. but well if we that are alive at his coming. why did paul then think that he would see the lord's coming? we means that includes him.

has the world ever really been fully convinced of the gospel? to that there would be some great falling away?

yet.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

matthew 7

matthew 25

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh

that hasn't happened yet. what was the reason for the flood? the earth in pauls days was just as wicked as it is now.

if you doubt I can post the same sins that rome did and show you that in America and the west its still done and was done long before the gay rights movement.

I think you would understand that there are many who understand these parts as referring to first centuy events also ??

The ones taken were the ones who stayed in judea when the flood of roman armies came. The ones who remained were the "meek" who after suffering persecution of the jews and Romans, fled Judea and then inheirited and returned to the land (some and for a time) along with their offspring. I believe the association with the days of Noah is that the ones who were saved were the ones of faith in Jesus' words who fled Judea at the right time.

No I wouldn't I am not a full preterist. there will be a worldwide judgement of men. just what method is used hasn't been revealed. some say fire. I cant be a water flood.

 

[endtimesdeut32/70AD]

But do you understand there are some who understand those verses in a cintinuation of the context if his answers concerning the temple and end of that age and the signs of his coming to prepare them to flee? That's all I was getting at.

And can you understand ( though perhaps not agree) how they would understand those words and perspectives?

 

[jasoncran]

yes that is gentry's position. the reason I disagree is that with 2 peter 3.. if the church is the righteousness to come then well that is well off for when peter wrote that the church was already in place and purchased.