Bible Study The Established Law.

[Eugene]

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Hi again Brother Chopper. On your quote of Rom 8:4, just Who is fulfilling the righteousness of the law IN US (not by us)? Is it not our Father that sent His Son Jesus, and according to Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. I just can’t imagine blood in a steak being something justifying us in any manner. It never made those under those laws righteous; they still needed sacrifice.

 

[Chopper]

Morning Brother Chopper, could we possibly consider that to mean to the Jew there was no way to keep His statutes. In other words was cooked blood any better than rare blood? There was still a sacrifice pointing to our Savior needed.

The young ruler coming to Jesus asking what he must do to be saved, or inherit eternal life said he had kept all the commandments, and Jesus didn't correct him, but added that he needed yet something else in Luk 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. Again the consequence of the ministration of death showing itself forth in those that would find any justification in it.

It may be that I've only had 1 coffee old Buddy but you lost me on that one.

 

[Chopper]

Hi again Brother Chopper. On your quote of Rom 8:4, just Who is fulfilling the righteousness of the law IN US (not by us)? Is it not our Father that sent His Son Jesus, and according to Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. I just can’t imagine blood in a steak being something justifying us in any manner. It never made those under those laws righteous; they still needed sacrifice.

God is very serious about eating the blood of animals because life is in the blood. It has nothing to do with righteousness.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

could we possibly consider that to mean to the Jew there was no way to keep His statutes.

I agree the law was definitely that.....a set of mandates that demonstrate how we can not consistently do what God says, because of sin. But in this matter of blood, I see it in the way we understand the law prohibiting the people of God, except the High Priest, from going behind the curtain:

"7but into the second, only the high priest enters once a year, not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins of the people committed in ignorance. 8The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing" (Hebrews 9:7-8 NASB bold mine)

There were various laws that actually limited our relationship with God, and with each other. That seems so contrary to what God wanted for his people, but it is exactly what he had in mind for the law to do--limit our access to him and his people. Paul talks about these laws being barriers (Ephesians 2:11-17 NASB). Laws that limit our access and nearness to God's grace and the community of his people.

Using the author of Hebrews explanation for the reason for the particular barrier of the curtain (see above), we see that these laws limiting our relationship with God shows that the full access to God is not possible by way of law. IOW, as long as you're relating to God through a sense of law, the way into the fullness of God's presence and grace is not open to you. It's only possible to have full access to God and his grace through faith in Christ. In that relationship there is no prohibition from going behind the curtain.

So I view the prohibition against eating blood (Leviticus 17:10 NASB) the same way. It's an illustration of how law cuts you off from the life of God, not brings you into it, just as the prohibition to not go behind the curtain was an illustration of law preventing access to the full grace of God. The blood is where the life is (Leviticus 17:11 NASB). As long as you are relating to God through law, and not in faith in Christ, you do not have access to the life giving atonement of the blood sacrifice. But in Christ that prohibition is taken out of the way and you can drink the blood of the sacrifice where the life is (John 6:53 NASB).

The law against eating blood is showing that when you are under the law (that is, relating to God in a sense of law as opposed to relating to God through faith in Christ) there is no access to the life of Jesus by way of law. Only by the way of faith in Christ can the worshiper have access to the life of the sacrifice found in the blood.

If you relate to God through law the blood can only be applied outwardly in a sprinkling of the blood for a temporary outward cleansing. But when you relate to God through faith in Christ the life giving blood is applied inwardly for a through and through permanent inward change and cleansing. Only in the new way of faith in Christ can the worshiper eat the blood where the life is and have it's full benefit, inwardly, just as only in the new way of faith in Christ can the worshiper go behind the curtain where the presence and mercy of God is in it's unhindered fullness. The law shows us that until you come into the new way of faith in Christ to relate to God you will remain restricted from having the full benefit of God's grace behind the curtain, and in the blood of the sacrifice.

With all that said, that's why I consider it okay to eat the blood in this New Covenant (meaning the left over blood of our steaks). Not eating the blood has no intrinsic value in and of itself that the people of God should have to continue to not eat blood in this New Covenant, just as going behind the curtain had no intrinsic value in and of itself that the people of God should not do that in this New Covenant either (if the temple were still standing).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

God is very serious about eating the blood of animals because life is in the blood.

And I exhort you to be faithful to that conviction. It is important that you be true to your convictions, and that others not cause you to stumble regarding them.

But, hopefully, you will be set free by the explanation I just gave of why I don't avoid the bloody residue of my steaks, and that you will find release from the literal prohibitions of the law designed to illustrate how relating to God through the law, instead of faith, limits our access to the full grace and mercy of God. Just as the author of Hebrews shows us that the prohibition to not enter behind the curtain was simply an illustration of how relating to God through the law, as opposed to relating to God through faith, limits your access to God's mercy and grace, not opens it up for you.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Hopefully, we can talk about the setting aside of these particular worship regulations is not a trampling and a destroying of those laws (Christ did not come to do that--Matthew 5:17 NASB), and that faith does not violate them, but upholds them (Romans 3:31 NASB --the OP of this thread).

God looks at us in Christ and says, "I see no violation of law here". Even though we are eating blood and not keeping the literal Sabbath, and doing, and not doing, a lot of other things in the law. The two reasons for him being able to say that is 1) faith in Christ satisfies some of those requirements so that there is no outstanding debt remaining regarding those laws (the requirement for Sabbath Rest for instance), and 2) faith in Christ makes it so we are changed into new creations for whom the law simply does not apply so as there to be no violation of those laws (the law's requirement that only the circumcision be in covenant with God being an example).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What I have found out about the law is it's almost futile to explain it to people. It can be kind of complex, and most people already have their preconceived beliefs about it. One has to work through a lot of erroneous understanding that the church has been handing down generation to generation for many centuries before you can open them up to true understanding. So I've come to the conclusion that one has to find the truth about the law (and OSAS, and other things, lol) on their own. And the most I or anybody else can do is drop a few seeds here and there along the way to help them do that.

I honestly think it is by God's design that this matter of the law be so completely bungled and misunderstood and abused in this New Covenant by us gentiles, just as it was by design that he allowed the kingdom of Israel to be split in two. What we gentiles have done to the law is being allowed to provoke the Jews to jealousy for their law and their God. God is in this confusion we've made concerning the law. He is accomplishing his agenda despite our error of understanding about the law.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We do not 'keep' the law of Moses in a literal to-the-letter-of-the-law way. We who have faith in Christ 'uphold' the law in that we are not guilty of violating it's requirements. We are not guilty of violating it's requirements for the two reasons I gave above in post #26. Some simply do not apply to new creations in Christ, and others Christ's sacrifice satisfies completely for us.

We can look at any law and see how it is that, even though we don't keep it to the letter, we are not guilty of violating it.

 

[rpguy]

Good morning rpguy, do you know any outside of Christ that are considered righteous biblically? Thanks.

Rahab the prostitute?

Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

 

[ezra]

God is very serious about eating the blood of animals because life is in the blood. It has nothing to do with righteousness.

how so ? law points toward sin

 

[Chopper]

Ok Jethro. I hadn't taken into consideration what you wrote. I'll have to consider seriously your position.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ok Jethro. I hadn't taken into consideration what you wrote. I'll have to consider seriously your position.

Open ears and an open heart is the most valuable study tool you and I have. Your heart is so refreshing in these forums.

 

[rpguy]

We do not 'keep' the law of Moses in a literal to-the-letter-of-the-law way. We who have faith in Christ 'uphold' the law in that we are not guilty of violating it's requirements. We are not guilty of violating it's requirements for the two reasons I gave above in post #26. Some simply do not apply to new creations in Christ, and others Christ's sacrifice satisfy completely for us.

We can look at any law and see how it is that even though we don't keep it to the letter, we are not guilty of violating it.

Do you still uphold the 10 commandments, because the full requirement of the Sabbath is in them.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you still keep the 10 commandments, because the full requirement is in them.

I am in no violation of any of the Ten Commandments.
For two reasons.
One of the Commandments Christ's sacrifice has satisfied for me completely and totally forever. And when I stumble in regard to the rest I have Christ's sacrifice to forgive me and get me back on track just as if I'd never violated them (which, ironically, was not possible under the law--Acts 13:39 NASB). That is not a license to live as a matter of unrepentant lifestyle in regard to those laws as some think it is. It means Christ erases my debt to do those things through his forgiveness when I fail to fulfill them....and even gives me power through the Holy Spirit to do them!

 

[th1b.taylor]

I am in no violation of any of the Ten Commandments.
For two reasons.
One of the Commandments Christ's sacrifice has satisfied for me completely and totally forever. And when I stumble in regard to the rest I have Christ's sacrifice to forgive me and get me back on track just as if I'd never violated them (which, ironically, was not possible under the law--Acts 13:39 NASB). That is not a license to live as a matter of unrepentant lifestyle in regard to those laws as some think it is. It means Christ erases my debt to do those things through his forgiveness when I fail to fulfill them....and even gives me power thbe rough the Holy Spirit to do them!

AMEN! Now, if I could just get that into the heads of the Pew Whales the World might be brought yo the foot of the Cross. Great explanation, brother.

 

[Eugene]

Eugene said: ↑
Good morning rpguy, do you know any outside of Christ that are considered righteous biblically? Thanks.

Rahab the prostitute?
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Hi again rpguy. I do see what you're saying without all references applied.
The following scripture takes it a bit further to align it with Eph 2:8-9.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Heb 11:31 By faith (She believed) the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

 

[Chopper]

Thank you special Brother Jethro. Since your post, I have done some study on consuming the blood of animals. YOU ARE RIGHT. A rare steak is fine to eat if that's your boat to float. It's just that early in Leviticus when God was explaining His rules for Israel, consuming the blood of animals seemed so very important to God because of the life importance.

Your explanation was very biblical and informative. I could follow your reasoning and because of our deep friendship and respect for each other, I knew you wouldn't be giving out false theology. You're a favored man of God Jethro, may He bless the rest of this day, and touch you with a miracle that I've been praying for you.

 

[Chopper]

Open ears and an open heart is the most valuable study tool you and I have. Your heart is so refreshing in these forums.

Thank you my good friend for those special words of kindness from your heart to mine. I believe what you say because I trust and love you.

 

[Corn Pop]

If anyone says the law is done away with they are claiming God's word doesn't stand forever and are making Isaiah a false prophet. The Word of God to Isaiah is everything God said up to Isaiah and he said the word of God shall stand forever, eternal established, never to be done away with.

Isaiah 40:8
The grass withereth, the flower fadeth:But the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Peter quotes Isaiah

1 Peter 1:23-25
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

 

[Jim Parker]

For a long time now, I have been bothered by statements of fellow Believers that God's Laws are no longer valid because they are fulfilled by Christ Jesus. Although that's true, aren't we missing something?

It is true that Jesus fulfilled the law.
But we need remember that the said:
Mat 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.

Some of the law was for Israel only.
Jesus fulfilled all the laws of the sacrificial system of the tabernacle/temple.
Heb 9:26b... but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
We no longer have need of a Levitical priesthood.
Heb 9:11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
The food restrictions have been canceled. (Mark 7:18-19)
The Sabbath was a sign between Israel and God. (Exo 31:13)


But the commandments about acting in love toward all of mankind are encompassed in Jhn 13:34, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another." As God's adopted children we are to be merciful as our Father is merciful.

iakov the fool