Bible Study The Established Law.

[Chopper]

If anyone says the law is done away with they are claiming God's word doesn't stand forever and are making Isaiah a false prophet. The Word of God to Isaiah is everything God said up to Isaiah and he said the word of God shall stand forever, eternal established, never to be done away with.

Isaiah 40:8
The grass withereth, the flower fadeth:But the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Peter quotes Isaiah

1 Peter 1:23-25
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

You are absolutely right my friend. The Word of God, ALL OF IT has good life changing power, and warnings to stay away from that which will harm us. We Believers must study the Word to discover both sides. Yes. God's Word will endure man's unbelief and always be a light for us to follow all the way to the Kingdom.

 

[Chopper]

It is true that Jesus fulfilled the law.
But we need remember that the said:
Mat 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.

Some of the law was for Israel only.
Jesus fulfilled all the laws of the sacrificial system of the tabernacle/temple.
Heb 9:26b... but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
We no longer have need of a Levitical priesthood.
Heb 9:11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
The food restrictions have been canceled. (Mark 7:18-19)
The Sabbath was a sign between Israel and God. (Exo 31:13)


But the commandments about acting in love toward all of mankind are encompassed in Jhn 13:34, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another." As God's adopted children we are to be merciful as our Father is merciful.

iakov the fool

Thank you Jim for your response. Especially, thank you for your instruction with verses....

The food restrictions have been canceled. (Mark 7:18-19)
The Sabbath was a sign between Israel and God. (Exo 31:13)

These two statements of yours certainly breath peace into area's of great controversy by some untaught folk. I have noticed that some food restrictions are there to protect us from getting sick.

Again, thank you!! You are one of those wise men that I rely on for good biblical teaching.

 

[smaller]

The short lesson on all Biblical Law, which has NOT been set aside, is this:

The Law is and will remain against all evil and sin, period, end of conversation. And this is permanent/forever.

The difficulty that "we" as believers have with law is that law points us to the fact of the evil present with us and the sin indwelling our flesh, Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:17-21.

The indwelling sin and evil present with NO PERSON can be legal, obedient, faithful, etc. It's not possible. It's not even in the cards.

And this fact brings us precisely into salvation by faith in God in Christ through His (unmerited on our part) Grace and (unearnable on our part) Mercy.

Paul quite precisely nails this point hard, when he exposes the fact that when he does or seeks to do good, that evil remains present with him. Romans 7:21. This hard line fact eliminates any claims of "works salvation." Period.

Evil present with us can't be legal. Anyone who thinks evil present doesn't exist with them at all times or that their evil present is legal has actually been deceived by that evil present/indwelling sin and will usually then fall into salvation via works, self justifications, hypocrisy, and lies about having evil present/indwelling sin. This state is actually WORSE than the state of an unbeliever. And Jesus decried the lying hypocrites to the uttermost.

BUT THEY DID NOT HEAR.

So, be careful when you play the "I am legally obedient" game because there is a deep trap set there, quite purposefully by the scriptures, to PROVE how vile indwelling sin and evil present can really be.

I've seen a LOT of believers fall headlong into the above, and their blindness is progressively amplified. It invariably results in believers condemning other believers to possible hell over LAW or OBEDIENCE issues. Which is where most "legalists" end up.

Pitiful place, all of that. It is NOT easy to "get out" of that mindset. Most legalists go to their grave with it, with self justifications of themselves and a mouthful of condemnation to other believers seared into their minds.

I suspect their cleanup/fire judgment process may take a little extra time, post death.

1 Cor. 3:
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Knowing this, who are you trying to make better? The Spirit of God is Perfect. Our works will, by nature of our binding with indwelling sin and evil present with us, be categorically wanting in every case of applications. And exactly NONE of these categorically wanting works are capable of saving us, ever.

We do works because of Who Is In us and they please our hearts to do so in the here and now. The reward is instant. Who has not "felt" their good works warm their hearts? That is God In us, warming.

But to claim these things save us? Never. What a shame to say that such lesser things, tainted by our state in sin and evil save us. What a JOKE. Dragging God in Christ down to that level.

God has saved us through unmerited Grace and Mercy in Christ. He did for us what we could not do for ourselves, pre or post salvation.

 

[ezra]

since we are kicking around the subject of law i just read this regarding keeping the Sabbath .i find it very interesting and truthful
http://www.crosswalk.com/home-page/todays-features/is-it-biblical-to-observe-the-sabbath-on-sunday.html?
Is it Biblical to Observe the Sabbath on Sunday? ..Rather long may have to make 2 post
Dear Roger,

We worship on Sunday. I’m worried we are violating God's 4th command to keep the Sabbath Holy. I can't find any Biblical reference why we changed. Can you help?

Thanks, Gil

Dear Gil,

The Sabbath, was given to Israel, not to the church. The Sabbath is still Saturday, not Sunday, and has never been changed. The Sabbath runs from Friday night at sunset to Saturday night at sunset. The Sabbath is part of the Old Testament Law and as a result most Jews still worship on the Sabbath. On the other hand, Christians are free from the bondage of the Mosaic Law, and thus free from worshiping on the Sabbath, “…for sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace” (Romans 6:14).

It is well to note that every one of the Ten Commandments is included somewhere in the New Testament except the command to obey the Sabbath.

God still has an eschatological plan for Israel. He has a different eschatological plan for the Christian church. The plans are not the same. His plan for Israel includes worshipping on the Sabbath. His plan for the Christian church allows Christians to worship on any day that they so choose.

“Therefore, do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day” (Colossians 2:16 -17).

“One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5).

Because Jesus arose from the dead on the first day of the week, Sunday, those early Christians called it the "Lord's Day" (Revelation 1:10), and regularly met for their Christian worship on Sunday (Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2).

The transition from worshipping on the Sabbath to worshipping on Sunday did not occur immediatey.

When non-Jews began to convert to Christianity, there was much dispute about whether Gentile Christians had to observe the Jewish laws about circumcision, dietary restrictions, Sabbath observance, and so forth, before they could become Christians. About 20 years after his conversion, Paul, Peter, James and other Church leaders met at the "Council of Jerusalem" and decided that it was not necessary for Christians to observe the Sabbath rules and other Jewish laws (Acts 15:28-29, Romans 14:5-6, Colossians 2:16).

In the early centuries of Christianity, Constantine was the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity. In 321 A.D. he proclaimed Sunday a legal day of rest and ordered all judges, city-people and craftsmen to rest. Since that time, worshipping on the Lord’s Day has become normative for most Christians. The one exception is the Seventh-Day Adventists who still worship on Saturday.

Is the Sabbath an important commandment? Or is God just filling space on the tablet?

The Sabbath command takes more words to discuss than any of the other ten.

God needed only four words to tell us not to kill.

He needed 97 to tell us to remember the Sabbath day.

There is an eternal principle here that goes right back to the creation. God created and worked for six days and then rested on the seventh. If resting one day out of seven was good enough for God it ought to be good enough for us!

God never intended for us to live life at full speed, 24/7. He designed our bodies to need sleep every night and to take a day of rest every week.

He has woven a rhythm into the fabric of the universe.

And it goes “six days work, one day rest, six days work, one day rest.”

The world says, “Go, go go go go go faster.” (Notice the six and seven pattern).

God says, “go go go go go go rest.”

The biblical position is that we are no longer required to worship on the Sabbath. However, the principle of the Sabbath stands as an eternal principle of our need for rest.

Gil, let me share a few thoughts about applying the eternal principles of the Sabbath to us in our day.

“THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, NOT MAN FOR THE SABBATH” (Mark 2:27).

The Pharisees discovered 1,500 different ways a person could break the Sabbath.

The law said not to carry a burden on the Sabbath. So they argued over how big is a burden? Anything that weighed more than two dried figs was a burden. If you can’t carry a burden, can you drag it? How far?

You couldn’t spit on the Sabbath. If spittle hit dirt and made a little row, that was plowing.

You couldn’t light a fire nor quench a flame on the Sabbath. Recently a fire broke out in Jerusalem. Everyone ran to see the fire.

When some Orthodox Jews got there, they stoned the fire truck for putting out a fire on the Sabbath.

In the Sabbath we see the heart of God. God is no scorekeeper. Enjoying the Sabbath with rest and worship is more important than following any man-made religious rules.

THE WORD SABBATH IS SYNONYMOUS WITH REST.

If you don’t give your body a break, your body is going to break.

Bishop Gerald Kennedy of California’s Methodist church told of two groups crossing plains during migrations to California during gold rush days.

One group was led by a Christian who stopped every Lord’s day for worship and rest.

The other party was led by a non-Christian who was so motivated with gold fever that he refused to let them stop and rest.

The wagon train that rested and worshipped every seventh day arrived first in the gold fields.

Rest the mind as well as the body.

Sometimes I’ll be sitting with my son-in-law, Ricky. I’ll say “What are you thinking?” and He’ll say “Nothing.” And he’s serious. I love it! There’s nothing going on up there. He’s learned to quiet his mind. I am jealous. I’ve rarely had a mind that doesn’t go 100 miles per hour.

Resting on the Sabbath means taking twenty-four hours off every seven days.

For most of us this means five days at our job, one day working at home to get all the chores done, and one day with no work whatsoever. That is six days on and one day off.

Sometimes we think we can be like the Energizer Bunny—and just keep going and going and going. But the bunny is a fraud. They have to keep putting new batteries in.

Once upon a time Julie and I decided to light a candle during our day of rest to remind us to slow down and rest. After a few weeks we got too busy to light the candle. No one ever said that learning how to rest would be easy.

Have you ever noticed on a hot day that when you turn your gas grill on high, the propane tank gets cold? It’s because the tank is being decompressed.

According to the natural laws of compression and expansion, when we compress something like a gas or a liquid, it becomes very hot. Decompressing something has the opposite effect.

Life is like that. The more we compress into life the more heat it produces, and that heat comes in the form of stress and anxiety. The more we decompress the more enjoyment and fulfilled is life.

Even Jesus needed a time away to rest from his ministry of teaching and healing. We see in Luke 5:16 where Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed.”

He walked for weeks and the phone never rang. He got along just fine. He got everything done he needed to do.

SABBATH KEEPING IS ABOUT REMEMBERING.

The Ten Commandments are given twice in the Bible. The commandment regarding the Sabbath is the same in both places, but the reasons for the commandment are different.

In Exodus chapter twenty, the reason is tied to the rhythm of creation.

In Deuteronomy chapter five, the reason is connected to remembering all the great things God did for the people of Israel!

Sometimes we forget that we are eternal beings. There’s more to life than just making a paycheck and getting a promotion. I forget that I was created to be in relationship with my Creator.

I forget that I am a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17).

I need to remember that I was bought away from sin not with silver and gold but with the precious blood of Christ (1 Peter 1:18-19).

I need to remember that God allows difficulties for the good purpose of molding me to look like Jesus.

When pressures and trials come, it’s easy to feel we’ve been abandoned by God. The Sabbath reminds us that God has been faithful in the past, and that He will be faithful in the future.

GOD DESIGNED THE SABBATH TO BE OUR DELIGHT.

“… if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD's holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way … then you will find your joy in the LORD…” (Isaiah 58:13-14).

HOW DO WE KNOW WHEN WE’VE DONE THE SABBATH RIGHT?

Answer: “When we are no longer exhausted and mentally upset as we began another week.

No one snatches Sabbath Rest from us. We give it away by our choices.

Partner up with Jesus: “Come unto me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest” (Matthew 11:28).

Gil, I hope I’ve answered your question and even added a few extra thoughts that you may find helpful.

Love, Roger

Dr. Roger Barrier retired as senior teaching pastor from Casas Church

 

[Douglas Summers]

Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

For a long time now, I have been bothered by statements of fellow Believers that God's Laws are no longer valid because they are fulfilled by Christ Jesus. Although that's true, aren't we missing something? I'd like to pursue a Biblical investigation into the Law of our God in Christ. What exactly does it mean that the Law was fulfilled in Christ?

Since John Gill said that If someone wants to know the heart of God, study His Commands, Statutes, Rules and Law. That was several years ago, and recently Dr. Jerry Bridges said almost the same thing, "If you want to look into the heart's desire of our holy God, read/study Leviticus.

You know? I believe there's some truth to that. So, I'm wondering, what use is God's Laws for today. I know our righteousness is not based on adherence to God's Law thru Moses, and Jesus Christ fulfills the Law of God, do we just discard what came thru Moses as "old hat"? Or is there a practical use and benefit from what God felt was so important to Israel.

Jesus fulfilled the Law, what does that mean?

We uphold the law by letting it do what was intended (Rom. 7:12-14) The law never saved anyone. It was there to condemn sin in sinful man (that was it's purpose). So we uphold the law (or establish the law) by letting it condemn sin in sinful man so that it would send us to Christ. Old and New testament.

 

[Chopper]

We uphold the law by letting it do what was intended (Rom. 7:12-14) The law never saved anyone. It was there to condemn sin in sinful man (that was it's purpose). So we uphold the law (or establish the law) by letting it condemn sin in sinful man so that it would send us to Christ. Old and New testament.

Thank you Douglas. That's just what this thread is all about. There is a good side of the Law. 1. It shows the heart and pleasure of our God so that we know what He doesn't want His children involved with, and 2. When we heed His warnings, it pleases Him.

 

[Corn Pop]

Anything conditional is not of God. The law and commandments are the fruit of the serpant and Adams curse the world and religion have followed from Adam up to this day. There is nothing one can do to enter the pearly gates, its all a lie. Gods love is unconditional from the garden. Christ nailed the curse, the law, the serpants fruit, to the Cross and blotted it out.

There is no law to hold or anything to please or serve God. The true living God does not want to be worshiped, pleased, or served, only the crooked one does.

Everything is a lie. The letters is a curse.

God is unconditional love. The light and the truth is in the heart and mind.

"Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me and through the commandment put me to death. So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good"

And christians are grafted in to the book, and baptism, that only convicted.

Christ come to save from the letter. Everything Christ taught was opposed to the bible, and the bible says follow the law.

 

[Chopper]

Romans 7:7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

O my friend. I really don't know what gave you the idea that you would make a statement like this....

The law and commandments are the fruit of the serpent and Adams curse

....The above verse says the opposite! Sure, God's Law that came through Moses at Mount Sinai and was the result of sin entering into our world through Eve and Adam, but the Law was to provide mankind an opportunity to overcome sinful practices by providing a way for Israel to walk in a way that would please God instead of incurring judgment because of an ongoing practice of sin.

This is what the ravages of sin accomplished in the Nation of Israel....Ezekiel 2:3 "And he said to me, "Son of man, I send you to the people of Israel, to nations of rebels, who have rebelled against me. They and their fathers have transgressed against me to this very day.
2:4 The descendants also are impudent and stubborn: I send you to them, and you shall say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD."

Ezekiel was to prophesy to the Nation of Israel, the following....
5:5 "Thus says the Lord GOD: This is Jerusalem. I have set her in the center of the nations, with countries all around her.
5:6 And she has rebelled against my rules by doing wickedness more than the nations, and against my statutes more than the countries all around her; for they have rejected my rules and have not walked in my statutes.
5:7 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Because you are more turbulent than the nations that are all around you, and have not walked in my statutes or obeyed my rules, and have not even acted according to the rules of the nations that are all around you,
5:8 therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I, even I, am against you. And I will execute judgments in your midst in the sight of the nations.
5:9 And because of all your abominations I will do with you what I have never yet done, and the like of which I will never do again."

Please notice the words in color that I have placed in the verses, they are important, IMO, to see the importance of God's Laws, Statues, and Rules. Therefore, God made sure that Israel could not come up with any excuses that God would buy. They were guilty, and knew it and would suffer the consequences.

 

[Corn Pop]

Romans 7:7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

O my friend. I really don't know what gave you the idea that you would make a statement like this........The above verse says the opposite! Sure, God's Law that came through Moses at Mount Sinai and was the result of sin entering into our world through Eve and Adam, but the Law was to provide mankind an opportunity to overcome sinful practices by providing a way for Israel to walk in a way that would please God instead of incurring judgment because of an ongoing practice of sin.

This is what the ravages of sin accomplished in the Nation of Israel....Ezekiel 2:3 "And he said to me, "Son of man, I send you to the people of Israel, to nations of rebels, who have rebelled against me. They and their fathers have transgressed against me to this very day.
2:4 The descendants also are impudent and stubborn: I send you to them, and you shall say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD."

Ezekiel was to prophesy to the Nation of Israel, the following....
5:5 "Thus says the Lord GOD: This is Jerusalem. I have set her in the center of the nations, with countries all around her.
5:6 And she has rebelled against my rules by doing wickedness more than the nations, and against my statutes more than the countries all around her; for they have rejected my rules and have not walked in my statutes.
5:7 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Because you are more turbulent than the nations that are all around you, and have not walked in my statutes or obeyed my rules, and have not even acted according to the rules of the nations that are all around you,
5:8 therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I, even I, am against you. And I will execute judgments in your midst in the sight of the nations.
5:9 And because of all your abominations I will do with you what I have never yet done, and the like of which I will never do again."

Please notice the words in color that I have placed in the verses, they are important, IMO, to see the importance of God's Laws, Statues, and Rules. Therefore, God made sure that Israel could not come up with any excuses that God would buy. They were guilty, and knew it and would suffer the consequences.

The Law cannot do anything or please God and a way for Israel to walk with God.

The law is Adams curse and the serpant fruit from when he left the garden, from that time they had been following another God.

All God wants is fellowship and love is in the heart and mind. The Law or trying to obey God cannot get anyone closer to God and in the pearly gates of heaven that is in the heart and mind.

Our body is the temple of God.

As Christ said love God and your neighbours. That is back to the garden and fellowship with God and others within the heart, the last place people look. They keep looking to try obey and please God to get to heaven.

Anyone who is trying to obey the bible law is still living under the curse if Adam and the Law. Trying to be a good servant to God is only living under a curse and the law and the king of babylon.

Christ nailed the law, the curse, to the Cross, so people can find God within themselves, where he dwells, and can walk in truth and light.

The law of the bible, the world governments, and peoples are still living under the curse of Adam, thinking laws can bring peace.

God is not a judge like people think. Christ took away the worlds sin and fullfilled the Law. God has nothing to judge mankind on. Its back to the garden and fellowship with God. All God wants is the original fellowship that Christ walked that is in the heart and mind to walk in fellowship and in love and peace.

Yet people are still focused on law and pleasing God. Trying to obey God's hundreds of laws and rules is under law and the curse. How can people have faith in Christ of they still live under the curse of Adam, the really have no faith and think he failed because they are still living under Law.

Christs said Walk with God in fellowship. That is Love God and Neighbours. The law only brings a curse.

If people love God and the neighbours and find a part of God deep in there hearts that dwells with them, every human being, and walks in fellowship thats what Christ come to restore. Christ has taken away the sin of the world. God is not a judge.

Why do believers feel convicted and they have to obey some god's law in the sky that if they are good and obey will enter the pearly gates. God will judge the non believer. Thats not the real God. Thats conviction under law and not the real God. People are in the great white throne judgment.

Christ has taken away the sin of the entire world and God has nothing to judge mankind against.

 

[Chopper]

Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my Commands."

 

[Corn Pop]

Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my Commands."

What did Jesus say. Walk in fellowship with God and your neighbours not try obey rules to try get me into the pearly gates of heaven that is really in there heart and mind when someone finds it. If you walk in love all you will have is love. People are still walking in Adams curse under Law.

God's love is unconditional love and God cannot change. Back to the garden where the real God is.

If i have faith in Christ all i do is walk in fellowship and love with God within me and my neighbours. Let the light shine. Christ did not fail and he has taken away my sin. If Christ has taken away the worlds sin God has absolutaly nothing to judge me or anyone on. Its a empty court room.

God only sees perfection in this world. People can choose to live in heaven or hell.

Christ has raised us up.

All God ever wanted was fellowship. But now God has been turned into some God of laws who we must obey and worship and some people are better than others and more holy than others and kings and Queen and judges and rulers and laws and confusion so everything is a complete mess, thats not God, thats the crooked one.

All are made in the image of God and all are equal in God's eyes.

Carnal law is so great every human lives under it. Thats the beast that come from Adams curse. Thats the crooked ones system. Thats the world.

 

[Kidron]

We uphold the law by letting it do what was intended (Rom. 7:12-14) The law never saved anyone. It was there to condemn sin in sinful man (that was it's purpose). So we uphold the law (or establish the law) by letting it condemn sin in sinful man so that it would send us to Christ. Old and New testament.

Someone said to a believer...

"well, im not a christian like you are, but that does not mean im not as good as YOU".
"just whom do you think you are"???
"im as good as you"..

The Law says...... "yes, you are as good as some believers, and better then some.....but what are you compared to JESUS THE CHRIST".
You are a "filthy rag", you are a "lost sinner".......you are separated from God.

So, thats the predicament found by us all, soon enough, after we are born.
Thats the "Real Issue".
Sure, some are better then others, but none are sinless and THAT is the problem.
The problem is ... "How to become sinless"., "How to become RIGHTEOUS"< so that we can have eternal fellowship with a HOLY GOD.
So, the real issue facing humanity, is "how to get RIGHTEOUSNESS".
Thats quite a problem, and no amount of confessing your sin, .. and no amount of holding unto your faith, or washing in the nicest Baptismal pool in the Vatican, can DEAL with your SIN.
As sin, to be dealt with, has to be JUDGED.<
And until its dealt with.....until its GONE.....until its JUDGED... their is no RIGHTEOUSNESS found with you.

The "good news", is that God came here, lived as a human, felt our pain, understood our humanity, lived a sinless life, and GAVE HIS SINLESS LIFE on a CROSS in place of our sinful dirty one.
THAT, is how you solve the "problem" of = what will you do to be saved?.
What will you do to be forgiven.
What will you do, with all those sins.
WHAT WILL YOU DO< TO BE RIGHTEOUS so that a HOLY GOD can have fellowship with you and accept you?

Answer:- THE CROSS
THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO GOD, and that is because the bridge that welcomes us to the other side, that we may receive, so that we are ONE with Father God, is built with nails, a bloody savior, and a wooden cross.
And upon crossing that bridge with your TRUST IN CHRIST, you have gained GOD's very Righteousness, and thereby have entered eternally where you may stay .
There is NO Other WAY.
John 14:6

 

[Corn Pop]

The law stands forever but sin is done away with and God can not judge anyone. There is nothing for God to judge.

 

[Corn Pop]

What does scripture say because we dont get preached the truth. What did Jesus do at the cross. What does scripture say.

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"

"And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

There is no law to keep and no law to judge anyone against. Christ has declared the entire world innocent. Every single person.

The temple of God is within. The way to God. The new covenant.

They say lo here and lo there do not believe them.

Jesus was the perfect servant. There is no law to serve God or obey God or keep the commandments or anything. Thats religion living under Law thinking they can earn there way to heaven. Its Adams curse, the serpants fruit, convicted under the Law, serving and obeying and worshipping the King of Babylon.

 

[Nathan]

Is this Universal Salvation?

 

[Chopper]

Hi Dan, Please answer my question: What does this Scripture mean to you?....
1John 2:1 "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
2:5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:"

This thread of yours poses a question. Is Dan "In Christ" 2:5 or a liar, 2:4.

 

[Corn Pop]

Hi Dan, Please answer my question: What does this Scripture mean to you?....
1John 2:1 "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
2:5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:"

This thread of yours poses a question. Is Dan "In Christ" 2:5 or a liar, 2:4.

Jesus commandments are Love God and Love your neighbour. There not a commandment because he nailed all commandments to the cross. It is the way to God, although it was given as a commandment, you cannot love through being commanded to Love, just like the Law only brings bondage. And a command is living under a Law and/or rule. There is no carnal law, just spiritual Law that is pure love because Christ nailed all carnal Law to the Cross.

Sin revives when your trying to follow commandments.
"Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died".

Always guilty under law.
"Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do."

Decieved.
"For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death".


All commandments and laws are nailed away we walk in God's commandment that is spiritual Law because we want too not because have too. Jesus gave the way. God gives us love and we serve God in love through the spirit in the temple within ourselves where God dwells.


Not a ruler who demand worship and obedience and service. Christ was the perfect servant and Christ gave us a new way, new covenant, new command, to get to the garden, then nailed all carnal Law to the cross.

God is unconditional love, not a conditional god do this and that bow down, obey me, serve me, sacrifice to me, and i will open the pearly gates. Christ come and said follow me.

Sinless with no law.

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"


Who does not keep the commandments Paul was talking about. The people who do not Love. Because Love is Christs spiritual Law.

 

[Corn Pop]

No one is justified by the works of the law.

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."


"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Who is lawless, those doing the works of the law.


"because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression."

"For verily I say unto you, Till. heaven and earth pass, one jot or one. tittle shall in no wise pass from. the law, till all be fulfilled."

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"

As it is written "the time is fulfilled" and Christs coming was 'the end of the ages(heaven and earth)'.

"and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”


"Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself."

 

[Chopper]

No one is justified by the works of the law.

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."


"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Who is lawless, those doing the works of the law.

Is Christ against the law giver, 'god'. Jehovah cannot be his father.

"because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression."


Jesus didn't fullfilled the law, he was totally opposed to the law and nailed it to the Cross.


"For verily I say unto you, Till. heaven and earth pass, one jot or one. tittle shall in no wise pass from. the law, till all be fulfilled."

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"

As it is written "the time is fulfilled" and Christs coming was 'the end of the ages(heaven and earth)'.

"and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”


"Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself."

Listen Dan. As nice as I can be, I see that you are blind to the good part of the Law of Moses. I have already posted that. There are two sides to God's Laws, Statues, and Rules.

If I were to follow your theology, I would then go out and steal and do all of these things....
Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me.
20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
20:6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
20:7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
20:9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,
20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.
20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.
20:13 "You shall not murder.
20:14 "You shall not commit adultery.
20:15 "You shall not steal.
20:16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
20:17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's."

Come on now Dan, if you're going to throw out the Law, the above things are, according to you, are Ok to do.

 

[Nathan]

Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

For a long time now, I have been bothered by statements of fellow Believers that God's Laws are no longer valid because they are fulfilled by Christ Jesus. Although that's true, aren't we missing something? I'd like to pursue a Biblical investigation into the Law of our God in Christ. What exactly does it mean that the Law was fulfilled in Christ?

Since John Gill said that If someone wants to know the heart of God, study His Commands, Statutes, Rules and Law. That was several years ago, and recently Dr. Jerry Bridges said almost the same thing, "If you want to look into the heart's desire of our holy God, read/study Leviticus.

You know? I believe there's some truth to that. So, I'm wondering, what use is God's Laws for today. I know our righteousness is not based on adherence to God's Law thru Moses, and Jesus Christ fulfills the Law of God, do we just discard what came thru Moses as "old hat"? Or is there a practical use and benefit from what God felt was so important to Israel.

Jesus fulfilled the Law, what does that mean?

I conclude with a statement from Dr. Kenneth Wuest. "
Our Lord’s words: "I came not to destroy (the law and the prophets), but to fulfil.’ "
Translation: Or, of the Jews only is He God? Is He not also of the Gentiles? Yes, also of the Gentiles, if indeed there is one God, who will justify circumcision out of a source of faith and uncircumcision through the intermediary instrumentality of faith. Then are we making law of none effect through this aforementioned faith? Let not such a thing be.

Chopper, I believe your questions are valid.

I used to be one of those people who thought the law was not longer "valid". However, I think its normal and a good thing. When you were a baby your concern/thought was not on your parents commands. In fact, most of the time they responded to your "commands". There were times when you were disciplined, but you were "taught" your parents commands over time and came to understand them. Another thing is you found out your parents commands were different for you than they were for other kids, sometimes even your own siblings. Point being, a child only needs to know of their parents love to begin with, and will never understand their commands apart from it. So too, I believe many a believer simply has not reached that point of knowing what God's Commands are/for.

Fast forward to now, I understand His Commands to be eternal. Interestingly enough, that means they not only exist now, but will throughout eternity. In today's day, I believe His Commands are used for the same thing they have always been used for. To give us a stern warning, every where we turn, that points us to the need for a Savior. Believe it or not, believers still need this because the flesh is still there constantly seeking to draw you away.

But, as you pointed out, they are not a means to gain favor with God. Jesus "fulfilling" the law did that for us, and therefore eternally secured our right standing with God. Sounds simple, but it is. That is all that is meant by Jesus fulfilling the law.

The "use" they have for a nonbeliever is only what I pointed out above. For a believer, it helps us grow in God's love. The same as when we were growing up as a child and were old enough to understand why we got our hand slapped when we reached for the stove. Before we would have just done it because we wanted. Then, we would have done it to be a brat. Then, growing older, we understand that our parents were trying to keep us from being hurt.

None of God's Commandments are hurtful, or burdensome to the maturing believer. But, for the unbeliever and the mature believer, they can often seem like it. Taking that one step further, when we understand why God gave those Commands, we begin to understand how we obey them. A young child may understand that they should not put their hand on the stove because its hot, but as they mature they understand that there are times the stove is not hot, and one can put their hand on it to clean it. I used to get frustrated with my children sometimes when as they got older they would use the words "you told me not to do that" in reference to something I probably did tell them not to do.

Now days, they are older and they are able to reason. God's Commands are perfect. Nothing wrong at all with them. They will not gain you favor, nor keep you in it, anymore than I will love my kids more or less when they do or do not do the things I say. However, when I see my children obeying what I say it brings great comfort and joy knowing that they are safe as long as they do those things.

Most assuredly as long as we walk in this earth, in this body, we will keep on breaking God's Commands. Kind of stings to think of it like that, but its true. However, the beauty is, the fact they are still there(eternal), we see over and over God's love toward us because He cared enough to give the Commands and He cared enough to make a way for us when we broke them.