Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The Evil Of Islam

Actually, I've been told by Muslims that many of those verses are constrained by historical circumstances. I don't see much of a difference between the two. You should try talking to them instead of getting your information from polemic web sites. Uunlss you think anti-christian web sites are the best source of information on Christianity.

Actually, the verses are NOT constrained by history, though that is a convenient way to cover up the verses' pointedness by your Muslim friends. And they might have been told that at some point when it was convenient for their teachers to delude them.

What "polemic websites" would be "anti-Christian" and be a "source of information on Christianity"?:rolling Get your terms mixed up there?
 
That is true, but since I asked Hammer to prove it and Unbeliever got into the mix, it's on him to clarify it, since he appears to want to stand in for Hammer. No one has to clarify who is Christian and who is Muslim unless they are waffling on what Hammer said. And since you think Unbeliever's post included "necessary qualifications" I'd like clarifications on that also. It was and is an untrue statement and muddying up the waters doesn't make it any less so.
I don't think you're understanding The Unbeliever's point. If anything, he is on your side. All he is doing is pointing out that it is necessary to define what one means by "Christian" and "Muslim." By "Christian" do we mean those who merely claim to be Christian, those who are truly Christian, Catholics, Protestants, fundamentalists, extremists, etc.? By "Muslim" do we mean all Muslims, extremists, Sunni's, Shiites, etc.?

I'm fairly certain that many in the largely Muslim Middle East view America as a Christian nation. So when America goes to war over there, they view it as Christians or Christianity coming to make war Islam.

Your very request for Hammer to "prove it" seems to imply that although you may disagree about the ratio, you also disagree about "Christians" killing "Muslims."
 
That is true, but since I asked Hammer to prove it and Unbeliever got into the mix, it's on him to clarify it, since he appears to want to stand in for Hammer. No one has to clarify who is Christian and who is Muslim unless they are waffling on what Hammer said. And since you think Unbeliever's post included "necessary qualifications" I'd like clarifications on that also. It was and is an untrue statement and muddying up the waters doesn't make it any less so.
I was merely outlining the necessary conditions to even begin having such a conversation. I took no sides on the matter. Please read more carefully. Thank you.
 
Actually, the verses are NOT constrained by history, though that is a convenient way to cover up the verses' pointedness by your Muslim friends. And they might have been told that at some point when it was convenient for their teachers to delude them.
Actually, it is if they say it is, since it is the Muslim community that definitively interprets the Qur'an and hadith. Should I ignore Christian interpretations of the New Testament and just say it means what I think it means?

What "polemic websites" would be "anti-Christian" and be a "source of information on Christianity"?:rolling Get your terms mixed up there?
Exactly. The irony of your inability to see this with your own post is quite poignant.
 
tessiewebb free and unbeliever is correct. i was asked if i am a christian. the ignorance on judaism from christians astounds me and i was one of them too. so i can see his point.i miss gabe,. he was a good source on arabic and islam when he posted here and pulled no punches on islam.
 
tessiewebb free and unbeliever is correct. i was asked if i am a christian. the ignorance on judaism from christians astounds me and i was one of them too. so i can see his point.i miss gabe,. he was a good source on arabic and islam when he posted here and pulled no punches on islam.
Actually, it is if they say it is, since it is the Muslim community that definitively interprets the Qur'an and hadith. Should I ignore Christian interpretations of the New Testament and just say it means what I think it means?
Exactly. The irony of your inability to see this with your own post is quite poignant.

what it means is held like the interpretation of dreams is held - Yhwh holds , and gives to whom He pleases. (re joseph, daniel, paul, apostles, 1 JOHN , HEBREWS 1 or 3)
the definitions and meanings, intents and purposes, have been lost a lot , since very early on (before 300a.d.), so finding out the truth is, Yhwh given. (or not).
 
I don't understand why the Quran feels so out of context and small compared to the Old Testament, "Do you remember when David did this?" "Do you remember when Abraham did this?" It addresses the reader as if they had already read the old testament or something. I didn't get the same linear path as I got in the bible. There are many topics supposedly about Islam that are not in the Quran. As in no one can provide a surat to check its authenticity.
 
IMO, we need to be educating politicians, teachers, educators, atheists, everybody the true nature of islam while promoting and preaching the gospel message. We are not going to do that by being silent. Pamela Geller, Brigitte Gabriel and Joel Richardson have been sounding the alarm for years. What can we do? Write letters, educate everybody you know. The spirit of antichrist is alive in islam and will deceive many, even the very elect if it could. Here is a letter I wrote to my daughter's teacher after he said islam is a religion of peace. This is based on fact, not opinion, and anybody in their right mind will notice the Qu'ran is on par with Mein Kampf. Sorry for the length of the letter below, I hope it encourages you and gives you some basic understanding of islam
 
I believe learning institutions should be based on teaching observable facts and well established truths. So when my daughter came home and said they were learning about the Taliban, and recent world history, I was glad as we can learn from the atrocities and the evilness happening in the world at this moment. Unfortunately, she also added her teacher said that these groups were not representing Islam. I hope that wasn’t the case, and if it wasn’t no need to read on. If what my daughter said is representative of the message the teacher was trying to convey, please read on. I will convey established language and ideology in the Qu’ran which very quickly dispels that opinion. Other writings as equal to the Qu’ran is the Sunna. It is the example their prophet or messenger Mohammed set for all to walk in who follow Islam (see Sura 3:31 and Sura 33:21 speaking of Mohammed). The Sunna interprets the Qu’ran, and in some instances if there are inconsistencies between the texts, the example set forth by Mohammed take precedence. Without the Sunna, the Qu’ran cannot be properly understood or interpreted.

Other important writings to Islam is the “hadith literature”, which contains many writings of Islamic eschatology, or the end times. Within the hadith, also contain records, sayings and deeds of Mohammed. Again, his example is of the highest precedence to follow as Islam teaches he is the most perfect example of how to live Islam, and to question his actions, is to question and blaspheme Allah himself. Hence, that is why Muslims around the world riot every time Mohammed is defaced publicly because they view it as a direct insult to Allah himself.

Another very important aspect of Islam and their ideology is to understand “progressive revelation”. Progressive revelation is later verses will take precedence over earlier verses (see: Surah 16:101 and Quran 2:106) and is called “nasik”. Qu’rans in the back of their books, have charts of verses that are earlier revelation, and later verses that override the earlier texts. Here is an example:

Quran 2:122 “O Children of Israel, remember My favor which I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.”
Now that sounds nice and diplomatic, but when talking about eschatology and the end times, these verses take precedence on how to deal with Jews:
Sahih Muslim, Kitab al-Fitan wa Ashrat as-Sa'ah, Book 41, 6985: “Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour (the end times) would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.”

As you can see, there are two contrasting verses, and the latter revelation takes priority over the earlier one. Is there any wonder there is worldwide hatred against the Jews? Later verses I will include to demonstrate hatred against Jews, Christians and kufr’s, or unbelievers are as follows:

Quran 5:51 "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

Quran 4:91- If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant.

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran 9:5 “And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."
These are just a smidgeon of the hate filled verses in the Qu’ran to hate all those not of the faith, not only do these verses speak of fighting unbelievers, but there is a penalty of not achieving a higher status for those Muslims who are peaceful and do not take up the sword as taught in the following verse:

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

This is important to understand as striving and fighting do not speak of anything else except by physical means and is clearly speaking of Jihad.
As I already established, in Islam, Mohammed is the most perfect of human beings and to question him, is to blaspheme Allah himself. Is it any wonder then why millions of Muslims rioted around the world when that Danish cartoon was printed a few years back. So what example did Mohammed set for followers to all who proceeded him? Well, here it is:

Quran 33:50 “O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.”
 
The above verse is talking about slave booty from wars and forcing them into marriage. Again, Mohammed is the perfect example, and right now in the Middle East, ISIS is taking female POW’s and making them their wives and sex slaves. They are merely acting out the “perfect example” Mohammed set forth. Here is another one:

The Invasion of Banu Qurayza as you can read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza
details the events leading up to and the slaughter of 600-900 Jews after the angel Gabriel appeared to him and told him to attack the Jews. That is the modern day equivalent of David Koresh leading his followers to attack another town because “god” told him so with nobody else receiving revelation except for the prophet themselves. Very cultish like behaviour, and if you research the origins of Islam, it is the angel Gabriel who had to torment him into receiving his word. Again, the angel Gabriel never revealed himself to anyone else, except for Mohammed. Again, very cult like beginnings and a pattern repeated itself by the many cults of this past century. The war of Banu Qurayza was just one war out of over 60 wars he fought over a 20 some year period. Not very peaceful for a peaceful prophet wouldn’t you say? And you can further read here how Mohammed tore a women in two using two camels as he disagreed with a woman governor as they should be subservient to men. http://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Story_of_Umm_Qirfa

Lastly, and probably the most disturbing was the fact Mohammed was a pedophile. He took a 6 year old, Aisha, as a bride and consummated the marriage when she was 9 years old. This is an established fact from their writings and I will just link you to a wiki page where the majority of scholars and writings agree she was no older than ten. And those who disagree, there writings are not considered Islamic literature or not authentic hadith. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha As sick and repugnant this is, do not be confused this stuff is happening today as they are merely living out what their prophet Mohammed did. Here is a news report about the problem in the Arab world about older men taking child brides: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4406344,00.html

It is common knowledge and a simple google search that ISIS and Boko Haram are taking sex slaves. Why? Because the teachings are in the Qu’ran and the prophet Mohammed set the perfect example for all to follow afterwards. This is not foreign to Islamic scholars or new to Islamic scholars or its followers. In this video about the Danish cartoons that caused worldwide riots, at the 2:28 minute mark, the demonstrator shouted out taking the women as war booty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_kyNIevsIs
This is western Islam now in London, this mindset and ideology is not limited to the Arab nations, but encompasses all ideology around the globe. Again, Mohammed is the example, he took war booty and sex slaves, so do his followers.

I can really go on and on, and have learned tremendously lately about Islam and their religion, and it is not good. Islam has a bloody history wherever it follows with nothing but war and strife everywhere it flourishes. I tell people this story. There are two street corners in this world, one in Iran/Pakistan/Afghanistan or any other predominant run Islam country, and another one in Canada. On each street corner a sign is held up. In Canada the sign says, “Allah will rule.” In the Islam country, the sign says, “Jesus saves.” At which street corner are you most likely to be beheaded at or stoned at? The answer is clear, wherever Islam dominates, freedom of rights and expression are trampled on and eventually overpowered. That is the true face of Islam. The very name of Islam means “submission to Allah.” Western countries are already seeing the result of Islam infiltration with terrifying results. One need go no closer than googling or youtubing “islam in france” or “islam in England” to see the division and the trampling of rights by the minority upon the majority in the name of tolerance.

I will make it clear, I love Muslim’s. I teach my daughter to be loving, caring, compassionate and respectful to all, even Muslims though their ideology is hell bent on our destruction. We have an example to love as set by Christ, and I will never tolerate my children to be hurtful, mean or malicious in any ways to others of different faiths. Does not mean we cannot fervently and passionately disagree with their beliefs, but they were still created in the image of God and deserve kindness, dignity and respect. I pray the Lord reveals himself to them in a way Allah can’t.

There are many good Muslim’s who reject the Islam teachings on Jihad and warfare. So in actuality, by Islam standards, they would be considered bad Muslims. Good Muslims who are living out the Qu’ran are those groups such as ISIS, Boko Haram, Taliban, Muslim Brotherhood, stealth jihadists living amongst us trying to recruit as many members to Islam as possible. I find it incredulous we would never say Mein Kampf was a peaceful book, yet openly say and declare with all conviction that Islam and the Qu’ran is peaceful. There is more blood on the books of Qu’ran, in the name of Mohammed than any other movement, yet we cry peace, when there is nothing but clear evidence contrary to the fact. Why is that?

I thank you for the time, and hope at least a little bit more knowledge of Islam can provoke further thought and dialogue. If my daughter misrepresented or misunderstood what you said, I apologize for this long letter. If you have any questions or concerns, please call me.
Ryan
 
The above verse is talking about slave booty from wars and forcing them into marriage. Again, Mohammed is the perfect example, and right now in the Middle East, ISIS is taking female POW’s and making them their wives and sex slaves. They are merely acting out the “perfect example” Mohammed set forth. Here is another one:

The Invasion of Banu Qurayza as you can read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza
details the events leading up to and the slaughter of 600-900 Jews after the angel Gabriel appeared to him and told him to attack the Jews. That is the modern day equivalent of David Koresh leading his followers to attack another town because “god” told him so with nobody else receiving revelation except for the prophet themselves. Very cultish like behaviour, and if you research the origins of Islam, it is the angel Gabriel who had to torment him into receiving his word. Again, the angel Gabriel never revealed himself to anyone else, except for Mohammed. Again, very cult like beginnings and a pattern repeated itself by the many cults of this past century. The war of Banu Qurayza was just one war out of over 60 wars he fought over a 20 some year period. Not very peaceful for a peaceful prophet wouldn’t you say? And you can further read here how Mohammed tore a women in two using two camels as he disagreed with a woman governor as they should be subservient to men. http://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Story_of_Umm_Qirfa

Lastly, and probably the most disturbing was the fact Mohammed was a pedophile. He took a 6 year old, Aisha, as a bride and consummated the marriage when she was 9 years old. This is an established fact from their writings and I will just link you to a wiki page where the majority of scholars and writings agree she was no older than ten. And those who disagree, there writings are not considered Islamic literature or not authentic hadith. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha As sick and repugnant this is, do not be confused this stuff is happening today as they are merely living out what their prophet Mohammed did. Here is a news report about the problem in the Arab world about older men taking child brides: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4406344,00.html

It is common knowledge and a simple google search that ISIS and Boko Haram are taking sex slaves. Why? Because the teachings are in the Qu’ran and the prophet Mohammed set the perfect example for all to follow afterwards. This is not foreign to Islamic scholars or new to Islamic scholars or its followers. In this video about the Danish cartoons that caused worldwide riots, at the 2:28 minute mark, the demonstrator shouted out taking the women as war booty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_kyNIevsIs
This is western Islam now in London, this mindset and ideology is not limited to the Arab nations, but encompasses all ideology around the globe. Again, Mohammed is the example, he took war booty and sex slaves, so do his followers.

I can really go on and on, and have learned tremendously lately about Islam and their religion, and it is not good. Islam has a bloody history wherever it follows with nothing but war and strife everywhere it flourishes. I tell people this story. There are two street corners in this world, one in Iran/Pakistan/Afghanistan or any other predominant run Islam country, and another one in Canada. On each street corner a sign is held up. In Canada the sign says, “Allah will rule.” In the Islam country, the sign says, “Jesus saves.” At which street corner are you most likely to be beheaded at or stoned at? The answer is clear, wherever Islam dominates, freedom of rights and expression are trampled on and eventually overpowered. That is the true face of Islam. The very name of Islam means “submission to Allah.” Western countries are already seeing the result of Islam infiltration with terrifying results. One need go no closer than googling or youtubing “islam in france” or “islam in England” to see the division and the trampling of rights by the minority upon the majority in the name of tolerance.

I will make it clear, I love Muslim’s. I teach my daughter to be loving, caring, compassionate and respectful to all, even Muslims though their ideology is hell bent on our destruction. We have an example to love as set by Christ, and I will never tolerate my children to be hurtful, mean or malicious in any ways to others of different faiths. Does not mean we cannot fervently and passionately disagree with their beliefs, but they were still created in the image of God and deserve kindness, dignity and respect. I pray the Lord reveals himself to them in a way Allah can’t.

There are many good Muslim’s who reject the Islam teachings on Jihad and warfare. So in actuality, by Islam standards, they would be considered bad Muslims. Good Muslims who are living out the Qu’ran are those groups such as ISIS, Boko Haram, Taliban, Muslim Brotherhood, stealth jihadists living amongst us trying to recruit as many members to Islam as possible. I find it incredulous we would never say Mein Kampf was a peaceful book, yet openly say and declare with all conviction that Islam and the Qu’ran is peaceful. There is more blood on the books of Qu’ran, in the name of Mohammed than any other movement, yet we cry peace, when there is nothing but clear evidence contrary to the fact. Why is that?

I thank you for the time, and hope at least a little bit more knowledge of Islam can provoke further thought and dialogue. If my daughter misrepresented or misunderstood what you said, I apologize for this long letter. If you have any questions or concerns, please call me.
Ryan
Thank you for posting this, Ryan.
Lots of information in it that many need to understand.
 
How can you call a religion evil? Doesn't Jesus teach you to love your enemies?

200 years ago christians were also accountable for many despicable acts of imperialism and genocide.
 
You can love someone without loving what they do. It depends on who you ask, but my view is that those practicing Islam should be free to do so so long as they respect the rights and boundaries of others. I also acknowledge that peaceful Muslims exist. As do terrorists.
 
You can love someone without loving what they do. It depends on who you ask, but my view is that those practicing Islam should be free to do so so long as they respect the rights and boundaries of others. I also acknowledge that peaceful Muslims exist. As do terrorists.
I agree.
The Quran, pretty much says kill all people who will not submit to the rules of Islam.
I believe that when Mohammed wrote the Quran he was setting himself up as God and used the history of God and the nation of Israel as his support for his philosophy. Not that he had a correct view of what God did but that he could use it to promote his view.
I agree there are peaceful Muslims but they have to go outside of what their religion teaches in order to do hold the view of freedom of worship and teaching in a peaceful manner rather than by force.
 
How can you call a religion evil?
Any religion that deliberately perverts God's truth is evil and should be called evil. Muhammad was fully aware of the contents of the Bible, and perverted everything to set himself up as the final prophet, and Islam as the final religion. That is simply a lie from Satan.

Doesn't Jesus teach you to love your enemies?
Love your enemies but hate their lies and deception.

200 years ago christians were also accountable for many despicable acts of imperialism and genocide.
So? "Christians" (and these may have been Christians in name only) and all others will give account for their sins. Your concern should be you. You too will stand before God and give account. And finger-pointing will be of no avail.
 
Any religion that deliberately perverts God's truth is evil and should be called evil. Muhammad was fully aware of the contents of the Bible, and perverted everything to set himself up as the final prophet, and Islam as the final religion. That is simply a lie from Satan.


Love your enemies but hate their lies and deception.


So? "Christians" (and these may have been Christians in name only) and all others will give account for their sins. Your concern should be you. You too will stand before God and give account. And finger-pointing will be of no avail.
Everyone will give account of their sins.Believers and nonbelievers.
 
How can you call a religion evil? Doesn't Jesus teach you to love your enemies?

200 years ago christians were also accountable for many despicable acts of imperialism and genocide.

the quran is the doctrine of satan. there is no light in it. satan comes as an angel of light not as a demon or a devil. tho he is the devil he is seen as the light.

all his ways(pride,arrogance,lying,killing, self boasting,etc) are light to the children of disobience. but now christ the lord jesus, some call a devil in this world. how do they call jesus a devil? if they called one of his saints a devil they called him a devil. and what is his ways( mercy, justice and judgment, boldness)

for if a man kills your brother or mother and u avenge him tho u killed him some will say your killing is for a good cause. but christ says tho shall not kill, but if u kill a man as an order from the lord because that man did something extremely evil in the eyes of the lord like(bow to another god as the muslims do or etc) and u kill him the world will hate u but u was following the orders of christ. as david the king did in his days

but muslims believe they have a order from god to kill. tho god has not spoken with them. tho they are the weapons of is indignation the follow the way of their father and their god the devil
 
Back
Top