the first commandment

[Hopeful]

Are you going to spit on the ark of the covenant?

I would not spit on someone else's property.
As God promised I will never be tempted above what I can handle, (1 Cor 10:13), I know the occasion with the ark will never arrive.

 

[Hopeful]

But as he rightly says honor, prayer, devotion, veneration are not worship not idolatry no god is involved, no idolatry, worship requires intent
Thanks

Who "he"?

 

[Hopeful]

No but to what it represents
Are we allowed to have a crucifix?

Have?
To what end?

 

[donadams]

I would not spit on someone else's property.
As God promised I will never be tempted above what I can handle, (1 Cor 10:13), I know the occasion with the ark will never arrive.

Mary is the ark and temple of the new covenant the mystical city of God!

 

[donadams]

Who "he"?

Wondering

 

[donadams]

Have?
To what end?

Fruits of repentance
Christian meditation of the life death and passion of our savior

 

[Aussie Mark]

Come out and say it- I won't be offended. Too many conversations!

I am still waiting on you pointing out where in the Bible that you claim that Jesus was not crucified on a cross.

Your handle is FactsPlease and yet when asked for just that you have gone very very quiet.

 

[GodsGrace]

Love, regard, obedience, honor, deference.
Things I would never give to stone or wood artifices.

Hopeful,
NOBODY would honor or have deference (respect) for a piece of wood unless they were an idolatrar and not of the Christian type! I mean a real one, living in the forest somewhere - would a civilized person honor a piece of wood?
Are you getting a little carried away?
You practically told me I idolize the cross around my neck.
I also carry a picture of my far away son and his family in my wallet.
Is that idolatry too?

 

[Hopeful]

Mary is the ark and temple of the new covenant the mystical city of God!

catholic doctrine...only.
Everyone in Christ is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
It is written..."What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." (1 Cor 19:20)

 

[Hopeful]

Wondering

Thanks.

 

[Hopeful]

Fruits of repentance

You carry an idol as a fruit of turning from idols?
Sounds counter productive to repentance.

Christian meditation of the life death and passion of our savior

I can meditate on and manifest the life and death of the Savior without "props".

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful,
NOBODY would honor or have deference (respect) for a piece of wood unless they were an idolatrar and not of the Christian type!

Exactly.

I mean a real one, living in the forest somewhere - would a civilized person honor a piece of wood?

It seems many do.

Are you getting a little carried away?
You practically told me I idolize the cross around my neck.

"Thou that abhorest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?" (Rom 2:22)
Do you hate "idols"?
If you threw away your...metal, would it offend the real God?

I also carry a picture of my far away son and his family in my wallet.
Is that idolatry too?

Would you hurt someone in order to keep it with you?

 

[GodsGrace]

Exactly.

It seems many do.

"Thou that abhorest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?" (Rom 2:22)
Do you hate "idols"?
If you threw away your...metal, would it offend the real God?

Yes.
It would be like the spitting tirade you had going on with another member.
It REPRESENTS God.

Maybe you have trouble understanding the difference between representation and idolatry?

Would you hurt someone in order to keep it with you?

No. Again, you show a misunderstanding.

Why was the Christian world horrified at that artist, some years ago, that placed a crucifix in a bottle of urine?

Were we wrong to be distressed at such treatment of a representation of our Lord?

 

[Hopeful]

Yes.
It would be like the spitting tirade you had going on with another member.
It REPRESENTS God.

Nothing but our behavior can "represent God".
You have turned it into an idol.

Maybe you have trouble understanding the difference between representation and idolatry?
No. Again, you show a misunderstanding.
Why was the Christian world horrified at that artist, some years ago, that placed a crucifix in a bottle of urine?

Because they are non-Christian-idolaters.

Were we wrong to be distressed at such treatment of a representation of our Lord?

It was a piece of wood.
"Thou that abhorest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?" (Rom 2:22)
If it is sacrilege, it is an idol.

 

[GodsGrace]

Nothing but our behavior can "represent God".
You have turned it into an idol.

Because they are non-Christian-idolaters.

It was a piece of wood.
"Thou that abhorest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?" (Rom 2:22)
If it is sacrilege, it is an idol.

OK Hopeful, you know me - I'm not going to debate this for pages.
However, you did NOT answer my question to you.
Here it is again:

Why was the Christian world horrified at that artist, some years ago, that placed a crucifix in a bottle of urine?

You THINK you answered by saying that they were non-Christian idolaters.
Well, of course the artist is an atheist. That's my whole point - a Christian NEVER would have done this.
Is it because that Christian idolized the wooden crucifix?

My question was WHY WAS THE CHRISTIAN WORLD HORRIFIED AT THAT ARTIST'S ART?

Please reply.

 

[Hopeful]

OK Hopeful, you know me - I'm not going to debate this for pages.
However, you did NOT answer my question to you.
Here it is again:

Why was the Christian world horrified at that artist, some years ago, that placed a crucifix in a bottle of urine?

You THINK you answered by saying that they were non-Christian idolaters.
Well, of course the artist is an atheist. That's my whole point - a Christian NEVER would have done this.
Is it because that Christian idolized the wooden crucifix?

My question was WHY WAS THE CHRISTIAN WORLD HORRIFIED AT THAT ARTIST'S ART?

Please reply.

The Christian world wasn't horrified, the idolaters were horrified.
The Christians saw some guy use wood and paint to try and get a rise out of men.

Though that abhorest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
If one really hates idols, there can be no sacrilege.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Christian world wasn't horrified, the idolaters were horrified.
The Christians saw some guy use wood and paint to try and get a rise out of men.

Though that abhorest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
If one really hates idols, there can be no sacrilege.

I was attending a Nazarene church at the time and I remember that it's all we talked about between ourselves and the pastor did mention it.

If you can accept that piece of art with no problem, it means you're willing to accept anything. Including, maybe, using Jesus as a curse word --- or else it means we're idolizing His name. According to you.

That would be the natural end result.
Anything goes so as to disprove idolatry.

Including: Spitting on crucifixes, burning them, tearing up pictures of Jesus, etc.

Let's create some respect for our Christian faith,
Instead of worrying about idolatry which no one practices.

 

[jasonc]

So I can pray to my dad and grandad and If I see visions of them daily .

I can build a shrine to them and kneel on a bench of their image and that's not worship ?

Or spouse ,because no pope ,father is gonna know a spouse better then me .

Now let it be known I can sense spirits and have seen them in the daylight .

Sometimes as lights ,something pushing ,voices .a few times horrible images .

Also persons that are plain .the hallstrom house has a couple there

 

[Hopeful]

I was attending a Nazarene church at the time and I remember that it's all we talked about between ourselves and the pastor did mention it.

If you can accept that piece of art with no problem, it means you're willing to accept anything. Including, maybe, using Jesus as a curse word --- or else it means we're idolizing His name. According to you.

When you kneel to something, and fight to protect that right, it is idolatry.
Interesting comment about the name of the Lord, though.
I wonder if Paul ever considered that when he wrote Rom 6:1..."What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"
And in Rom 3:8..."And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just."
One doesn't need to go around cursing, defacing pictures, or wooden objects to prove one is NOT an idolater.
Simply refrain from worshipping anything but God and His Son.

That would be the natural end result.
Anything goes so as to disprove idolatry.
Including: Spitting on crucifixes, burning them, tearing up pictures of Jesus, etc.

Kind of deranged, huh?

Let's create some respect for our Christian faith,
Instead of worrying about idolatry which no one practices.

No one?

 

[GodsGrace]

When you kneel to something, and fight to protect that right, it is idolatry.
Interesting comment about the name of the Lord, though.
I wonder if Paul ever considered that when he wrote Rom 6:1..."What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"
And in Rom 3:8..."And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just."
One doesn't need to go around cursing, defacing pictures, or wooden objects to prove one is NOT an idolater.
Simply refrain from worshipping anything but God and His Son.

Kind of deranged, huh?

No one?

I don't know anyone who worships a statue, for instance.

Maybe worshipping a THING is just too foreign for me to even consider.

At least for Christians.