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Sure...If you see stone and wood "images" as just stone and wood, you can spit on them just as if they are the ground they come from.Care to explain:
Judas threw the coins on the floor of the temple.Matt 27:3-10 statuary?
The word used in Zech 11:13 is "potter", not "pottery".Zechariah 11:13
And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the statuary, a handsome price, that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast them into the house of the Lord to the statuary.
KJV call it pottery
As you started with an erroneous translation, your POV is corrupted from its start.What statues? Graven images?
Where were the cherubims over-shadowing the mercy seat EVER worshipped or even prayed to?Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant exod 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded, graven or worshiped as a god then these images are forbidden such as the golden calf!
Bowing down to anything, is idolatry.Bowing down or posture does not equal worship or adoration!
True.Worship requires intent!
You must have the intent to worship God properly!
You are adding men's pollution to worship.Worship requires intent, offering of sacrifice, a ordained priesthood, adoration, reparation, thanksgiving, and petition!
Can you spit on your bed without a guilty conscience?Bowing or posture does not equal worship! Kneeling next to your bed to pray is that worshiping your bed?
What are you "obeying" when you bow to a Mary or Peter statue?Genesis 23:12
And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land.
Genesis 42:6
And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.
Bowing a sign of obedience!
You are going to too great a lengths to defend idolatry.Genesis 43:28
And they answered, Thy servant our father is in good health, he is yet alive. And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.
1 Kings 1:53
So king Solomon sent, and they brought him down from the altar. And he came and bowed himself to king Solomon: and Solomon said unto him, Go to thine house.
1 Kings 2:19
Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her
If you kneel next to your bed to say your prayers at night are you worshiping your bed? No!
I have been a catholic all my life and I’m 60 and I have never worshiped Mary or the saints or a statute!
Reverence, veneration, love and devotion yes! Worship no!
Imitation of the the life and virtues of the saints! Yes a husband and father should imitate Saint Joseph, his life of godliness and virtue, patience and obedience and faithfulness! The family should imitate the holy family of Nazareth!
the icon-o-clast heresy was condemned by the holy apostles in the authority of Christ in the seventh century at the second council of Nicea!
Yikes.Veneration isn't worship ? Ok
Praying to and deducating ones lips and life and purpose to any one but God isn't idolatry.
Says the Catholic.
We don’t pray to but God who can hear and answer our prayersVeneration isn't worship ? Ok
Praying to and deducating ones lips and life and purpose to any one but God isn't idolatry.
Says the Catholic.
Yes and your disrespect for what the images represent, they themselves are just wood or stone and have no intrinsic value but they represent Christ, Mary, and the saints and you are disrespecting God who is the author of all good and Christ who is the source of all grace and virture, on the other hand to praise, love, venerate Mary and the saints to glorify Christ and God.Sure...If you see stone and wood "images" as just stone and wood, you can spit on them just as if they are the ground they come from.
If spitting on "stone and wood" offends our conscience, it would be sacrilege...a sin.
And it would manifest that the image was something more than just stone or wood.
Judas threw the coins on the floor of the temple.
The word used in Zech 11:13 is "potter", not "pottery".
As you started with an erroneous translation, your POV is corrupted from its start.
Where were the cherubims over-shadowing the mercy seat EVER worshipped or even prayed to?
I don't think the old Israelites ever worshipped the furniture.
Num. 21:9's making of the serpent of brass was commanded by God after He sent fiery serpents among the rebellious Israelites. They were not worshipped or prayed to,
John 3:14?
Jesus was the manifestation of an OT presage.
He was indeed worthy of worship, but brass artifices made by men's hands are not.
Neither are plaster, stone, or wood images.
Spit away !
Bowing down to anything, is idolatry.
True.
You are adding men's pollution to worship.
Why does man need sacrifice, priests, or anything else to glorify God?
Can you spit on your bed without a guilty conscience?
That is the difference between idolatry and anything else.
What are you "obeying" when you bow to a Mary or Peter statue?
You are going to too great a lengths to defend idolatry.
When I became a real Christian, one of the first thing I did was throw my rosary in the dumpster.
Was that a sin?
They are wood and stone, and represent nothing but wood and stone.Yes and your disrespect for what the images represent, they themselves are just wood or stone and have no intrinsic value but they represent Christ, Mary, and the saints and you are disrespecting God who is the author of all good and Christ who is the source of all grace and virture, on the other hand to praise, love, venerate Mary and the saints to glorify Christ and God.
Because He may be in the "brother".Why does Jesus say; “whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren, that you do unto me”?
Because He is in the persecuted.Or Saul Saul why art thou persecuting me?
Never, and correct.Vos the new covenant church is the communion of saints, we are united with Christ. When was an image of Mary and the saints ever worshipped or prayed to? Only God may lawfully worshiped and we pray to God.
Huh?You can praise and glorify God but not worship,
Yes, but statues?God must be worshipped in spirit and in truth see below.
As an ex-catholic, I held it in an idolatrous fashion.Why give up the rosary?
Of course I do, but I don't need wood and stone in order to do so.You don’t think you need to meditate “mental prayer” on the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ? Thanks
This is true.Visit St Peter Basilica in Rome and see the thousands that flow through and kiss the foot of the bronze statue of Peter.
One foot has been worn away over the centuries from being kissed. That is idolatory.
If God created the Ark or instructed men to create the Ark to a specific design then no they are not.This is true.
But it's not the CC that tells them to do this.
I wanted to ask you and donadams if the cherubim on the Ark would be considered graven images.
Thanks.
Who are the saints?Yes and your disrespect for what the images represent, they themselves are just wood or stone and have no intrinsic value but they represent Christ, Mary, and the saints and you are disrespecting God who is the author of all good and Christ who is the source of all grace and virture, on the other hand to praise, love, venerate Mary and the saints to glorify Christ and God.
Why does Jesus say; “whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren, that you do unto me”? Or Saul Saul why art thou persecuting me? Vos the new covenant church is the communion of saints, we are united with Christ. When was an image of Mary and the saints ever worshipped or prayed too? Only God may lawfully worshiped and we pray to God.
You can praise and glorify God but not worship, God must be worshipped in spirit and in truth see below. Why give up the rosary? You don’t think you need to meditate “mental prayer” on the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ? Thanks
Like the Cross?Graven images must be the first commandment
Why is it extremely important for the first commandment to include ex 20:2-6?
Why should the ban on graven images be in the first commandment?
Because the first commandment deals with the true God and false gods, graven images are idols and worshipped as god, idolatry, so it must be included in the first commandments context.
Thanks
May it never be!Who are the saints?
Where in the Bible does it support the glorification of individuals and then assigning them to watch over certain people e.g. St Christopher the Patron Saint of Travellers? Those people who are lionised to much by the Catholic Church I suspect would have been humble in their Christian service and would actually be appalled if they only knew.
The term saints in the NT refers to all Christians, not a select group of past individuals who have been canonised by the Catholic Church.
Does this mean that wondering jasonc and myself might get statues??wondering: as a CF Ambassador you could end up being the Patron Saint of Web Forums
Why do the witnesses dislike the cross so much?Like the Cross?
Hi FactsIt is used as a idol- plain and simple!
What is an idol?It is used as a idol- plain and simple!
Why- when the Bible says he wasn't executed on it?What is an idol?
Is it something we worship?
Do we worship the cross or use it to remember an event?
I wear a cross around my neck. Am I worshipping it?
Idols were the downfall of the ancient peoples.Graven images must be the first commandment
Why is it extremely important for the first commandment to include ex 20:2-6?
Why should the ban on graven images be in the first commandment?
Because the first commandment deals with the true God and false gods, graven images are idols and worshipped as god, idolatry, so it must be included in the first commandments context.
Thanks
Could you please explain why the difference is so important AND please post the verse that says a stake.Why- when the Bible says he wasn't executed on it?
I agree with your reply.If God created the Ark or instructed men to create the Ark to a specific design then no they are not.
If someone then worshipped one of those cherubim then they have themselves created a graven image. It would always be man's response to any object/art/painting etc that is at the heart.
After all, isn't that what the ten commandments set out to do, guide and control our sinful heart?