[_ Old Earth _] The Flood

[Wertbag]

A local flood fixes all of the things that makes the story impossible. Number of animals, size of boat, feed/water/space, distribution of the species, lack of geological evidence etc. Of course local flooding happens many times a year in almost every country in the world, so wouldn't be quite so dramatic. The main problem Christians have with a local flood is that it doesn't require any supernatural input to make it happen.

Of course it rained before the flood, if not it would have been extinction of all life on earth.

A vapour canopy isn't even Biblically supported either, there is a brief mention of dividing the waters but it could easily mean rain or clouds rather than the whole suspended water that some get from such a small phrase. The canopy has physically problems of many kinds, for example if its too thick it blocks sunlight and all life on earth dies. If its thin then it wasn't the source of the vast amounts of water required and would have been more like an eternal cloudy day, which would have stuffed up life as well.

 

[jwu]

In fact Psalm 104 is quite clear that there were mountains before the flood (and otherwise those references to mountains in the flood account itself wouldn't make much sense either).

Psalm 104, KJV:

Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.
10 He sendeth the springs into the valleys, which run among the hills.
11 They give drink to every beast of the field: the wild asses quench their thirst.
12 By them shall the fowls of the heaven have their habitation, which sing among the branches.
13 He watereth the hills from his chambers: the earth is satisfied with the fruit of thy works.
14 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.
16 The trees of the LORD are full of sap; the cedars of Lebanon, which he hath planted;
17 Where the birds make their nests: as for the stork, the fir trees are her house.
18 The high hills are a refuge for the wild goats; and the rocks for the conies.
19 He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down.
20 Thou makest darkness, and it is night: wherein all the beasts of the forest do creep forth.
21 The young lions roar after their prey, and seek their meat from God.
22 The sun ariseth, they gather themselves together, and lay them down in their dens.
23 Man goeth forth unto his work and to his labour until the evening.
24 O LORD, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches.
25 So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts.
26 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.
27 These wait all upon thee; that thou mayest give them their meat in due season.
28 That thou givest them they gather: thou openest thine hand, they are filled with good.
29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
31 The glory of the LORD shall endure for ever: the LORD shall rejoice in his works.
32 He looketh on the earth, and it trembleth: he toucheth the hills, and they smoke.
33 I will sing unto the LORD as long as I live: I will sing praise to my God while I have my being.
34 My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD.
35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.

jwu

 

[sheseala]

Non volcanic mountains raise only 2 inches per year. So if the mountains were raised after the flood, there would be either tons of volcanism or tons of earthquakes.

 

[rmills]

Tua, it's everything to do with fear, God causes all that science explains. God has allowed us to understand the world we live in, but this is not a topic for this forum. Let's get back to the flood. 8-)

Fine...where did the water come from and where did it go?

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... waters.asp

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... tersgo.asp

 

[Asimov]

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... waters.asp

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... tersgo.asp

We've already established the fact that mountains did exist before the flood, rmills. We also know that mountain ranges are not all the same ages, so there is a problem there too.

 

[jwu]

From that AiG article:

Psalm 104 suggests an answer. After the waters covered the mountains (verse 6), God rebuked them and they fled (verse 7); the mountains rose, the valleys sank down (verse 8) and God set a boundary so that they will never again cover the earth (verse 9)[1]. They are the same waters!

My first language isn't English, but i have no idea how this can be interpreted to say that it's the mountains which rise...

Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

In verse 8 "the mountains" clearly are a direct object, not the subject. It's not the mountains that "go up", but the waters.

jwu

 

[Blazin Bones]

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... waters.asp

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... tersgo.asp

We've already established the fact that mountains did exist before the flood, rmills. We also know that mountain ranges are not all the same ages, so there is a problem there too.

Yes, but read the articles, that's not all they are saying.

 

[mh13]

Here are some good notes from "The Defender's Study Bible" by Dr. Henry Morris. This helps give a biblical perspective on how the flood occured

Genesis 2:5
"the primeval hydrological cycle was subterranean rather than atmospheric. The absence of rain was a consequence of the water vapor above the firmament and the uniform temperature which it maintained over the earth. Rain today is dependant upon the global circulation of the atmosphere, transporting water evaporated from the ocean inland to condense and precipitate on the lands. This circulation is driven by worldwide temperature differences in the atmosphere and would be impossible to attain with the global warmth sustained by the canopy."

Genesis 2:6 mist "...it refers merely to the local daily cycle of evaporation and condensation occassioned by the day/night temperature cycle"

Genesis 7:11 fountains of the great deep "...The antedilluvian hydrologic cycle was apparently controlled by a system of of subterranean pressurized resivours and conduits, but these fountains were cleaved up in one day, releasing tremendous quantities of waterand magma to the earths surface and dust and gas into the atmosphere. The resulting combination of atmospheric turbulence and dust nuclei of condensation was probably the immediate cause of the precipitation of the vapor canopy..."

Genesis 8:1 "As a result of the water subsiding, the phenomena described in Psalm 104:6-9 began to take place. The earth's crust collapsed deep into the previous subterranean reservior chambers, forming the present ocean basins..."

 

[sheseala]

What kept the pressurized "waterways" from coming to the surface and relieving the pressure before the flood?

What kept the water and magma release from cooking the planet?

If the oceans are collapsed basins formed after the water was released, wouldn't the waves toos the boat way too much?

How come there is not any evindense of this?

 

[Asimov]

What kept the pressurized "waterways" from coming to the surface and relieving the pressure before the flood?

God sat on them.

What kept the water and magma release from cooking the planet?

Jesus put it on a slow burn.

If the oceans are collapsed basins formed after the water was released, wouldn't the waves toos the boat way too much?

The Holy Spirit held onto it.

How come there is not any evindense of this?

The host of Angels cleaned it all up afterwards.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Tua, I believe you have already been shown that you don't have all the answers. I wouldn't think this would be a good time to be cocky.

Not trying to be a jerk...

BL

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

BL when someone claims something to have happened but has no evidence to back it up, mockery at the very least give some merit ot the discussion.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Vorlon, BL wans't mocking Tua, he was making an observation. 8-)

 

[Asimov]

Tua, I believe you have already been shown that you don't have all the answers. I wouldn't think this would be a good time to be cocky.

Not trying to be a jerk...

BL

So you think that you have license now to criticize everything I say, simply because I lost a debate, BL?

I don't claim to have all the answer, I never did.

 

[Guest]

8-) Hi' there everyone! How's it going without me?