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The Folly of the Mass

D46 said:
This doesn't make sense to me at all. "Jesus' normal APPEARANCE is hidden under the APPEARANCE of bread and wine." According to Trent...

THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST: "If anyone denies that in the sacrament of the most Holy Eucharist are contained truly, really and substantially the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ, but says that He is in it only as in a sign, or figure or force, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, Canon 1).
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The bread and wine have transformed into the essence of Jesus Christ's entire self, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity... The outward appearance, to any scientific study, would indicate the Eucharistic bread and wine as ordinary bread and wine. However, there is a substantial change that remains hidden to the eye. That is why this is called the sacrament of faith and why in John 6, Jesus said that only those whom the Father would draw to Himself would believe. I, Thessalonian, and Trent are saying the same thing.

Regards
 
Solo said:
I know why the Roman Catholic Church only serves a wafer, but denies the wine to the laity. A great cost savings measure. I wonder how they get by without serving the wine, when they preach that the body and blood of Jesus is actual in the Eucharist.
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Your information about Catholicism is very mistaken.

The Church serves the Eucharist to the laity in either species, consecrated wine or bread.

Either form is all that is needed, because they are both fully blood and body.
 
jgb321 said:
Jesus said, "this is my Body" and we believe it


He also said He was a door, but you don't believe that, do you. And when He said cut your hand off or pluck your eye out, you don't believe Him them. Be honest, you pick and choose what you want.
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That's hyperbole. John 6 is not hyperbole, it is repeated over and over and when the disciples left Jesus because of what He said, He made no correction to it.
 
jgb321 said:
Says who? If you read John 6 all the way thru, you can't help but see that Jesus is deliberately speaking metaphorically.
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Actually, I was thinking otherwise...

To metaphorically request someone eat your flesh, in the bible, is to request somone to persecute or harm you!

"When the wicked, [even] mine enemies and my foes, came upon me to eat up my flesh, they stumbled and fell." Psalm 27:2

For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up [like] the lifting up of smoke. Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother. And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm: Is 9:18-20

Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron. Micah 3:3


Thus, according to you, Jesus said:

"Whoever persecutes, assaults, and destroys me will have eternal life"

Sorry, that makes no sense to me...

This just goes to show how carefully you "researched" the Eucharist or the Scriptures that pertain to it.

Regards
 
To metaphorically request someone eat your flesh, in the bible, is to request somone to persecute or harm you!
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He was harmed, vicariously for EVERYBODY!

Mic. 3:3 and Is. 9:18-20 was partly fulfilled LITERALLY in 70AD, when Jewish women had to eat their own children, in order to survive. In the Tribulation (which I know you don't hold to), this will once again re-occur, and let us not forget the Holocaust and other "Jewish" atrocities.

Ps. 27:2, written by David, is metaphorical, for nobody ever ate his body. The following note, from John Macarthur's study Bible, is rather helpful: "An allusion to the psalmist's enemies like vicious beasts (Pss. 7:2; 14:4; 17:12; Job 19:22; Jer. 30:16; 50:7.) This wording was also employed to describe slander and defamation (cf. a close Aram. parallel in Dan. 3:8; 6:24.)
 
jgb321 said:
He was harmed, vicariously for EVERYBODY!
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Again,

"Whoever persecutes, assaults, and destroys me will have eternal life"

So NOW, your incredible logic is defending the idea that ALL men are going to have eternal life? :-?

Are you sure you are defending the position above?

Well, that makes arguing religion a moot point...

Regards
 
He was wanting people to be identified with Him and His vicious death.
 
jgb321 said:
He was wanting people to be identified with Him and His vicious death.
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Can you answer my question?

Is Jesus saying "Whoever persecutes, assaults, and destroys me will have eternal life"?

Because that is what the Jews understand as the metaphorical eating of one's flesh...

Your response doesn't address my question. Clearly, Jesus didn't mean that people were to assault and persecute Him before having eternal life, no matter how much you dance around the question... Thus, Jesus could not have meant metaphorically to eat Him. Only someone in denial that they are wrong will continue to put such a nonsense argument forward...

Regards
 
jgb321 said:
I think you know what I am saying.
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Are you saying that Jesus intended that men must first persecute Jesus before entering into eternal life?

Or are you saying that the people of John 6 left Christ because they thought Jesus meant that one must literally eat His carnal flesh, not understanding that He would offer Himself in the form of bread at the Last Supper?

Regards
 
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