The Four Horsemen

[JudaicChristian]

Here is a clue for everyone. The beast with the false Christians are the strongest, and the true Elect are a minority. And that is why Yahshua must rescue them.

Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 14:12
This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Do you think that the world religion created and propagated by the beast, will be destroyed before the beast Himself will be destroyed? If so, then every human that has the mark must be destroyed before Jesus returns on the white Horse. Do you have scripture?

Coop

Finally you ask a good question. Islam and Orthodox Judaism will be destroyed before the second coming. After the two witnesses there will be a false Christian religion with that [beast/nation,] and there will be the true Christians [The Elect.] It is the false Christians, with that false prophet that are destroyed by Christ coming. I will leave it up to everyone here to figure out which one is which. The truth is offencive, and I do not feel like getting kicked off this message board today. Good luck.

I once thought the world revolved around myself as well.When I realized it didnt I started understanding prophecy much better.

 

[lecoop]

Do you think that the world religion created and propagated by the beast, will be destroyed before the beast Himself will be destroyed? If so, then every human that has the mark must be destroyed before Jesus returns on the white Horse. Do you have scripture?

Coop

Finally you ask a good question. Islam and Orthodox Judaism will be destroyed before the second coming. After the two witnesses there will be a false Christian religion with that [beast/nation,] and there will be the true Christians [The Elect.] It is the false Christians, with that false prophet that are destroyed by Christ coming. I will leave it up to everyone here to figure out which one is which. The truth is offencive, and I do not feel like getting kicked off this message board today. Good luck.

What do you mean by "false Christians?" Do you mean the false prophet that claims he is Christ, and has miracles of fire to prove it, and then all those that are deceived by him? I guess one could call them "false christians," but the truth is, they will be Muslims. Deceived Muslims. Islam will become the world religion, forced upon people by the mark of the beast. Believe it, for it is the truth. What did John say about antichrist? He said it would be those that deny the Father AND the SON! This was a perfect description of Islam.

Coop

 

[Andrew]

I once thought the world revolved around myself as well.When I realized it didnt I started understanding prophecy much better.

How much do you want to bet that MOST Christians will think the two witnesses are stuck on themselves and labeled, "self-proclaimed", until they have performed enough "miracles" to verify their authenticity?
I say they will be rejected and hated by Christians as much as unbelievers because of ignorance. Too many Christians think that to be Christ like is to be "Nice". I think a lot of Christians would have stood aghast when Jesus entered the temple and turned the tables over, He was on an all out rampaging temper tantrum, the Lion came out that day in the Lamb of God.
A falling away from the faith will occur, luke-warm christians who have no true faith and believe God is NEVER capable of allowing harm to come upon those He loves.
Remember when Jesus told Peter his fate and Peter pointed to John and said, "Lord, what about him?" And Jesus replied, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and compassion on whom I have compassion."
The words of the scroll are closed up and sealed until the time of the end, and will be revealed to whom He has revealed them to; all prophetic understanding is given to His servants the prophets, and rejected by people who decide they don't like the messenger, and so they fail to hear the message.
"What He opens, no one can shut; and what He shuts, no one can open."
Educated guesses is what's happening, but guesses nonetheless.
"Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." Rev. 14:13 Keep guessing.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

What do you mean by "false Christians?" Do you mean the false prophet that claims he is Christ, and has miracles of fire to prove it, and then all those that are deceived by him? I guess one could call them "false christians," but the truth is, they will be Muslims. Deceived Muslims. Islam will become the world religion, forced upon people by the mark of the beast. Believe it, for it is the truth. What did John say about antichrist? He said it would be those that deny the Father AND the SON! This was a perfect description of Islam.

Coop

Come on Coop
John said the antichrist says Christ has not come in the flesh.He denies Jesus is the Christ.
The koran says that Jesus is indeed the Messiah(Christ).
It is the jewish teachers of judaism that says the messiah(Christ)hasnt come and deny that Jesus is the Christ.

As for the church .It will still be here after the beast is slain.It is at that time that the saints inherit the land promised to them.The land where the beast lives today.

 

[lecoop]

What do you mean by "false Christians?" Do you mean the false prophet that claims he is Christ, and has miracles of fire to prove it, and then all those that are deceived by him? I guess one could call them "false christians," but the truth is, they will be Muslims. Deceived Muslims. Islam will become the world religion, forced upon people by the mark of the beast. Believe it, for it is the truth. What did John say about antichrist? He said it would be those that deny the Father AND the SON! This was a perfect description of Islam.

Coop

Come on Coop
John said the antichrist says Christ has not come in the flesh.He denies Jesus is the Christ.
The koran says that Jesus is indeed the Messiah(Christ).
It is the jewish teachers of judaism that says the messiah(Christ)hasnt come and deny that Jesus is the Christ.

As for the church .It will still be here after the beast is slain.It is at that time that the saints inherit the land promised to them.The land where the beast lives today.

There is no doubt that Muslims are waiting for a Messiah. It it even written in the News: Here is one headline:

"Iranian President Mahmoud's Ahmadinejad's mystical pre-occupation with the coming of a Shiite Islamic messiah figure – the Mahdi – is raising concerns that a nuclear-armed Islamic Republic could trigger the kind of global conflagration he envisions will set the stage for the end of the world. "
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48225

What DO the Muslims say? Of course, that Jesus was NOT God come in the flesh. They DENY the SON. The Word says "The only begotton Son," but Muslims say "it is very dangerous to say that God has a Son," for God does not have sons.

As for the church, "we shall be saved from wrath through Him." We are told to "wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come." "God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation;" why then are you so insistant to go THROUGH God's wrath? Do you not realize that God will give you a choice? If you WANT to go through His wrath, He will accomidate you, and you will not even see His appearing, as He comes for the church. Then you will face not only His wrath, but the wrath of Satan as well. Why would you choose this? And you totally overlooked John 14. Jesus did not build homes for us in vein; homes we will never see. He will come and get us, and takes us there.

Coop

 

[Faithful4Christ]

Muslims DO NOT believe Jesus is the Son of God or the Messiah (Or so do the Muslims I have learned about). They believe he is nothing more than a prophet.. Muhammad is worshipped more than Jesus. It seems logical that the islamic religion would be used to unite and the Christian antichrist will be their savior, or so they think. Who knows.. but I do think that is a possibility.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Muslims DO NOT believe Jesus is the Son of God or the Messiah (Or so do the Muslims I have learned about). They believe he is nothing more than a prophet.. Muhammad is worshipped more than Jesus. It seems logical that the islamic religion would be used to unite and the Christian antichrist will be their savior, or so they think. Who knows.. but I do think that is a possibility.

Your wrong.
Muslims believe the koran and the koran says Jesus is the messiah(Christ).
They also believe Jesus will return.

The only people that say the messiah hasnt come are those of Judaism.
The same people who were first antichrist are antichrist even today.

 

[lecoop]

Muslims DO NOT believe Jesus is the Son of God or the Messiah (Or so do the Muslims I have learned about). They believe he is nothing more than a prophet.. Muhammad is worshipped more than Jesus. It seems logical that the islamic religion would be used to unite and the Christian antichrist will be their savior, or so they think. Who knows.. but I do think that is a possibility.

Your wrong.
Muslims believe the koran and the koran says Jesus is the messiah(Christ).
They also believe Jesus will return.

The only people that say the messiah hasnt come are those of Judaism.
The same people who were first antichrist are antichrist even today.

Shilohsfoal,

They do NOT KNOW what "Messiah" means! They CERTAINLY do not believe Jesus was the SON of God. They CERTAINLY do not believe that Jesus SAID HE was God. They CERTAINLY do not believe Jesus died and rose again. Their religon IS the antichrist religion.

Coop

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Shilohsfoal,

They do NOT KNOW what "Messiah" means! They CERTAINLY do not believe Jesus was the SON of God. They CERTAINLY do not believe that Jesus SAID HE was God. They CERTAINLY do not believe Jesus died and rose again. Their religon IS the antichrist religion.

Coop

But thats not what John said the antichrist says.
John said the antichrist says that Christ has not come in the flesh.

The antichrist says Christ has not come yet.
The antichrist says that Jesus is not the Christ.

John said there were many antichrists 2000 years ago and I got news for you,there were not one muslim alive 2000 years ago.The same antichrist that lived 2000 years ago is still the same antichrist today and you act like you dont know who that is.Are you afraid of offending the antichrist or what?

 

[lecoop]

Shilohsfoal,

They do NOT KNOW what "Messiah" means! They CERTAINLY do not believe Jesus was the SON of God. They CERTAINLY do not believe that Jesus SAID HE was God. They CERTAINLY do not believe Jesus died and rose again. Their religon IS the antichrist religion.

Coop

But thats not what John said the antichrist says.
John said the antichrist says that Christ has not come in the flesh.

The antichrist says Christ has not come yet.
The antichrist says that Jesus is not the Christ.

John said there were many antichrists 2000 years ago and I got news for you,there were not one muslim alive 2000 years ago.The same antichrist that lived 2000 years ago is still the same antichrist today and you act like you dont know who that is.Are you afraid of offending the antichrist or what?

You are confusing the spirit of antichrist with THE Antichrist. Of course there have been spirits (demons) (and Satan Himself) against Jesus since He came. But there is ONE antichrist coming.

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Young's Literal Translation
2:18 Little youths, it is the last hour; and even as ye heard that the antichrist doth come, even now antichrists have become many -- whence we know that it is the last hour;



King James Version
2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


American Standard Version
2:22 Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, even he that denieth the Father and the Son.


Bible in Basic English
2:22 Who is false but he who says that Jesus is not the Christ? He is the Antichrist who has no belief in the Father or the Son.


Darby's English Translation
2:22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is the antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.


Douay Rheims
2:22 Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son.


Noah Webster Bible
2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


Weymouth New Testament
2:22 Who is a liar compared with him who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He who disowns the Father and the Son is the anti-Christ.


World English Bible
2:22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.


Young's Literal Translation
2:22 Who is the liar, except he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? this one is the antichrist who is denying the Father and the Son;

What is John saying here? He is giving us a clearly definition of who is antichrist: Anyone that denies the Father AND The SON.

Have you EVER heard a Muslim agree that the FAther had a son? No! The Koran says "“It is not for God to take a son unto Him.†(Jesus speaking in the Koran)

“Jesus was no more than a mortal whom Allah favored and made an example to the Israelites. They are unbelievers who say God is Messiah, Mary’s son.†(Sura 43:59)

"Sura 4:171: “O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity†:desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son."

Sura 112:1-4 “Proclaim, 'He is the One and only GOD. The Absolute GOD. Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten. None equals Him.â€

Sura 25:2-3 “He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: no son has He begotten..."

Sura 19:88-92 They say: “(God) Most Gracious has begotten a son!†Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, That they should invoke a son for (God) Most Gracious. For it is not consonant with the majesty of (God) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.â€

Sura 5:17-18: “In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. "

“The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!†(Sura 9:30)

"Sura 10:68-70 They say: “God hath begotten a son!†“Those who invent a lie against God will never prosper.â€

Neither do they beleive Jesus died on the cross:

Sura 4:157 (Asad) and their boast, "Behold, we have slain the Christ Jesus, son of Mary, [who claimed to be] an apostle of God!" However, they did not slay him, and neither did they crucify him, but it only seemed to them [as if it had been] so;

It should be clear that Muslims do NOT believe God had a son.

There is no entity today that fits "He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son," more than Islam. You can beleive it or not: but THE antichrist will rise to power using Islam.

Did you not notice that every one of the ancient empires in the great image of Daniel 2, are now Muslim nations?

Coop

 

[Shilohsfoal]

2:22 Who is the liar, except he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? this one is the antichrist who is denying the Father and the Son;


What is John saying in this one simple verse?
He is saying those who say that Jesus is not the Christ are antichrist.

Now let me make this perfectly clear.The koran states that Jesus is the Messiah and the muslims believe the koran.If you dont believe me ,ask an X muslim what a muslim believes.

Those who are of the judaism religion are those who are antichrist.
They openly deny Jesus as the messiah.They say all manner of evil against him.
The antichrist's capital is Jerusalem.Dont be so blind to the gospel of Jesus Christ.He will openly tell you who the children of Satan are.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


What is John saying here?
He is saying there were many antichrists in the world in his time.
There was not one muslim in the world at that time so who was it that denied Jesus was the Christ?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Did you not notice that every one of the ancient empires in the great image of Daniel 2, are now Muslim nations?

Coop

Did you not notice the little horn that dwells amoung the ten larger horns is diverse from the others?
Did you not notice that little horn subdued three of the larger horns?
Did you not notice, the little horn is the one that kills the saints?
When the host is given to that little horn,will you understand anything that is taking place before your face?

You keep pointing at those ten horns that shall make war with the lamb but why is it ,you dont pay any attention at all at that little horn?

 

[lecoop]

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


What is John saying here?
He is saying there were many antichrists in the world in his time.
There was not one muslim in the world at that time so who was it that denied Jesus was the Christ?

The same spirit that is behind Islam was alive and well back then.
He was deceiving people then as well as now.

Who was it then? Deceived people. So then and now, deceived people deny the SON. Now days, by FAR the biggest percentage of people that deny the SON are Muslims.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

Did you not notice that every one of the ancient empires in the great image of Daniel 2, are now Muslim nations?

Coop

Did you not notice the little horn that dwells amoung the ten larger horns is diverse from the others?
Did you not notice that little horn subdued three of the larger horns?
Did you not notice, the little horn is the one that kills the saints?
When the host is given to that little horn,will you understand anything that is taking place before your face?

You keep pointing at those ten horns that shall make war with the lamb but why is it ,you dont pay any attention at all at that little horn?

There are TWO "little horns." the "little horn" in chapter 8 is referring to Antiochus Epiphanes.

The Little horn of chapter 7 is the same character as Paul's "man of sin" and John's beast.
Where will he come from? Many think from Syria. What 3 nations will he overcome? I don't think anyone knows, but I believe it will SURELY be Muslim nations, for ALL nations that surround Israel are Muslim nations. I am NOT pointing at 10 horns. That is your imagination. Did you notice this?

Dan 2
43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

WHY will "they not cleave one to another?" Because wherever Muslims go, they are NOT CONTENT to dwell in peace; their goal is to FORCE MUSLIM law everywhere they go. Jesus will not destroy ancient Babylon; that kingdom disappeared a LONG time ago. Jesus will not destroy ancient Medo-Persia: that kingdom was destroyed by Alexander the Great. No, Jesus will destroy MODERN nations in the SAME geographic areas. By the way, these are ALL Muslim nations.

Dan, 7:
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Note that ALL THESE KINGS are living AT THE SAME TIME. These are KINGS or Presidents or leaders of PRESENT nations. Without a doubt, they are alive today. So these beasts only refer to the ancient kingdoms in so much as the modern nations dwell on the same geographical areas. They are ALL Muslim nations.

Coop

 

[Faithful4Christ]

Shilohsfoal, I'm sorry but Lecoop has given you more than enough evidence showing Muslims DO NOT believe Jesus was the son of God or that Jesus was the Messiah. He even provided quotes right from the Koran itself. Hopefully you are now clear on this that Muslims deny Jesus as the Messiah as it is imperative to know in this discussion.

 

[Sinthesis]

There is no entity today that fits "He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son," more than Islam. You can beleive it or not: but THE antichrist will rise to power using Islam.

Did you not notice that every one of the ancient empires in the great image of Daniel 2, are now Muslim nations?

Coop

It depends on how you interpret Daniel 2. Greece, Rome(Italy) and Jerusalem(Israel) are not Muslim states. That said; Islam is an antichrist system.

 

[lecoop]

There is no entity today that fits "He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son," more than Islam. You can beleive it or not: but THE antichrist will rise to power using Islam.

Did you not notice that every one of the ancient empires in the great image of Daniel 2, are now Muslim nations?

Coop

It depends on how you interpret Daniel 2. Greece, Rome(Italy) and Jerusalem(Israel) are not Muslim states. That said; Islam is an antichrist system.

You are correct: I was speaking mostly of the Eastern leg of the great image, those parts of the Grecian Empire that are East of the Mediterranean. Jerusalem was only a part of the image, in so much as each of these empires in turn, had authority over her.

Coop

 

[Vic C.]

Hey, no one mentioned this verse!

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Four simple verses describe antichrist; no more, no less. :yes